It really depends on the IP, but most games that are two faction are boring and generally it leads to an uneven split since most faction designs are an uninspiring "good vs. evil" dichotomy.
So far GW2's system has me the most optimistic. I've always been of the mind that players on the same server should be cooperative rather than competitive and I think GW2 will go quite a ways to getting that back. On the other hand I also like to dabble in PvP so it seems the best of both worlds.
Im sick of the whole faction thing, mostly every game does it because its simple. This is why im looking forward to GW2. No factions, just server vs server. This is what will truly make a community come together.
Two 3 faction games are coming out, both GW2 and TSW
drazzah:
This is why im looking forward to GW2. No factions, just server vs server
Okay, so which is it?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Agreed, 2 faction systems only works in a few games were the lore doesn't allow anything more than just black and white.
For TOR it is actually right, anything else would be against the movies but for almost all other worlds should there at least be a neutral side even if there is good and evil as factions.
3 or 5 factions balances out the PvP. For a PvE only game like LOTRO and DDO it matters little and the same for a game like GW2 where servers fight eachother.
I also liked Lineage where players created their own faction by swearing loyalty to a prince or princess.
The problem though arises if you dont have the population in a game to sustain more than 2 factions,and making each seperate faction desirable to play so the majority of that population doesnt all drift towards 1 faction therby unbalancing it even more.
I am sure if it was an easy thing to accomplish more developers would do it.
It is an easy thing to do, but you have to design it in from a very early stage - impossible to revert to a 3+ faction system later.
It also requires you to ignore every single bloody aspect of WoW as a model for all MMO development.
I never understand why people bring up this desirability argument. Balancing factions is WORSE the less you have. If one of two factions is more desirable - disaster. If one of three is, then there is always the opportunity for the other two factions to work harder against the more popular faction.
The problem though arises if you dont have the population in a game to sustain more than 2 factions,and making each seperate faction desirable to play so the majority of that population doesnt all drift towards 1 faction therby unbalancing it even more.
I am sure if it was an easy thing to accomplish more developers would do it.
I have yet to see an MMO that has less than 4 players. If it has 4 players, it can support 4 factions.
That said, I was always thinking that WOW would release more factions as time went on, and they never did. It's the biggest failing of the game. As the OP mentions, classes are restricted and were moreso at launch. They could have made DK's Undead only, given Night Elves the Demon Hunter class, given Blademasters to the Orcs, and Archmages to the Humans.
When the Burning Crusade came out, they could have made the Burning Legion playable.
What is the right amount of factions? For WOW and its extremely restricted classes, I would say they should have had 4 at minimum. However, having an odd number of factions makes open world PVP objectives more interesting. Rift should have had 3 factions. Warhammer should have had like 10.
In spite of it only having two factions, I will still play TOR though. It just looks high quality.
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Two 3 faction games are coming out, both GW2 and TSW
drazzah:
This is why im looking forward to GW2. No factions, just server vs server
Okay, so which is it?
Depends on what you are doing. In PVE there are no separate player factions. For PVP (specifically the WvWvW battles) it is 3 "factions" or servers that battle each other.
Ultima Online really did it best even with Trammel. You had faction wars in both Tram and Fel and if you simply wanted to pvp anytime or anywhere then Fel is where you wanted to be.
Just in case you didn't experience it, Trammel and Fel mirrored each other as in basically identical worlds if you will. In Trammel, pvp was only consensual unless you were in a faction war which was voluntary. Fel was the 1/2 of the game where pvp was open and anyone could be attacked. There were consequences of becomming a murderer (stat loss for x amount of time) that sort of thing.
The Murder System was always my favorite.
Lineage 2 / Archelord did it best... i attack you, i go purple, you attack me, you go purple, and then we fight to the death! If not i kill you or, the other way around, and once of us is a murder, -- Red name, KoS to NPCs, huge punishment for death, ect...
Archelord allowed you to put bountys on people who murdered you, made for some amusing sights...
1 Guy with a red name running trying to take off his Armor before the mob of 50 people chasing him caught him.
Ultima Online had the same system. Except there was no taking your armor off. If you died all was lost including your bounty.
I got mine up to 100k on Baja back in the day. I went to my house and flame striked myself to death then logged on wtih an alt, chopped the body up and took the cash lol. 100k was quite a bit back then
Yes. I'm extremely sick of the simplicity of two factions.
My ideal MMO would have 5 major warring factions with the option to remain neutral amung them. Players should be able to influence the success of these factions, e.g., being able to build player colonies within and outside of the main static city. If you wish to build within one of the major 5 city factions, you will be taxed. If your guild starts a small colony (shops, etc) within the main city, you will be taxed harder.
Neutral colonies or those who reside in the wilderness will not be taxed. However, they don't have the security of the city walls / combat towers.
All 5 cities hate each other.
But hey... this is too complex for MMOs.... according to post-WoW developers.
Was there any pre-WoW developers that havnt found it too complex?Because otherwise you should just say according to any developers.
3 factions or more keep the balance on the game, but the server admins SHOULD have ways to make the less populated nations more desirable to join.
I liked AIKA's 5 nation system. Technically they weren't really nations but instead parallel instanced realities over the same areas, accessed through a rift.
Indeed 2 factions make for crap PvP, especially when you want to do anything special with said PvP(Territory control especially). they also tend to get to the point where 1 faction is easily known as the dominant faction. 3 is about perfect.
You get too high like in king of kings 3 where we had 7(!) Factions, and you raise the likeliness of a completely crap faction that stands no chance. Which granted it can be fun to play the underdog. But having a war against them where you know you could do almost nothing and still win is just well boring.
New games with 3 faction-TSW,Prime,Planetside and Guildwars server battles
Old games with out 2 factions DAOC,Fallen Earth and any sandbox game or free for all pvp game aka Darkfall,Mortal,AOC,Tera,Lineage,Earthrise,EvE.etc
I am sick of seeing the 2 factions ala WoW? no I am tired 2 factions which always end looking like good versus evil and evil always ends looking more bad arse thus more people join that side it has happen in Warhammer it has happen Rifts and Aion.For once i want to see Evil vs Evil or even Good vs Good to aviod this.
They are more than enough games on the market to aviod 2 faction games and three very good prospects for DAOC style faction combat
Comments
It really depends on the IP, but most games that are two faction are boring and generally it leads to an uneven split since most faction designs are an uninspiring "good vs. evil" dichotomy.
So far GW2's system has me the most optimistic. I've always been of the mind that players on the same server should be cooperative rather than competitive and I think GW2 will go quite a ways to getting that back. On the other hand I also like to dabble in PvP so it seems the best of both worlds.
Am I sick of two faction systems?
No not really.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Im sick of the whole faction thing, mostly every game does it because its simple. This is why im looking forward to GW2. No factions, just server vs server. This is what will truly make a community come together.
just1opinion:
Two 3 faction games are coming out, both GW2 and TSW
drazzah:
This is why im looking forward to GW2. No factions, just server vs server
Okay, so which is it?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The two faction system should be discarded or at the very least modified to allow player choice (e.g., betrayal of one side to join another).
Personally I view if anything hardcoded at all it should be the creation of more options instead of two factions.
There are no factions.
Its server vs server vs server pvp.
We all use the same races.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Agreed, 2 faction systems only works in a few games were the lore doesn't allow anything more than just black and white.
For TOR it is actually right, anything else would be against the movies but for almost all other worlds should there at least be a neutral side even if there is good and evil as factions.
3 or 5 factions balances out the PvP. For a PvE only game like LOTRO and DDO it matters little and the same for a game like GW2 where servers fight eachother.
I also liked Lineage where players created their own faction by swearing loyalty to a prince or princess.
It is an easy thing to do, but you have to design it in from a very early stage - impossible to revert to a 3+ faction system later.
It also requires you to ignore every single bloody aspect of WoW as a model for all MMO development.
I never understand why people bring up this desirability argument. Balancing factions is WORSE the less you have. If one of two factions is more desirable - disaster. If one of three is, then there is always the opportunity for the other two factions to work harder against the more popular faction.
Ex. myth of soma, legend of mir, mu online and eudemons online player.
Current game : Runescape (until pc build is complete)
Ex. myth of soma, legend of mir, mu online and eudemons online player.
Current game : Runescape (until pc build is complete)
I have yet to see an MMO that has less than 4 players. If it has 4 players, it can support 4 factions.
That said, I was always thinking that WOW would release more factions as time went on, and they never did. It's the biggest failing of the game. As the OP mentions, classes are restricted and were moreso at launch. They could have made DK's Undead only, given Night Elves the Demon Hunter class, given Blademasters to the Orcs, and Archmages to the Humans.
When the Burning Crusade came out, they could have made the Burning Legion playable.
What is the right amount of factions? For WOW and its extremely restricted classes, I would say they should have had 4 at minimum. However, having an odd number of factions makes open world PVP objectives more interesting. Rift should have had 3 factions. Warhammer should have had like 10.
In spite of it only having two factions, I will still play TOR though. It just looks high quality.
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Depends on what you are doing. In PVE there are no separate player factions. For PVP (specifically the WvWvW battles) it is 3 "factions" or servers that battle each other.
Ultima Online had the same system. Except there was no taking your armor off. If you died all was lost including your bounty.
I got mine up to 100k on Baja back in the day. I went to my house and flame striked myself to death then logged on wtih an alt, chopped the body up and took the cash lol. 100k was quite a bit back then
Impossible? Why do you even suggest this? It's VERY possible, and really not even hard compared to other programming stuff.
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I was considering the other servers as opposing factions. I guess my bad. /shrug
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Was there any pre-WoW developers that havnt found it too complex?Because otherwise you should just say according to any developers.
Im looking forward to more info about The Secret World three faction system and how it plays out in the game. The info we have so far is pretty cool.
3 factions or more keep the balance on the game, but the server admins SHOULD have ways to make the less populated nations more desirable to join.
I liked AIKA's 5 nation system. Technically they weren't really nations but instead parallel instanced realities over the same areas, accessed through a rift.
Indeed 2 factions make for crap PvP, especially when you want to do anything special with said PvP(Territory control especially). they also tend to get to the point where 1 faction is easily known as the dominant faction. 3 is about perfect.
You get too high like in king of kings 3 where we had 7(!) Factions, and you raise the likeliness of a completely crap faction that stands no chance. Which granted it can be fun to play the underdog. But having a war against them where you know you could do almost nothing and still win is just well boring.
I think gamers aren't doing their research
New games with 3 faction-TSW,Prime,Planetside and Guildwars server battles
Old games with out 2 factions DAOC,Fallen Earth and any sandbox game or free for all pvp game aka Darkfall,Mortal,AOC,Tera,Lineage,Earthrise,EvE.etc
I am sick of seeing the 2 factions ala WoW? no I am tired 2 factions which always end looking like good versus evil and evil always ends looking more bad arse thus more people join that side it has happen in Warhammer it has happen Rifts and Aion.For once i want to see Evil vs Evil or even Good vs Good to aviod this.
They are more than enough games on the market to aviod 2 faction games and three very good prospects for DAOC style faction combat