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Why People Defend Fail Games
TheLizardbones
Member CommonPosts: 10,910
Another article on how people identify with brands and how it affects their self esteem. It goes into why people will defend a brand even when there is something bad being shown about the brand. The example given is the Toyota recalls. I think it could apply very well to the MMO scene...especially here on MMORPG.Com.
Fanbois treat criticism of favorite brands as threat to self-image
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/08/users-treat-criticism-of-favorite-brands-as-threat-to-self-image.ars
They even use 'fanbois' in the title of the article. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Sounds like a perfect connection to MMO's.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Thank you for linking this. Very informative and may explain some of the more blatant "fanboi syndrome".
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
With gaming, in my opinion, it's a bit different than with cars. Games are purely for entertainment and what entertains one person may or may not entertain another. So the term "fail game" becomes very subjective.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
True. But what's being said here is that the more time you've invested in the product, whether through researching it, using it, etc., the more personally attached to it you are.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Well this is true in many walks of life, look how many people defend favorite sports teams, though its likely they have no real connection to it outside of perhaps living in the same city.
Humans identify with physical objects and of course attacking their choice of brand in effect is attacking them and they're going to defend their loyalty.
BTW, I still like our 2008 Toyota RAV 4...... recalls and all.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is pretty much it. The word "fail" gets thrown around far too often to the point where it really has no meaning an more. At this point we have a fairly saturated market, but people's and some developers' expectations are that all games can and should achieve "WoW" like numbers. This is so unrealistic it is mind-numbing how anyone could take that idea seriously.
With cars, the investment can be huge. So it makes sense to identify with it at least to a point. I inherited my father's Mustang convertible and it is hard to drive that thing and not have some emotional tug for a plethora of reasons, MMO's rarely if ever can call upon that kind of emotional or financial investment.
If a game is still up and making a company enough money that it warrants keeping the game up (meaning it is not costing more to keep the game running than they are bringing in), then it isn't a "fail". To say otherwise only demonstrates that one doesn't know the meaning of the word.
What many people don't realize is that just because they don't personally like something doesn't make it universally "this" or "that".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Yup basically true, can be applied to most things. People will rationalize just about any choice or action they take. And they take offense to anyone questioning those choices or actions.
But really what amazes me more is how few people understand the difference in individuals thought processes and berate those who do not agree with their own opinions. So I don't blame the fanbois, thats the human brain's fault, self defense of rationalization... but those who attack others for their rationalizations because they dont agree is the most laughable thing. It's like... I like beets cause I ate them as a kid... but someone telling me I'm stupid for liking beets. lol?
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
You are just out of touch with the passion many of these players have for their games. If it was just a game, they wouldn't be so passionate.
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https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I don't think you understood what I said. It had nothing to do with PASSION. You can be utterly passionate for a game, yes, but...if you ARE...it's probably entertaining to you. See my point? It has to do with the value of entertainment which.....is subjective. Regardless of what someone else thinks of a game, someone that enjoys it is not going to see it as a "fail game." For THEM....it's not.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Let's first define what a failed MMORPG is. Any suggestions?
A little tribalism, a slightly contrarian/rebellious personality and a persecution complex are a powerful mix.
Anything that's shut down or otherwise fails to bring any profit at all, most people here will disagree, but that's how i define a failed mmo.
This has been explained well by Industry leaders in Social media, etc.
If someone spends enough time doing something, they begin to see value in the task. This is due to the fact people place value on their time even be it subconsciously. Eventually if someone spends enough time doing that task, when you then upsale them on the idea of "Hey for only $5 you can save X time". Usually 2x EXP scrolls, or items that could take hours to farm/acquire otherwise. So the person thinks to themselves "Is my time worth $5 an hour?" (in this example)
Why yes it is! So I will spend the $5 on the micro-transaction! It's justified!
That same person 3 months earlier SWORE they would never pay for games again and only would play F2P games....
Now in regards to this thread, it is a similar psycology. If I either spend enough time learning about a game, reading about it and being excited about it - I start to place value on the game since I've put time into the game (even if it hasn't been released yet). Games already released that people have spent time on can lead to even more disillusion.
Now if someone I don't know comes along and says, "That game you have been spending your time/energy on is a pile of steaming crap" - A lot of people can't break the subconscious connectors and get irate... "OMG THIS GAME IS NOT CRAP, IT IS THE BEST THING EVER". In reality what that person is saying is "My time is not valueless, I am not a waste, I put hard effort into this game and this game is awesome because otherwise I may look/feel foolish for spending time on/in the game"
This phenomenon also explains why many people will not let go of their Religion "I've spent my whole life believing in X, putting time into X - if I admit it is all a hoax now, that means my life was a waste!! Cannot Compute! Mind exploding, must not stop believing in the LIES!"
Thanks
I already gave one. See above plz.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Commercial failure: failed to make target profit (even a profitable game can be considered a failure if the return on investment didn't meet the business model that was used to justify starting the project in the first place).
Artistic failure: subjective experience failed to match marketting/hype/design-concept.
One that closed down prematurely, not from lack of time but from lack of developer skills & funding.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
As long as a game is still going....or gains enough interest to be "resurrected" it is not a fail game..imo. People may not like the game...and it may be considerably less successful than some other game(s)...but it's still going...and that's not fail imo. If it lives then someone cares enough to keep it alive..
I was going to say that, but I couldn't bring myself to call Tabula Rasa a "Fail Game".
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
"fail game" is such a broad view.
For me a failgame is a game that has shut down, I mean AoC for an example is considered a fail game yet thousands of players enjoy it and pay monnthly sub while others hates it and call it a failgame and Failcom sucks ect.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Agree to that.
Some people are very fast in classifying things they don't like as "fail", you might even say in line with that article that for some people their self image is as much attached to it as is claimed that the self image of fans is attached to it: if a product that they dislike proves to be popular, liked or successful, apparently they think their own taste isn't superior or that the product doesn't deserve it, or something like that.
But for the rest, tastes differs, what one person likes and enjoys, another person considers fail. I know that I had a blast in AoC while other people tried to tell me that it was utter fail and horrible: well, that may have been the case for them, but while they were off complaining I was still having a great time, so who are they to tell me that I should have no gaming fun in a game they themselves disliked?
I think you have extremes on both sides, people who need it that the game they play is successful as people who need it that the game they hate is a fail.
Most of the people are more inclined towards a middle ground though, not the extremes, unless debates get polarized of course.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
agreed torgrim, but with mmos especially right now they are at a sort of crossroads, on the one hand you have a very nice looking distinct path in the form of wow clones and sell safe games which play it safe and attempt replicate the success of blizzard and the other path is a weed ocvered trail that represents the mmos which try to change the way wie concieve an mmo and try to break away from the normal mmo copy and paste forumula.
The problem here i some prefer the safer route and stict to the more visible path and follow those mmo games jumping from one mmo to the next, other prefer to walk the path that hasnt been walked as much and try a little uncertainty in the pursuit of a refreshing mmo.
the truth here is that the big companies fail to take risks resulting in inferior copies of each other causing this fail game senario and the indie games are left out due to a lack of marketing and trust from gamers, Many would rather wait for a big publisher like blizzard to make the next sandbox mmo but most people know thats never gonig to happen until an indie comapny has some success with one the bigger brands wont follow suit. everything blizzard has ever doen for example has been a copy of something else they jsut polsihed and improved upon a tired and tested forumla and fail games arent going anytime soon because it seems there just isnt room for more than 1 mmo unless you take the indie route and are able to survive on alot less subscribers.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
You're so witty and intellectual. You really ought to take on writing as a full time job, if you haven't already. That way you could quit slumming with the lowly hordes here. So much mental pathology to examine though, I'm sure you'd miss it.
On topic:
"Fail games" is not a term with one accepted definition. It is purely subjective.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I agree
So basically the article is telling us nothing? You time investment= attachment. Wow. I am totally blown away by that intellect needed to comprehend such a concept. This is another obvious thing that everyone knows. If I spend 5 minutes in something I can easily dismiss it than if I spend three weeks. Product=anything. From spouse to your lawn, people care about different things for different reasons.
I mean wow your self-esteem actually relates to how you interact with things. I mean think about it..seriously this is something we didn't know? Someone tells you your bf/gf/spouse is a cheating pile of crap and they show you proof. Are you telling me that is going to have no affect? Its no different than in games to the car you drive. People don't like being told that what they are doing is a waste and garbage. You do not want to read about what you enjoy as something that is not generally well liked and gets hounded on daily. You go buy a game and all your friends say its a pile of crap you like it but they don't care so something you enjoy gets tossed aside while they talk about another game they all enjoy and probably say that other game is garbage. Leaving you feel that what you do is a waste. Could go on and on about the psyche of people but I am pretty sure we already all understand this basic stuff.