I'd like to see them implement ground mounts in the foreseeable future. No flying mounts though!
As long as they make the mounts level 80, so I have all the waypoints I need unlocked, and I am not forced to use them on characters that I think mounts would not be needed then I am fine with that. I should not have to change my play style to make mount lovers happy and they should not have to change theirs to make me happy. So level 80 required mounts would work perfectly!
Great job on the video!
Just out of curiosity....where has everyone been getting the idea that max level will be as high as 80, particularly at release? Did I miss them announcing this or something (very possible). Not saying you're assuming that, but I have seen other posts on the forums speaking of "level 80" too....
"A character can be used to play any game mode available in Guild Wars 2: PvE, Structured PvP and World PvP. A player may still have multiple characters. The game is designed to be viable for both solo and group play.
The level cap has been raised to 80[3]. There will be a plateau of power, where each level no longer adds as much to the power of the character. A side-kick system has been mentioned which would allow characters of a lower level to play with high level characters without disadvantage. Conversely, higher level characters will have their power scaled down in areas designed for lower level players." - GW Wiki.
The problem with having to run everywhere is that it's generally boring as hell. I remember having to run for an hour in Everquest to get to a boat so I could wait 15 minutes for it to arrive and then spend another 15 minutes riding it to another continent and then running another hour or more to get to a hunting ground. Then once my bags were full I'd teleport back to a bind point, sell, and then have to run again for who the hell knows how long to get back to the farming point. That got old pretty fast.
Don't get me wrong; I LOVED running around everywhere in Morrowind, and used mods in Oblivion and Fallout 3 that disabled fast travel, because I loved exploring the worlds, so I am not just some ADHD teen who can't stand not being constantly engaged in combat and I can fully appreciate the appeal of non-teleportation exploration. Running around and finding new cities, new dungeons, and the like in Morrowind was some of the most fun I've had in a game. The thing is, that was kind of the point of those games. Not so with GW2.
GW2, while taking place in an open world and having non-combat related features, is basically a game centered around PVP and DE combat, not exploration and atmosphere, and making players run for who the hell knows how long just to get to the point where they can actually do what they bought the game to do (engage in combat, whether in PVP or in a DE) makes no sense. Even still, you have to explore at least once per character before the waypoints are unlocked, so there is some exploration aspect to the game.
I actually just found this, it's a little too short and a month old to be its own thread, but I thought you might appreciate it.
Player exploration of Guild Wars 2 will be encouraged and rewarded, just as it was in the original Guild Wars. It’s up to the environment team to fill our game with memorable locations worthy of that exploration. A series of broken stone columns turns out to be a jumping puzzle to reach a hidden cave mouth overgrown with vines. The caved-in floor of a ruined fort drops you down several stories into a flooded subbasement haunted by the cursed ghosts of pirates. A hatch in the basement of a farmhouse conceals a tunnel to the cavern hideout of a bandit gang.
As if that isn't good enough, I feel compelled to link the next paragraph too
Players who enjoyed the lore of Guild Wars will find plenty of relics from our game’s history in the landscape of Guild Wars 2, sometimes tucked into surprising places. Upheaval and cataclysm left in the wake of dragons has twisted some familiar locations almost beyond recognition while sinking others underwater. Ideally, it should always be a short run to the next awe-inspiring vista, and unique landmarks should occur regularly enough for an explorer to navigate easily, even without resorting to the in-game map.
Just because there's fast travel doesn't mean there isn't going to be a hell of a lot of reason to explore in this game. Instead of spending 15 minutes just trying to meet up with your friend, meet them instantly and then go off into the woods. Sounds like there's a lot to find.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
It seems like those hearts on the map via the scout system are just quests and they're sugar coating it. They're saying dynamic events are random but how are they if you know where they'll be?
Those hearts you see on the map are not dynamic events. Dynamic events are not easily shown in the scout system.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Think you have some music in the background that filters through unintentionally?
1) I intend never to see what the Scout System does: It (for me) completely removes the whole point of having DEs OUT IN THE WILD that you come across through your own searches and journey and exploration. I also hope we can turn off the "DE active nearby" banner warning too.
2) Mounts: I don't like any of the implementations of mounts I've seen in themepark MMOs: Speed-boosters trivialize the content imo. Sure if mmo worlds were truly enormous and costs were involved eg space does this better than fantasy with the various gates etc. But GW2 has waypoints which imo work to the same idea and better idea than mounts overall.
They can sell mounts for heaps in the shop for all I care!
1. Agreed, I will stay away from them myself as well.
2. Age of Conan actually at least try with mounts. You get special attacks and so on from them, no special weapons like lances or anything but at least they tried. GW2 will have to do better than that and actually add knights and joust if they want to make me happy, I think it would be a great theme for an expansion.
I like the waypoint system but it looks to me that they have far too many waypoints, one for every city and village is enough for me.
The problem with having to run everywhere is that it's generally boring as hell. I remember having to run for an hour in Everquest to get to a boat so I could wait 15 minutes for it to arrive and then spend another 15 minutes riding it to another continent and then running another hour or more to get to a hunting ground. Then once my bags were full I'd teleport back to a bind point, sell, and then have to run again for who the hell knows how long to get back to the farming point. That got old pretty fast.
Don't get me wrong; I LOVED running around everywhere in Morrowind, and used mods in Oblivion and Fallout 3 that disabled fast travel, because I loved exploring the worlds, so I am not just some ADHD teen who can't stand not being constantly engaged in combat and I can fully appreciate the appeal of non-teleportation exploration. Running around and finding new cities, new dungeons, and the like in Morrowind was some of the most fun I've had in a game. The thing is, that was kind of the point of those games. Not so with GW2.
GW2, while taking place in an open world and having non-combat related features, is basically a game centered around PVP and DE combat, not exploration and atmosphere, and making players run for who the hell knows how long just to get to the point where they can actually do what they bought the game to do (engage in combat, whether in PVP or in a DE) makes no sense. Even still, you have to explore at least once per character before the waypoints are unlocked, so there is some exploration aspect to the game.
I actually just found this, it's a little too short and a month old to be its own thread, but I thought you might appreciate it.
Player exploration of Guild Wars 2 will be encouraged and rewarded, just as it was in the original Guild Wars. It’s up to the environment team to fill our game with memorable locations worthy of that exploration. A series of broken stone columns turns out to be a jumping puzzle to reach a hidden cave mouth overgrown with vines. The caved-in floor of a ruined fort drops you down several stories into a flooded subbasement haunted by the cursed ghosts of pirates. A hatch in the basement of a farmhouse conceals a tunnel to the cavern hideout of a bandit gang.
As if that isn't good enough, I feel compelled to link the next paragraph too
Players who enjoyed the lore of Guild Wars will find plenty of relics from our game’s history in the landscape of Guild Wars 2, sometimes tucked into surprising places. Upheaval and cataclysm left in the wake of dragons has twisted some familiar locations almost beyond recognition while sinking others underwater. Ideally, it should always be a short run to the next awe-inspiring vista, and unique landmarks should occur regularly enough for an explorer to navigate easily, even without resorting to the in-game map.
Just because there's fast travel doesn't mean there isn't going to be a hell of a lot of reason to explore in this game. Instead of spending 15 minutes just trying to meet up with your friend, meet them instantly and then go off into the woods. Sounds like there's a lot to find.
I... didn't know about that at all. So basically, you can explore and find cool and interesting things, OR just teleport and get into the combat right away if that's what you want. That is truly awesome.
I... didn't know about that at all. So basically, you can explore and find cool and interesting things, OR just teleport and get into the combat right away if that's what you want. That is truly awesome.
Sorry, you still have to explore. You unlock the waypoint when you explore, you can then teleport to them later if you want to instead of running there. They explained it in the video OP posted.
I... didn't know about that at all. So basically, you can explore and find cool and interesting things, OR just teleport and get into the combat right away if that's what you want. That is truly awesome.
Sorry, you still have to explore. You unlock the waypoint when you explore, you can then teleport to them later if you want to instead of running there. They explained it in the video OP posted.
and this in a nutshell is why I want waypoints, and no mounts.
you must already explode, why would i want to rewalk the same path i already took? it does not sound fun to me to do that. and i dntwant mounts because it makes the world smaller, and you dont look at it the same way. running the whole thing should take time, and thats what the waypoints alloow you to do, they let you fill your map without having to run to every place you missed. you can argue that you could do it all in a sitting with a mount, but that is the thing i would want least. i want it to take time, u just dont want to retread ground i have seen many times before to do it
I... didn't know about that at all. So basically, you can explore and find cool and interesting things, OR just teleport and get into the combat right away if that's what you want. That is truly awesome.
Sorry, you still have to explore. You unlock the waypoint when you explore, you can then teleport to them later if you want to instead of running there. They explained it in the video OP posted.
Oh I know that, I just mean that you can either go exploring specifically to find all these cool little environmental things, giving exploration some actual depth and meaning (which I didn't know would actually be the case in GW2, honestly), or basically just unlock waypoints and then use them to go from DE to DE, if full on, run-around-everywhere-and-explore-every-nook-and-cranny exploration really isn't your thing or you're just in the mood for some quick combat without the 30 minute to an hour hike to a level appropriate hunting ground ala early Everquest.
I... didn't know about that at all. So basically, you can explore and find cool and interesting things, OR just teleport and get into the combat right away if that's what you want. That is truly awesome.
Sorry, you still have to explore. You unlock the waypoint when you explore, you can then teleport to them later if you want to instead of running there. They explained it in the video OP posted.
Oh I know that, I just mean that you can either go exploring specifically to find all these cool little environmental things, giving exploration some actual depth and meaning (which I didn't know would actually be the case in GW2, honestly), or basically just unlock waypoints and then use them to go from DE to DE, if full on, run-around-everywhere-and-explore-every-nook-and-cranny exploration really isn't your thing or you're just in the mood for some quick combat without the 30 minute to an hour hike to a level appropriate hunting ground ala early Everquest.
Don't forget about the Dynamic events that are not shown by scouts. There are hidden events such as ones where you have to swim into a lake and find a hidden cave that can spawn an enormous monster ( i'm going by memory here).
On top of this are traits which further customize your skills. These can be found by exploring the world too.
"You acquire traits by completing profession challenges scattered throughout the world. For instance, you walk into an inn and persuade a shadowy stranger into telling you a rumor about a mysterious tome full of arcane knowledge. Or you challenge a legendary swordmaster to a duel while exploring Divinity's Reach."
I thoroughly dislike the fast-travel system in GW2, in terms of the amount of fast-travel points they have. To me, it's the epitome of game-play laziness, just as with Trions implementation of fast-travel to a dungeon.
I'm one that would much prefer personal mounts, with fewer fast-travel points. Just as my humanoid has 2 legs that carry me from point-A to point-B, and that's not considered unfathomable in a fantasy world, I would expect that personal mounts and far less immediacy conveniences would be better; my opinion. Making everything so convenient in this themepark genre hasn't translated into better.
While it is true that mounts are far from 'unfathomable', when you need to start doing a quest chain, riding from here to there ask this person about that, bringing a package back and so on and so forth, then you can find yourself bored quickly by all this running around on mounts. Boredom might be more realistic, but ANet preferred fun over boredom even when that infringed on 'realism'.
I guess that most lazy players will be skipping to the fun part, but if you want to go through the motions of running all the way from here to there, then that's of course an option.
I like riding around in mmorpgs, I've never gotten bored of it, even in games I've played for years. It's a big part of fun for me, and it makes the world feel a lot more immersive and believable when I actually need to GO somewhere and not just teleport everywhere I want to go, in GW2 I see a waypoint every couple of hundred meters so it's really silly after you have all the waypoints you wont ever see the scenery of already visited places unless you have something to do there or want to ZIPP there to remind how it looks.
You wont see people returning to city because they have waypoints there, or corssing the little in middle of nowhere town because they ZIPP over it. How are people even stumbling into dynamic events later on if they dont know/remember it was there and have no other purpose to be there, when they just ZIPP over it? Some fast travel it is when you are so fast you zoom through the battlefield without even noticing it. I feel it's more powergamer/lazyness feature and breaks the immersion some, there will be a lot of people appearing and disappearing out of nowhere in this game. Asuran portals are fine, every game has "travel points" - but if there's one in every big and medium city + mounts, is a bit different than a waypoint system with a waypoint practically everywhere in the game. Why make seamless big world if you're going to fraction it with waypoints? Maybe it's not so big and waypoints are a good way to make it feel like you travel a long distance? Not a gamebreaker, but very meh feature.
Here are my thoughts about the scout system & waypoints.
I think that mounts would not be a gamebreaker, as long as they're only available at lvl 80. Also, I think that it wouldn't be bad if you can only get a mount when you've completely explored the world, or uncovered all the waypoints. This way, you'd have to explore the entire world before being able to "mount up". It would also make you more aware of how big the world actually is.
About the waypoints.. I rather like the idea of having plenty of waypoints. Why? Imagine you're doing an event, and in the middle of the event, you die. Wouldn't you rather have a waypoint close-by so don't have to run for 10 minutes just to get back to where you were? Plus, they don't come for free, so you'll actually have to be thinking of your gold when you're using them. Spamming them could empty your pockets quickly!
On a side note, thank you to everyone who thanked me for making the video! I'll be uploading a new video soon, so stay tuned!
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Think you have some music in the background that filters through unintentionally?
1) I intend never to see what the Scout System does: It (for me) completely removes the whole point of having DEs OUT IN THE WILD that you come across through your own searches and journey and exploration. I also hope we can turn off the "DE active nearby" banner warning too.
2) Mounts: I don't like any of the implementations of mounts I've seen in themepark MMOs: Speed-boosters trivialize the content imo. Sure if mmo worlds were truly enormous and costs were involved eg space does this better than fantasy with the various gates etc. But GW2 has waypoints which imo work to the same idea and better idea than mounts overall.
They can sell mounts for heaps in the shop for all I care!
1. Agreed, I will stay away from them myself as well.
2. Age of Conan actually at least try with mounts. You get special attacks and so on from them, no special weapons like lances or anything but at least they tried. GW2 will have to do better than that and actually add knights and joust if they want to make me happy, I think it would be a great theme for an expansion.
I like the waypoint system but it looks to me that they have far too many waypoints, one for every city and village is enough for me.
I think that's the problem with Mounts.
2) They are speed-boosters and nothing more, so you have:
i) Some players on foot and some on mounts speeding around. The design of the gameworld should be to be explored at a certain pace and notice things, getting distracted by things and generally adventuring imo. Then players at the same/similar pace should ideally connect up and travel around a bit together. The problem I've seen with mounts is they are so convenient ppl just stay on their mount and burn around the place like a mini-game of wipeout or something until a big event or such is worth dismounting for. That's my observation at least.
ii) If the devs work out the distances between things and time for players to move around from waypoints in concentric circles outwards they should be able to keep things more or less "hassle-reduced" in terms of making players run around once they have unlocked the next waypoint. Adding mounts and you have to cater for 2 different speeds of players and I'm not sure that's something I'd want to design for? Run rate is marginally faster eg sheathing weapons but the point of mounts is rate of movement feels significantly faster. But if Portals do that job of A-B and then movements are standard for everyone, think it solves the problem of removing the issue of "players running for hours" but keeps the designers jobs easier too about player movements around those waypoints?
iii) Mounts are not involved in combat so have limited utility other than transport. So unless that's added the above is a better decision imo.
iv) Back in the day, for immersion point of view, a steed was the equivalent of a Ferrari in terms of prestige, who could have one, afford one and upkeep the beast! If everyone has a steed (democratic) I feel the immersion is LESS with mounts than with waypoints with "Ferraris" burning around the countryside everywhere you look? Even doing cartwheels halfway up a mountain or in the swamp... etc. For me Mounts immersion breakers.
I can see why others want Mounts but I'm happy without them until they are implemented in a superior form.
Playing a videogame isn't a form of incredibly lazy leisure? You sit, like a potato, in front of a telly or desk, and you engage in mouse and keyboard use. Even the most physically active games which require insane amounts of manual dexterity still have us sitting in one place like spuds. Let's not fool ourselves about this. So to say that something in a game is lazy is an oxymoron, because when one comes home from work (paid, voluntary, what have you), the last then they want is to sit down in front of job #2. If you don't work in the first place then I guess that's fine. But some do, you know?
And let's be honest, when it comes down to it, most people lie through their teeth about mounts. It's not about using a mount to get anywhere, you can do that on foot, Guild Wars 2 provides you with a movement speed buff when your weapons are sheathed. So please, let's not bullshit around the bush, the primary desire for mounts is as a status symbol. You want to be bigger than the peasants, you want to stand tall, you want to be seen, you want to rub this in the face of people who don't have a mount, or a mount as big as yours. Mounts are e-peens. They were never anything else.
Welp, Guild Wars 2 isn't going to stroke your e-peen for you. There's a waypoint system and you can use it just like anyone else can. You can't enforce some insane form of videogame classism on people just because you have more time to play, more money to spend, or whatever else. There is a speed buff. You sheathe your weapons and you move faster. Everyone can do it. No, you can't have a status symbol, and no, you can't lie and provide other entirely faux reasons about wanting mounts because they can be seen right through.
Don't say that you want a mount to make you go faster, because again, Guild Wars 2 already has a speed buff, available to all players at any time. You can probably even use dodging to make yourself go that bit faster. But mounts are about no more than waving your superiority in a game in the face of someone who's just started. The lesser 'nubs.' The very reason that ArenaNet aren't including mounts is because they don't want people doing this.
Don't like it? There are other games out there. But for the love of all that's good, don't say it's lazy or come up with other ludicrously, obviously fake reasons for wanting mounts, I'm tired of the absurdity. At least don't be a coward and admit you just want it for the status symbol.
I'm tired of people coming up with increasingly more insane, unbeliavable, and escalatingly ridiculous reasons for wanting mounts. Just to avoid the real reason.
Woah, they have WAY too many waypoints. You could almost go everywhere without running lol. A few general waypoints would be fine...but geez they really must have some developers that hate to run even a few feet.
Woah, they have WAY too many waypoints. You could almost go everywhere without running lol. A few general waypoints would be fine...but geez they really must have some developers that hate to run even a few feet.
no you cant, on acount you must have the waypoints unlocked first.
I swear it's like they plucked this game from my head. I LOVE exploring....the first time. Once I've seen the world, I really don't feel like running back and forth through the same areas again just to complete a quest or whatnot. Love these features, and the scouting feature looks like a good way to keep tabs on the events, especially once you reach endgame and you just want something to do, rather than running around aimlessly hoping to find an active one.
I understand that to some people the fun is just that, wandering aimlessly. But that's not the case for many, perhaps even most. I think if that's what you're looking for, realistically, a sandbox would be more your flow. Something like Arch Age seems to be made specifically for that mindset.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Umm, there are still WAY too many. So they actually have to run around the zone once...the horror. And why would you need a mount if you can teleport literally everywhere after running there once. So much for an expansive immersive world...than again not sure that GW is too interested in making an expansive open world.
Scout system doesn't really bother me much though. Then again, not sure why you would need it if you can teleport every hundred yards haha.
Umm, there are still WAY too many. So they actually have to run around the zone once...the horror. And why would you need a mount if you can teleport literally everywhere after running there once. So much for an expansive immersive world...than again not sure that GW is too interested in making an expansive open world.
Scout system doesn't really bother me much though. Then again, not sure why you would need it if you can teleport every hundred yards haha.
also wrong, as they only exist in the built up areas and places that are not held by the enemy forces.
you still hve to walk to get to alot of the good places, or to help take other places back. also, you dont mount. at al, because mounts are retarded
An apologist is someone who defends a frequently critiqued action or system, in this case the implimentation of a waypoint system.
I find it difficult to fully buy into the whole "well, you don't have to use it if you don't want to" argument. I think there's still something to be said about the traditional, exciting experience of playing and coexisting with many other players in an MMO world. If, when a dynamic event ends and it's time for players to go their own way--many in the same direction back to a town or city--all my fellow players just suddenly start disappearing in front of me, leaving me to walk the lonely walk by myself back to town...that sense of virtual coexistence loses some of its luster. That is what I lament.
I agree that, to some extent, each player can play how he/she chooses. But this is an MMO, not a single player game. When everyone around me is using the waypoint feature, it does affect my experience of the game.
I've played quite a few games and most, hmmm, make that all of those, have some way of teleporting back to fixed points. Once you've discovered a point you can attune or bind yourself or your teleportation device to it and with a scroll or something like that, you can teleport back to that point. I'm struggling to think of a game that doesn't have any similar teleportation feature actually.
Games I know that do have mounts, also have the teleportation feature. I've grown quite accustomed to teleportation magic in Fantasy based MMO's and don't find it immersion breaking or anything else worth lamenting about, on the contrary.
If, for some reason, you want to go on a crusade against all the games that have this feature then be my guest. I'm not going to apologize for finding teleportation magic convenient in a Fantasy based game, no more than I'm going to apologize for that game having swords in it.
Edit: typo.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
I like riding around in mmorpgs, I've never gotten bored of it, even in games I've played for years. It's a big part of fun for me, and it makes the world feel a lot more immersive and believable when I actually need to GO somewhere and not just teleport everywhere I want to go, in GW2 I see a waypoint every couple of hundred meters so it's really silly after you have all the waypoints you wont ever see the scenery of already visited places unless you have something to do there or want to ZIPP there to remind how it looks.
You wont see people returning to city because they have waypoints there, or corssing the little in middle of nowhere town because they ZIPP over it. How are people even stumbling into dynamic events later on if they dont know/remember it was there and have no other purpose to be there, when they just ZIPP over it? Some fast travel it is when you are so fast you zoom through the battlefield without even noticing it. I feel it's more powergamer/lazyness feature and breaks the immersion some, there will be a lot of people appearing and disappearing out of nowhere in this game. Asuran portals are fine, every game has "travel points" - but if there's one in every big and medium city + mounts, is a bit different than a waypoint system with a waypoint practically everywhere in the game. Why make seamless big world if you're going to fraction it with waypoints? Maybe it's not so big and waypoints are a good way to make it feel like you travel a long distance? Not a gamebreaker, but very meh feature.
I also like riding around on a mount just to cruise through the scenery. When those mounts become an excuse for boring errand style quests, or worse when those mounts are cash shop only and the excuse for pay vs. boredom, then the love of mounts can take a dive quickly. While I like mounts, I also like waypoints. I sometimes have more problems with players pulling a horse out of their backpack than with players teleporting somewhere.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
Playing a videogame isn't a form of incredibly lazy leisure? You sit, like a potato, in front of a telly or desk, and you engage in mouse and keyboard use. Even the most physically active games which require insane amounts of manual dexterity still have us sitting in one place like spuds. Let's not fool ourselves about this. So to say that something in a game is lazy is an oxymoron, because when one comes home from work (paid, voluntary, what have you), the last then they want is to sit down in front of job #2. If you don't work in the first place then I guess that's fine. But some do, you know?
And let's be honest, when it comes down to it, most people lie through their teeth about mounts. It's not about using a mount to get anywhere, you can do that on foot, Guild Wars 2 provides you with a movement speed buff when your weapons are sheathed. So please, let's not bullshit around the bush, the primary desire for mounts is as a status symbol. You want to be bigger than the peasants, you want to stand tall, you want to be seen, you want to rub this in the face of people who don't have a mount, or a mount as big as yours. Mounts are e-peens. They were never anything else.
Welp, Guild Wars 2 isn't going to stroke your e-peen for you. There's a waypoint system and you can use it just like anyone else can. You can't enforce some insane form of videogame classism on people just because you have more time to play, more money to spend, or whatever else. There is a speed buff. You sheathe your weapons and you move faster. Everyone can do it. No, you can't have a status symbol, and no, you can't lie and provide other entirely faux reasons about wanting mounts because they can be seen right through.
Don't say that you want a mount to make you go faster, because again, Guild Wars 2 already has a speed buff, available to all players at any time. You can probably even use dodging to make yourself go that bit faster. But mounts are about no more than waving your superiority in a game in the face of someone who's just started. The lesser 'nubs.' The very reason that ArenaNet aren't including mounts is because they don't want people doing this.
Don't like it? There are other games out there. But for the love of all that's good, don't say it's lazy or come up with other ludicrously, obviously fake reasons for wanting mounts, I'm tired of the absurdity. At least don't be a coward and admit you just want it for the status symbol.
I'm tired of people coming up with increasingly more insane, unbeliavable, and escalatingly ridiculous reasons for wanting mounts. Just to avoid the real reason.
I'm not sure if you're just fooling around... If you're not, are you aware that putting words to other people's mouths, trying to talk them down and trying to disguise your opinions as universal truths just simply takes every % of your credibility away that you thought you had to begin with, just saying, being a too obvious raging fan does no good for you, nor the game.
Is it so damn hard to understand that most people who enjoys riding a mount does not give a crap about what the peasants or you think about their "status" when they are doing it.
Lets see Anet turn the Charr capital into a giant turd, and when people say how stupid of a move it was you can charge in and tell those idiots how insane, unbelievable, and escalatingly ridicilous they are to have an opinion against that jewel of innovation and originality.
I also like riding around on a mount just to cruise through the scenery. When those mounts become an excuse for boring errand style quests, or worse when those mounts are cash shop only and the excuse for pay vs. boredom, then the love of mounts can take a dive quickly. While I like mounts, I also like waypoints. I sometimes have more problems with players pulling a horse out of their backpack than with players teleporting somewhere.
And I like waypoints too, in cities, towns and other major locations, not few hundred meters away from eachothers though (in other words: everywhere). Past those major locations it's nice to ride. But yes, there will be waypoints everywhere instead and I'm happy for those who like that better, it's not a gamebreaker (I hope) so that's what I'll deal with too like everyone else.
Let's not go into the "pulling a mount from your backpack" because you will have so much gear and equipment in your backpacks anyway, that if you'd decide to pile them up next to you, the pile would be bigger than a horse.
wait a sec i have been thinking, and mounts make VERY little sense. Why oh why would the people of the guild wars world start using mounts in the industrial age and not durring their midevil era? second, i do not even think guild wars even HAS horses. Theird, and this is important, i dont think there is anything faster then the races, that they could even ride. Especcially the char, who are fast beasts who run on all fours, i could not see them riding on any other animal. it would look silly and feel retarded.
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President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I actually just found this, it's a little too short and a month old to be its own thread, but I thought you might appreciate it.
http://teamlegacy.net/topic/2632-gw2-fan-day-impression-of-exploration/
Also from the ArenaNet blog http://www.arena.net/blog/an-introduction-to-the-environment-art-of-guild-wars-2
Player exploration of Guild Wars 2 will be encouraged and rewarded, just as it was in the original Guild Wars. It’s up to the environment team to fill our game with memorable locations worthy of that exploration. A series of broken stone columns turns out to be a jumping puzzle to reach a hidden cave mouth overgrown with vines. The caved-in floor of a ruined fort drops you down several stories into a flooded subbasement haunted by the cursed ghosts of pirates. A hatch in the basement of a farmhouse conceals a tunnel to the cavern hideout of a bandit gang.
As if that isn't good enough, I feel compelled to link the next paragraph too
Players who enjoyed the lore of Guild Wars will find plenty of relics from our game’s history in the landscape of Guild Wars 2, sometimes tucked into surprising places. Upheaval and cataclysm left in the wake of dragons has twisted some familiar locations almost beyond recognition while sinking others underwater. Ideally, it should always be a short run to the next awe-inspiring vista, and unique landmarks should occur regularly enough for an explorer to navigate easily, even without resorting to the in-game map.
Just because there's fast travel doesn't mean there isn't going to be a hell of a lot of reason to explore in this game. Instead of spending 15 minutes just trying to meet up with your friend, meet them instantly and then go off into the woods. Sounds like there's a lot to find.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Those hearts you see on the map are not dynamic events. Dynamic events are not easily shown in the scout system.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
1. Agreed, I will stay away from them myself as well.
2. Age of Conan actually at least try with mounts. You get special attacks and so on from them, no special weapons like lances or anything but at least they tried. GW2 will have to do better than that and actually add knights and joust if they want to make me happy, I think it would be a great theme for an expansion.
I like the waypoint system but it looks to me that they have far too many waypoints, one for every city and village is enough for me.
I... didn't know about that at all. So basically, you can explore and find cool and interesting things, OR just teleport and get into the combat right away if that's what you want. That is truly awesome.
Thanks for sharing OP....
Sorry, you still have to explore. You unlock the waypoint when you explore, you can then teleport to them later if you want to instead of running there. They explained it in the video OP posted.
and this in a nutshell is why I want waypoints, and no mounts.
you must already explode, why would i want to rewalk the same path i already took? it does not sound fun to me to do that. and i dntwant mounts because it makes the world smaller, and you dont look at it the same way. running the whole thing should take time, and thats what the waypoints alloow you to do, they let you fill your map without having to run to every place you missed. you can argue that you could do it all in a sitting with a mount, but that is the thing i would want least. i want it to take time, u just dont want to retread ground i have seen many times before to do it
Oh I know that, I just mean that you can either go exploring specifically to find all these cool little environmental things, giving exploration some actual depth and meaning (which I didn't know would actually be the case in GW2, honestly), or basically just unlock waypoints and then use them to go from DE to DE, if full on, run-around-everywhere-and-explore-every-nook-and-cranny exploration really isn't your thing or you're just in the mood for some quick combat without the 30 minute to an hour hike to a level appropriate hunting ground ala early Everquest.
Don't forget about the Dynamic events that are not shown by scouts. There are hidden events such as ones where you have to swim into a lake and find a hidden cave that can spawn an enormous monster ( i'm going by memory here).
On top of this are traits which further customize your skills. These can be found by exploring the world too.
"You acquire traits by completing profession challenges scattered throughout the world. For instance, you walk into an inn and persuade a shadowy stranger into telling you a rumor about a mysterious tome full of arcane knowledge. Or you challenge a legendary swordmaster to a duel while exploring Divinity's Reach."
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/traits-overview/
Explore, Explore, Explore my good friend.
I like riding around in mmorpgs, I've never gotten bored of it, even in games I've played for years. It's a big part of fun for me, and it makes the world feel a lot more immersive and believable when I actually need to GO somewhere and not just teleport everywhere I want to go, in GW2 I see a waypoint every couple of hundred meters so it's really silly after you have all the waypoints you wont ever see the scenery of already visited places unless you have something to do there or want to ZIPP there to remind how it looks.
You wont see people returning to city because they have waypoints there, or corssing the little in middle of nowhere town because they ZIPP over it. How are people even stumbling into dynamic events later on if they dont know/remember it was there and have no other purpose to be there, when they just ZIPP over it? Some fast travel it is when you are so fast you zoom through the battlefield without even noticing it. I feel it's more powergamer/lazyness feature and breaks the immersion some, there will be a lot of people appearing and disappearing out of nowhere in this game. Asuran portals are fine, every game has "travel points" - but if there's one in every big and medium city + mounts, is a bit different than a waypoint system with a waypoint practically everywhere in the game. Why make seamless big world if you're going to fraction it with waypoints? Maybe it's not so big and waypoints are a good way to make it feel like you travel a long distance? Not a gamebreaker, but very meh feature.
Wow! What a response to my question!
Here are my thoughts about the scout system & waypoints.
I think that mounts would not be a gamebreaker, as long as they're only available at lvl 80. Also, I think that it wouldn't be bad if you can only get a mount when you've completely explored the world, or uncovered all the waypoints. This way, you'd have to explore the entire world before being able to "mount up". It would also make you more aware of how big the world actually is.
About the waypoints.. I rather like the idea of having plenty of waypoints. Why? Imagine you're doing an event, and in the middle of the event, you die. Wouldn't you rather have a waypoint close-by so don't have to run for 10 minutes just to get back to where you were? Plus, they don't come for free, so you'll actually have to be thinking of your gold when you're using them. Spamming them could empty your pockets quickly!
On a side note, thank you to everyone who thanked me for making the video! I'll be uploading a new video soon, so stay tuned!
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Check out my YouTube Channel for LOADS of info on Guild Wars 2!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TubeElephant
I think that's the problem with Mounts.
2) They are speed-boosters and nothing more, so you have:
i) Some players on foot and some on mounts speeding around. The design of the gameworld should be to be explored at a certain pace and notice things, getting distracted by things and generally adventuring imo. Then players at the same/similar pace should ideally connect up and travel around a bit together. The problem I've seen with mounts is they are so convenient ppl just stay on their mount and burn around the place like a mini-game of wipeout or something until a big event or such is worth dismounting for. That's my observation at least.
ii) If the devs work out the distances between things and time for players to move around from waypoints in concentric circles outwards they should be able to keep things more or less "hassle-reduced" in terms of making players run around once they have unlocked the next waypoint. Adding mounts and you have to cater for 2 different speeds of players and I'm not sure that's something I'd want to design for? Run rate is marginally faster eg sheathing weapons but the point of mounts is rate of movement feels significantly faster. But if Portals do that job of A-B and then movements are standard for everyone, think it solves the problem of removing the issue of "players running for hours" but keeps the designers jobs easier too about player movements around those waypoints?
iii) Mounts are not involved in combat so have limited utility other than transport. So unless that's added the above is a better decision imo.
iv) Back in the day, for immersion point of view, a steed was the equivalent of a Ferrari in terms of prestige, who could have one, afford one and upkeep the beast! If everyone has a steed (democratic) I feel the immersion is LESS with mounts than with waypoints with "Ferraris" burning around the countryside everywhere you look?
Even doing cartwheels halfway up a mountain or in the swamp... etc. For me Mounts immersion breakers.
I can see why others want Mounts but I'm happy without them until they are implemented in a superior form.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Only way I could tolerate mounts( which as ruined experience in lots of games) if if you could only rent them.
For instance, you run up to a town, and go to the stable boy and rent a mount, travel with it to wherever you want, and then the mount goes away.
An intant summon of a mount from middle of nowhere just makes the world way to small
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
...wait...
What now?
Playing a videogame isn't a form of incredibly lazy leisure? You sit, like a potato, in front of a telly or desk, and you engage in mouse and keyboard use. Even the most physically active games which require insane amounts of manual dexterity still have us sitting in one place like spuds. Let's not fool ourselves about this. So to say that something in a game is lazy is an oxymoron, because when one comes home from work (paid, voluntary, what have you), the last then they want is to sit down in front of job #2. If you don't work in the first place then I guess that's fine. But some do, you know?
And let's be honest, when it comes down to it, most people lie through their teeth about mounts. It's not about using a mount to get anywhere, you can do that on foot, Guild Wars 2 provides you with a movement speed buff when your weapons are sheathed. So please, let's not bullshit around the bush, the primary desire for mounts is as a status symbol. You want to be bigger than the peasants, you want to stand tall, you want to be seen, you want to rub this in the face of people who don't have a mount, or a mount as big as yours. Mounts are e-peens. They were never anything else.
Welp, Guild Wars 2 isn't going to stroke your e-peen for you. There's a waypoint system and you can use it just like anyone else can. You can't enforce some insane form of videogame classism on people just because you have more time to play, more money to spend, or whatever else. There is a speed buff. You sheathe your weapons and you move faster. Everyone can do it. No, you can't have a status symbol, and no, you can't lie and provide other entirely faux reasons about wanting mounts because they can be seen right through.
Don't say that you want a mount to make you go faster, because again, Guild Wars 2 already has a speed buff, available to all players at any time. You can probably even use dodging to make yourself go that bit faster. But mounts are about no more than waving your superiority in a game in the face of someone who's just started. The lesser 'nubs.' The very reason that ArenaNet aren't including mounts is because they don't want people doing this.
Don't like it? There are other games out there. But for the love of all that's good, don't say it's lazy or come up with other ludicrously, obviously fake reasons for wanting mounts, I'm tired of the absurdity. At least don't be a coward and admit you just want it for the status symbol.
I'm tired of people coming up with increasingly more insane, unbeliavable, and escalatingly ridiculous reasons for wanting mounts. Just to avoid the real reason.
Woah, they have WAY too many waypoints. You could almost go everywhere without running lol. A few general waypoints would be fine...but geez they really must have some developers that hate to run even a few feet.
no you cant, on acount you must have the waypoints unlocked first.
I swear it's like they plucked this game from my head. I LOVE exploring....the first time. Once I've seen the world, I really don't feel like running back and forth through the same areas again just to complete a quest or whatnot. Love these features, and the scouting feature looks like a good way to keep tabs on the events, especially once you reach endgame and you just want something to do, rather than running around aimlessly hoping to find an active one.
I understand that to some people the fun is just that, wandering aimlessly. But that's not the case for many, perhaps even most. I think if that's what you're looking for, realistically, a sandbox would be more your flow. Something like Arch Age seems to be made specifically for that mindset.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Umm, there are still WAY too many. So they actually have to run around the zone once...the horror. And why would you need a mount if you can teleport literally everywhere after running there once. So much for an expansive immersive world...than again not sure that GW is too interested in making an expansive open world.
Scout system doesn't really bother me much though. Then again, not sure why you would need it if you can teleport every hundred yards haha.
also wrong, as they only exist in the built up areas and places that are not held by the enemy forces.
you still hve to walk to get to alot of the good places, or to help take other places back. also, you dont mount. at al, because mounts are retarded
I've played quite a few games and most, hmmm, make that all of those, have some way of teleporting back to fixed points. Once you've discovered a point you can attune or bind yourself or your teleportation device to it and with a scroll or something like that, you can teleport back to that point. I'm struggling to think of a game that doesn't have any similar teleportation feature actually.
Games I know that do have mounts, also have the teleportation feature. I've grown quite accustomed to teleportation magic in Fantasy based MMO's and don't find it immersion breaking or anything else worth lamenting about, on the contrary.
If, for some reason, you want to go on a crusade against all the games that have this feature then be my guest. I'm not going to apologize for finding teleportation magic convenient in a Fantasy based game, no more than I'm going to apologize for that game having swords in it.
Edit: typo.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
I also like riding around on a mount just to cruise through the scenery. When those mounts become an excuse for boring errand style quests, or worse when those mounts are cash shop only and the excuse for pay vs. boredom, then the love of mounts can take a dive quickly. While I like mounts, I also like waypoints. I sometimes have more problems with players pulling a horse out of their backpack than with players teleporting somewhere.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
I'm not sure if you're just fooling around... If you're not, are you aware that putting words to other people's mouths, trying to talk them down and trying to disguise your opinions as universal truths just simply takes every % of your credibility away that you thought you had to begin with, just saying, being a too obvious raging fan does no good for you, nor the game.
Is it so damn hard to understand that most people who enjoys riding a mount does not give a crap about what the peasants or you think about their "status" when they are doing it.
Lets see Anet turn the Charr capital into a giant turd, and when people say how stupid of a move it was you can charge in and tell those idiots how insane, unbelievable, and escalatingly ridicilous they are to have an opinion against that jewel of innovation and originality.
And I like waypoints too, in cities, towns and other major locations, not few hundred meters away from eachothers though (in other words: everywhere). Past those major locations it's nice to ride. But yes, there will be waypoints everywhere instead and I'm happy for those who like that better, it's not a gamebreaker (I hope) so that's what I'll deal with too like everyone else.
Let's not go into the "pulling a mount from your backpack" because you will have so much gear and equipment in your backpacks anyway, that if you'd decide to pile them up next to you, the pile would be bigger than a horse.
wait a sec i have been thinking, and mounts make VERY little sense. Why oh why would the people of the guild wars world start using mounts in the industrial age and not durring their midevil era? second, i do not even think guild wars even HAS horses. Theird, and this is important, i dont think there is anything faster then the races, that they could even ride. Especcially the char, who are fast beasts who run on all fours, i could not see them riding on any other animal. it would look silly and feel retarded.