So my friend and I are totally psyched about Guild Wars 2. We always talk about all the cool stuff thats going to be in it, and how amazing it looks. But in a little excercise we came up with, we had to think up potential pitfalls to the gameplay. Not including things like the possibility of things such as the dynamic events not working properly, because things ilke that can be fixed and patched by the devs. I'm talking fundamental issues with the game itself.
The biggest one we thought of is could the combat become repetitive? From what Anet has released, a sword will have plenty of different types of attacks on the left hand skill bar(attack bar) depending on what class one plays. I'm a big sword user I love them. But let's say I'm playing a Warrior with a Sword and Shield cuz thats how I roll! By level 74, using the same 5 attacks over and over again might just get repetitive?
Could there be higher level attack skills for the attack bar that Anet hasn't shown us to prevent repetition? Or do yall think that with as many weapon combo's and class types there are, there is no way one could master them all by level 80 and beyond? Also, the various utility skills might be enough to keep things fresh.
Still, one must think about doing the same sort of attacks no matter what weapon your using, through the whole game, must get boring at some point? WoW has avoided bordem with the sheer amount of skills it has, but with Guild Wars 2, theres not nearly as many.
What do yall think?
you do still have another 5 skills to use too though, plus you will need to swap to your healing build at some point or other so you dont die
Actual 1 button macros are quite impossible and gimps the dps of any character, and effectivness of tanking as well.
Macros are well made in WoW(unlike rift for eg) while they make gameplay more easier and less piano playing they don't actually think for you, or make effective rotations(and I am talking more than 50% less dps here)
Cant think of a spec that can play with something like this, and I played probably the most dumbed down spec in the game (arcane mage)
yes, feral is prolly the most proactive spec out there, since you have to manage the energy bar and not letting dots fall of, but it comes down to a rotation nonetheless, which gets severely dumbed down once the boss goes bellow 25% hp. All this while trying to stay behind a boss with is hard sometimes (and gimps the spec in certain bosses)
Every combat system forcing you to use a rotation is repetitive..
GW2 lets you choose your actions based as reactions to what the mob is doing.... Its not aboout highest DPS numbers, but about surviving a fight while killing the ennemie... i.e. doing a rotation to get as high DPS as possible might get you killed really easy.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Ok, let's see from a warlock perspective. Corruption, Bane of Agony, Curse of the Elements/Curse of Exhaustion, Fel Armor for nuke, Demon Armor for saving, Unstable Affliction, Haunt, Fear, Howl of Terror, Pet macro silence, pet macro devour, Shadowbolt, Soulburn, Portal, Death Coil, Soul Swap and this is just affliction for PvP and not to mention the destruction or demon for PvE how many rotations they have and buttons to click.
Hunters and druids have as well complex rotations and a lot of keys to press, so your regular BG is just AB, AB, AB, AB, Arcane Barage/Arcane Missiles.
Warlock is not that hard, even PvP, and I played with one (MLS) during season 9, its basically get all dots up, and spread with soul swap. I'm not talking the cheer amount of skills you have, but the ones you actually use are fairly limited.
Also played a hunter in pvp during the KFC madness, and no, its not hard, not a lot of keys, and hunter in pve is fairly easy, just making sure you have enuff focus for a certain shot every 9-10 sec, and thats it.
In pve when you put it all down, and you don't have to do much for your raid (like controlling, kiting adds etc) everything gets really dumbed, and down to a set rotation of 3-4 main spells.
Anyway, don't want to get into that, as i'm derailing the topic.
Long story short: Every spec in WoW becomes a set rotation with very little proactive stuff to do, being most of it reactive
I don't agree that WoW has a lot of skills, by the end of Tier 11 I was forced to switch from Fire damage tree to Arcane damage tree on my mage, and OMG the boredom.
throw a couple missile procs in the middle, but this was it. I use a total of 4 skills during a fight, one of them being macrooed with one of my trinkets.
Other trees are no much diferent, spam fireball until proc, them use proc, and refresh dot, about 4 skills in total.
WoW gives you the illusion of many skills because you always have most of the 3 specs skills avaiable(which can be used in very limited scenarios) but what really happens is that when you choose one talent tree you make 2/3 of your skills useless and not worth using.
Can throw any WoW class at me, and i'll debunk that myth of having a lot of skills in wow, i think i lvled a total fo 9 characters in WoW (2 being my friends characters) i know everything fairly well
Ok, let's see from a warlock perspective. Corruption, Bane of Agony, Curse of the Elements/Curse of Exhaustion, Fel Armor for nuke, Demon Armor for saving, Unstable Affliction, Haunt, Fear, Howl of Terror, Pet macro silence, pet macro devour, Shadowbolt, Soulburn, Portal, Death Coil, Soul Swap and this is just affliction for PvP and not to mention the destruction or demon for PvE how many rotations they have and buttons to click.
Hunters and druids have as well complex rotations and a lot of keys to press, so your regular BG is just AB, AB, AB, AB, Arcane Barage/Arcane Missiles.
I know this isn't related to what you're talking about, but I wanted to point out that the 17 skills you mention are less than you'll have access to at any one time with a GW2 necromancer, if you include the 5 from first weapon, 5 from second weapon, 5 utility, and 4 from the Death Shroud they can access at any time they've built up sufficient Life Force.
GW2 won't let you have a ton of stuff on your bar, but when you think about all of them being useful vs the number of WoW skills you actually use, they're pretty comparable.
Also @ OP... Warriors are the masters of weapons in this game. Versatility is their thing. You have access to 9 weapons in 19 different configurations. And they do different things. It's not like another game where an axe = sword = mace. They give you totally different skills which can lend to totally different playstyles, especially when you consider customization through traits as well. In particular you're going to have legitimate ranged options you won't have in other games, not just using a bow for pulling or stats. Embrace the flexibility and choose the best tools for the job, don't lock yourself in to a sword and shield.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I'm pretty convinced that traits are the saving grace of repetitive combat. Constant tweaking of traits can keep things fresh instead of repetitive. But does ANYBODY have a list of traits for the classes yet? has Anet released them yet? I'd love to read them.
my question is, does every sword have the same skills as every sword?
same with other weapons, because it would be nice if Anet made them have diffrent mixes that are all viable (to keep one freom bing overpowered) i would think it would be cool that way
"I like one weapon. That's how I roll. Booooo, the game will be repetetive for me" <- that's what I hear from OP. Why people make some limitations to themselves and then blame the game for that?
I'm pretty sure the game is not out yet, which means I'm relatively sure I'm not making limitations on myself and blaming the game for it, I was simply using the sword and shield example to point out the limited number of combat moves to 1 weapon. And the potential chance that the limited number of comat moves could be repetitive.
Say something intelligent next time instead of trolling.
Sorry, I don't throw pearls before swine in pointless threads. Whole topic can be summiarized by two sentences "Got bored with current weapon skills? Switch traits, weapon, profession".
Using the assumption of a warrior/guardian. Thief and Ranger would add even more complexity.
Sword plus sword 5 skills.
Sword plus shield 5 skills.
Sword plus warhorn 5 skills.
Sword plus torch 5 skills.
Sword plus axe 5 skills.
Sword plus mace 5 skills.
The only repetiveness is the Main Hand skills. That is still 12 skills to master in combination of the main hand ones.
Then add the trait system into the mix. That's a lot of combinations to work with while the system also keeps it manageable (you focused on the battle and not on timer bars/hactionbars).
Only possible downside is lack of different attack animations. And that is more a developement issue.
Using the assumption of a warrior/guardian. Thief and Ranger would add even more complexity.
Sword plus sword 5 skills.
Sword plus shield 5 skills.
Sword plus warhorn 5 skills.
Sword plus torch 5 skills.
Sword plus axe 5 skills.
Sword plus mace 5 skills.
The only repetiveness is the Main Hand skills. That is still 12 skills to master in combination of the main hand ones.
Then add the trait system into the mix. That's a lot of combinations to work with while the system also keeps it manageable (you focused on the battle and not on timer bars/hactionbars).
Only possible downside is lack of different attack animations. And that is more a developement issue.
OP, I do not think you have much to worry about.
i know this sounds silly but i was hoeping Anet would make the skills around the element the wepon is or other things like if it was clockwork, aparently its just for looks and effects, such as shattering
I'm pretty convinced that traits are the saving grace of repetitive combat. Constant tweaking of traits can keep things fresh instead of repetitive. But does ANYBODY have a list of traits for the classes yet? has Anet released them yet? I'd love to read them.
I am pretty sure , that it is the combination of utillity skills , sekondary weapons , attributes and traits that will help you , but as for your question here is a link
the guildwars 2 wiki has list for each class of traits that have been seen so far. But every thing is still subjekt to changes as the itterative workprocess that arenanet have, just doesn't make our knowledge that stable.
"I like one weapon. That's how I roll. Booooo, the game will be repetetive for me" <- that's what I hear from OP. Why people make some limitations to themselves and then blame the game for that?
How about instead of berating the questioner about his particular statement, explain that you get a wide variety of skill based on the ammount of time you use said weapon (Realistic is it not) =D
As I was saying bro, you aren't pigeonholed into just 5 skills, as of right now, you get more as you use the weapon. And it seems you don't have to buy them! Weapon skills that is.
*Edit* Traits also drastically change what certain skills do, causing extra effects, increasing damage, etc. So even this, with over 100 traits per profession, you are set, it will be as repetative as you want. Mix it up Sr. Sword and board.
There are going to be plenty of situations where sticking with a sword and shield through thick and thin will hamper your progress and endanger the party. Plz give us your in game name so we all can avoid the headaches.
There are going to be plenty of situations where sticking with a sword and shield through thick and thin will hamper your progress and endanger the party. Plz give us your in game name so we all can avoid the headaches.
Look up and read what I said to the last guy and stop trolling someone with a simple question please. It isn't cool, he might be completely new, you don't know this guy, so don't go dropping crap like on him because he likes his sword and shield. And if you wanted to teach him how the game works you could've said this instead of being disrespectful:
"I know you may like your sword and board but certain situations may present itself where the sword and shield loadout may not be the most useful in the given scenario."
I don't know who pissed in your conrflakes, but telling someone "Hey I don't want to party with you because you might not fully understand the game" isn't going to make a positive impression, is not going going to make them receptive to your point of view, and it makes me sad this is the community I will put up with come release. Please be kinder to those who don't know as much as you, arrogance and rudeness are unbecoming of the members of this forum.
Using the assumption of a warrior/guardian. Thief and Ranger would add even more complexity.
Sword plus sword 5 skills.
Sword plus shield 5 skills.
Sword plus warhorn 5 skills.
Sword plus torch 5 skills.
Sword plus axe 5 skills.
Sword plus mace 5 skills.
The only repetiveness is the Main Hand skills. That is still 12 skills to master in combination of the main hand ones.
Then add the trait system into the mix. That's a lot of combinations to work with while the system also keeps it manageable (you focused on the battle and not on timer bars/hactionbars).
Only possible downside is lack of different attack animations. And that is more a developement issue.
OP, I do not think you have much to worry about.
This is the actual combinations, based on the skills we currently are aware of for Guardian:
Guardian
Two Handed
Staff: 5 Skills (Plus 1 combo)
2H Sword: 5 Skills
Hammer: 5 Skills
Main Hand
Sword: 3 Skills
Mace: 3 Skills (2 Combos)
Scepter: 3 Skills
Off Hand
Shield: 2 Skills
Focus: 2 Skills
Torch: 2 Skills (1 Combo)
Aqua:
Spear: 5 Skills
Trident: 5 Skills
Weapon Load Out Combinations: 12 (14 Including Aqua).
Selectable Skills:
Slot 6: 4 (Healing Skill Slot)
Slot 7,8&9: Choice of 15 Skills
Slot 10: 2
Selectable Skill Combinations: 3,360
Total Combinations (Weapon&Selectables): 40,320 (Excluding Aqua Weapons).
Traits add another layer of customization.
Although ANet wants to keep the number of skills more manageable in GW2 than GW 1, I wouldn't be surprised to see some skills added to each class with future expansions.
This is really a personal question. All games with high replay value have repetative gameplay. I can enjoy a good FPS, which has far fewer skill combos than any MMO and still not feel it's repetative.
I've also played MMOs which have insane amounts of skill combinations and were extremely repetative. Plotting the number of skills, I don't think, is the answer to this question. Instead I would look at the types of Dynamic gameplay, and ask yourself whether or not it sounds fun to you.
If the answer is yes, then chances are the game will not feel repetative for at least a while.
With all the different weapon combinations and traits and different classes to play and Utility skills. I agree with most people who have replied that Anet will avoid repetition.
I understand that most people with 1/4 of a brain have figured out that I don't intend to ONLY use sword and shield for the entirety of the game. What I meant was that by level 80 players will undoubtedly have been using all weapons quite a bit. And I was using sword and shield as an example that players might get bored with the preset 5 attack skills on their attack bar seeing as they have been using the weapon combo often. So their, I put it in small words for the small handful of select individuals with traces of mental retardation to understand.
Now I gotta rack my brain for another possible weakness to the game...ugh...was hard coming up with that one :P
Comments
you do still have another 5 skills to use too though, plus you will need to swap to your healing build at some point or other so you dont die
Actual 1 button macros are quite impossible and gimps the dps of any character, and effectivness of tanking as well.
Macros are well made in WoW(unlike rift for eg) while they make gameplay more easier and less piano playing they don't actually think for you, or make effective rotations(and I am talking more than 50% less dps here)
Cant think of a spec that can play with something like this, and I played probably the most dumbed down spec in the game (arcane mage)
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Every combat system forcing you to use a rotation is repetitive..
GW2 lets you choose your actions based as reactions to what the mob is doing.... Its not aboout highest DPS numbers, but about surviving a fight while killing the ennemie... i.e. doing a rotation to get as high DPS as possible might get you killed really easy.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Warlock is not that hard, even PvP, and I played with one (MLS) during season 9, its basically get all dots up, and spread with soul swap. I'm not talking the cheer amount of skills you have, but the ones you actually use are fairly limited.
Also played a hunter in pvp during the KFC madness, and no, its not hard, not a lot of keys, and hunter in pve is fairly easy, just making sure you have enuff focus for a certain shot every 9-10 sec, and thats it.
In pve when you put it all down, and you don't have to do much for your raid (like controlling, kiting adds etc) everything gets really dumbed, and down to a set rotation of 3-4 main spells.
Anyway, don't want to get into that, as i'm derailing the topic.
Long story short: Every spec in WoW becomes a set rotation with very little proactive stuff to do, being most of it reactive
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
People who think combat can get repetitive MUST READ THIS:
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/traits-overview/
Traits is what determinates your build. They can seriously change how yours skills work.
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My Guild Wars titles
I know this isn't related to what you're talking about, but I wanted to point out that the 17 skills you mention are less than you'll have access to at any one time with a GW2 necromancer, if you include the 5 from first weapon, 5 from second weapon, 5 utility, and 4 from the Death Shroud they can access at any time they've built up sufficient Life Force.
GW2 won't let you have a ton of stuff on your bar, but when you think about all of them being useful vs the number of WoW skills you actually use, they're pretty comparable.
Also @ OP... Warriors are the masters of weapons in this game. Versatility is their thing. You have access to 9 weapons in 19 different configurations. And they do different things. It's not like another game where an axe = sword = mace. They give you totally different skills which can lend to totally different playstyles, especially when you consider customization through traits as well. In particular you're going to have legitimate ranged options you won't have in other games, not just using a bow for pulling or stats. Embrace the flexibility and choose the best tools for the job, don't lock yourself in to a sword and shield.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I'm pretty convinced that traits are the saving grace of repetitive combat. Constant tweaking of traits can keep things fresh instead of repetitive. But does ANYBODY have a list of traits for the classes yet? has Anet released them yet? I'd love to read them.
my question is, does every sword have the same skills as every sword?
same with other weapons, because it would be nice if Anet made them have diffrent mixes that are all viable (to keep one freom bing overpowered) i would think it would be cool that way
The only similarity between gw2 and wow will be the average amount of action in wow's PvP combat. Looking from hunter perspective.
I wasted 6 months in this ***** comercial game
/sad
Sorry, I don't throw pearls before swine in pointless threads. Whole topic can be summiarized by two sentences "Got bored with current weapon skills? Switch traits, weapon, profession".
Using the assumption of a warrior/guardian. Thief and Ranger would add even more complexity.
Sword plus sword 5 skills.
Sword plus shield 5 skills.
Sword plus warhorn 5 skills.
Sword plus torch 5 skills.
Sword plus axe 5 skills.
Sword plus mace 5 skills.
The only repetiveness is the Main Hand skills. That is still 12 skills to master in combination of the main hand ones.
Then add the trait system into the mix. That's a lot of combinations to work with while the system also keeps it manageable (you focused on the battle and not on timer bars/hactionbars).
Only possible downside is lack of different attack animations. And that is more a developement issue.
OP, I do not think you have much to worry about.
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i know this sounds silly but i was hoeping Anet would make the skills around the element the wepon is or other things like if it was clockwork, aparently its just for looks and effects, such as shattering
I have to ask, what game, that features combat (which is almost all of them), doesn't have repetitive combat?
I am pretty sure , that it is the combination of utillity skills , sekondary weapons , attributes and traits that will help you , but as for your question here is a link
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_traits
the guildwars 2 wiki has list for each class of traits that have been seen so far. But every thing is still subjekt to changes as the itterative workprocess that arenanet have, just doesn't make our knowledge that stable.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Main_Page
How about instead of berating the questioner about his particular statement, explain that you get a wide variety of skill based on the ammount of time you use said weapon (Realistic is it not) =D
As I was saying bro, you aren't pigeonholed into just 5 skills, as of right now, you get more as you use the weapon. And it seems you don't have to buy them! Weapon skills that is.
*Edit* Traits also drastically change what certain skills do, causing extra effects, increasing damage, etc. So even this, with over 100 traits per profession, you are set, it will be as repetative as you want. Mix it up Sr. Sword and board.
There are going to be plenty of situations where sticking with a sword and shield through thick and thin will hamper your progress and endanger the party. Plz give us your in game name so we all can avoid the headaches.
Look up and read what I said to the last guy and stop trolling someone with a simple question please. It isn't cool, he might be completely new, you don't know this guy, so don't go dropping crap like on him because he likes his sword and shield. And if you wanted to teach him how the game works you could've said this instead of being disrespectful:
"I know you may like your sword and board but certain situations may present itself where the sword and shield loadout may not be the most useful in the given scenario."
I don't know who pissed in your conrflakes, but telling someone "Hey I don't want to party with you because you might not fully understand the game" isn't going to make a positive impression, is not going going to make them receptive to your point of view, and it makes me sad this is the community I will put up with come release. Please be kinder to those who don't know as much as you, arrogance and rudeness are unbecoming of the members of this forum.
This is the actual combinations, based on the skills we currently are aware of for Guardian:
Guardian
Two Handed
Staff: 5 Skills (Plus 1 combo)
2H Sword: 5 Skills
Hammer: 5 Skills
Main Hand
Sword: 3 Skills
Mace: 3 Skills (2 Combos)
Scepter: 3 Skills
Off Hand
Shield: 2 Skills
Focus: 2 Skills
Torch: 2 Skills (1 Combo)
Aqua:
Spear: 5 Skills
Trident: 5 Skills
Weapon Load Out Combinations: 12 (14 Including Aqua).
Selectable Skills:
Slot 6: 4 (Healing Skill Slot)
Slot 7,8&9: Choice of 15 Skills
Slot 10: 2
Selectable Skill Combinations: 3,360
Total Combinations (Weapon&Selectables): 40,320 (Excluding Aqua Weapons).
Traits add another layer of customization.
Although ANet wants to keep the number of skills more manageable in GW2 than GW 1, I wouldn't be surprised to see some skills added to each class with future expansions.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
This is really a personal question. All games with high replay value have repetative gameplay. I can enjoy a good FPS, which has far fewer skill combos than any MMO and still not feel it's repetative.
I've also played MMOs which have insane amounts of skill combinations and were extremely repetative. Plotting the number of skills, I don't think, is the answer to this question. Instead I would look at the types of Dynamic gameplay, and ask yourself whether or not it sounds fun to you.
If the answer is yes, then chances are the game will not feel repetative for at least a while.
With all the different weapon combinations and traits and different classes to play and Utility skills. I agree with most people who have replied that Anet will avoid repetition.
I understand that most people with 1/4 of a brain have figured out that I don't intend to ONLY use sword and shield for the entirety of the game. What I meant was that by level 80 players will undoubtedly have been using all weapons quite a bit. And I was using sword and shield as an example that players might get bored with the preset 5 attack skills on their attack bar seeing as they have been using the weapon combo often. So their, I put it in small words for the small handful of select individuals with traces of mental retardation to understand.
Now I gotta rack my brain for another possible weakness to the game...ugh...was hard coming up with that one :P