Originally posted by Foomerang Anet is targeting this audience. Im not going to go into great detail about the particular nature of this target audience (sick of getting banned). But they are catering to a demographic that will be satisfied with no monthly fee and the ability to pick up and play any time they want. Take a year off, come back and still be competitive. I can only speculate the type of community that brings. But I will tell you rightnow, GW2 is not a long term mmo for me. It will be one of the side games that I play from time to time. And the beauty of it is that is how the game is being made.
Foomerang, it pains me to know that you think so little of my demographic that you cannot describe it but in terms that would get you banned. But I will state that I expect GW2 to be my only MMO, for the lifetime of the game. GW1 has been my only constant MMO for as long as I've played it, which is going on six years. It is also the only MMO my RL friends and guild are still playing. I have only tried other MMOs out of curiousity, or to find a game I could play with my then partner now husband (who is now playing GW1 with me and will be migrating to GW2 with me so now I have no need of them). But yes, the ability to get busy with other matters and be able to leave the game for a period of time without having to calculate when my subscription is up, and return without paying or being at a disadvantage, is a feature I value. I'm not sure why it shouldn't be.
You are not the type of gamer who plays an MMO for a few months then bails. You stick to it and call it your home. Im sorry that you thought I was talking about you, I was in fact talking about the opposite end of the spectrum. People who go through mmos like a swarm of locusts, taking everything they can find and leaving nothing behind. They move from mmo to mmo. ToR will get hit hard so will gw2. But the fact is that GW2 is built to cater to these types of gamers moreso than the immersion addicts. You arent that type of gamer but you are going to play GW2 for the longhaul, I respect that. I do the same thing. Screw the rules and play the game how you want to play it
Some people won't be attracted to GW2. Some people think they love mindless raiding, because there are so few alternatives, but once they try out GW2 they will enjoy it.
If someone is happy giving up their life to make sure they can attend raids every other night at 7pm to get some new cool shiny, then by all means don't stop. There are hundreds of games that cater to this.
Some people just want a game we can log into, group with others, kill some people in pvp, and sign off without having to worry that we need to log in every single night to remain competitve. It may be hard for some people to understand.
Originally posted by Golelorn Some people won't be attracted to GW2. Some people think they love mindless raiding, because there are so few alternatives, but once they try out GW2 they will enjoy it. If someone is happy giving up their life to make sure they can attend raids every other night at 7pm to get some new cool shiny, then by all means don't stop. There are hundreds of games that cater to this. Some people just want a game we can log into, group with others, kill some people in pvp, and sign off without having to worry that we need to log in every single night to remain competitve. It may be hard for some people to understand.
Not at all hard to understand actually. I do this with every casual mmo I play. Whats hard to understand is why people think they cant do this until GW2 comes out.
To the OP, in the end it really won't matter. If the game goes 6 months without gear packs appearing in the cash shop I'll be surprised.
If by "gear packs" you mean +stats gear rather than costumes or other appearance-only items, it is of course your prerogative to think that ArenaNet would forfeit the sales and support of its existing fanbase for the nebuluous benefits of completely selling out its company philosophy.
I mean, it couldn't possibly hurt their image or sink their brand any more than "Bears, bears, bears" did Mythic's, could it? Hmmmm.
Eh, arenanet sells gear packs now. Why wouldn't they sell gear or skill packs with GW2?
No need; they only sell items for PvP-only characters in GW1, since PvP-only characters cannot obtain items and skills through PvE. PvP-only characters don't exist in GW2 since you'll have access to all max-level skills and gear upon entering structured PvP at any time.
By MaskedWeasel
I've never bought anything from the GW shop, but from what the FAQs say, skill unlocks are for both PvE and PvP, no telling about the gear. As far as I know there are still trainers in GW2. We do know they'll have a cash shop.. what they'll sell, well, we'll just have to wait and see.
RassMan
The GW2 cash shop will consist of Transmute stones, and Cosmetic Items (So no stat gear!) ANet said in GW2 people who buy things in the cash shop will have no advantage over people who don't buy things in the cash shop
Some people won't be attracted to GW2. Some people think they love mindless raiding, because there are so few alternatives, but once they try out GW2 they will enjoy it.
If someone is happy giving up their life to make sure they can attend raids every other night at 7pm to get some new cool shiny, then by all means don't stop. There are hundreds of games that cater to this.
Some people just want a game we can log into, group with others, kill some people in pvp, and sign off without having to worry that we need to log in every single night to remain competitve. It may be hard for some people to understand.
Not at all hard to understand actually. I do this with every casual mmo I play. Whats hard to understand is why people think they cant do this until GW2 comes out.
Exactly, not everyone logs into an MMO to be competitive...
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
* This outcome RELIES upon the assumption that a majority of players will leave after three months, meaning that a MAJORITY of players in an MMO are those who consume content at a high rate, do not like to roll alts, etc. Please note that going to low-level areas and scaling down is NOT the same as "revisiting" content with a main character, because of the variety in Dynamic Events, explorable dungeons, and the 5 racial stories plus 3 storyline factions.
Which has been the case for many games the last few years, strong intial numbers that fade ever so quickly around the third month or so. This is as much a problem for GW2 as it is for TOR to overcome. I like the way foomerang put it, i've used a similar phrase before, there are a large amount of players who hit these games like a swarm of locusts. Who consume all they can and jump ship.
There will always be those who stick around, they often form tight communities too. Which is great, the problem is word on the forums and other outlets gets around, that the game is dead and many avoid it like the plague.
I'd love to see both games break that trend and offer enough substance to keep most players happy, and sustain a decent sized audience for a prolonged amount of time.
A-net is no better off than anyone else in this regard, not even considering the game is B2p. It still needs a decently sized audience to be successful.
Like I said before this is only one possibility though, there are so many other possibilities I'm not sure why this one got so many pages of debate.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Anet is targeting this audience. Im not going to go into great detail about the particular nature of this target audience (sick of getting banned). But they are catering to a demographic that will be satisfied with no monthly fee and the ability to pick up and play any time they want. Take a year off, come back and still be competitive. I can only speculate the type of community that brings. But I will tell you rightnow, GW2 is not a long term mmo for me. It will be one of the side games that I play from time to time. And the beauty of it is that is how the game is being made.
Foomerang, it pains me to know that you think so little of my demographic that you cannot describe it but in terms that would get you banned. But I will state that I expect GW2 to be my only MMO, for the lifetime of the game. GW1 has been my only constant MMO for as long as I've played it, which is going on six years. It is also the only MMO my RL friends and guild are still playing. I have only tried other MMOs out of curiousity, or to find a game I could play with my then partner now husband (who is now playing GW1 with me and will be migrating to GW2 with me so now I have no need of them).
But yes, the ability to get busy with other matters and be able to leave the game for a period of time without having to calculate when my subscription is up, and return without paying or being at a disadvantage, is a feature I value. I'm not sure why it shouldn't be.
You are not the type of gamer who plays an MMO for a few months then bails. You stick to it and call it your home. Im sorry that you thought I was talking about you, I was in fact talking about the opposite end of the spectrum. People who go through mmos like a swarm of locusts, taking everything they can find and leaving nothing behind. They move from mmo to mmo. ToR will get hit hard so will gw2. But the fact is that GW2 is built to cater to these types of gamers moreso than the immersion addicts. You arent that type of gamer but you are going to play GW2 for the longhaul, I respect that. I do the same thing. Screw the rules and play the game how you want to play it
Just because a person didnt stick to an MMO, doesnt make them less of a player if thats what your trying to say.
If thats not your intention then dotn call people a swarm of lucusts.
From what Ive seen the majority of people who leave MMOs do so because they didnt feel immersed in the first place. Its the games job to immerse us in the game world and to keep us captivated by it, if the game fails to do this the player can not be blamed for leaving the boring experience.
Pretty much every MMO on the market fails at immersion due to the use of text to tell story and give reason. Questing in and of its self is a boring task that is only given context if you take the time to actually read the story behind each one. Most players cannot be bothered with this and thus lose interest in MMOs right away, why? Because the game couldnt immerse them.
Guild Wars 2 isnt shifting to cater one or the other, they are changing the very core of what the MMO is to suit both groups. Players who couldnt find themselves getting immersed in an MMO filled with text and stagnant combat will enjoy Guild Wars 2 because Its removed huge text walls and replaced it with actual dialogue and a much more exciting combat system.
These things are also there for players like you to enjoy, but they are made to be of such a high quality that both you and the people who couldnt be bothered with old MMO style content could enjoy.
I would suggest reading up on the different races on the main website, as well as the articles about them. Sylvari week just finished and it really immerses you with its lore and with the creation of the race.
TS sound like a WoW gear grinding addict trying to adapt to cosmetic gear system. ---> SW:ToR have gear grinding (hope u find what ur looking for)
he's a TOR fan(Distopia's tag team partner). the funny thing is there won't be much of a gear grind in TOR. they make sure every player get's a piece of loot from the raid every time(that is what loot chest does right?), so it won't take long to get all the gear you need from it.
also, i'll just point out that there seems to be some confusion among the fans and trolls alike...GW2 has power creep and gear progression. you do not get the bulk of your damage stats from gear like WoW, but the stat bonuses, health, armor and base damage is still going to be better on higher level gear. you won't be very effective holding on to a lvl 8 sword for the whole game without upgrading it and transmuting it.
so basically if i find a look i like in gw2 im done? then I can do dungeons for no other reason than the fun factor? I typically enjoy doing dungeons or raids once. If they have multiple paths, i do them all until Ive done everything about them one time. I typically burn through this type of content in a matter of a few days. Whats going to keep me playing gw2 after Ive seen it all in the first few months?
Nothing. You would then have paid a game worth $60. Arenanet could care less how long you stay hooked.
You would leave. After all, why continue playing a game if you're not having a fun? Some day, you can come back to GW2 again all for the price of - nothing. Unless, of course, there is a new expansion you have to go purchase. But what would the point of buying the expansion if you would just burn through it again? You would be a fool to fall for the same "trick" twice.
Should you continue your purchase, you won't even need to play catch up with new higher-stat gear because, frankly speaking, it won't exist. Then again, maybe you'll find a new look in that expansion. If not, then that would be most unfortunate for you.
For this game, you get what you pay for. Hopefully, you're basing your purchase not for the stats or the fluff you may get in the game, but for the entertainment it would give you. And for your sake, I hope it would be worth the investment of your time and money.
Is that in relation to this thread? Because I think you misunderstood. But yeah, Im not a fan of repeating pve content at all.
Yes. Yes it is. People are pretty much saying what I said, even if it's not particularly you. There are people who seem to think that without an enforced grind, games are lacking proper MMO content. I say if that's what MMO content is, raid grinds and such, the MMO genre should wither to a niche market so a worthwhile game type can come out for my amusement.
Originally posted by Distopia
If you don't want to run dungeons over and over for carrotts, why would you want to for nothing?
I want to play a game because I'm enjoying it. I'm not really amused or fooled by long drawn out gear grinds. Actually, that's pretty much my point (Just in reverse). If I don't want to repeat content, then adding in carrots and penalizing me for doing so (By keeping me subpar in performance compared to my more dedicated MMO brethren) is only going to make me quit the game because they're forcing me to spend time doing repetitive tasks for low pay. If I wanted to do that, I'd work a second job at McDonalds and make real money at least.
Originally posted by Distopia
A-net is no better off than anyone else in this regard, not even considering the game is B2p. It still needs a decently sized audience to be successful.
I'm just going to say right here that I obviously don't disagree with you all the time, because I completely agree with this statement.
In fact, I agree with it SO much, I'm uncertain why so many people insist that Arenanet is going to adopt a policy where they create a game that people burn through and throw to the side to languish in a pile of dust with less successful single player games.
Arenanet needs players. WvWvW will blow without a pretty consistent playerbase. Their dynamic events will feel dead with just a few people wandering lonely tumbleweed strewn battlefields.
They'll have a hard time getting anybody to buy from the cashshop if they're not even playing.
The more people playing, the more people who will get their friends to come play with them, which means more box sales.
The more people actively playing, the more likely people are to pick up expansions, because they had such an amazingly badass experience.
For Arenanet, making as much replayability and incentive to keep people in the game as they can within their particular philosophies (Like no gear grind) is pretty darn important. So hopefully when I play GW2, the game will reflect that, and I'll be able to spend as much blissful B2P time within it as I can, and they can get their extra money from me when I decide to dabble in their cash shop, buy more merchandise, or arm twist my friends into buying a copy and joining me.
TS sound like a WoW gear grinding addict trying to adapt to cosmetic gear system. ---> SW:ToR have gear grinding (hope u find what ur looking for)
he's a TOR fan(Distopia's tag team partner). the funny thing is there won't be much of a gear grind in TOR. they make sure every player get's a piece of loot from the raid every time(that is what loot chest does right?), so it won't take long to get all the gear you need from it.
No, that's not true at all. In SWTOR you are guaranteed a loot bag which may contain a piece of gear but can also obtain things like credits, materials, gear badges, etc.
Considering that SWTOR is taking most of it's actual gameplay elements from previous MMO's, I wouldn't be surprised if they also adopted similar probabilities of getting gear from a loot bag.
The only difference is that you are at aleast guaranteed something from doing group content.
If you don't want to run dungeons over and over for carrotts, why would you want to for nothing?
I want to play a game because I'm enjoying it. I'm not really amused or fooled by long drawn out gear grinds. Actually, that's pretty much my point (Just in reverse). If I don't want to repeat content, then adding in carrots and penalizing me for doing so (By keeping me subpar in performance compared to my more dedicated MMO brethren) is only going to make me quit the game because they're forcing me to spend time doing repetitive tasks for low pay. If I wanted to do that, I'd work a second job at McDonalds and make real money at least.
Yeah, basically how I feel about gear grinds as well.
Originally posted by Distopia
A-net is no better off than anyone else in this regard, not even considering the game is B2p. It still needs a decently sized audience to be successful.
I'm just going to say right here that I obviously don't disagree with you all the time, because I completely agree with this statement.
In fact, I agree with it SO much, I'm uncertain why so many people insist that Arenanet is going to adopt a policy where they create a game that people burn through and throw to the side to languish in a pile of dust with less successful single player games.
Arenanet needs players. WvWvW will blow without a pretty consistent playerbase. Their dynamic events will feel dead with just a few people wandering lonely tumbleweed strewn battlefields.
They'll have a hard time getting anybody to buy from the cashshop if they're not even playing.
The more people playing, the more people who will get their friends to come play with them, which means more box sales.
The more people actively playing, the more likely people are to pick up expansions, because they had such an amazingly badass experience.
For Arenanet, making as much replayability and incentive to keep people in the game as they can within their particular philosophies (Like no gear grind) is pretty darn important. So hopefully when I play GW2, the game will reflect that, and I'll be able to spend as much blissful B2P time within it as I can, and they can get their extra money from me when I decide to dabble in their cash shop, buy more merchandise, or arm twist my friends into buying a copy and joining me.
Great post Meow, this is all I was trying to say in all of my posts in this thread, you're far more eloquent than I though, so you simply just said it better.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
PvEwise you just don't go into the dungeons and get them done with random group and just get the look of item you wanted and then ur done with the game.
They are not that easy, AT ALL. You just don't go there and get it done with
Also there will be high lvl area which contains hard/massive dynamic events
Originally posted by fony Originally posted by channel84 TS sound like a WoW gear grinding addict trying to adapt to cosmetic gear system. ---> SW:ToR have gear grinding (hope u find what ur looking for)
he's a TOR fan(Distopia's tag team partner). the funny thing is there won't be much of a gear grind in TOR. they make sure every player get's a piece of loot from the raid every time(that is what loot chest does right?), so it won't take long to get all the gear you need from it.
also, i'll just point out that there seems to be some confusion among the fans and trolls alike...GW2 has power creep and gear progression. you do not get the bulk of your damage stats from gear like WoW, but the stat bonuses, health, armor and base damage is still going to be better on higher level gear. you won't be very effective holding on to a lvl 8 sword for the whole game without upgrading it and transmuting it. Theres no hidden agenda here. Im asking about grind in GW2. Some people have claimed it saves us from the grind which is great, but how exactly? Turns out in fact it does not really get rid of grind, it just makes it optional. So if you want to grind and get cool looking gear you can. If you dont want to grind you can have less flashy gear i guess? But you will still remain competitive. So in essence, GW2 has nothing to keep you playing except for amazingly fun content and the people you meet. That is awesome. Finally an honest approach to earning your dollar. But it does make sense why they arent charging a monthly fee (along with low server cost). Unfortunately, action mmos dont hold my attention for longer than a couple months. But thats ok, i can always drop in from time to time and be right back into the thick of things.
TS sound like a WoW gear grinding addict trying to adapt to cosmetic gear system. ---> SW:ToR have gear grinding (hope u find what ur looking for)
he's a TOR fan(Distopia's tag team partner). the funny thing is there won't be much of a gear grind in TOR. they make sure every player get's a piece of loot from the raid every time(that is what loot chest does right?), so it won't take long to get all the gear you need from it.
also, i'll just point out that there seems to be some confusion among the fans and trolls alike...GW2 has power creep and gear progression. you do not get the bulk of your damage stats from gear like WoW, but the stat bonuses, health, armor and base damage is still going to be better on higher level gear. you won't be very effective holding on to a lvl 8 sword for the whole game without upgrading it and transmuting it.
TOR fan? I'm interested in TOR yes, however how can anyone be a fan of something they haven't experienced in action?
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Originally posted by Failth PvEwise you just don't go into the dungeons and get them done with random group and just get the look of item you wanted and then ur done with the game.
They are not that easy, AT ALL. You just don't go there and get it done with Also there will be high lvl area which contains hard/massive dynamic events
this is a casual mmo. those dungeons may in fact start out hard. but sooner than later they will be dumbed down for the masses.
PvEwise you just don't go into the dungeons and get them done with random group and just get the look of item you wanted and then ur done with the game.
They are not that easy, AT ALL. You just don't go there and get it done with
Also there will be high lvl area which contains hard/massive dynamic events
this is a casual mmo. those dungeons may in fact start out hard. but sooner than later they will be dumbed down for the masses.
They did say they were going to make some activities extremely difficult, to challenge people.
If they make even the hardest dungeons easy, and the elite events easy, then there won't be any way for upper level players to challenge themselves. I would think that would be a mistake...
PvEwise you just don't go into the dungeons and get them done with random group and just get the look of item you wanted and then ur done with the game.
They are not that easy, AT ALL. You just don't go there and get it done with
Also there will be high lvl area which contains hard/massive dynamic events
this is a casual mmo. those dungeons may in fact start out hard. but sooner than later they will be dumbed down for the masses.
{mod edit}
Please explain how the orginal question is a "troll" question? Seems to be a pretty fair question to me. A reason to grind is a reason to grind, be it for looks or power.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
PvEwise you just don't go into the dungeons and get them done with random group and just get the look of item you wanted and then ur done with the game.
They are not that easy, AT ALL. You just don't go there and get it done with
Also there will be high lvl area which contains hard/massive dynamic events
this is a casual mmo. those dungeons may in fact start out hard. but sooner than later they will be dumbed down for the masses.
You have a basic misunderstanding about GW2 and ANet's approach to it.
It's B2P meaning they don't care if millions of players log in daily to grind for dungeons because there's no sub money that would warrant keeping people in a perpetual hamster wheel chasing that carrot. If they want to they can make end game dungeons hard as nails because there's no "every mouth breather has to be able to finish it" rule that would make it easier for people to justify paying their monthly subs by making them feel like they're accomplishing something. You bought the game? ANet has your financial contribution, how you decide to play it from that point on depends on your skills and time.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
You have a basic misunderstanding about GW2 and ANet's approach to it.
It's B2P meaning they don't care if millions of players log in daily to grind for dungeons because there's no sub money that would warrant keeping people in a perpetual hamster wheel chasing that carrot. If they want to they can make end game dungeons hard as nails because there's no "every mouth breather has to be able to finish it" rule that would make it easier for people to justify paying their monthly subs by making them feel like they're accomplishing something. You bought the game? ANet has your financial contribution, how you decide to play it from that point on depends on your skills and time.
I can't get behind this logic, they don't care if people continue to play or not? That makes no logical sense when you're creating a game that's supposed to be an MMO.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
You have a basic misunderstanding about GW2 and ANet's approach to it.
It's B2P meaning they don't care if millions of players log in daily to grind for dungeons because there's no sub money that would warrant keeping people in a perpetual hamster wheel chasing that carrot. If they want to they can make end game dungeons hard as nails because there's no "every mouth breather has to be able to finish it" rule that would make it easier for people to justify paying their monthly subs by making them feel like they're accomplishing something. You bought the game? ANet has your financial contribution, how you decide to play it from that point on depends on your skills and time.
I can't get behind this logic, they don't care if people continue to play or not? That makes no logical sense when you're creating a game that's supposed to be an MMO.
Perhaps I worded it too harshly because I didn't literary mean they have a "HA HA HA we don't give a damn whether you play or not, we have your money already" stand on gamers.
What I meant to say is that they'll let the game quality speak for itself in order to keep the old players/attract new players, not some arbitrary game-lengthening changes that are basically in place to enforce subscriptions. High EXP requirements for leveling up? Grindy crafting? End-game dungeons that require double digit runs to even get a feeling you're accomplishing something? All cleverly thought design choices to go hand in hand with subscription.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't need any of that because of its B2P nature. Also, fact that there's no subscription and majority of the income comes from the expansions kinda puts pressure on ANet to, ya know, make GOOD expansions to warrant sales because there's no "safe money" that will somehow find its way into their pockets.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Perhaps I worded it too harshly because I didn't literary mean they have a "HA HA HA we don't give a damn whether you play or not, we have your money already" stand on gamers.
What I meant to say is that they'll let the game quality speak for itself in order to keep the old players/attract new players, not some arbitrary game-lengthening changes that are basically in place to enforce subscriptions. High EXP requirements for leveling up? Grindy crafting? End-game dungeons that require double digit runs to even get a feeling you're accomplishing something? All cleverly thought design choices to go hand in hand with subscription.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't need any of that because of its B2P nature. Also, fact that there's no subscription and majority of the income comes from the expansions kinda puts pressure on ANet to, ya know, make GOOD expansions to warrant sales because there's no "safe money" that will somehow find its way into their pockets.
Yeah that makes a lot more sense . Hopefully those things are done away with in the future by all mmo companies, replaced by aspects that keep people playing to have fun rather than accomplish...
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Oh I know the first thing that comes to peoples mind when they read that question. The difference is the competitive nature of gear grinding. However, there is another side to that coin, vanity...
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Comments
Some people won't be attracted to GW2. Some people think they love mindless raiding, because there are so few alternatives, but once they try out GW2 they will enjoy it.
If someone is happy giving up their life to make sure they can attend raids every other night at 7pm to get some new cool shiny, then by all means don't stop. There are hundreds of games that cater to this.
Some people just want a game we can log into, group with others, kill some people in pvp, and sign off without having to worry that we need to log in every single night to remain competitve. It may be hard for some people to understand.
Exactly, not everyone logs into an MMO to be competitive...
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
Which has been the case for many games the last few years, strong intial numbers that fade ever so quickly around the third month or so. This is as much a problem for GW2 as it is for TOR to overcome. I like the way foomerang put it, i've used a similar phrase before, there are a large amount of players who hit these games like a swarm of locusts. Who consume all they can and jump ship.
There will always be those who stick around, they often form tight communities too. Which is great, the problem is word on the forums and other outlets gets around, that the game is dead and many avoid it like the plague.
I'd love to see both games break that trend and offer enough substance to keep most players happy, and sustain a decent sized audience for a prolonged amount of time.
A-net is no better off than anyone else in this regard, not even considering the game is B2p. It still needs a decently sized audience to be successful.
Like I said before this is only one possibility though, there are so many other possibilities I'm not sure why this one got so many pages of debate.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
Just because a person didnt stick to an MMO, doesnt make them less of a player if thats what your trying to say.
If thats not your intention then dotn call people a swarm of lucusts.
From what Ive seen the majority of people who leave MMOs do so because they didnt feel immersed in the first place. Its the games job to immerse us in the game world and to keep us captivated by it, if the game fails to do this the player can not be blamed for leaving the boring experience.
Pretty much every MMO on the market fails at immersion due to the use of text to tell story and give reason. Questing in and of its self is a boring task that is only given context if you take the time to actually read the story behind each one. Most players cannot be bothered with this and thus lose interest in MMOs right away, why? Because the game couldnt immerse them.
Guild Wars 2 isnt shifting to cater one or the other, they are changing the very core of what the MMO is to suit both groups. Players who couldnt find themselves getting immersed in an MMO filled with text and stagnant combat will enjoy Guild Wars 2 because Its removed huge text walls and replaced it with actual dialogue and a much more exciting combat system.
These things are also there for players like you to enjoy, but they are made to be of such a high quality that both you and the people who couldnt be bothered with old MMO style content could enjoy.
I would suggest reading up on the different races on the main website, as well as the articles about them. Sylvari week just finished and it really immerses you with its lore and with the creation of the race.
TS sound like a WoW gear grinding addict trying to adapt to cosmetic gear system. ---> SW:ToR have gear grinding (hope u find what ur looking for)
he's a TOR fan(Distopia's tag team partner). the funny thing is there won't be much of a gear grind in TOR. they make sure every player get's a piece of loot from the raid every time(that is what loot chest does right?), so it won't take long to get all the gear you need from it.
also, i'll just point out that there seems to be some confusion among the fans and trolls alike...GW2 has power creep and gear progression. you do not get the bulk of your damage stats from gear like WoW, but the stat bonuses, health, armor and base damage is still going to be better on higher level gear. you won't be very effective holding on to a lvl 8 sword for the whole game without upgrading it and transmuting it.
Nothing. You would then have paid a game worth $60. Arenanet could care less how long you stay hooked.
You would leave. After all, why continue playing a game if you're not having a fun? Some day, you can come back to GW2 again all for the price of - nothing. Unless, of course, there is a new expansion you have to go purchase. But what would the point of buying the expansion if you would just burn through it again? You would be a fool to fall for the same "trick" twice.
Should you continue your purchase, you won't even need to play catch up with new higher-stat gear because, frankly speaking, it won't exist. Then again, maybe you'll find a new look in that expansion. If not, then that would be most unfortunate for you.
For this game, you get what you pay for. Hopefully, you're basing your purchase not for the stats or the fluff you may get in the game, but for the entertainment it would give you. And for your sake, I hope it would be worth the investment of your time and money.
Yes. Yes it is. People are pretty much saying what I said, even if it's not particularly you.
There are people who seem to think that without an enforced grind, games are lacking proper MMO content. I say if that's what MMO content is, raid grinds and such, the MMO genre should wither to a niche market so a worthwhile game type can come out for my amusement. 
I want to play a game because I'm enjoying it. I'm not really amused or fooled by long drawn out gear grinds. Actually, that's pretty much my point (Just in reverse). If I don't want to repeat content, then adding in carrots and penalizing me for doing so (By keeping me subpar in performance compared to my more dedicated MMO brethren) is only going to make me quit the game because they're forcing me to spend time doing repetitive tasks for low pay. If I wanted to do that, I'd work a second job at McDonalds and make real money at least.
I'm just going to say right here that I obviously don't disagree with you all the time, because I completely agree with this statement.
In fact, I agree with it SO much, I'm uncertain why so many people insist that Arenanet is going to adopt a policy where they create a game that people burn through and throw to the side to languish in a pile of dust with less successful single player games.
Arenanet needs players. WvWvW will blow without a pretty consistent playerbase. Their dynamic events will feel dead with just a few people wandering lonely tumbleweed strewn battlefields.
They'll have a hard time getting anybody to buy from the cashshop if they're not even playing.
The more people playing, the more people who will get their friends to come play with them, which means more box sales.
The more people actively playing, the more likely people are to pick up expansions, because they had such an amazingly badass experience.
For Arenanet, making as much replayability and incentive to keep people in the game as they can within their particular philosophies (Like no gear grind) is pretty darn important. So hopefully when I play GW2, the game will reflect that, and I'll be able to spend as much blissful B2P time within it as I can, and they can get their extra money from me when I decide to dabble in their cash shop, buy more merchandise, or arm twist my friends into buying a copy and joining me.
No, that's not true at all. In SWTOR you are guaranteed a loot bag which may contain a piece of gear but can also obtain things like credits, materials, gear badges, etc.
Considering that SWTOR is taking most of it's actual gameplay elements from previous MMO's, I wouldn't be surprised if they also adopted similar probabilities of getting gear from a loot bag.
The only difference is that you are at aleast guaranteed something from doing group content.
Great post Meow, this is all I was trying to say in all of my posts in this thread, you're far more eloquent than I though, so you simply just said it better.
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SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
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PvEwise you just don't go into the dungeons and get them done with random group and just get the look of item you wanted and then ur done with the game.
They are not that easy, AT ALL. You just don't go there and get it done with
Also there will be high lvl area which contains hard/massive dynamic events
also, i'll just point out that there seems to be some confusion among the fans and trolls alike...GW2 has power creep and gear progression. you do not get the bulk of your damage stats from gear like WoW, but the stat bonuses, health, armor and base damage is still going to be better on higher level gear. you won't be very effective holding on to a lvl 8 sword for the whole game without upgrading it and transmuting it.
Theres no hidden agenda here. Im asking about grind in GW2. Some people have claimed it saves us from the grind which is great, but how exactly? Turns out in fact it does not really get rid of grind, it just makes it optional. So if you want to grind and get cool looking gear you can. If you dont want to grind you can have less flashy gear i guess? But you will still remain competitive.
So in essence, GW2 has nothing to keep you playing except for amazingly fun content and the people you meet. That is awesome. Finally an honest approach to earning your dollar. But it does make sense why they arent charging a monthly fee (along with low server cost). Unfortunately, action mmos dont hold my attention for longer than a couple months. But thats ok, i can always drop in from time to time and be right back into the thick of things.
TOR fan? I'm interested in TOR yes, however how can anyone be a fan of something they haven't experienced in action?
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SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
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They did say they were going to make some activities extremely difficult, to challenge people.
If they make even the hardest dungeons easy, and the elite events easy, then there won't be any way for upper level players to challenge themselves. I would think that would be a mistake...
Please explain how the orginal question is a "troll" question? Seems to be a pretty fair question to me. A reason to grind is a reason to grind, be it for looks or power.
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You have a basic misunderstanding about GW2 and ANet's approach to it.
It's B2P meaning they don't care if millions of players log in daily to grind for dungeons because there's no sub money that would warrant keeping people in a perpetual hamster wheel chasing that carrot. If they want to they can make end game dungeons hard as nails because there's no "every mouth breather has to be able to finish it" rule that would make it easier for people to justify paying their monthly subs by making them feel like they're accomplishing something. You bought the game? ANet has your financial contribution, how you decide to play it from that point on depends on your skills and time.
I can't get behind this logic, they don't care if people continue to play or not? That makes no logical sense when you're creating a game that's supposed to be an MMO.
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SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
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What I meant to say is that they'll let the game quality speak for itself in order to keep the old players/attract new players, not some arbitrary game-lengthening changes that are basically in place to enforce subscriptions. High EXP requirements for leveling up? Grindy crafting? End-game dungeons that require double digit runs to even get a feeling you're accomplishing something? All cleverly thought design choices to go hand in hand with subscription.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't need any of that because of its B2P nature. Also, fact that there's no subscription and majority of the income comes from the expansions kinda puts pressure on ANet to, ya know, make GOOD expansions to warrant sales because there's no "safe money" that will somehow find its way into their pockets.
Yeah that makes a lot more sense
. Hopefully those things are done away with in the future by all mmo companies, replaced by aspects that keep people playing to have fun rather than accomplish...
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
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@OP: I don't know if you like PvP, but that's my end-game content. And for me nobody does it better in MMO's than Anet
Oh I know the first thing that comes to peoples mind when they read that question. The difference is the competitive nature of gear grinding. However, there is another side to that coin, vanity...
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...