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Death penalty, full-partial-insurance loot, criminal/bounties

IzureIzure Member Posts: 518

Ok I get taking over cities and stuff, but without some death reward/penalties what do we got.

I think for it to be a good sandpark you should add some type of loot even if its partial or not your main items or the NPCs you hire to handle your city tasks drop something, even if they add insurance something is better than nothing.

 

Some will say, you will breed/attract griefers, if a game is built right and is a true sandbox/park, this won't happen.

 

You will have criminals, that have bounties, thus making a whole new feature.

 

I have no idea of the flagging system and havn't really checked up on it, but would like some other stuff to do then just build and take over cities. I mean you can only do that so much before you get bored, also you will only attract so many people with those features, more features the better.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Comments

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    I love full loot, thats why Darkfall is epic

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    www.incognito-gaming.us
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  • IzureIzure Member Posts: 518

    Ya darkfall was fun, but it traded A LOT of sandbox features/details for FPS combat, which IMO is a big no no. IMO the only thing darkfall had that I liked was full loot/fps combat, despite what people said the combat was fun, but the grind/ and the lack of every other sandbox feature killed it for lots, and lack of population made the game stale.

     

    Hopefully archeage adds those Sandbox features/details, even if the combat is just tab targeting.

  • Daimyo21Daimyo21 Member Posts: 66

    Completely agree with Izure. Darkfall also did not support solo and small group/clan players and so the game only emphasizes big clan politics. They needed a cap so players could enjoy end game without having to grind grind grind macro grind and basically endlessly be anything and everything giving new players a huge disadvantage and loss of appeal

     

     

    Edit

    Also arche age should really emphasize insurance and give the player a choice to go run back to his body to get his lost items if he didn't have insurance so having insurance saves him from having to go back but also gives the pker his items without him ever losing his hard work. Btw sorray for double post earlier. I'm on phone and mobile website doesn't allow edit

  • Daimyo21Daimyo21 Member Posts: 66

    dbl post removed

  • HaesoHaeso Member Posts: 18

    Originally posted by Daimyo21

    Completely agree with Izure. Darkfall also did not support solo and small group/clan players and so the game only emphasizes big clan politics. They needed a cap so players could enjoy end game without having to grind grind grind macro grind and basically endlessly be anything and everything giving new players a huge disadvantage and loss of appeal

     

     

    Darkfall didn't support solo/small group play? I routinely took on anything from 1v1 to 1v4 (At one point winning a 1v12 inside a keep, if you frequented the forums you should recognize my name.) before magic became commonplace.

     

    Darkfall was easily the the best solo/small group MMO in existence, hands down superior to every other MMO in that regard. The skillcap was so high before magic was dominant that if you were good, your enemies really felt it. The only disadvantage small groups had was they couldn't hold onto a player city by themselves, but you didn't need a player city to enjoy the best aspects of the game.

     

    Besides the real problems with sieges were the lack of force multipliers for the defenders and exceptionally low death penalty letting the larger side swarm in without regard to casualties. The reason real sieges were so bloody protracted in the past was because you needed a significantly larger force to take a castle by force, and doing so even with that larger force would still lead to massive casualties, but in darkfall item destruction wasn't in, only item drops, so simply winning the fight meant you not only gained the city but likely got a net gain of equipment. Plus the whole lack of force multiplication and death not mattering. I always felt that players should have only gotten one life during a siege, and couldn't reenter the area until it was over. Throw in walls that actually protect the defenders rather than make them sitting ducks, get rid of launch or at least make walls tall enough to prevent it from going over them, and you have yourself cities that can be hold by vastly inferior forces and even a small clan could have held on against hyperion or the goons.

  • thefinnthefinn Member Posts: 46

    Totally agree. But I think tab targetting is required to include the entire MMO demographic.

     

    This needs full or partial loot for world pvp. Otherwise it'll be like waiting for df again. I'd hate to make another mistake like that.

  • GreymoorGreymoor Member UncommonPosts: 802

    Originally posted by Haeso

    Originally posted by Daimyo21

    Completely agree with Izure. Darkfall also did not support solo and small group/clan players and so the game only emphasizes big clan politics. They needed a cap so players could enjoy end game without having to grind grind grind macro grind and basically endlessly be anything and everything giving new players a huge disadvantage and loss of appeal

     

     

    Darkfall didn't support solo/small group play? I routinely took on anything from 1v1 to 1v4 (At one point winning a 1v12 inside a keep, if you frequented the forums you should recognize my name.) before magic became commonplace.

     

    Darkfall was easily the the best solo/small group MMO in existence, hands down superior to every other MMO in that regard. The skillcap was so high before magic was dominant that if you were good, your enemies really felt it. The only disadvantage small groups had was they couldn't hold onto a player city by themselves, but you didn't need a player city to enjoy the best aspects of the game.

     

    Besides the real problems with sieges were the lack of force multipliers for the defenders and exceptionally low death penalty letting the larger side swarm in without regard to casualties. The reason real sieges were so bloody protracted in the past was because you needed a significantly larger force to take a castle by force, and doing so even with that larger force would still lead to massive casualties, but in darkfall item destruction wasn't in, only item drops, so simply winning the fight meant you not only gained the city but likely got a net gain of equipment. Plus the whole lack of force multiplication and death not mattering. I always felt that players should have only gotten one life during a siege, and couldn't reenter the area until it was over. Throw in walls that actually protect the defenders rather than make them sitting ducks, get rid of launch or at least make walls tall enough to prevent it from going over them, and you have yourself cities that can be hold by vastly inferior forces and even a small clan could have held on against hyperion or the goons.

    You did all of this through illegal macroing and by having a far superior character to any honest player. Try not to let your ego inflate here. Hitting 3 times harder and having over double the hp with conversions maxed while some people don't have all of them didn't make Darkfall viable for the solo player, it killed the game because people didn't want to fight god-like macro whore characters.

    So you're player skill was there I know that but don't pretend it wasn't down to your massively superior character.

    I agree with your last paragraph, being able to re-enter the siege with next to no penalty has always been a huge flaw in Darkfall however I havn't heard of Archeage implementing anything to deter simply ressurecting and running back at all. Rumours about stat debuff(?) Atleast Archeage however will require siege ladders, climbing, siege towers and battering rams to gain access into a city.

     

    '*4) Many players in the closed beta thought that the death penalty system is too forgiving for a spiritual successor of Ultima Online. What penalties the game has after release? Do you consider introducing more severe death penalties at the north continent?


    Regarding death penalties, we are considering item durability decreases and extended resurrection times. We could also add corpse runs. (We are not considering strong penalties such as experience point loss or item drops.) We have to find a balance to make death meaningful but not force players away from the game. In the Northern continent, there will be more opportunities to encounter players in other factions which mean more PvP. In such case, if death penalty is too severe, it would be very hard to enjoy the game. We will listen more about how the players think about the death penalty in ArcheAge.'

  • HaesoHaeso Member Posts: 18

    Originally posted by Greymoor

    Originally posted by Haeso


    Originally posted by Daimyo21

    Completely agree with Izure. Darkfall also did not support solo and small group/clan players and so the game only emphasizes big clan politics. They needed a cap so players could enjoy end game without having to grind grind grind macro grind and basically endlessly be anything and everything giving new players a huge disadvantage and loss of appeal

     

     

    Darkfall didn't support solo/small group play? I routinely took on anything from 1v1 to 1v4 (At one point winning a 1v12 inside a keep, if you frequented the forums you should recognize my name.) before magic became commonplace.

     

    Darkfall was easily the the best solo/small group MMO in existence, hands down superior to every other MMO in that regard. The skillcap was so high before magic was dominant that if you were good, your enemies really felt it. The only disadvantage small groups had was they couldn't hold onto a player city by themselves, but you didn't need a player city to enjoy the best aspects of the game.

     

    Besides the real problems with sieges were the lack of force multipliers for the defenders and exceptionally low death penalty letting the larger side swarm in without regard to casualties. The reason real sieges were so bloody protracted in the past was because you needed a significantly larger force to take a castle by force, and doing so even with that larger force would still lead to massive casualties, but in darkfall item destruction wasn't in, only item drops, so simply winning the fight meant you not only gained the city but likely got a net gain of equipment. Plus the whole lack of force multiplication and death not mattering. I always felt that players should have only gotten one life during a siege, and couldn't reenter the area until it was over. Throw in walls that actually protect the defenders rather than make them sitting ducks, get rid of launch or at least make walls tall enough to prevent it from going over them, and you have yourself cities that can be hold by vastly inferior forces and even a small clan could have held on against hyperion or the goons.

    You did all of this through illegal macroing and by having a far superior character to any honest player. Try not to let your ego inflate here. Hitting 3 times harder and having over double the hp with conversions maxed while some people don't have all of them didn't make Darkfall viable for the solo player, it killed the game because people didn't want to fight god-like macro whore characters.

    So you're player skill was there I know that but don't pretend it wasn't down to your massively superior character.

    I agree with your last paragraph, being able to re-enter the siege with next to no penalty has always been a huge flaw in Darkfall however I havn't heard of Archeage implementing anything to deter simply ressurecting and running back at all. Rumours about stat debuff(?) Atleast Archeage however will require siege ladders, climbing, siege towers and battering rams to gain access into a city.

     

    I never macroed, not once. Not in combat, not to gain skills. Know what else? I fought people and counted hits in the combat log, yeah my character was one of the most developed, it doesn't mean dick. It didn't make you swing faster, it didn't make you hit even twice as hard, I don't know what things are like now, but a r40 and maxed skills didn't double a r20 with basic level skills, nowhere near.  Again, without macroing Not even for a minute.. Every day I would protect my city while out gathering materials to build it, usually without armor and just a starter weapon + pickaxes/axe. and I would kill people that came at me, not because of those stats (Hint: Naked with a starter weapon means you deal less and have less effective HP than someone in banded with a r20, even if you're near maxed and they're in the 30s, by a pretty wide margin too..)

     

    You talk all you want about my character, but it changes nothing. Darkfall was all about skill before magic rolled around, I don't care how statted someone's character was 2v1 you were statistically at a disadvantage to even the most basic of characters back when all you had was a bow and a polearm. And as the game progressed that disadvantage kept growing and growing until skill became largely irrelevant with rainbow deathrays and couldn't-miss-broadside-of-a-barn AoEs. I never bragged about beating some random idiot 1v1, unless I was going up against someone with a reputation I didn't even consider it a fight, it was just free loot. I routinely fought naked just to make things fair when people challenged me to duels, the math doesn't lie, banded and r20 is better than naked starter weapon and stats. Nor does simply landing more hits than your opponent have anything to do with stats.

     

     

    Archeage has something potentially worse than launch to stay on topic, gliders, we'll have to see how airships and the counterpart AA stack up.

  • GreymoorGreymoor Member UncommonPosts: 802

    Originally posted by Haeso

    Originally posted by Greymoor


    Originally posted by Haeso


    Originally posted by Daimyo21

    Completely agree with Izure. Darkfall also did not support solo and small group/clan players and so the game only emphasizes big clan politics. They needed a cap so players could enjoy end game without having to grind grind grind macro grind and basically endlessly be anything and everything giving new players a huge disadvantage and loss of appeal

     

     

    Darkfall didn't support solo/small group play? I routinely took on anything from 1v1 to 1v4 (At one point winning a 1v12 inside a keep, if you frequented the forums you should recognize my name.) before magic became commonplace.

     

    Darkfall was easily the the best solo/small group MMO in existence, hands down superior to every other MMO in that regard. The skillcap was so high before magic was dominant that if you were good, your enemies really felt it. The only disadvantage small groups had was they couldn't hold onto a player city by themselves, but you didn't need a player city to enjoy the best aspects of the game.

     

    Besides the real problems with sieges were the lack of force multipliers for the defenders and exceptionally low death penalty letting the larger side swarm in without regard to casualties. The reason real sieges were so bloody protracted in the past was because you needed a significantly larger force to take a castle by force, and doing so even with that larger force would still lead to massive casualties, but in darkfall item destruction wasn't in, only item drops, so simply winning the fight meant you not only gained the city but likely got a net gain of equipment. Plus the whole lack of force multiplication and death not mattering. I always felt that players should have only gotten one life during a siege, and couldn't reenter the area until it was over. Throw in walls that actually protect the defenders rather than make them sitting ducks, get rid of launch or at least make walls tall enough to prevent it from going over them, and you have yourself cities that can be hold by vastly inferior forces and even a small clan could have held on against hyperion or the goons.

    You did all of this through illegal macroing and by having a far superior character to any honest player. Try not to let your ego inflate here. Hitting 3 times harder and having over double the hp with conversions maxed while some people don't have all of them didn't make Darkfall viable for the solo player, it killed the game because people didn't want to fight god-like macro whore characters.

    So you're player skill was there I know that but don't pretend it wasn't down to your massively superior character.

    I agree with your last paragraph, being able to re-enter the siege with next to no penalty has always been a huge flaw in Darkfall however I havn't heard of Archeage implementing anything to deter simply ressurecting and running back at all. Rumours about stat debuff(?) Atleast Archeage however will require siege ladders, climbing, siege towers and battering rams to gain access into a city.

     

    I never macroed, not once. Not in combat, not to gain skills. Know what else? I fought people and counted hits in the combat log, yeah my character was one of the most developed, it doesn't mean dick. It didn't make you swing faster, it didn't make you hit even twice as hard, I don't know what things are like now, but a r40 and maxed skills didn't double a r20 with basic level skills, nowhere near.  Again, without macroing Not even for a minute.. Every day I would protect my city while out gathering materials to build it, usually without armor and just a starter weapon + pickaxes/axe. and I would kill people that came at me, not because of those stats (Hint: Naked with a starter weapon means you deal less and have less effective HP than someone in banded with a r20, even if you're near maxed and they're in the 30s, by a pretty wide margin too..)

     

    You talk all you want about my character, but it changes nothing. Darkfall was all about skill before magic rolled around, I don't care how statted someone's character was 2v1 you were statistically at a disadvantage to even the most basic of characters back when all you had was a bow and a polearm. And as the game progressed that disadvantage kept growing and growing until skill became largely irrelevant with rainbow deathrays and couldn't-miss-broadside-of-a-barn AoEs. I never bragged about beating some random idiot 1v1, unless I was going up against someone with a reputation I didn't even consider it a fight, it was just free loot. I routinely fought naked just to make things fair when people challenged me to duels, the math doesn't lie, banded and r20 is better than naked starter weapon and stats. Nor does simply landing more hits than your opponent have anything to do with stats.

     

     

    Archeage has something potentially worse than launch to stay on topic, gliders, we'll have to see how airships and the counterpart AA stack up.

    I watched you macro to gain skills, even using exploits such as riding and casting at the same time to gain skills. More stats DOES make you swing faster and you did hit extremely hard. You weren't a bad player but your character carried you and you did take out what was considered very good gear at the time too. Your nearly/maxed conversions allowed you to last any amount of time compared to honest players who'd have a significantly smaller mana and stamina pool with no conversion gains.

    I'm just saying don't try to sit here and claim you didn't do things you did and that it was all skill. It wasn't.

    As for gliders, don't worry about them the airship is an NPC transport like the ones in WoW which have a set route. Just don't build your city under it's pathway.

  • Daimyo21Daimyo21 Member Posts: 66

    Originally posted by Haeso

    Originally posted by Daimyo21

    Completely agree with Izure. Darkfall also did not support solo and small group/clan players and so the game only emphasizes big clan politics. They needed a cap so players could enjoy end game without having to grind grind grind macro grind and basically endlessly be anything and everything giving new players a huge disadvantage and loss of appeal

     

     

    Darkfall didn't support solo/small group play? I routinely took on anything from 1v1 to 1v4 (At one point winning a 1v12 inside a keep, if you frequented the forums you should recognize my name.) before magic became commonplace.

     

    Darkfall was easily the the best solo/small group MMO in existence, hands down superior to every other MMO in that regard. The skillcap was so high before magic was dominant that if you were good, your enemies really felt it. The only disadvantage small groups had was they couldn't hold onto a player city by themselves, but you didn't need a player city to enjoy the best aspects of the game.

     

    Besides the real problems with sieges were the lack of force multipliers for the defenders and exceptionally low death penalty letting the larger side swarm in without regard to casualties. The reason real sieges were so bloody protracted in the past was because you needed a significantly larger force to take a castle by force, and doing so even with that larger force would still lead to massive casualties, but in darkfall item destruction wasn't in, only item drops, so simply winning the fight meant you not only gained the city but likely got a net gain of equipment. Plus the whole lack of force multiplication and death not mattering. I always felt that players should have only gotten one life during a siege, and couldn't reenter the area until it was over. Throw in walls that actually protect the defenders rather than make them sitting ducks, get rid of launch or at least make walls tall enough to prevent it from going over them, and you have yourself cities that can be hold by vastly inferior forces and even a small clan could have held on against hyperion or the goons.

     

     

    I followed DF since 2006, check Daimyo on the forums.  I played beta and I know the game like the back of my hand.  I agree, that DF had some of the best solo/small group PvP in the game.  TRUST ME, I had my great times in PvP.  I mean honestly, thats all DF had in beta/release.  PvE was more like gold farming because it was all bugged out.  Houses werent in back then, ships were soo expensive people wouldnt build for the longest time.  All the expansions would emphasive more PvP which is great.. but AV was soo blind to think that this was the problem.. the problem was a broken system of grinding/leveling/exploiting with a poor economy.  PvP at release was impossible to get away from.  6-10 months after.  Your constantly searching for it...

     

    What I meant by solo/small groups is there is really nothing to do after PvP/grinding/exploring.  At the time, you didnt have houses as well so think about how demoralizing it is that a huge portion of the game is missing since your not in a massive clan/alliance.  Some people dont want to be apart of that but still want to enjoy great aspects of the game but its almost impossible to enjoy it when it requires zerg status.  I just feel that the game is too hard on solo/small group players as they are already at a disadvantage without having a city (resources nodes) and the works.  If they lose a boat, thats 4-5 days of work to get it.  You think theyll want to play after that?  Clans make them like paper.. They should make them more affordable to newer players and not just think "Oh, 50 guys can build one in 1 hours so we will require a massive amount more for materials".  They have a wide variety of boats that would fit small groups but they are still very pricey when they really dont offer much (fuck rafts and little pinnace).

    DF 2.0 needs to let players be viable in PvP early on.. than itll give them more motivation and confidence to perform other goals (basically make leveling skills very easy and fast, month(s) to get to max skill from cap).  They need to get rid of time taxing tasks and make player goals more meaningful without making it too hardcore. I think DF also needs to think about adding customizable cities and houses to be built however players please (if only in a plotted area) and not in preset layours by the devs.  Maybe smaller portable forts, mini castles for smaller groups clans with limited restrictions (that are inexpensive and can only be destroyed, not conquered).  Overrall the depth of PvP isnt enough to keep a modern-day MMO'er interested in DFO.   Not eveyrone is a PvPer, actually only a quarter of the player base of MMOs really may consider themselves "killers" so PvP is forced upon them which is ok, but make the rest of the game more meaningful.  DF 2.0 needs compromises for a larger crowd to get the population booming and staying stable months after.  They need more depth to the game. 

    They need to learn something from ArcheAge as its the next sandbox MMO that has much depth in terms of spreading the enjoyment of the game out and making playing more meaningful. 

     

  • HaesoHaeso Member Posts: 18

    Originally posted by Greymoor

     

    I watched you macro to gain skills, even using exploits such as riding and casting at the same time to gain skills. More stats DOES make you swing faster and you did hit extremely hard. You weren't a bad player but your character carried you and you did take out what was considered very good gear at the time too. Your nearly/maxed conversions allowed you to last any amount of time compared to honest players who'd have a significantly smaller mana and stamina pool with no conversion gains.

    I'm just saying don't try to sit here and claim you didn't do things you did and that it was all skill. It wasn't.

    As for gliders, don't worry about them the airship is an NPC transport like the ones in WoW which have a set route. Just don't build your city under it's pathway.

    I didn't macro, believe whatever you want. I was at my desk every hour that I was playing, the closest I ever came to macroing was watching something on another monitor while clicking and not watching DF. I believe I spent around 10 hours swimming over night after a few months of refusing to do it after going to nearly every city/edge of the ocean and seeing it done everywhere had depressed me. I personally hate the idea of automated skillups, you need to remember how much time I manually poured into my character, I worked hard to get where I got, to at one point have the highest strength/hp on the server (still not twice as much damage or HP btw) and I saw all these people macroing/swimming over night, exploiting to get where I got with hard work, you think I liked that? That I was okay with that? It pissed me off, why I would do it myself, you're welcome to ask any of the people in wessex, there was a running joke and I even had a signature for it made my a herald - That put my title as the lumberjack, because every day I was out there farming for our city and protecting it at the same time, no macroing.

    I used the riding while casting glitch once on the way to a friendly city, and only casted conversions so I dind't run out of stamina or have to use potions, it was more for fun and to see how it worked than anything, if I used it any other times it certainly wasn't in combat, I make it a habit of not doing things that cheapen my acomplishments. I dueled anyone that wanted to, usually without magic because nobody wants to waste reagents for a duel. And every single time, we would count hits in the combat log even if I fought naked and them in gear - 9/10 if not more, I had more hits landed, I can't think of many fights that I won because of my stats/skills, the only things you could say they made the difference was during insane odds like when I waded into the VG on that ship 1v20~, killed their pilot half a dozen times over, slowing them down enough for the rest of the boarding party to get on board as well. I never had a higher than average dex, and I know for certain strength didn't make you swing faster. I played back when raising dex was near impossible.

    Also, the higher ranked conversions, they still don't make 1v2 equal, not even close I'm afraid. My character made very few of my more difficult fights wins, but against an average player 1v1? The stats and skills were irrelevant, Nyet Not was probably the only 1v1 in the entire game for me where my advantage helped me, and I still lost if I remember correctly. I was quite unused to fighting in water and missed a lot of shots because of that. All the other 1v1s where people came close to winning were either against equally or greater skilled/statted characters, unless you count the people I dueled dozens of times and came close to losing now and then (Keep in mind for 1v1s that I was called out for I considered losing/winning based solely on the number of hits so people wouldn't cry foul about my stats/skills.) Until magic rolled around, a developed character didn't make or break the vast majority of fights in darkfall, they simply didn't, don't pretend otherwise. After magic if you fought without it and they had it, yeah you lost, simple as that. But beforehand, back when conversions were the only common magic? It was all skill. Mainly who could juke in melee and who could maintain a moderately high hit percentage at medium range with a bow.

  • HaesoHaeso Member Posts: 18

    Originally posted by Daimyo21

     

    I followed DF since 2006, check Daimyo on the forums.  I played beta and I know the game like the back of my hand.  I agree, that DF had some of the best solo/small group PvP in the game.  TRUST ME, I had my great times in PvP.  I mean honestly, thats all DF had in beta/release.  PvE was more like gold farming because it was all bugged out.  Houses werent in back then, ships were soo expensive people wouldnt build for the longest time.  All the expansions would emphasive more PvP which is great.. but AV was soo blind to think that this was the problem.. the problem was a broken system of grinding/leveling/exploiting with a poor economy.  PvP at release was impossible to get away from.  6-10 months after.  Your constantly searching for it...

     

    What I meant by solo/small groups is there is really nothing to do after PvP/grinding/exploring.  At the time, you didnt have houses as well so think about how demoralizing it is that a huge portion of the game is missing since your not in a massive clan/alliance.  Some people dont want to be apart of that but still want to enjoy great aspects of the game but its almost impossible to enjoy it when it requires zerg status.  I just feel that the game is too hard on solo/small group players as they are already at a disadvantage without having a city (resources nodes) and the works.  If they lose a boat, thats 4-5 days of work to get it.  You think theyll want to play after that?  Clans make them like paper.. They should make them more affordable to newer players and not just think "Oh, 50 guys can build one in 1 hours so we will require a massive amount more for materials".  They have a wide variety of boats that would fit small groups but they are still very pricey when they really dont offer much (fuck rafts and little pinnace).

    DF 2.0 needs to let players be viable in PvP early on.. than itll give them more motivation and confidence to perform other goals (basically make leveling skills very easy and fast, month(s) to get to max skill from cap).  They need to get rid of time taxing tasks and make player goals more meaningful without making it too hardcore. I think DF also needs to think about adding customizable cities and houses to be built however players please (if only in a plotted area) and not in preset layours by the devs.  Maybe smaller portable forts, mini castles for smaller groups clans with limited restrictions (that are inexpensive and can only be destroyed, not conquered).  Overrall the depth of PvP isnt enough to keep a modern-day MMO'er interested in DFO.   Not eveyrone is a PvPer, actually only a quarter of the player base of MMOs really may consider themselves "killers" so PvP is forced upon them which is ok, but make the rest of the game more meaningful.  DF 2.0 needs compromises for a larger crowd to get the population booming and staying stable months after.  They need more depth to the game. 

    They need to learn something from ArcheAge as its the next sandbox MMO that has much depth in terms of spreading the enjoyment of the game out and making playing more meaningful. 

     

    Then I respectively disagree on what it means to be viable. I see your point, I merely see things differently. I played that game for one reason, to fight other people. I never felt like I couldn't do that just because I spent 90% of my time solo.

     

    And for the record, I quit around 6 months in, the game was no longer darkfall as I knew it. Magic ruined combat and the lack of things to do other than PvP combined to make it so the game turned into a ghost town. Honestly, the first few months of darkfall show just how popular and amazing a well made PvP game can do, the problem is that's all it was, there needs to be more than that to retain players. Personally if the population stayed and magic never existed beyond conversions (I like staying power from magic, everything else was just lame), I'd still be playing, I'd probably even have multiple accounts running just so I could convince my friends to play with me and see how amazing it was. Shit if someone reverse engineered that game and got rid of all the magic and made the world smaller, I'd go play that. The best times in that game were the first 2-3 months, more if you count the beta.

     

    And honestly, that huge portion of the game that was cities, it was overrated. You know what they provided? Something your enemies could destroy and take from you. Living out of a neutral city was some of my favorite times in that game. I understand their appeal and draw to those that never had them but quite frankly, cities were a hassle that provided only one actual thing: The rare ores, that was IT. Nothing else a neutral city didn't offer.

     

    As far as boats and what not, if you choose to be a small clan or solo, you need to accept that you'll have certain built in disadvantages. Disadvantages that NEED to exist. If it only took an hour to farm as a small clan a boat, then for every boat you'd have, they'd still have dozens more in an alliance, there are certain parts of the game you're meant to have numbers to access, and it's not hard to join a larger group. Personally I regret my time in wessex, I had so much more fun as a freelance once hyperion fell apart, I had offers to join every small clan but SN because they hated me and were basically dead. But I stayed solo, I technically was still part of wessex till the end, but I spent my time rolling with TM, living out of a neutral city, making life hell for anybody I came across, all by myself. I even continued to do it for almost a month after magic became popular, but I could stomach that for only so long. People I would beat without even trying melee/bow could automatically win magic vs melee/bow, though I hear anti mage and elemental bows made this a little better these days? I wouldn't know, those didn't exist when I played really =(. Again while I see where you're coming from, when I played by myself, I felt liberated from needing to defend a city, from needing to build these machines of war that were so fragile and only used for taking other cities... cities that would in turn need to be defended, and only provide a rare mine. Cities were overrated POS.

     

    As far as DF 2.0 - if you mean DF itself as another game, if they just scrapped magic it was competitive no matter how new you were imo. As far as keeping players interested, I already explained why the main time sink, cities, were bloody worthless and harder to defend than attack in many cases. If they'd made cities actually valuable and made them defensible, there'd have been more reason to play. Instead.. magic came and ruined small scale and large scale combat, cities were left worthless and hard to defend. And the game died. Sure it'd be nice if there were other things to do, but I insist the game would have been fine in the cities had been as I've said, and magic hadn't been the end all be all of combat for so long.

     

  • Daimyo21Daimyo21 Member Posts: 66

    Originally posted by Haeso

    Originally posted by Daimyo21

     

    I followed DF since 2006, check Daimyo on the forums.  I played beta and I know the game like the back of my hand.  I agree, that DF had some of the best solo/small group PvP in the game.  TRUST ME, I had my great times in PvP.  I mean honestly, thats all DF had in beta/release.  PvE was more like gold farming because it was all bugged out.  Houses werent in back then, ships were soo expensive people wouldnt build for the longest time.  All the expansions would emphasive more PvP which is great.. but AV was soo blind to think that this was the problem.. the problem was a broken system of grinding/leveling/exploiting with a poor economy.  PvP at release was impossible to get away from.  6-10 months after.  Your constantly searching for it...

     

    What I meant by solo/small groups is there is really nothing to do after PvP/grinding/exploring.  At the time, you didnt have houses as well so think about how demoralizing it is that a huge portion of the game is missing since your not in a massive clan/alliance.  Some people dont want to be apart of that but still want to enjoy great aspects of the game but its almost impossible to enjoy it when it requires zerg status.  I just feel that the game is too hard on solo/small group players as they are already at a disadvantage without having a city (resources nodes) and the works.  If they lose a boat, thats 4-5 days of work to get it.  You think theyll want to play after that?  Clans make them like paper.. They should make them more affordable to newer players and not just think "Oh, 50 guys can build one in 1 hours so we will require a massive amount more for materials".  They have a wide variety of boats that would fit small groups but they are still very pricey when they really dont offer much (fuck rafts and little pinnace).

    DF 2.0 needs to let players be viable in PvP early on.. than itll give them more motivation and confidence to perform other goals (basically make leveling skills very easy and fast, month(s) to get to max skill from cap).  They need to get rid of time taxing tasks and make player goals more meaningful without making it too hardcore. I think DF also needs to think about adding customizable cities and houses to be built however players please (if only in a plotted area) and not in preset layours by the devs.  Maybe smaller portable forts, mini castles for smaller groups clans with limited restrictions (that are inexpensive and can only be destroyed, not conquered).  Overrall the depth of PvP isnt enough to keep a modern-day MMO'er interested in DFO.   Not eveyrone is a PvPer, actually only a quarter of the player base of MMOs really may consider themselves "killers" so PvP is forced upon them which is ok, but make the rest of the game more meaningful.  DF 2.0 needs compromises for a larger crowd to get the population booming and staying stable months after.  They need more depth to the game. 

    They need to learn something from ArcheAge as its the next sandbox MMO that has much depth in terms of spreading the enjoyment of the game out and making playing more meaningful. 

     

    Then I respectively disagree on what it means to be viable. I see your point, I merely see things differently. I played that game for one reason, to fight other people. I never felt like I couldn't do that just because I spent 90% of my time solo.

     

    And for the record, I quit around 6 months in, the game was no longer darkfall as I knew it. Magic ruined combat and the lack of things to do other than PvP combined to make it so the game turned into a ghost town. Honestly, the first few months of darkfall show just how popular and amazing a well made PvP game can do, the problem is that's all it was, there needs to be more than that to retain players. Personally if the population stayed and magic never existed beyond conversions (I like staying power from magic, everything else was just lame), I'd still be playing, I'd probably even have multiple accounts running just so I could convince my friends to play with me and see how amazing it was. Shit if someone reverse engineered that game and got rid of all the magic and made the world smaller, I'd go play that. The best times in that game were the first 2-3 months, more if you count the beta.

     

    And honestly, that huge portion of the game that was cities, it was overrated. You know what they provided? Something your enemies could destroy and take from you. Living out of a neutral city was some of my favorite times in that game. I understand their appeal and draw to those that never had them but quite frankly, cities were a hassle that provided only one actual thing: The rare ores, that was IT. Nothing else a neutral city didn't offer.

     

    As far as boats and what not, if you choose to be a small clan or solo, you need to accept that you'll have certain built in disadvantages. Disadvantages that NEED to exist. If it only took an hour to farm as a small clan a boat, then for every boat you'd have, they'd still have dozens more in an alliance, there are certain parts of the game you're meant to have numbers to access, and it's not hard to join a larger group. Personally I regret my time in wessex, I had so much more fun as a freelance once hyperion fell apart, I had offers to join every small clan but SN because they hated me and were basically dead. But I stayed solo, I technically was still part of wessex till the end, but I spent my time rolling with TM, living out of a neutral city, making life hell for anybody I came across, all by myself. I even continued to do it for almost a month after magic became popular, but I could stomach that for only so long. People I would beat without even trying melee/bow could automatically win magic vs melee/bow, though I hear anti mage and elemental bows made this a little better these days? I wouldn't know, those didn't exist when I played really =(. Again while I see where you're coming from, when I played by myself, I felt liberated from needing to defend a city, from needing to build these machines of war that were so fragile and only used for taking other cities... cities that would in turn need to be defended, and only provide a rare mine. Cities were overrated POS.

     

    As far as DF 2.0 - if you mean DF itself as another game, if they just scrapped magic it was competitive no matter how new you were imo. As far as keeping players interested, I already explained why the main time sink, cities, were bloody worthless and harder to defend than attack in many cases. If they'd made cities actually valuable and made them defensible, there'd have been more reason to play. Instead.. magic came and ruined small scale and large scale combat, cities were left worthless and hard to defend. And the game died. Sure it'd be nice if there were other things to do, but I insist the game would have been fine in the cities had been as I've said, and magic hadn't been the end all be all of combat for so long.

     

    Completely agree.  I was in Sovereignty, we worked with TM alot on trades and stuff.  TM was smart and knew the value of a city was shit and ended up becoming rich and simply sieging a city later on when they were satisfied that it was fully built.  We had Dagnymyr, one of the fewer cities with all 4 nodes.  It was a joke to defend but we were a clan of 12 and survived 3 sieges from hyperion cause our guild leader was great politically but ended up making a poor strategic decision and eventually we lost it. 

     

    It wasnt magic necessarily ruining the game, it was the idea of no skill cap... Players had no identities and could essentially be god... DF 2.0 needs to think traditionally and make end-game fast, so that everyone is maxed skill and the true skill is in how they fight and use environment to kill their foes.  Right now I dont see 2.0 being able to attain my interests very long if they dont start becoming casual friendly in the sense of lowering the grind etc...  They need to take a few hints from ArcheAge which is definitly stirring up the competition.

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771

    Originally posted by Izure

    Ok I get taking over cities and stuff, but without some death reward/penalties what do we got.

    I think for it to be a good sandpark you should add some type of loot even if its partial or not your main items or the NPCs you hire to handle your city tasks drop something, even if they add insurance something is better than nothing.

     

    Some will say, you will breed/attract griefers, if a game is built right and is a true sandbox/park, this won't happen.

     

    You will have criminals, that have bounties, thus making a whole new feature.

     

    I have no idea of the flagging system and havn't really checked up on it, but would like some other stuff to do then just build and take over cities. I mean you can only do that so much before you get bored, also you will only attract so many people with those features, more features the better.

     

    Thoughts?

     

     

     "IF BUILT RIGHT" sounds like magical thinking to me.

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

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