Its hard to say how successful Rift has been. I get the impression its a bit of a dead horse, and most people who didn't like it have moved on. I think if it were more popular, you'd actually see a lot more complaining about it.
You really just have to many consider how many games there are that the Gamer Hivemind has declared "dead" that are still running profitably.
It survived six months, and the devs have not failed to churn out new content. Most games that passed both of those tests have gone on to long, long careers.
At some point you just have to stare at the people who prematurely declared a game's death and ask them where they got the cracked crystal ball. Rift is still growing, and still getting new content. The game may not be my personal cup of tea, but by any reasonable definition of "success", it's doing just fine.
This post is about what I'd have written, good post and it uses actual unbiased thought.
MMOs do not have to be like Ricky Bobby "if you're not first you're last!" :P They can just be successful whether they are 2nd, 3rd, heck they can even be 5th!
I think its funny that RIFTs raid focus is holding it back from being a great game.
Considering TRION thought a raid focus would be money in the bank and now are scrambling to give the majority of their playerbase something to work for is fucking funny.
AA, solo/duo instances, more crafting options, better rift content, new zones...
finally they are starting to get out of the "Lets just push out 10/20 man raids and they will stay" mentallity.
It is curious but it is following the AoC model, but for different reasons. Strong box sales, but for various reasons a smaller player sub base emerges, the company tries trials and all sorts of tempt you back tactics, then releases a full blown expansion and then we head to free to play. This is where AoC went, and Rift looks to be going the same way. It just didn't have enough to hold a million subs. Like it or not that is a major bench mark for the sub-based mmo of today.
Originally posted by Puremallace Originally posted by Vhaln
Its hard to say how successful Rift has been. I get the impression its a bit of a dead horse, and most people who didn't like it have moved on. I think if it were more popular, you'd actually see a lot more complaining about it. I get the impression they'd be very lucky to be able to claim a few hundred thousand current subs. And yet, Trion does seem to be a boundless spring of positive spin and advertising. Maybe they're doing better than it seems, but I don't know. To believe that, you'd kind of have to take them at their word, and ignore everything else. Not saying its impossible, but let's just say that if I were an investor, I'd dig a little deeper before giving them anything.
The senior vice president came out and said they have sold 1.5 million copies. They have 60 servers running high/medium pop 24 hours a day and this is a dead horse?
Hell they even have WoW copying them now on ward drobe gear.
Wardrobe gear was in Vanguard, like 4 years ago.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
It's the only game I could make a cute, chubby young lass. She had great hips! Seriously, I think a woman with a little meat on the bones is very sensual and beautiful. Usually in games dwarfs look like...well...dwarfs...and chubby characters just look fat. My dwarf was very lovely!
I'm kinda tired of the quest grind though. It's not just Rift, it's all these games with the quest grind to max, and then what? Same old thing I hate, raids? That's why skill based advancement is better. I give them props though for coming up with a system that tries to add more diversity. But for me one possible end game would be the continual evolution and refinement of my character. That's one thing that I will always remember fondly about Precu SWG. Yes, there were flavor of the month builds, but it never bothered me because I was doing my own thing.
They didn't have much content to begin with, so they've had to add tons. They need to create a better experience for levels 1-49 or they won't get a high percentage of new players to even reach 50.
Most of the content they have added is for high level. The process of getting to max level is currently vary narrow, linear and boring.
Thanks
Having a dungeon to do at every level past 15, WF's for XP, Zone rifts for XP, Questing for XP.
The process is somewhat boring regardless, but it still offers more to do to level up than most of the competition.
There is not a new dungeon each level after 15. More like every 5 levels. And the levels dont really overlap, you really only have one choice of dungeon to do. Compared to EQ, EQ2, Vanguard and WoW that is pretty small. Its something to be ashamed of for Rift, not proud of.
It also only offers one zone per level, which also sets it apart form most of its competition, in a bad way.
Yes, you can do Rifts for exp, and it is an option. Heck in WoW you could level by mining nodes or doing archaeology. Its about as exciting. (Im talking about the regular rifts, which after you pass the first zone are pretty damn boring. The events arent frequent enough to level off of)
Its hard to say how successful Rift has been. I get the impression its a bit of a dead horse, and most people who didn't like it have moved on. I think if it were more popular, you'd actually see a lot more complaining about it.
I get the impression they'd be very lucky to be able to claim a few hundred thousand current subs. And yet, Trion does seem to be a boundless spring of positive spin and advertising. Maybe they're doing better than it seems, but I don't know. To believe that, you'd kind of have to take them at their word, and ignore everything else. Not saying its impossible, but let's just say that if I were an investor, I'd dig a little deeper before giving them anything.
The senior vice president came out and said they have sold 1.5 million copies. They have 60 servers running high/medium pop 24 hours a day and this is a dead horse?
Hell they even have WoW copying them now on ward drobe gear.
Wardrobe gear was in Vanguard, like 4 years ago.
Yeah wardrobe gear is a MMO staple now. WoW is doing it in response to their subs dropping for the first time in 7 years, but its because it was a requested feature LONG before anyone even heard of Rift.
One of the turn-offs of RIFTs is how easy the game is. Then they hand out epics and loot like Candy every other week.
Now this actually makes me not want to go back... They are just making the game easier and handing out more free stuff to try and get people to play..
If they want people to return, they should add a ton of content and make combat itself more interesting and challenging. They should fix PvP without breaking PVE further.
Free stuff isn't going to change the core game issues.
I hardly think Rift falls into the "not adding enough content" category. Do they need to hold back content and lable it "adventure packs", "modules" or "expansions" and put a nice price tag on it before its respected as content to the MMO community?
No other mmo... NO other MMO has released as much content as Rift has in a 6 month period. And guess what? They've done it all for free.
No other major MMO has released so small, so its really six of one half dozen of another.
Although with WoW dropping information on 4.3, if 4.3 comes out by end of october it will be 3 raids, 5 dungeons, a fairly large daily hub, and some other things that 4.3 is said to have (darkmoon faire island, etc) in a 6 month span which will be very close to what Rift has done.
No other major MMO has released so small, so its really six of one half dozen of another.
Although with WoW dropping information on 4.3, if 4.3 comes out by end of october it will be 3 raids, 5 dungeons, a fairly large daily hub, and some other things that 4.3 is said to have (darkmoon faire island, etc) in a 6 month span which will be very close to what Rift has done.
Since Rift has released WoW has dropped ZG and ZA and a 7 boss raid and that is IT. Not sure wtf you are talking about or when you think Rift launched.
Rift in that period of time has released two 20man 5 boss raid...one 10 boss 20man raid....2 10man instances are not just recycled 20mans.
I think you two are illustrating the problems both WoW and RIFT have. For the fanbois it just comes down to new raid bosses patched in every few months.
I'm interested to see what they come up with. They have always been inventive, and although i don't and won't play anymore, i watch the title with interest as they've come up with some fun ideas. Slivers are a unique concept, and soloable end game content for those of us who don't or can't raid is great stuff. it's just inside a game i can't stomach playing...so i wait patiently for Trion to make up these ideas, implement them, and have them pilfered by better games so i can use them in a setting that is enjoyable to me.
I think they were claiming 1 million sales...but, the subs is a trickier number now, and it depends on whether you roll in trial accounts I guess, but I think the number probably a lot less than 250K peeps, trouble is Trion don't broadcast their sub numbers now for whatever reasons.
WoW counts subs for people in China who pay by the hour. I can have 11million subs if I did that too lol
WoW has 4 million North American accounts. more than 4 times that of Rift. No spinning those numbers, even for the Rift fanboys.
Btw, I love how Hartsman said Trion wanted to give players something they've never had before, considering his game is a complete WoW clone. And then they go on to list all these birthday items like increased XP and in-game items players will receive. Uhhhh yeah...that's never been done. Original, as always.
Reading the list of perks makes it very tempting to log back in... until I remember that raiding is the only worthwhile PvE endgame, Trion does nothing to punish exploiters, leveling is so fast you hardly have time to enjoy it before it's over, and the leveling/questing is so mindnumbingly linear that after having leveled a toon on either faction the replay value nears zero.
And what more would you want endgame? Maybe something like this?
Trion has all the necessary things in Rift to perpetuate an end game, but to get more out of any game it comes down to player driven events.
Something like that as an alternative to raiding while awarding comparable rewards would be a huge step in the right direction. Rift dropped the ball in a huge, huge way by going the safe solo until cap then grind dungeons/raids route instead of focusing on the rifts and invasions.
They have very much potential and some of that has been seen in things like crafting rifts and I certainly can't argue that TW is working at a frenzied pace adding new things to the game, but it's still a barebones themepark. So for me not only does that aggravate a case of burnout, but it also draws upon the boredom and frustration I've hit at endgame in every themepark MMO since WoW. When it feels like you're playing the same game you left, there's not much reason to stay.
Reading the list of perks makes it very tempting to log back in... until I remember that raiding is the only worthwhile PvE endgame, Trion does nothing to punish exploiters, leveling is so fast you hardly have time to enjoy it before it's over, and the leveling/questing is so mindnumbingly linear that after having leveled a toon on either faction the replay value nears zero.
And what more would you want endgame? Maybe something like this?
Trion has all the necessary things in Rift to perpetuate an end game, but to get more out of any game it comes down to player driven events.
Something like that as an alternative to raiding while awarding comparable rewards would be a huge step in the right direction. Rift dropped the ball in a huge, huge way by going the safe solo until cap then grind dungeons/raids route instead of focusing on the rifts and invasions.
They have very much potential and some of that has been seen in things like crafting rifts and I certainly can't argue that TW is working at a frenzied pace adding new things to the game, but it's still a barebones themepark. So for me not only does that aggravate a case of burnout, but it also draws upon the boredom and frustration I've hit at endgame in every themepark MMO since WoW. When it feels like you're playing the same game you left, there's not much reason to stay.
The idea Ive seen that has the most potential on paper is EQ2's dungeon creator. Who knows how well it will turn out but if people can design small group content for other groups it could be a big win. And its stuff like this that makes it seem intriguing to me:
"Where the real fun will come for builders is the object interactivity with the spawners," he said, referring to the dungeon addition that will spawn monsters for players to fight. "If I put an orc spawner down and I put a campfire next to it, now when the orcs spawn they have fire-based weapons. If I put an orc spawner down, and an orc spawner there, and another one there and put an alarm bell next to this group. Then when I attack that group, they will call for help from the other groups."
So they want to give people something they've "never had before" and then they come up with stuff a la XP potions and extra favor? And the team needed to sit down for brainstorming for this?
Not shure if Trion really thinks anyone beyond the biggest fanboy buys this.
That's about the same move as "you're not in Azeroth anymore" -big talk, tiny delivery.
I have played Rift and WoW and have to say Rift wins hands down. I swear some of you act like you didn't know Blizzard was a hoe when you married her.......Move on......Stay.........But quit the bellyaching.......Your feeder bar awaits....
I have played Rift and WoW and have to say Rift wins hands down. I swear some of you act like you didn't know Blizzard was a hoe when you married her.......Move on......Stay.........But quit the bellyaching.......Your feeder bar awaits....
Well Rift could only entertain me for about 3 months then I already had been raiding a few times and got a few nice pieces of raidgear.
WoW on the other hand had me entertained forover one year before I got burned out of it, and never got to a raid in WoW.
But in the end both games are most alike with their endgame focus on raiding, but at least WoW gives a better leveling experience then Rift. So nope Rift doesn't win hands down, it however isn't a bad game. And before you start wondering, no WoW wasn't my first MMORPG and I don't play it anymore either.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
I'm just pleased it didn't crash and burn. Investment money doesn't get very happy about MMOs these days. Too many flops, too much risk.
Congrats Trion!
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Comments
This post is about what I'd have written, good post and it uses actual unbiased thought.
MMOs do not have to be like Ricky Bobby "if you're not first you're last!" :P They can just be successful whether they are 2nd, 3rd, heck they can even be 5th!
I think its funny that RIFTs raid focus is holding it back from being a great game.
Considering TRION thought a raid focus would be money in the bank and now are scrambling to give the majority of their playerbase something to work for is fucking funny.
AA, solo/duo instances, more crafting options, better rift content, new zones...
finally they are starting to get out of the "Lets just push out 10/20 man raids and they will stay" mentallity.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Had loads of fun on a trial acct of Rift lately. I may have to buy it when it goes on sale
Rift is doing good I am not eeing it going anywhere.
I just wonder when there will be paid expansion? in 6 months? in 12?
Might be shotly after swtor or gw2 to win some subs back and looking at their nice content patches , expansion might be nice
It is curious but it is following the AoC model, but for different reasons. Strong box sales, but for various reasons a smaller player sub base emerges, the company tries trials and all sorts of tempt you back tactics, then releases a full blown expansion and then we head to free to play. This is where AoC went, and Rift looks to be going the same way. It just didn't have enough to hold a million subs. Like it or not that is a major bench mark for the sub-based mmo of today.
Hell they even have WoW copying them now on ward drobe gear.
Wardrobe gear was in Vanguard, like 4 years ago.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
It's the only game I could make a cute, chubby young lass. She had great hips! Seriously, I think a woman with a little meat on the bones is very sensual and beautiful. Usually in games dwarfs look like...well...dwarfs...and chubby characters just look fat. My dwarf was very lovely!
I'm kinda tired of the quest grind though. It's not just Rift, it's all these games with the quest grind to max, and then what? Same old thing I hate, raids? That's why skill based advancement is better. I give them props though for coming up with a system that tries to add more diversity. But for me one possible end game would be the continual evolution and refinement of my character. That's one thing that I will always remember fondly about Precu SWG. Yes, there were flavor of the month builds, but it never bothered me because I was doing my own thing.
Half-birthday celebration ? That's pathetic... and probably desperate.
Probably because Trion are scared 1 year will mark Rift going F2P model.
There is not a new dungeon each level after 15. More like every 5 levels. And the levels dont really overlap, you really only have one choice of dungeon to do. Compared to EQ, EQ2, Vanguard and WoW that is pretty small. Its something to be ashamed of for Rift, not proud of.
It also only offers one zone per level, which also sets it apart form most of its competition, in a bad way.
Yes, you can do Rifts for exp, and it is an option. Heck in WoW you could level by mining nodes or doing archaeology. Its about as exciting. (Im talking about the regular rifts, which after you pass the first zone are pretty damn boring. The events arent frequent enough to level off of)
Yeah wardrobe gear is a MMO staple now. WoW is doing it in response to their subs dropping for the first time in 7 years, but its because it was a requested feature LONG before anyone even heard of Rift.
No other major MMO has released so small, so its really six of one half dozen of another.
Although with WoW dropping information on 4.3, if 4.3 comes out by end of october it will be 3 raids, 5 dungeons, a fairly large daily hub, and some other things that 4.3 is said to have (darkmoon faire island, etc) in a 6 month span which will be very close to what Rift has done.
Since Rift has released WoW has dropped ZG and ZA and a 7 boss raid and that is IT. Not sure wtf you are talking about or when you think Rift launched.
Rift in that period of time has released two 20man 5 boss raid...one 10 boss 20man raid....2 10man instances are not just recycled 20mans.
I think you two are illustrating the problems both WoW and RIFT have. For the fanbois it just comes down to new raid bosses patched in every few months.
I'm interested to see what they come up with. They have always been inventive, and although i don't and won't play anymore, i watch the title with interest as they've come up with some fun ideas. Slivers are a unique concept, and soloable end game content for those of us who don't or can't raid is great stuff. it's just inside a game i can't stomach playing...so i wait patiently for Trion to make up these ideas, implement them, and have them pilfered by better games so i can use them in a setting that is enjoyable to me.
WoW has 4 million North American accounts. more than 4 times that of Rift. No spinning those numbers, even for the Rift fanboys.
Btw, I love how Hartsman said Trion wanted to give players something they've never had before, considering his game is a complete WoW clone. And then they go on to list all these birthday items like increased XP and in-game items players will receive. Uhhhh yeah...that's never been done. Original, as always.
Something like that as an alternative to raiding while awarding comparable rewards would be a huge step in the right direction. Rift dropped the ball in a huge, huge way by going the safe solo until cap then grind dungeons/raids route instead of focusing on the rifts and invasions.
They have very much potential and some of that has been seen in things like crafting rifts and I certainly can't argue that TW is working at a frenzied pace adding new things to the game, but it's still a barebones themepark. So for me not only does that aggravate a case of burnout, but it also draws upon the boredom and frustration I've hit at endgame in every themepark MMO since WoW. When it feels like you're playing the same game you left, there's not much reason to stay.
The idea Ive seen that has the most potential on paper is EQ2's dungeon creator. Who knows how well it will turn out but if people can design small group content for other groups it could be a big win. And its stuff like this that makes it seem intriguing to me:
"Where the real fun will come for builders is the object interactivity with the spawners," he said, referring to the dungeon addition that will spawn monsters for players to fight. "If I put an orc spawner down and I put a campfire next to it, now when the orcs spawn they have fire-based weapons. If I put an orc spawner down, and an orc spawner there, and another one there and put an alarm bell next to this group. Then when I attack that group, they will call for help from the other groups."
Why does the gaming community seem to judge all games on a pass/fail construction.
Isn't it ok to have multiple games doing well?
It seems like this thread has devolved into either A.) Rift is a failure or B.) Rift is a success.
Guess what folks, sometimes things fall in the 'average' and not always in the extreme.
Some of us consider average to be failure? Most of the world is average, and it's just not that impressive, once the novelty wears off.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
So they want to give people something they've "never had before" and then they come up with stuff a la XP potions and extra favor? And the team needed to sit down for brainstorming for this?
Not shure if Trion really thinks anyone beyond the biggest fanboy buys this.
That's about the same move as "you're not in Azeroth anymore" -big talk, tiny delivery.
It's actually an achievement for an MMO to make 6 months these days. As much as I hated the game, this is a good result for Trion.
I hope GW2, a game doing something original, pummels Rift into the ground and reverses the MMO trend towards dull games though.
.
I have played Rift and WoW and have to say Rift wins hands down. I swear some of you act like you didn't know Blizzard was a hoe when you married her.......Move on......Stay.........But quit the bellyaching.......Your feeder bar awaits....
Well Rift could only entertain me for about 3 months then I already had been raiding a few times and got a few nice pieces of raidgear.
WoW on the other hand had me entertained forover one year before I got burned out of it, and never got to a raid in WoW.
But in the end both games are most alike with their endgame focus on raiding, but at least WoW gives a better leveling experience then Rift. So nope Rift doesn't win hands down, it however isn't a bad game. And before you start wondering, no WoW wasn't my first MMORPG and I don't play it anymore either.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
I'm just pleased it didn't crash and burn. Investment money doesn't get very happy about MMOs these days. Too many flops, too much risk.
Congrats Trion!