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Are you in favor of "grind to win" PvP?
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
A lot of MMORPG PvP nowadays is extremely item/level dependent. Meaning that if you spent longer grinding in the game, you willl have a significant advantage when you go to PvP due to their character being more powerful. Some games are worse than others here, but most MMORPGs are at least partially gear dependent.
So here's my question. Are you in favor of this "grind to win" paradigm? Please answer the poll below and feel free to comment.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Comments
My answer is hell NO; gear shouldn’t be more of a factor than player skill.
Voted in favor of with the following disclaimed. I think PVP gear should be PVP rewards. I also think that PVP done as it is in GuildWars where gear is not the ultimate force in determining a winner is an interesting concept.
1. Grind for decent basic gear to get into PVP.
2. PVP for better PVP gear.
3. Don't let any gear become so incredibly overpowering that a lesser geared opponent doesn't have a chance.
noted: I'm not a PVP'er. Old man reflexes and a grumpy disposition (sore loser) tend to exlude me from it.
I'm in favor, but I also would like to skill matter. I don't play much daily, max 1hour, but I think those who play more should have higher advantage. Maybe something like 60/40 or 65/35.
It's the founding principal of MMORPG's, people are rewarded for grinding up their levels and gear, take that away and you are left with... a FPS'er..... which is a totally different form of PVP.
PVP in MMORPG's was never supposed to be fair and balanced and the manical efforts spent trying to make it so (battlegrounds, arena combat etc) is a waste IMO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What's the logic behind that? I'm curious.
I voted "Not in favor of."
My feeling is that players who invest a lot of time in the game should have a NATURAL advantage by just being better at it. If the game is designed so player skill doesn't matter much even when you take heavy gear/level imbalances out of the equation, then it is a poorly designed game.
For an example of a great PvP game, look at Starcraft 2. You never get any artificial advantages in this game, yet you basically have no chance of beating someone who is a lot better than you. Skill really matters.
I do think that your achievements should give you some minor advantage though, that's why I didn't vote "strongly" not in favor of. I think the degree of advantage that you get in a game like MW2 or Black Ops is fine. The M16 (first level gun) can kill a maxed out player very easily.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Actually it would be closer to an MOBA than an FPS
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
But it doesn't have to be, and you can easily change things without a game becoming an FPS. Guild Wars 1 already did this. Nobody with more than 2 functioning braincells would consider GW1 to be anywhere close to an FPS, and yet it is retardedly simple with very little grind to get max-stat gear.
@Serelisk ;
It's just like Kyleran said, but I couldn't explain it
Not to mention that you could just make a PvP character the day you buy the game and be max level for purposes of PvP with ZERO grinding.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Guessing: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena? Small groups of players in an instance bubble battling it out, sort of like Halo*?
* if I understand Halo correctly, not something I've played
You got the acronym right, but it refers to games like Defense of the Ancients, League of Legends, and Heroes of Newerth.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Here's an idea, employ a rating system so that those who are perhaps less skilled get the better gear thereby giving those who are skilled a greater challenge. Rewarding those who are already skilled is out in my book, it just adds to the problem of imbalance. Those who are skilled don't have a challenge unless they are fighting someone of equal skill, and those who lack skill always end losing which gets worse when greater skill is rewarded, which in turn causes them to lose interest in pvp entirely.
*Braces for the expected blast*
Ah, who am I kidding, if they have a skill rating system to begin with they should just use it to match people of equal skill levels. This of course can only be done in battlegrounds and/or arenas.
Still in my experience it's always the same people who do well and get the greater rewards which in turn adds to greater imbalances.
I am against all kind of pvp in those mmorpg I have played since it seem to make the game content worse,pvp'ers call for ballance wich lead to less entertaining pve content. And I have never understood why pvp players choose to play an mmorpg for their pvp. Pvp does not need any kind of pve content at all,so the best thing would be to compleatly separate those 2 playstiles.
Try to have fun playing however you wish to play.
Yep I'm with your eventual conclusion that a "matching" system wouldn't be bad. This is how they do it in competitive games like SC2. You get placed in a league with players of similar skill and then advance or fall back into other leagues depending on how you do.
You also make another good point. In MMORPGs, players who play more have more skill. They also have better items from grinding. What sense does it make to give the best player a handicap????
It's like if you play basketball with Michael Jordan and Mike starts with a 15 point lead.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well grind shuld not be a big factor, but at same time , mmorpg's should NOT be balanced at all costs. Really battlegrounds , balancing buffs and nerfs , qq's etc just make me wanna puke.
Gear should not be everything but mmorpg's should not be FPS as well where teams are always equal in terms of numbers and gear ,etc
For this kind of fun there are FPS, rts and Dotas or games like Savage or upcoming Warhammer: Wrath of heroes. Really lenty to choose - I would hate to see pvp in mmorpg's turning to something like in those games.
For people like Kyleran: I'm curious how it is that you find "grind to win" be anything remotely enjoyable? I mean, when you join a PVP match and you either 1) stomp other players without any sort of challenge, and you know that it's not because you're skilled at the game but because you have "better gear," or 2) die over and over and over again, being mostly unable to contribue at all in a positive way to the battle, and not because you don't know your class, but because you don't have 8 hours a day to grind gear like some people. I just don't see where the fun is in either scenario.
why should there be grind in the first place ?
Grinding is a term used in videogaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or boring tasks not pertaining to the story line of the game".... qoute from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(video_gaming)
I think gear earned in Loot drops via random mob or boss should only effect your stats when fighting PvE, but I also believe PvP gear should only effect your stats in PvP zones. But those who wanna B**** about Loot drop armors while wearing PvP armor need to stfu. just because it makes your attempts at Ganking harder. I myself rarely PvP, although I have only lost to other players who are 3+ lvls higher than me, who also seem to wait until I start a fight with an NPC mob. You may think that is stratagy, I call it cowardice.
That is also why I prefer PvP zones over Open world PvP. That way PvE gear would be useless in PvP zones and Visa Versa.
also Open world PvP flagging options work well too.
Well I only think this "counts" for sandbox MMO's.
I haven't logged into LOTRO for a couple of years but from what I recall you don't gear your monster. They have base stats but the more kills/rep you get just amounts to new skills available. I think that's pretty decent idea except it doesn't satisfy those that want shinies new gear.
Overpowered gear from raiding ruins good pvp.
Just look at DAOC, before and after Atlantis was released.
Voted Not in Favor...
Going to be P2W very soon, with Isengard exansion in few weeks you will be able to buy skills from higher ranks for $. You can be rank0 and buy & use skill from rank 14.
Not to mention things like fear ,stun immunity ,etc for $
I voted the same but for a different reason. I believe that the gear should significantly matter in the outcome but should be easily obtained. Therefore a naked character should lose badly but a player should be able to obtain the needed gear through NATURAL gameplay rather than pointless grinds.