There is not much you can do about it. They chose for the now traditional gearbased endgame without making use of the more modern difficulty scaling. So you get this clear division in difficulty. Solo gets the easy encounters, while groups gets the challenging encounters. It makes sense that the best gear in this system will be a reward for the challenging groupstuff. On the other hand, as soloplayer you wont need the best gear for solo activities. They made clear early on that they were going for this kind of MMO design. Just hope they dont make you repeat content endlessly because of poor droprates or a stupid diceroll system.
This design is of course not necessary. You can make a game as challenging as you want for any groupsize to make sure that people can work towards the best gear no matter what their playstyle is. As long as they are willing to overcome challenging encounters. But this asks for a more complicated gamedesign. It requires difficulty scaling for encounters for example.
Bioware took the easy way when designing the gameplay mechanics. Just be glad that they offer such compelling stories. I am anyway.
Well first off let me say; I don't normally agree with a lot of the ToR bashers on these forums, but in this regard to WoW clone and BW not changing things up. It looks like the trolls and ToR bashers where right, BW are following in the exact same footsteps as WoW and Rift. Basically if you want good gear in ToR it's raid or pvp,even crafting good gear means you have to raid for the mats. So it looks like the solo players gets it up the rear once again, you only have two options in which to progress your character at endgame. PvP or raid, I like raiding and I like pvp but I don't like for that to be the only option as far as progression goes. I have been doing that same old song and dance for the last ten years and quiet frankly it loses it's appeal very quickly, the whole solo planet thing is probably nothing but a daily quest grind as is seen in WoW and Rift. Well it looks like ToR might be off the table for me, seeing as to how I am pretty much tired and burnt out on the whole raid and pvp gear grind. Here are some links and quotes for those that are interested.
11:14a - Q: Can moddable armor compete with Operations gear? JO: Only if you get mods or materials from operations. Crafters can build Operation-level gear with operations mats. Can't avoid Operations if you want endgame gear.
8:52p - Q: How are we tracking things to balance crafting, raiding, different playstyles?
8:52p - A: We have a lot of analytics to track things like this. Lots of dashboards we look at. Lots of internal metrics. We don't want tons of nerfing going on. Though that does happen in MMOs because they are rebalancing as an MMO grows over time.
8:53p - JO: The best gear in the game is going to come from the PvE Operations. So if you want to have the best gear in the game, you have to do Operations. You can also get gear that is nearly as good, but more specialized, from the PvP game. Those are our two highest stat gear and they're also the gear that we've reserved some of the best appearances for.
8:54p - DE: The tier right under that, that you're going to need to go get into that Operation, you're going to come see me (the crafter).
8:54p - GA: There are several different slots, and there are some slots that remain specific for the crafters to help with the best PvE and PvP gear. The difference between the PvP and PvE gear is around 10%. And crafting can help support that in a couple of the slots. And we're trying around in testing just to figure out specifically what slots those are.
8:54p - JO: And one thing to mention is the moddable gear. The thing about moddable gear is you can mod it with mods that are at the highest level. So you can, for example, take 10th level Jedi Knight robes that look like what Obi Wan was wearing on Tatooine. Which doesn't look so hot. But once you put all the mods in it, it will actually be as strong as some gear that you've got from Operations. However, to get those mods, you have to do Operations. So it comes back to, if you want to have the best gear, you have to do the high level Operation content.
First off: Think What mmo stands for. (Massive MULTI-PLAYER Online), in other terms its not really ment for solo play, Its a massive co-op and competitive game, I.E PvP
Just saying.
No really, REALLY think about what Multiplayer stands for. In no way does it mean that you must play with the other masses of players. It only means that you're playing a game with other players, but not necessarily together!
{a mode of play involving more than one player at one time in a computer or video game}
Just saying...
Id agree but also if you want to play a game with a persistant world by your self i would not recommend a P2P one. And with raid settings they are ment to show the true power of the beings in the universe. They wouldnt seem very powerfull if only 1 person was needed to take them down.
Well first off let me say; I don't normally agree with a lot of the ToR bashers on these forums, but in this regard to WoW clone and BW not changing things up. It looks like the trolls and ToR bashers where right, BW are following in the exact same footsteps as WoW and Rift. Basically if you want good gear in ToR it's raid or pvp,even crafting good gear means you have to raid for the mats. So it looks like the solo players gets it up the rear once again, you only have two options in which to progress your character at endgame. PvP or raid, I like raiding and I like pvp but I don't like for that to be the only option as far as progression goes. I have been doing that same old song and dance for the last ten years and quiet frankly it loses it's appeal very quickly, the whole solo planet thing is probably nothing but a daily quest grind as is seen in WoW and Rift. Well it looks like ToR might be off the table for me, seeing as to how I am pretty much tired and burnt out on the whole raid and pvp gear grind. Here are some links and quotes for those that are interested.
11:14a - Q: Can moddable armor compete with Operations gear? JO: Only if you get mods or materials from operations. Crafters can build Operation-level gear with operations mats. Can't avoid Operations if you want endgame gear.
8:52p - Q: How are we tracking things to balance crafting, raiding, different playstyles?
8:52p - A: We have a lot of analytics to track things like this. Lots of dashboards we look at. Lots of internal metrics. We don't want tons of nerfing going on. Though that does happen in MMOs because they are rebalancing as an MMO grows over time.
8:53p - JO: The best gear in the game is going to come from the PvE Operations. So if you want to have the best gear in the game, you have to do Operations. You can also get gear that is nearly as good, but more specialized, from the PvP game. Those are our two highest stat gear and they're also the gear that we've reserved some of the best appearances for.
8:54p - DE: The tier right under that, that you're going to need to go get into that Operation, you're going to come see me (the crafter).
8:54p - GA: There are several different slots, and there are some slots that remain specific for the crafters to help with the best PvE and PvP gear. The difference between the PvP and PvE gear is around 10%. And crafting can help support that in a couple of the slots. And we're trying around in testing just to figure out specifically what slots those are.
8:54p - JO: And one thing to mention is the moddable gear. The thing about moddable gear is you can mod it with mods that are at the highest level. So you can, for example, take 10th level Jedi Knight robes that look like what Obi Wan was wearing on Tatooine. Which doesn't look so hot. But once you put all the mods in it, it will actually be as strong as some gear that you've got from Operations. However, to get those mods, you have to do Operations. So it comes back to, if you want to have the best gear, you have to do the high level Operation content.
If you're not doing Operations, what do you need Operation-level gear for?
If you're not doing Operations, what do you need Operation-level gear for?
Nothing.
Not true. PvP would be the reason.
They talk about a 10% different between PvP and operations gear like it's nothing, however 10% is a pretty big difference in PvP. Especially when you have longer fights, which they seem to looking at the pvp videos.
Oh, and also looks (cosmetic reasons). They've also stated that they are reserving the best looks for operations gear. I know I'd like to have some of the cooler looking gear.
If you're not doing Operations, what do you need Operation-level gear for?
Nothing.
Not true. PvP would be the reason.
They talk about a 10% different between PvP and operations gear like it's nothing, however 10% is a pretty big difference in PvP. Especially when you have longer fights, which they seem to looking at the pvp videos.
Oh, and also looks (cosmetic reasons). They've also stated that they are reserving the best looks for operations gear. I know I'd like to have some of the cooler looking gear.
iirc that 10% was that PvP was 10% better at PvP then PvE gear.
best looks are somewhat subjective, what one likes in looks may be different from another, if you mean the most like for evil people most spikiest armor then yeah but best looks i feel change from person to person.
Good thing gear is moddable to the point where a low level armor can be equally good in stats as a higher level armor, even raid armor.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Solo players not obtaining with a couple evenings of casual playing, the same gear others slave for weeks in group to obtain?
PREPOSTEROUS!!!!1111111
I am a solo player, by the way, and i say, leave the gear that helps you raid to the raiders, what need do i have for it, to stand shiny and bright in a random hub?
A raid in WoW used to mean 40 players. A "raid" in TOR means 8.
If you can't find 8 players to play with, then you must be doing something terribly wrong.
hehe. You tell somebody that all of ToR's content can be seen with 8 or less players and they will scream, "Thats not an MMO!"
Then you tell them that the best gear comes from raid content and they scream, "Theyre screwing solo players!!"
Then you tell them that you can solo to max level and they scream "This is a lobby game!"
Then you show them objective based world pvp and they scream "Its not gonna be balanced!!!"
So you show them instanced capture the flag pvp and they scream "It BREAKS IMMERSION!"
Are you effin kidding me....
You forgot "If a type of feature wasnt in WoW it shouldn't be in TOR"
Sadly , this is turning out to be another MMO that starts big then dies off after a few months due to people being bored after their stories, mainly cause it offers nothing else besides raids and pvp (yawn) how many MMOs that have been released have these same things? All of them but what about other underutilized features from other MMO's what about some sandbox elements? If they can't even handle putting in same gender romance arcs for people who can enjoy them, what hope does any other cool ideas and features have in the future? Or has the genre become so watered down that devs can only think of raids and pvp after level or skill cap?
A raid in WoW used to mean 40 players. A "raid" in TOR means 8.
If you can't find 8 players to play with, then you must be doing something terribly wrong.
hehe. You tell somebody that all of ToR's content can be seen with 8 or less players and they will scream, "Thats not an MMO!"
Then you tell them that the best gear comes from raid content and they scream, "Theyre screwing solo players!!"
Then you tell them that you can solo to max level and they scream "This is a lobby game!"
Then you show them objective based world pvp and they scream "Its not gonna be balanced!!!"
So you show them instanced capture the flag pvp and they scream "It BREAKS IMMERSION!"
Are you effin kidding me....
You forgot "If a type of feature wasnt in WoW it shouldn't be in TOR"
Sadly , this is turning out to be another MMO that starts big then dies off after a few months due to people being bored after their stories, mainly cause it offers nothing else besides raids and pvp (yawn) how many MMOs that have been released have these same things? All of them but what about other underutilized features from other MMO's what about some sandbox elements? If they can't even handle putting in same gender romance arcs for people who can enjoy them, what hope does any other cool ideas and features have in the future? Or has the genre become so watered down that devs can only think of raids and pvp after level or skill cap?
FFS dude please not again.
And yes raiding and PVP form a big part of themepark MMOS. Just like FFA PVP/ Full Loot is a staple feature of sandbox MMOS. Even GW2 has 4 to 5 man dungeon raiding only difference is that they have taken out stats but one can still run dungeons for cosmetic gear.
Nothing like dulling away at archaic scripted PvE, just so you can get "The Best Gear" in the game. Still wondering what made Bioware opt for gear based PvE, over skill based PvE.
Also when are we going to see the war part of Star Wars with this "MMO"?
Well first off let me say; I don't normally agree with a lot of the ToR bashers on these forums, but in this regard to WoW clone and BW not changing things up. It looks like the trolls and ToR bashers where right, BW are following in the exact same footsteps as WoW and Rift. Basically if you want good gear in ToR it's raid or pvp,even crafting good gear means you have to raid for the mats. So it looks like the solo players gets it up the rear once again, you only have two options in which to progress your character at endgame. PvP or raid, I like raiding and I like pvp but I don't like for that to be the only option as far as progression goes. I have been doing that same old song and dance for the last ten years and quiet frankly it loses it's appeal very quickly, the whole solo planet thing is probably nothing but a daily quest grind as is seen in WoW and Rift. Well it looks like ToR might be off the table for me, seeing as to how I am pretty much tired and burnt out on the whole raid and pvp gear grind. Here are some links and quotes for those that are interested.
11:14a - Q: Can moddable armor compete with Operations gear? JO: Only if you get mods or materials from operations. Crafters can build Operation-level gear with operations mats. Can't avoid Operations if you want endgame gear.
8:52p - Q: How are we tracking things to balance crafting, raiding, different playstyles?
8:52p - A: We have a lot of analytics to track things like this. Lots of dashboards we look at. Lots of internal metrics. We don't want tons of nerfing going on. Though that does happen in MMOs because they are rebalancing as an MMO grows over time.
8:53p - JO: The best gear in the game is going to come from the PvE Operations. So if you want to have the best gear in the game, you have to do Operations. You can also get gear that is nearly as good, but more specialized, from the PvP game. Those are our two highest stat gear and they're also the gear that we've reserved some of the best appearances for.
8:54p - DE: The tier right under that, that you're going to need to go get into that Operation, you're going to come see me (the crafter).
8:54p - GA: There are several different slots, and there are some slots that remain specific for the crafters to help with the best PvE and PvP gear. The difference between the PvP and PvE gear is around 10%. And crafting can help support that in a couple of the slots. And we're trying around in testing just to figure out specifically what slots those are.
8:54p - JO: And one thing to mention is the moddable gear. The thing about moddable gear is you can mod it with mods that are at the highest level. So you can, for example, take 10th level Jedi Knight robes that look like what Obi Wan was wearing on Tatooine. Which doesn't look so hot. But once you put all the mods in it, it will actually be as strong as some gear that you've got from Operations. However, to get those mods, you have to do Operations. So it comes back to, if you want to have the best gear, you have to do the high level Operation content.
SWTOR doesn't really strike me as a MMO dedicated to crafters and a market system but I could be wrong. The game seems to want you to play a hero more than merchant vendor. Merchant vendors and big market type stuff usually fall under sandbox type MMOs which SWTOR is not.
Well in all honesty, when in any Star Wars books, movies, or cartoons did you see Larry the Armor Vendor save the galaxy with his awesome Ubese Armor of Defence +5?
Though I agree, it is the othe activities in a game other than killing stuff that helps flesh out the game, TOR is pretty much hero bait.
You forgot "If a type of feature wasnt in WoW it shouldn't be in TOR"
Sadly , this is turning out to be another MMO that starts big then dies off after a few months due to people being bored after their stories, mainly cause it offers nothing else besides raids and pvp (yawn) how many MMOs that have been released have these same things? All of them but what about other underutilized features from other MMO's what about some sandbox elements? If they can't even handle putting in same gender romance arcs for people who can enjoy them, what hope does any other cool ideas and features have in the future? Or has the genre become so watered down that devs can only think of raids and pvp after level or skill cap?
This, my friends, is what's called a Strawman Fallacy, which states that his argument is invalid. firefly2003 is trying to imply that because the developers didn't create a homosexual romance ability in their game, that all other factors of their game will be sub-par. If you cannot draw a direct link between homosexual romance and gameplay, then the developers must be incompetent? The statement is not only invalid, but also untruthful. Per your reasoning, because the game doesn't have flying purple hybrid unicorn-cupcakes, then the developers aren't able to create an enjoyable game for people to play. That is your logic, and it is flawed.
It all depends on how important certain gear is to your gameplay. If I do not intend to raid, I might not need the anti-fireball shield that is the only thing enabling me to tank the boss of multiple fireballs.
It all depends on the variety and choice of gameplay that can be found in end game. If there are enough activities that can be done with a variety of tools/gear, and that enough of these gears can be obtained via other means, then why scream?
Apart from epeens, most of the epic gear are useless unless you need to raid certain bosses.
I agree with the OP and everyone else that did too. There needs to be more options for the solo/small group player to obtain better gear than just the basic lvl 50 quest/dungeon sets.
The #1 argument that the raiders always bring up, "why do you need raid level gear if you don't raid?" ~ honestly why not, and why do the raiders care so much that we non-raiders have access to it. Does it make you special because you have more time and patience...no no it doesn't! If its in the game, then why can't every type of player earn it in one way or another, without being forced into a type of gameplay they dislike.
Why not do something like Rift is attempting and making the high end raids solo/small group possible, with weekly lockouts and similar low drop percentages. And each week you have the option to do said instance once while in a full raid or once while solo, maybe twice. Or add some kind of stipulation to the gear, like PvP arena gear in WoW requires you earn a certain rating to buy/use it.
Last I heard, isn't the end-game progression only consistent of like 20% of the total population playing of any given MMO, possibly less. Also why is every MMO post-2004 entirely designed to be solo and small group based, but as soon as you reach end-game you're suddenly forced to raid in large groups to progress!? And why is it always gear based, why can't it be horizontal stat-based leveling instead. {like FFXI and their Merit System...} It doesn't make sense to just drop the solo/small group gameplay upon reaching the cap if you want the best stuff, especially when the entire MMO is designed around the solo/small group player!
EDIT: Granted though, I do actually plan to get into operations more than I normally would because of the personal loot containers. Really my biggest beef with raiding is the DKP BS, the arguing over who gets what, ninjas, and overall the stress leading up to the boss that may or may not drop the piece of gear you want, and will you win the roll! All that should be gone in SW:TOR, but I will still continue to advocate for this gear to become obtainable by other means because I don't always like to raid!
SO what they have actually said is that the best gear comes from Flashpoints which are the smaller group quests. Heck, you can grab one friend and load up two companions and go. It will be harder to do Flashpoints with companion characters but doable. And for the record, I have checked on this. Companions can be taken on Flashpoints but NOT on Operations or Warzones.
They have also said the Raid gear is at best 10% better than other gear and you can craft that gear as well.
The good news is, this game is based in the same universe as 2 other games that you would most likely enjoy.
Yeah, and how one chooses to interact with other players in a "living world" is up to them.
My idea of mmo's is that you are plopped down in a world and what you do and how you do it is up to you. If one can get by without a group then fine. If one requires or wants a group or "needs" a group in order to accomplish certain tasks then fine.
I'm a die hard soloer and quite frankly I don't mind any mmo having group content or content that requires one to be a group. As long as I can go along and not be completely gimped in how I want to play then fine with me.
In addtion, you also disregard all the people who play mmo's just to socialize who don't care about grouping. I've been in groups where people never said anything at all and have spoken more with players just in passing while we were on our way to different places.
I don't understand why this is still a hard concept.
So the die hard crafter who wheels and deals and hires people to get mats for them but doesn't group isn't really playing an mmo "correctly" but the grouper who doesn't say a word, gets what they want and then drops before anything of substance is asked of him is?
In any case, again, I don't care if there are tasks/quests/areas that require a group as long as they do it correctly and make sure that it's not "join for group then drop in 6 minutes".
If there is going to be group content then players who like to group should be able to group up and make an evening of it. If I can go along and and still get decent enough equipment/skills so that if I want to join a group I'm not looked over then that's fine by me.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Hehe, at least this thread makes a nice contrast with all the "Swtor is an online single player rpg" threads and opinions vented here.
Agree lol. Like I've said before, everyone will never be happy. The devs are doing their job and doing the best they can to put out the best product to appease the most people they can. You're always going to have those purist who say it's too gimmicky, or those who say it's geared more towards this group of people, or that group of people. It's too this, or too that. Most of which could be answered simply by saying that this game hasn't even released yet, and for all we know, the developers will take the first year and adjust to what the players want. When WoW was released, it sure as hell wasn't what it is today. Some say it was better, some say that there weren't enough end game raids, most complained that getting 40 people attuned and together at one time was too much. Most people who complain don't even realize the full circle we've come as a genre. In '05, a "raid" meant 40 people who had done the attunement quest to get into the raid zone. Now it's 8 people, and people still find room to complain. I fear for what's next; one man "raiding team"!
Originally posted by crazynanny Raid or die was exactly why I stopped playing Rift after 1.5 month, despite having 3-month sub paid. It's sad to see same thing in ToR. To be honest I don't mind that there is a content for big groups. But I think there are better solutions than forcing people to hardcore raid or skip content and gear progression. Raiding and hardcore raiding guilds are like 2nd job, been there, done that.
Then I'm for 3-6 people group content at end game(or yet better scalable content, valid trough the whole game). I mean group content has more complexity and thus more challenge(than solo), but at raid point it's more about cat herding then each player skill. Still gear rewards should be at very same level as solo. I'm up for special titles, cosmetics or achievements though.
So you can tolerate 6 man content but 8 is just way too much?
As long as that 3/6/8/12/20/40 group content don't lock me from gear and story progression I don't mind it. My second paragraph was about optimal group size for me, so yea 8 is too much.
The problem with "what do You need raid gear for solo?" is about excluding solo people from one of the key thing in RPG games. Character development(via gear). This and story are two things that developers are doing wrong, by hiding them behind raids who are only done by minority of players. Group stuff should be purely for fun, titles, cosmetics and such fluff. Just look what gear treadmill did with WoW community. It's all about Your GS number...
Well in an upcoming patch Rift will be offering solo and small group dungeons for one, in which you can acquire some pretty decent gear. Not the best but also not the worst, as far as GW2 goes you can pretty much join in on the events if you are in the area. The game doesn't go from a fun leveling experience to an all out raid or die endgame, GW2 is more persistant. To be honest I was one of the biggest bashers of GW2, but after hearing the ToR announcements GW2 is looking like the better game, even Rift will be better than ToR after 1.5. After the personal story runs out than what? If you want to do endgame story content, guess what? that's in the operations. The whole solo planet thing is just another way of saying repeatable dailies. I was one of the biggest fanbois of ToR and couldn't nothing negative be said about it, without me coming to the defense. But now it looks like the raiders win out again, BW pretty much feed us bullshit back in 2008 when they said they weren't going after the raiding crowd.
WoW So you really think a Solo player should get loot drops thats just as good as the gear raids go after. You even admit rift will soon have solo instances that offer gear thats not as good as raid gear yet you bash SW:ToR for not screwing the groups and raiders.
Perhaps what your really looking for is not a MMO but Kotor or Kotor 2
I would dare you to name one MMO where solo players can get gear just as powerfull as what raiders get. You can't of course because all MMO basically understand more effort = shoild get more reward. If every player can just solo boss X for ubersword why would people go to the effort of forming raids to get the ubersword?
That MMO would be DAoC, and I'm pretty sure UO as well. In DAoC, the best armor is crafted by players, and then enchanted by spellcrafters to add boosted statistics. Of course, a player could also get some of the best pieces from the rare spawns throughout Trials of Atlantis, but the spawns are RARE and often camped.
Raid or die was exactly why I stopped playing Rift after 1.5 month, despite having 3-month sub paid. It's sad to see same thing in ToR. To be honest I don't mind that there is a content for big groups. But I think there are better solutions than forcing people to hardcore raid or skip content and gear progression. Raiding and hardcore raiding guilds are like 2nd job, been there, done that.
Then I'm for 3-6 people group content at end game(or yet better scalable content, valid trough the whole game). I mean group content has more complexity and thus more challenge(than solo), but at raid point it's more about cat herding then each player skill.
Still gear rewards should be at very same level as solo. I'm up for special titles, cosmetics or achievements though.
So you can tolerate 6 man content but 8 is just way too much?
As long as that 3/6/8/12/20/40 group content don't lock me from gear and story progression I don't mind it. My second paragraph was about optimal group size for me, so yea 8 is too much.
The problem with "what do You need raid gear for solo?" is about excluding solo people from one of the key thing in RPG games. Character development(via gear). This and story are two things that developers are doing wrong, by hiding them behind raids who are only done by minority of players. Group stuff should be purely for fun, titles, cosmetics and such fluff. Just look what gear treadmill did with WoW community. It's all about Your GS number...
There was no such thing as a gear treadmill before WoW. Gear progression didn't exist. So forgive me for not understanding why it's so damn important for you and others to get the "best" gear. I've always thought that the best things in MMO's was socializing, exploring, and cooperating with others. When you raided in DAoC, it wasn't to get gear, so that whole mindset never got me. I don't mind raiding, especially when it's only 8 people, as long as it doesn't turn into a job. Being able to see the content is enough reward for me, but some developer in WoW thought it was a good idea to add gear progression to raids to give people a reason to run a raid more than a few times. I've accepted that, but if it's going to be like that, then there's no real need for non-raiders to get that gear. They should be happy with the gear set they receive by doing solo quests if they're soloers, or flashpoints if they're "group only" players.
Comments
There is not much you can do about it. They chose for the now traditional gearbased endgame without making use of the more modern difficulty scaling. So you get this clear division in difficulty. Solo gets the easy encounters, while groups gets the challenging encounters. It makes sense that the best gear in this system will be a reward for the challenging groupstuff. On the other hand, as soloplayer you wont need the best gear for solo activities. They made clear early on that they were going for this kind of MMO design. Just hope they dont make you repeat content endlessly because of poor droprates or a stupid diceroll system.
This design is of course not necessary. You can make a game as challenging as you want for any groupsize to make sure that people can work towards the best gear no matter what their playstyle is. As long as they are willing to overcome challenging encounters. But this asks for a more complicated gamedesign. It requires difficulty scaling for encounters for example.
Bioware took the easy way when designing the gameplay mechanics. Just be glad that they offer such compelling stories. I am anyway.
If you want to play ALONE then dont play a MMO...
Id agree but also if you want to play a game with a persistant world by your self i would not recommend a P2P one. And with raid settings they are ment to show the true power of the beings in the universe. They wouldnt seem very powerfull if only 1 person was needed to take them down.
If you're not doing Operations, what do you need Operation-level gear for?
Nothing.
Not true. PvP would be the reason.
They talk about a 10% different between PvP and operations gear like it's nothing, however 10% is a pretty big difference in PvP. Especially when you have longer fights, which they seem to looking at the pvp videos.
Oh, and also looks (cosmetic reasons). They've also stated that they are reserving the best looks for operations gear. I know I'd like to have some of the cooler looking gear.
iirc that 10% was that PvP was 10% better at PvP then PvE gear.
best looks are somewhat subjective, what one likes in looks may be different from another, if you mean the most like for evil people most spikiest armor then yeah but best looks i feel change from person to person.
Good thing gear is moddable to the point where a low level armor can be equally good in stats as a higher level armor, even raid armor.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Solo players not obtaining with a couple evenings of casual playing, the same gear others slave for weeks in group to obtain?
PREPOSTEROUS!!!!1111111
I am a solo player, by the way, and i say, leave the gear that helps you raid to the raiders, what need do i have for it, to stand shiny and bright in a random hub?
Rawr.
You forgot "If a type of feature wasnt in WoW it shouldn't be in TOR"
Sadly , this is turning out to be another MMO that starts big then dies off after a few months due to people being bored after their stories, mainly cause it offers nothing else besides raids and pvp (yawn) how many MMOs that have been released have these same things? All of them but what about other underutilized features from other MMO's what about some sandbox elements? If they can't even handle putting in same gender romance arcs for people who can enjoy them, what hope does any other cool ideas and features have in the future? Or has the genre become so watered down that devs can only think of raids and pvp after level or skill cap?
FFS dude please not again.
And yes raiding and PVP form a big part of themepark MMOS. Just like FFA PVP/ Full Loot is a staple feature of sandbox MMOS. Even GW2 has 4 to 5 man dungeon raiding only difference is that they have taken out stats but one can still run dungeons for cosmetic gear.
Nothing like dulling away at archaic scripted PvE, just so you can get "The Best Gear" in the game. Still wondering what made Bioware opt for gear based PvE, over skill based PvE.
Also when are we going to see the war part of Star Wars with this "MMO"?
Who are you? Brad McQuaid?
MMORPGS might not be for you.
The MM stands for massively multiplayer.
The good news is, this game is based in the same universe as 2 other games that you would most likely enjoy.
Well in all honesty, when in any Star Wars books, movies, or cartoons did you see Larry the Armor Vendor save the galaxy with his awesome Ubese Armor of Defence +5?
Though I agree, it is the othe activities in a game other than killing stuff that helps flesh out the game, TOR is pretty much hero bait.
This, my friends, is what's called a Strawman Fallacy, which states that his argument is invalid. firefly2003 is trying to imply that because the developers didn't create a homosexual romance ability in their game, that all other factors of their game will be sub-par. If you cannot draw a direct link between homosexual romance and gameplay, then the developers must be incompetent? The statement is not only invalid, but also untruthful. Per your reasoning, because the game doesn't have flying purple hybrid unicorn-cupcakes, then the developers aren't able to create an enjoyable game for people to play. That is your logic, and it is flawed.
It all depends on how important certain gear is to your gameplay. If I do not intend to raid, I might not need the anti-fireball shield that is the only thing enabling me to tank the boss of multiple fireballs.
It all depends on the variety and choice of gameplay that can be found in end game. If there are enough activities that can be done with a variety of tools/gear, and that enough of these gears can be obtained via other means, then why scream?
Apart from epeens, most of the epic gear are useless unless you need to raid certain bosses.
Hehe, at least this thread makes a nice contrast with all the "Swtor is an online single player rpg" threads and opinions vented here.
My brand new bloggity blog.
You are mistaken. What appeals to me is the persistent world aspect and the world economy, not the group adventure aspect.
Why should you feel threatened by what other people do, or have? Does that honestly diminish you?
You do not speak for everyone.
Completely agree.
Yeah, and how one chooses to interact with other players in a "living world" is up to them.
My idea of mmo's is that you are plopped down in a world and what you do and how you do it is up to you. If one can get by without a group then fine. If one requires or wants a group or "needs" a group in order to accomplish certain tasks then fine.
I'm a die hard soloer and quite frankly I don't mind any mmo having group content or content that requires one to be a group. As long as I can go along and not be completely gimped in how I want to play then fine with me.
In addtion, you also disregard all the people who play mmo's just to socialize who don't care about grouping. I've been in groups where people never said anything at all and have spoken more with players just in passing while we were on our way to different places.
I don't understand why this is still a hard concept.
So the die hard crafter who wheels and deals and hires people to get mats for them but doesn't group isn't really playing an mmo "correctly" but the grouper who doesn't say a word, gets what they want and then drops before anything of substance is asked of him is?
In any case, again, I don't care if there are tasks/quests/areas that require a group as long as they do it correctly and make sure that it's not "join for group then drop in 6 minutes".
If there is going to be group content then players who like to group should be able to group up and make an evening of it. If I can go along and and still get decent enough equipment/skills so that if I want to join a group I'm not looked over then that's fine by me.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Agree lol. Like I've said before, everyone will never be happy. The devs are doing their job and doing the best they can to put out the best product to appease the most people they can. You're always going to have those purist who say it's too gimmicky, or those who say it's geared more towards this group of people, or that group of people. It's too this, or too that. Most of which could be answered simply by saying that this game hasn't even released yet, and for all we know, the developers will take the first year and adjust to what the players want. When WoW was released, it sure as hell wasn't what it is today. Some say it was better, some say that there weren't enough end game raids, most complained that getting 40 people attuned and together at one time was too much. Most people who complain don't even realize the full circle we've come as a genre. In '05, a "raid" meant 40 people who had done the attunement quest to get into the raid zone. Now it's 8 people, and people still find room to complain. I fear for what's next; one man "raiding team"!
I fail to see what the issue is.
Somebody only wants to play solo. So they will only get solist gear.
Another player only wants to raid. So yeah, they will only get raid gear.
A third player only wants to PvP. Same result - he only will have PvP gear.
If you want the best of the best you need to do all three things.
Well the problem is that OP wants to do everything you mentioned solo and still get the best gear.
Bite Me
The problem with "what do You need raid gear for solo?" is about excluding solo people from one of the key thing in RPG games. Character development(via gear). This and story are two things that developers are doing wrong, by hiding them behind raids who are only done by minority of players. Group stuff should be purely for fun, titles, cosmetics and such fluff. Just look what gear treadmill did with WoW community. It's all about Your GS number...
That MMO would be DAoC, and I'm pretty sure UO as well. In DAoC, the best armor is crafted by players, and then enchanted by spellcrafters to add boosted statistics. Of course, a player could also get some of the best pieces from the rare spawns throughout Trials of Atlantis, but the spawns are RARE and often camped.
There was no such thing as a gear treadmill before WoW. Gear progression didn't exist. So forgive me for not understanding why it's so damn important for you and others to get the "best" gear. I've always thought that the best things in MMO's was socializing, exploring, and cooperating with others. When you raided in DAoC, it wasn't to get gear, so that whole mindset never got me. I don't mind raiding, especially when it's only 8 people, as long as it doesn't turn into a job. Being able to see the content is enough reward for me, but some developer in WoW thought it was a good idea to add gear progression to raids to give people a reason to run a raid more than a few times. I've accepted that, but if it's going to be like that, then there's no real need for non-raiders to get that gear. They should be happy with the gear set they receive by doing solo quests if they're soloers, or flashpoints if they're "group only" players.