World PVE

Distopia2 · August 2011

After reading an exchange in regard to focus between PVP and PVE content, how GW2 is handling world PVE came to mind, well the absense I've seen of this information anyway. Now I'm fully aware of DE's, what will you be doing when you're not taking part in one of these? What I mean is what will net you xp, aside from crawling dungeons, and playing an instanced single-player story experience? WIll it simply be an option of PVP or Mob grinding? Considering there are no traditional quests to take part in.

In short is the only meaningful option for leveling a character, the solo story stuff, DE's and PVP? Say I put a group together, what will be an incentive for us to run around looking for world PVE things to experience? Aside from running to where 100 players are zerging a DE?

I've not really seen much talk about this. The one thing I like about questing is that they usually lead you to interesting places. Of course it's nice to find it on your own as well, however when running with a group, I like the idea of each member picking up different quests sharing them and solving them.

Another nice questing aspect is meeting characters (npcs) off the beaten path who have interesting tasks regarding the area they're in. Will GW2 have this outside of the "Story" portion of the game? I know GW1 really didn't, in large part anyway.

Distopia2 · August 2011

I made a map to explain what I am saying.

Legend:
Red = DE
Green= dungeon
Orange= Story entrance
Yellow= mob grinding?

romanator0 · August 2011

Your map is inaccurate regarding the amount of DEs. A more accurate depiction would have the whole map outlined in red.

DEs complete replace traditional questing in Guild Wars 2. There are over 1500 Dynamic Events in Guild Wars 2 and it has be stated by the developers that they are designed so that something is always going on. They said that once the game goes live they will be changing the run times of DEs and adding new ones so that a zone should always feel like something different is going on.

BlahTeeb · August 2011

Originally posted by Distopia
After reading an exchange in regard to focus between PVP and PVE content, how GW2 is handling world PVE came to mind, well the absense I've seen of this information anyway. Now I'm fully aware of DE's, what will you be doing when you're not taking part in one of these? What I mean is what will net you xp, aside from crawling dungeons, and playing an instanced single-player story experience? WIll it simply be an option of PVP or Mob grinding? Considering there are no traditional quests to take part in.

In short is the only meaningful option for leveling a character, the solo story stuff, DE's and PVP? Say I put a group together, what will be an incentive for us to run around looking for world PVE things to experience? Aside from running to where 100 players are zerging a DE?

I've not really seen much talk about this. The one thing I like about questing is that they usually lead you to interesting places. Of course it's nice to find it on your own as well, however when running with a group, I like the idea of each member picking up different quests sharing them and solving them.

Another nice questing aspect is meeting characters (npcs) off the beaten path who have interesting tasks regarding the area they're in. Will GW2 have this outside of the "Story" portion of the game? I know GW1 really didn't, in large part anyway.

Dynamic events DO cover a lot of what you want.

First off, DE's replace quests. If you just imagine, for every quest, there is a DE. There are some 1,500+ events to explore, so it isn't just one DE per map. We have seen a lot of different maps, from starting zone, to mid-level zone. Within each of those maps, there were always events present. (You know an event is nearby because the UI shows you clues in the upper right.) More often than not, there were 2 or 3 events constantly present at any given time. Will the whole game be like this? No, there will no doubt be desolate maps where events occur very rarely.

Secondly, what is your incentive to quest? To gather experience right? It's the same with events. I don't know if you have played Rift, but you are describing sounds a lot like rifts. Rifts were generally far between. So when the game launched, everyone in that area wanted to check out that one rift. Thus the reason, we had massive zerging when the game launched. However, for events, it isn't just one laying around somewhere. Right off the bat, right outside the tutorial, there were a handful of events within running distance. So for the "simple" events, there won't be zerging unless a guild plans to zerg a map or whatever. There will still be the "difficult" events that will require more people to take on. Events like the Shatterer's landing was fought with 60-100 different people. There were also NPC's there to help as well.

Thirdly, if you want to run into random NPC's, then events should play better than quests. With questing, whether you complete the quest or not, and even after you do, the npc remains there. With events, NPC's will literally run up to you, beg for your help and point you in the direction of the event. These NPC's only act this way if the event is taking place, and sometimes won't be there at all. You never had to read what they say, because the game is fully voiced over. You never need to check your map, as he will point you to the area. That area will show signs of events, either through smoke, fire, or whatever is happening. Then there is the scout. These guys will give you a basic rundown of the area. They will hint you to explore this or that part of the map, or whereever events are occuring.

With that, there are a few other things to do to gain experience. Each city has a handful of mini-games to participate in. These range from druken barfights, to bow shooting competitions, to snowball fights, to racing, and a bunch of other ones. I believe they are aiming for 10 or so per city. With 6 major cities, expect to see quite a few mini-games.

There are also "tasks" that scouts will point out for you. These are located on your map with an empty heart. Since you play a hero, you can go around the map and gradually fill up the hearts by doing various tasks. Some that we know of are... watering plants for gardeners, feeding cows for farmers, and chasing rabbits away. These are the the closest things you can compare to a quest, even though they don't generally involve combat. But like quests, they are simple and straight forward. We don't know if the hearts empty out after a while or how often you encounter these. So far it seems like maybe 5 or 6 per map, ontop of the dynamic events happening.

My suggestion is to just treat events as if they were quests. Just find a scout, or wander around until you see something bad happening. The events are supposed to be viewable form a distance via smoke plumes, explosions, or screaming, or whatever is related to that event. Then when you encounter an event, just play along and do the objectives. There can be multiple objectives to beating that event. When you beat it, new objectives will appear and lead you into a new area to start the next chain. If you lose, there should be events that you can beat to "counter" and get back to where you started.

Crafting gains you experience too.

BlahTeeb · August 2011

Originally posted by Distopia
I made a map to explain what I am saying.

Legend:

Red = DE

Green= dungeon

Orange= Story entrance

Yellow= mob grinding?

This is inaccurate for two reasons. First off, DE's appear much more often than what is shown here. If you get a chance to play it, you can see that the red circles are nearly touching. Secondly, the red circles move, stretch, and change shape to adapt to the next/previous chain. So it isn't just a stable map. The red dots will be shifting all over the maps.

But to be completely honest, if you find yourself in an area where all the events are currently pushed away from you... then yes, you might have to fight mobs until the area gets going again. But to contrast with quests... once you have done the 20 or so quests in that map, the map is nearly gone forever. When you outlevel that area, you are practically forced to move on. Since you scale down with the areas in GW2, you should never be too high for any area. That means, if the map you are in is in a boring state, just go to some lower level areas and do events there. They will exists forever. They just won't be at the same point everytime. More than likely, you won't be able to experience all the chains in EVERY event anyways...

Distopia2 · August 2011

That makes sense, the replace the idea of quests with DE's advice.

@ Romanator: Yeah I know there are a ton more DE's than I listed on that map, but to make sure it fit within this forum, and was visible, I opted for the way in which I did it. Think of the map as one zone rather than a continent and it would make more sense, but I was wrong in how I layed it out anyway.

@Blah: My incentive for questing is in part about stories and immersion ( a connection to the world), the rest is more about tasks that take me from place to place of interest. The other part would be finding random NPCs off the beaten path, that offer tasks that give you a better idea of what's going on in that part of the world.

Xp is just a bonus to me, I play for the journey, rather than the reward.

Distopia2 · August 2011

Originally posted by BlahTeeb
This is inaccurate for two reasons. First off, DE's appear much more often than what is shown here. If you get a chance to play it, you can see that the red circles are nearly touching. Secondly, the red circles move, stretch, and change shape to adapt to the next/previous chain. So it isn't just a stable map. The red dots will be shifting all over the maps.

But to be completely honest, if you find yourself in an area where all the events are currently pushed away from you... then yes, you might have to fight mobs until the area gets going again. But to contrast with quests... once you have done the 20 or so quests in that map, the map is nearly gone forever. When you outlevel that area, you are practically forced to move on. Since you scale down with the areas in GW2, you should never be too high for any area. That means, if the map you are in is in a boring state, just go to some lower level areas and do events there. They will exists forever. They just won't be at the same point everytime. More than likely, you won't be able to experience all the chains in EVERY event anyways...

Yeah that was what I was thinking after reading both responses so far. You're right that generally once you're done with an area's quests you're done with that area, unless you go there looking for PVP or a dungeon entrance.

I guess the part in orange does reinforce my idea that quests ( interesting ones of course) would even further enhance the experience GW2 seems to be offering on the PVE front. Can't have it all though, so it's not something I'm going to crusade about or anything:).

My main concern was that all there would be to do was DE's, which I guess is a reality, I can live with that though. I still don't really view a DE as a quest (adventure). More like a dungeon in the open world. IMO of course.

Kaneth · August 2011

There was also mention of completing all of the scout missions in an area netting you some additional rewards.

The way I see it, is that when you're in the open world, you'd most likely just wander the country side, killing things and running into DE's along the way. If you have the completionist bug, you'd actively seek out the scouts to complete all of the scout tasks to complete the "heart". When you get bored of that, you have your personal story, dungeoning and pvp. If you're bored of all of that, then you can also craft and run around looking for materials, and also participate in mini-games in the area.

What has the potential to make all of this more fun, is that ANet is wanting to remove compeition from general pve, so that while you're running around completing DE's, you might keep running into the same folks. If you're a social person, you'd strike up a conversation and start hanging out with these people. Even if they are friends for a day, you might find yourself having a lot more fun.

BlahTeeb · August 2011

Originally posted by Distopia
That makes sense, the replace the idea of quests with DE's advice.

@ Romanator: Yeah I know there are a ton more DE's than I listed on that map, but to make sure it fit within this forum, and was visible, I opted for the way in which I did it. Think of the map as one zone rather than a continent and it would make more sense, but I was wrong in how I layed it out anyway.

@Blah: My incentive for questing is in part about stories and immersion ( a connection to the world), the rest is more about tasks that take me from place to place of interest. The other part would be finding random NPCs off the beaten path, that offer tasks that give you a better idea of what's going on in that part of the world.

Xp is just a bonus to me, I play for the journey, rather than the reward.

Then events should benefit you even more.

What happens after you kill orgres that are harrassing farmer John?

Had it been a quest, they'd still be there. Forever... You can't help farmer John via quests.

Had it been an event... when the ogres are defeated, they flee. They are nowhere to be found. But farmer John will tell you (with voice) that the ogres seem to be coming from that cave on the hill over there. When you travel to the cave, you find that there is an ogre village inside the cave. You can either participate in that event or just leave it alone. But if you leave it alone, the ogres will attack the farm in a short time. If you raid the cave and succeed, the ogres will have to spawn back and rebuild their village before attacking. You can just walk away and come back another time, and things will change from now and then. Farmer John might have told others about the cave already, and when you get there, the treasures/experience won't be there anymore. In that sense, the world is much more vibrant and alive. Of course events represent real world occurences, but its the best we can settle for now...

BlahTeeb · August 2011

Originally posted by Distopia

Yeah that was what I was thinking after reading both responses so far. You're right that generally once you're done with an area's quests you're done with that area, unless you go there looking for PVP or a dungeon entrance.

I guess the part in orange does reinforce my idea that quests ( interesting ones of course) would even further enhance the experience GW2 seems to be offering on the PVE front. Can't have it all though, so it's not something I'm going to crusade about or anything:).

My main concern was that all there would be to do was DE's, which I guess is a reality, I can live with that though. I still don't really view a DE as a quest (adventure). More like a dungeon in the open world. IMO of course.

That's totally understandable. I wouldn't rule out adventures ine events though. Just the fact that you can see events from miles away makes it that much more adventurous.

Once downside for you would probably be this... If you are in an area and just haning out, events may shift and stretch to your current location. In these scenarios, there wouldn't be any adventure at all, as the events can sometimes "suprise" you instead of you seeking it out.

I'm all for both types though. I wouldn't want to spend a great amount of time chasing events anyhow. Something in between or a good mix of both should be nice though.

Distopia2 · August 2011

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Originally posted by Distopia

That makes sense, the replace the idea of quests with DE's advice.

@ Romanator: Yeah I know there are a ton more DE's than I listed on that map, but to make sure it fit within this forum, and was visible, I opted for the way in which I did it. Think of the map as one zone rather than a continent and it would make more sense, but I was wrong in how I layed it out anyway.

@Blah: My incentive for questing is in part about stories and immersion ( a connection to the world), the rest is more about tasks that take me from place to place of interest. The other part would be finding random NPCs off the beaten path, that offer tasks that give you a better idea of what's going on in that part of the world.

Xp is just a bonus to me, I play for the journey, rather than the reward.

Then events should benefit you even more.

What happens after you kill orgres that are harrassing farmer John?

Had it been a quest, they'd still be there. Forever... You can't help farmer John via quests.

Had it been an event... when the ogres are defeated, they flee. They are nowhere to be found. But farmer John will tell you (with voice) that the ogres seem to be coming from that cave on the hill over there. When you travel to the cave, you find that there is an ogre village inside the cave. You can either participate in that event or just leave it alone. But if you leave it alone, the ogres will attack the farm in a short time. If you raid the cave and succeed, the ogres will have to spawn back and rebuild their village before attacking. You can just walk away and come back another time, and things will change from now and then. Farmer John might have told others about the cave already, and when you get there, the treasures/experience won't be there anymore. In that sense, the world is much more vibrant and alive. Of course events represent real world occurences, but its the best we can settle for now...

That sounds pretty interesting, not that I didn't already know about this sort of thing. I look forward to events for sure, I just wonder how interesting they'll remain over the long haul, once you've ran most of them, and seen how they end up. As they'd still eventually reach a point where you've seen them (maybe not every single phase) but the important parts, cause & effect.

I guess really I'm just asking for more, which is not something I expect to see, or even think they should think about. Though if they got that feeling crazy bug, and added a full on questing experience on top of everything else, I'd be happy, I mean really happy. I can still be happy with what I do get, I'm a flexible kinda guy .

BlahTeeb · August 2011

Originally posted by Distopia

That sounds pretty interesting, not that I didn't already know about this sort of thing. I look forward to events for sure, I just wonder how interesting they'll remain over the long haul, once you've ran most of them, and seen how they end up. As they'd still eventually reach a point where you've seen them (maybe not every single phase) but the important parts, cause & effect.

I guess really I'm just asking for more, which is not something I expect to see, or even think they should think about. Though if they got that feeling crazy bug, and added a full on questing experience on top of everything else, I'd be happy, I mean really happy. I can still be happy with what I do get, I'm a flexible kinda guy .

Well, I mean, not to be naggy, but compare events to quests. Don't compare events to an entire game, as events ONLY replace quests.

How many quests did you run that were similar? How many were you even able to run twice? Everything you "hate" about events in your posts, are the exact same for quests, if not more severe.

You think you might not like events because they may become repetitive. I assure you, quests are and will be MUCH more repititve than events. Unless you like killing a mob 10 times, then killing his older brothers 10 times, then killing his masters 10 times. That is the basis of a quest. Trust me, events are NOT as repetitive as quests. I say this from direct experience.

You think events may be bad because they might not be where you are. Same for quests, even worse. Quests are stationary, always in the same location. If they are not around you, they never will be. Events still move around and will be in various locations.

I think what you really want... is just a higher number of events. You don't want repetitive or something that goes away, which means you don't want quests. What COULD solve the problem, is to have more events in each area, so that they are

A) not too repetitive

and

always around so you never have to mob grind. (Which is pretty much questing.)

sidhaethe · August 2011

FIrst: The personal story is your "Questing," both for the immersion and lore, AND as the breadcrumb trail to move you along the map from place to place. You may receive a task in your PS telling you to go talk to so and so at such and such, and along the way you will encounter the dynamic events that push you through, involving the mobs that you are learning about in your PS to tie it all together.

Second: There aren't just the events (someone already mentioned this) - there are the "hearts" on the map as well, which consist of a bunch of different tasks that build "rep" if you want to think of it that way with various NPCs in the area. These are *tied to* the DEs of the area but aren't one and the same. For the most part - at least from what I saw in the demo - even when you are just killing mobs, or grinding, you are still contributing in some way or another to one of the hearts if not a DE specifically. There are very few mobs that aren't tied to some form of content or another - which is good, because that means that even if you are "just grinding mobs" you are still able to accumulate not only XP, but karma and gold for filling hearts as you move along. And finally, there is more than one way to fill these hearts, several of which don't involve combat, so it isn't just a matter of zerging one area and moving on to zerg another.

Distopia2 · August 2011

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Well, I mean, not to be naggy, but compare events to quests. Don't compare events to an entire game, as events ONLY replace quests.

How many quests did you run that were similar? How many were you even able to run twice? Everything you "hate" about events in your posts, are the exact same for quests, if not more severe.

You think you might not like events because they may become repetitive. I assure you, quests are and will be MUCH more repititve than events. Unless you like killing a mob 10 times, then killing his older brothers 10 times, then killing his masters 10 times. That is the basis of a quest. Trust me, events are NOT as repetitive as quests. I say this from direct experience.

You think events may be bad because they might not be where you are. Same for quests, even worse. Quests are stationary, always in the same location. If they are not around you, they never will be. Events still move around and will be in various locations.

I think what you really want... is just a higher number of events. You don't want repetitive or something that goes away, which means you don't want quests. What COULD solve the problem, is to have more events in each area, so that they are

A) not too repetitive

and

always around so you never have to mob grind. (Which is pretty much questing.)

Hold on haha, I never said I didn't like anything about DE's. I was asking what there was to do outside of them, as I or my group might not always want to run one. Just wanted to clear that up, i don't think there's much to complain about in reference to DE's. I just don't see myself always wanting to run that type of content.

I just think questing could add more to the experience, but again, it's not something I expect to see, or expect everyone to agree with.

BTW not all questing is mob grinding, it really depends on what type of quests we're talking about here. I'm not into kill x of y or taking these pies to Aunt May. I like quests that reward exploration, quests that involve lore, saving an NPC and escorting them over distances. This type of stuff is what I'm talking about, RPG questing. I am in no way talking about boring WOW quests where I need to find 100 hides or kill 1000 wolves.

cali59 · August 2011

Your map immediately got me thinking about http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic which starts with a map showing the DEs and how they chain around the area. Counting up the bullet points, we can see there's about 50 of them.

For comparison, I decided to look at the number of quests in WoW's Loch Modan zone because it's a one faction zone with a body of water in it. There's about 50 quests in Loch Modan. There's also about 40 quests in the Wetlands and 45 in Redridge.

So as far as density goes, it looks pretty good. Also keep in mind that these are events so they're all things that are happening to take part in, not FedEx quests that just take you to another hub.

Distopia2 · August 2011

Originally posted by sidhaethe
FIrst: The personal story is your "Questing," both for the immersion and lore, AND as the breadcrumb trail to move you along the map from place to place. You may receive a task in your PS telling you to go talk to so and so at such and such, and along the way you will encounter the dynamic events that push you through, involving the mobs that you are learning about in your PS to tie it all together.

Second: There aren't just the events (someone already mentioned this) - there are the "hearts" on the map as well, which consist of a bunch of different tasks that build "rep" if you want to think of it that way with various NPCs in the area. These are *tied to* the DEs of the area but aren't one and the same. For the most part - at least from what I saw in the demo - even when you are just killing mobs, or grinding, you are still contributing in some way or another to one of the hearts if not a DE specifically. There are very few mobs that aren't tied to some form of content or another - which is good, because that means that even if you are "just grinding mobs" you are still able to accumulate not only XP, but karma and gold for filling hearts as you move along. And finally, there is more than one way to fill these hearts, several of which don't involve combat, so it isn't just a matter of zerging one area and moving on to zerg another.

Thanks for the info, I'm glad someone who has played took the time to reply, as you basically just calmed my fears. Especially with your "first" section. That's exactly what I was talking about. I'm more of an old school RPG kind of guy, I like quests that lead me around, yet don't hold my hand. They just help lead me to where I want to be, while allowing me to experience other things and sites while I'm doing them.

As an example an Npc tells me to find Riverhold, an urgent matter needs my attention there, which puts me on a path of finding Riverhold, while I have a goal, I'm not soley experiencing just a quest. I'm seeing new sites, finding new areas, fighting hard enemies etc. Sounds like A-net has me covered.

sircusa · August 2011

I'm not really sure what exactly you want. I'm assuming it might be some kind of exploration or quest you receive to go on a journey. Now from what I've read, PVE content is basically DEs, Personal Story and Dungeons. (I guess there's crafting and minigames)

Personal stories seem to fit this bill the most but I think they'll make some DEs that needs to be found or even triggered. I suppose the problem here is that the developers are attempting to make the game very accessible so you might think there would be too much hand holding.

Ah and there are also dungeons, the more difficult content. There are 2 modes, Story (Easy) and Explorable (Hard). Explorable will forego/reduce the cutscenes to make them easier to repeat and will involve branching paths as well giving more control over your adventure. Maybe that's what you want?

Well it's mostly speculation. If you have more to ask, try using more examples.

BlahTeeb · August 2011

Originally posted by Distopia

Hold on haha, I never said I didn't like anything about DE's. I was asking what there was to do outside of them, as I or my group might not always want to run one. Just wanted to clear that up, i don't think there's much to complain about in reference to DE's. I just don't see myself always wanting to run that type of content.

I just think questing could add more to the experience, but again, it's not something I expect to see, or expect everyone to agree with.

BTW not all questing is mob grinding, it really depends on what type of quests we're talking about here. I'm not into kill x of y or taking these pies to Aunt May. I like quests that reward exploration, quests that involve lore, saving an NPC and escorting them over distances. This type of stuff is what I'm talking about, RPG questing. I am in no way talking about boring WOW quests where I need to find 100 hides or kill 1000 wolves.

I didn't say you didn't like dynamic events.

I just explained what you thought was missing.

Everything you just listed is part of events. Escorts. Exploration. Lores.

ArenaNet gave examples of how some quests require you to swim really deep and fight difficult mobs to activate certain events. There are ones where you have to get to the end of a cave and remove a pearl from the cave that unleashes a giant monster that will roam the nearby land.

I personally, as my opinion of course... don't see quests adding much to the game. Quests do not promote exploration anymore than events. Events will, in the end, mean more. You can't really escort NPC's in regular quests, because they respawn for the next group of players to do the quest. In events, they will be escorted and stay escorted. It is only until they wander too far or they are attacked on a second journey that they need to be escorted again.

But as an honest question, what do you feel quests could add that events COULDN'T? I believe everything you wanted in a quest is already covered in the events. When I played, one of the first events was to escort a guy (and his barrel wagon) to a small village. So as a real question, what can questing add that events couldn't?

Distopia2 · August 2011

Originally posted by sircusa
I'm not really sure what exactly you want. I'm assuming it might be some kind of exploration or quest you receive to go on a journey. Now from what I've read, PVE content is basically DEs, Personal Story and Dungeons. (I guess there's crafting and minigames)

Personal stories seem to fit this bill the most but I think they'll make some DEs that needs to be found or even triggered. I suppose the problem here is that the developers are attempting to make the game very accessible so you might think there would be too much hand holding.

Ah and there are also dungeons, the more difficult content. There are 2 modes, Story (Easy) and Explorable (Hard). Explorable will forego/reduce the cutscenes to make them easier to repeat and will involve branching paths as well giving more control over your adventure. Maybe that's what you want?

Well it's mostly speculation. If you have more to ask, try using more examples.

After watching the Video Cali linked... well about half of it so far (bookmarked for the rest).. GW2 is offering exactly what I want, I had the wrong idea completely. Thanks for that video Cali.

DE's and the scout/crier system are exactly what I was saying I like and want to see. Colin basically stated my qualm verbatim in that video, I'm an explorer type, I like being given direction but not being lead , I like having a general idea and then figuring the rest out on my own. Think Morrowind over Oblivion (green arrows).

I like that there are NPCs wandering around who you can get general information from on events, as well as visual queues that tell me, hey!, something bad is happening over there. Great system.

Now I know....

Distopia2 · August 2011

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

I didn't say you didn't like dynamic events.

I just explained what you thought was missing.

Everything you just listed is part of events. Escorts. Exploration. Lores.

ArenaNet gave examples of how some quests require you to swim really deep and fight difficult mobs to activate certain events. There are ones where you have to get to the end of a cave and remove a pearl from the cave that unleashes a giant monster that will roam the nearby land.

I personally, as my opinion of course... don't see quests adding much to the game. Quests do not promote exploration anymore than events. Events will, in the end, mean more. You can't really escort NPC's in regular quests, because they respawn for the next group of players to do the quest. In events, they will be escorted and stay escorted. It is only until they wander too far or they are attacked on a second journey that they need to be escorted again.

But as an honest question, what do you feel quests could add that events COULDN'T? I believe everything you wanted in a quest is already covered in the events. When I played, one of the first events was to escort a guy (and his barrel wagon) to a small village. So as a real question, what can questing add that events couldn't?

If you read my last two replies you'll see I was basically harping over nothing. DE's as they're described by users and journalists don't really seem to be given proper justice. Because of this I had a really warped Idea of what a DE was. Like I said I looked at it as a world dungeon, which really didn't offer exploration or travel to new (far away) places. I was wrong, and the system is a lot more like questing than I orginally thought.

MumboJumbo · August 2011

Here's a map of some DEs:

So you can see the events involve moving around the map. This then leads to further chains in the DE or other areas with other DEs & so on... ie walking into mobs or discovering something.

Eric Flannum on DEs:

Is the term “quest” reserved for the personal story? Will we have traditional quests in addition to events?

Eric: We’ve actually gone away from using the term “quest” to describe any of our content. The feeling is that the word has a lot of baggage associated with it. It brings certain expectations and preconceptions that we don’t want players to have in mind when they play our game.

That being said, there are no traditional quests in Guild Wars 2. We have three main types of content in the game. First, we have events which we’ve started talking about in some detail. Next we have the personal storyline, which is probably closest to being what players usually think of as a “quest” and yet it’s very different at the same time. We’ll be talking about the personal storyline very soon. Then we have dungeons, which are organized group content, but again with ArenaNet’s own particular twist. We’ll talk about dungeons a little further down the road.

Can a zone be empty of events and, if so, will it stop the player’s progress? Would there be a danger that a player might need to reroll a character if her progress is hampered by a lack of events?

Eric: A zone or map (which is how we refer to what I think players tend to regard as a zone) is never empty of events. Events occur pretty frequently so an empty map wouldn’t stay that way for very long. Even in a theoretical situation where a map was to be empty for an extended period of time, it would have no real effect on a player’s progress. A player has many ways of progressing in Guild Wars 2 and events are only one of the many ways he or she has of experiencing the world. A player who doesn’t have an event occurring near them has many choices of things to do (including exploring a little and probably finding an event fairly quickly) such as following their personal storyline, earning achievements, discovering and earning traits, or completing collections. There is no end to the variety and amount of content available to players.

So you have:

Main Content => Personal Story + Dynamic Events + Dungeons

Side Content => Earning Achievements, Discovering/earning Traits/skills, Side-tasks around DEs eg collecting rabbit, Mini-games in cities, crafting and customization, guild stuff, exploring & finding easter eggs

In terms of progression: "Most things" you actively do will earn XP; can't be exact as to what:

We expect everyone to make a reasonable amount of progression with each play session. It shouldn’t take days of playing before you feel like you have made any progress, and you definitely shouldn’t have to kill a bunch of creatures or do a bunch of repetitive tasks just to see what’s over that next hill. We want our progression to keep up with your play style. If you’re a casual gamer who plays for a few hours here and there, why should you feel like it’s going to take you a decade to finish your character? If you’re a hardcore player, why shouldn’t you be able to blast through the game with skill and speed, trying to experience every last bit of content?

XP is earnt by interacting with content, more than grinding out a laundry list of quests (flat level curve) so you de-emphasized. As to level differences between areas and how much XP you receive still uncertain.

Distopia2 · August 2011

@ MJ Thanks for even more info, if anything this has become a very informative thread.

Dubhlaith · August 2011

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sircusa
I'm not really sure what exactly you want. I'm assuming it might be some kind of exploration or quest you receive to go on a journey. Now from what I've read, PVE content is basically DEs, Personal Story and Dungeons. (I guess there's crafting and minigames)
Personal stories seem to fit this bill the most but I think they'll make some DEs that needs to be found or even triggered. I suppose the problem here is that the developers are attempting to make the game very accessible so you might think there would be too much hand holding.
Ah and there are also dungeons, the more difficult content. There are 2 modes, Story (Easy) and Explorable (Hard). Explorable will forego/reduce the cutscenes to make them easier to repeat and will involve branching paths as well giving more control over your adventure. Maybe that's what you want?
Well it's mostly speculation. If you have more to ask, try using more examples.

After watching the Video Cali linked... well about half of it so far (bookmarked for the rest).. GW2 is offering exactly what I want, I had the wrong idea completely. Thanks for that video Cali.
DE's and the scout/crier system are exactly what I was saying I like and want to see. Colin basically stated my qualm verbatim in that video, I'm an explorer type, I like being given direction but not being lead , I like having a general idea and then figuring the rest out on my own. Think Morrowind over Oblivion (green arrows).
I like that there are NPCs wandering around who you can get general information from on events, as well as visual queues that tell me, hey!, something bad is happening over there. Great system.
Now I know....

I am glad Guild Wars 2 will be offering you want you want, and I hope you enjoy the game as much as I expect to.

But, and I don't want to be mean, this is why people should do even a tiny bit of research (maybe search youtube for "Guild Wars 2 dynamic events" or something) before asking basic questions. The whole thread has basically been people assuming you knew what you were talking about and trying to allay your fears, when the basic information about the concept would have done that for you. This miscommunication (as well as all sorts of other problems) could be avoided by people watching a few minutes of the tons and tons of gameplay footage available at this point.
Again, I'm not trying to rag on you, I'm just saying you could have had your answer much easier and more quickly had you done that instead of asking to have the information given to you.

(As an aside, it is "visual cues." A cue is a signal or reminder {or the thing you use in billiards}, while a queue is a line.)

But more to the point, there is nothing I can think of or have heard about that would work better as a quest than as a dynamic event. I mean, you could have courier quests and such that are not really "events," but those aren't very good quests, and are covered otherwise. I just really love the idea of things actually changing when I am doing stuff. we all work together and actually drive out the monsters, and the monsters are really gone, for a while anyway. Much better than killing ten monsters and there still being tons just sort of milling about waiting for the next person to come along and slaughter ten more. We are so past that, technologically and ideologically.

mazut · August 2011

And other overview of this particular map DEs:

Unlight · August 2011

Originally posted by BlahTeeb

Originally posted by Distopia

Yeah that was what I was thinking after reading both responses so far. You're right that generally once you're done with an area's quests you're done with that area, unless you go there looking for PVP or a dungeon entrance.

I guess the part in orange does reinforce my idea that quests ( interesting ones of course) would even further enhance the experience GW2 seems to be offering on the PVE front. Can't have it all though, so it's not something I'm going to crusade about or anything:).

My main concern was that all there would be to do was DE's, which I guess is a reality, I can live with that though. I still don't really view a DE as a quest (adventure). More like a dungeon in the open world. IMO of course.

That's totally understandable. I wouldn't rule out adventures ine events though. Just the fact that you can see events from miles away makes it that much more adventurous.

Once downside for you would probably be this... If you are in an area and just haning out, events may shift and stretch to your current location. In these scenarios, there wouldn't be any adventure at all, as the events can sometimes "suprise" you instead of you seeking it out.

I'm all for both types though. I wouldn't want to spend a great amount of time chasing events anyhow. Something in between or a good mix of both should be nice though.

This is one of the cooler aspects of events, as opposed to Quests -- they can just happen to you. You might be out, minding your own business gathering mats or doing some sightseeing, when the sky suddenly goes dark and snow starts falling. The spawns of deer and moa you'd been bumping into slowly get replaced by roving packs of winter wolves out for blood. Something big is happening in the world around you and you're stuck in the middle of it. What do you do?

That most of all is something I'd like to experience. Rather than having to be the trigger for everything, sometimes being a hapless participant. Knowing that the world is in motion at all times with or without your input, and it's a lot bigger than you are. It's just not something that quests can portray.

Interesting also will be how your personal storyline will mesh with dynamic events. I'm sure there are many steps in your story that will take place out the big world, which will subject them to the whims of changing events. Doing a particular step one day may be vastly different from taking the same step the day after because the environment it takes place in can be altered by a concurrent event. A cake walk today might be a hell run tomorrow. And because you just never know what you'll be in for, you can't simply read a guide to find the solution. No quest system can hope to be anywhere near as engaging.

Distopia2 · August 2011

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

I am glad Guild Wars 2 will be offering you want you want, and I hope you enjoy the game as much as I expect to.

But, and I don't want to be mean, this is why people should do even a tiny bit of research (maybe search youtube for "Guild Wars 2 dynamic events" or something) before asking basic questions. The whole thread has basically been people assuming you knew what you were talking about and trying to allay your fears, when the basic information about the concept would have done that for you. This miscommunication (as well as all sorts of other problems) could be avoided by people watching a few minutes of the tons and tons of gameplay footage available at this point.

Again, I'm not trying to rag on you, I'm just saying you could have had your answer much easier and more quickly had you done that instead of asking to have the information given to you.

(As an aside, it is "visual cues." A cue is a signal or reminder {or the thing you use in billiards}, while a queue is a line.)

But more to the point, there is nothing I can think of or have heard about that would work better as a quest than as a dynamic event. I mean, you could have courier quests and such that are not really "events," but those aren't very good quests, and are covered otherwise. I just really love the idea of things actually changing when I am doing stuff. we all work together and actually drive out the monsters, and the monsters are really gone, for a while anyway. Much better than killing ten monsters and there still being tons just sort of milling about waiting for the next person to come along and slaughter ten more. We are so past that, technologically and ideologically.

As for spelling correction it was 5 am in the morning and I haven't been to bed yet, still haven't. I don't need spelling or grammar lessons TYVM (jeez). ( BTW wouldn't it be what I want, rather than want I want? ;)P)... you just made the same mistake I did...

I was mistaken as to how DE's were being handled in the big picture, as well as how the world layout tied into them. I haven't seen very much discussion on this, which is why I made this thread to begin with.

Asking is an act of seeking information, I figured that's part of why forums like this exist. The posters here had no reason to reply if they didn't feel up to it. I got a ton of information, and a good link for where to find more. Would that have happened if I hadn't asked? NO, which is why I did.

Who has time to sit and read/ watch every single piece of game info that gets released? I'm not only watching one game or only interested in one game. I look up info on many. If I tried knowing all there is to know about every single one, how would I have time for anything else?

Is there something inherently wrong with asking how something works? Is there something so terrible about being confused about how a video-game is set up or works?

If I can't seek out information from informed posters here, what is the point of a forum like this even existing?

Besides there are posters who have actually played the thing, which I trust their word over anything I read from a devs mouth or blog, which is why I get a lot of my information from that avenue. Sometimes even that turns out to be not so reliable. Still at least you're getting a real consumer view on something and not marketing speak aimed at selling a product.

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