i did play, and stopped before they merged with activision. but it's obvious from my above post, that i do not see that as something 'proper'... so yeah, my opinion does not change because of the game or developer. infact, i prefer AOC to WoW.
and with all respect... they shouldnt follow blizzard's example... they do not have the sheer number of zombies that WoW and all of the other titles blizzard releases have.
Exactly. Blizzard could offer a special deal where you pay extra to have some guy come to your house and beat you with a lead pipe, and WoW fans would still pay for it. You've got to be pretty out of touch to think you can successfully imitate much of anything Blizzard does with WoW.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
i did play, and stopped before they merged with activision. but it's obvious from my above post, that i do not see that as something 'proper'... so yeah, my opinion does not change because of the game or developer. infact, i prefer AOC to WoW.
and with all respect... they shouldnt follow blizzard's example... they do not have the sheer number of zombies that WoW and all of the other titles blizzard releases have.
Exactly. Blizzard could offer a special deal where you pay extra to have some guy come to your house and beat you with a lead pipe, and WoW fans would still pay for it. You've got to be pretty out of touch to think you can successfully imitate much of anything Blizzard does with WoW.
This I dont entirely agree on. Its fairly cheap to implement and looking back at various mmos with both item store(fluff store) and monthly fees, there is definately interest in it. Regardless its still fairly easy money.
Im definately no itemstore fan but in cases like these.. whats the harm?
One common theme I see with the defenders of this pay model is an almost naive expectation that FC will keep the CS vanity items only.
The reason I say naive is because FC has lied consistantly about AO and AOC. They continue to lie right now by claiming there are no items in their current CS that give advantages. Heck the new OPvP AOC server was not suppose to have any items which affected game play... They had them in there at release.
So until I see evidence that FC is sticking to their word, I will expect them to do what they have done in their previous two MMOs... Lie through their teeth to their subscribers. I am surprised that more people are not doing the same. I am interested in TSW, but I am not about to be mugged by FC while they try to placate me with empty promises.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
This double dipping and vanity items talk is bull shit. No way i can support this kind of model at all. Went from slightly interested in this game to not even gonna try it unless theres a free trial sometime. No pay i'm gonna way 15 bucks monthly have certain things they've developed within that time withheld cuz they know some sucker will pay for a rework or reskin of a vanity item.
Why do people think its ok, as long as its just vanity items?
In a F2P game, vanity items are ok, because the game has to make money somehow, and its better than pay-to-win items.
but in a game with a box price and a required subscription? No, vanity items are still bad, because the game doesn't need them to make money, and the only people who don't mind are the ones who don't care about vanity items. Anyone who does care about vanity items will wonder why they're not in the payed-for game like everything else.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Why do people think its ok, as long as its just vanity items?
In a F2P game, vanity items are ok, because the game has to make money somehow, and its better than pay-to-win items.
but in a game with a box price and a required subscription? No, vanity items are still bad, because the game doesn't need them to make money, and the only people who don't mind are the ones who don't care about vanity items. Anyone who does care about vanity items will wonder why they're not in the payed-for game like everything else.
Its mostly because vanity items have no impact on the gameplay itself, so there is no real need for said item. Most people don't really care about vanity items, so having a store that sells them for an extra cost has no impact on them.
In F2P games they sell more than vanity items. In most instances they sell statted items and gear that have a major impact on the gameplay, which kinda forces more players to use the cash shop for progression reasons.
Basically you might 'need' that $8 weapon because it is the only item that will help you break that stat cap you are at, but no one really 'needs' the Decorative 'Love Boat' hat.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
One common theme I see with the defenders of this pay model is an almost naive expectation that FC will keep the CS vanity items only.
The reason I say naive is because FC has lied consistantly about AO and AOC. They continue to lie right now by claiming there are no items in their current CS that give advantages. Heck the new OPvP AOC server was not suppose to have any items which affected game play... They had them in there at release.
So until I see evidence that FC is sticking to their word, I will expect them to do what they have done in their previous two MMOs... Lie through their teeth to their subscribers. I am surprised that more people are not doing the same. I am interested in TSW, but I am not about to be mugged by FC while they try to placate me with empty promises.
Could not have said it better. Thumbs up Atziluth!
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Why do people think its ok, as long as its just vanity items?
In a F2P game, vanity items are ok, because the game has to make money somehow, and its better than pay-to-win items.
but in a game with a box price and a required subscription? No, vanity items are still bad, because the game doesn't need them to make money, and the only people who don't mind are the ones who don't care about vanity items. Anyone who does care about vanity items will wonder why they're not in the payed-for game like everything else.
Its mostly because vanity items have no impact on the gameplay itself, so there is no real need for said item. Most people don't really care about vanity items, so having a store that sells them for an extra cost has no impact on them.
In F2P games they sell more than vanity items. In most instances they sell statted items and gear that have a major impact on the gameplay, which kinda forces more players to use the cash shop for progression reasons.
Basically you might 'need' that $8 weapon because it is the only item that will help you break that stat cap you are at, but no one really 'needs' the Decorative 'Love Boat' hat.
what you therefore want to play is a progressive RPG, not a semi-alive world as is an MMO.
since all you care about is gear as a means to an end and not as an end in itself, then why would you want to play an mmo where there is no 'end'. so yeah, here we start the redundancy all over again, i will not go into why it is inccorect to charge for in game items when a subscription is already being payed...
Item shop with subscription is just cheating, either give me everything or make it F2P so I'll spend 20bucks per month, either way that is all you are getting.
Im not a fan of cash shops even if it starts out as purely fluff. Its an open door to adding pay to win items down the road. However, the secret world imho is a breath of fresh air so i will at least give it a try. I think if i were to never try new mmos based on payment models, id have very little experience playing these games heh
One common theme I see with the defenders of this pay model is an almost naive expectation that FC will keep the CS vanity items only.
The reason I say naive is because FC has lied consistantly about AO and AOC. They continue to lie right now by claiming there are no items in their current CS that give advantages. Heck the new OPvP AOC server was not suppose to have any items which affected game play... They had them in there at release.
So until I see evidence that FC is sticking to their word, I will expect them to do what they have done in their previous two MMOs... Lie through their teeth to their subscribers. I am surprised that more people are not doing the same. I am interested in TSW, but I am not about to be mugged by FC while they try to placate me with empty promises.
At this point there is no reason to believe otherwise either. The itemshop pre-FTP didnt really offer anything gamebreaking.
UNless you rever to the tortage package, which is nice.. at low lvl.
Now they are free to play, the extended the asortion of products on it. While I still dont believe actual game breaking items belong in an item shop, it is consistant with the FTP concept.
Downloading Aoc as we speak so Im holding my judgement on how game breaking it products are .. or not.
But since you accuse them of lieing. Im dieing to see your evidence of it. Im willing to believe you but I still want to see ANY form of proof, considering in most cases the "lie" turns out to be a missunderstanding, people assuming X when they didnt really said it. Great excamples of that are when a post is made (by any company) when a patch is estimated to be released, most of the time people ignite in a raging inferno because they took it as a promise.
It has nothing to do with being naive , there just isnt anything suggesting otherwise.And yes I did wonder about what may be added in the future, but again, most if not all hybrid models didnt really add anything game breaking at all.
Why do people think its ok, as long as its just vanity items?
In a F2P game, vanity items are ok, because the game has to make money somehow, and its better than pay-to-win items.
but in a game with a box price and a required subscription? No, vanity items are still bad, because the game doesn't need them to make money, and the only people who don't mind are the ones who don't care about vanity items. Anyone who does care about vanity items will wonder why they're not in the payed-for game like everything else.
Its mostly because vanity items have no impact on the gameplay itself, so there is no real need for said item. Most people don't really care about vanity items, so having a store that sells them for an extra cost has no impact on them.
In F2P games they sell more than vanity items. In most instances they sell statted items and gear that have a major impact on the gameplay, which kinda forces more players to use the cash shop for progression reasons.
Basically you might 'need' that $8 weapon because it is the only item that will help you break that stat cap you are at, but no one really 'needs' the Decorative 'Love Boat' hat.
So what if vanity items have no impact on gameplay. Its R P G - you dont play this kind of game just for power.
As long as they stick to their words, that items available to purchase are only vanity and that they are possible to obtain in other ways i have no problems with this kind of model. I dont mind other people spending spend extra cash to make the game better for me in the long run. I dont expect any gamebreaking items to be sold unless it eventually goes f2p.
At this point there is no reason to believe otherwise either. The itemshop pre-FTP didnt really offer anything gamebreaking.
UNless you rever to the tortage package, which is nice.. at low lvl.
Now they are free to play, the extended the asortion of products on it. While I still dont believe actual game breaking items belong in an item shop, it is consistant with the FTP concept.
Downloading Aoc as we speak so Im holding my judgement on how game breaking it products are .. or not.
But since you accuse them of lieing. Im dieing to see your evidence of it. Im willing to believe you but I still want to see ANY form of proof, considering in most cases the "lie" turns out to be a missunderstanding, people assuming X when they didnt really said it. Great excamples of that are when a post is made (by any company) when a patch is estimated to be released, most of the time people ignite in a raging inferno because they took it as a promise.
It has nothing to do with being naive , there just isnt anything suggesting otherwise.And yes I did wonder about what may be added in the future, but again, most if not all hybrid models didnt really add anything game breaking at all.
There is a big difference between game affecting and game breaking. I never claimed they had game breaking items in AO or AOC... They do have game AFFECTING items... They claim they do not and they claim that TSW will only have vanity items which by definition do NOT affect game play.
BTW having books that can increase base stats by 70 is pretty messed up. Being able to buy purple items from low level on is GAME AFFECTING. Forcing people to spend close to $20 at 80 in order to compete is game affecting (can't get AAs without expansion which has areas you can't access without being P2P or buying entrance vouchers).
The AO CS completely fubared the economy in the game. XP packs, yes drops... etc etc... Devs claimed when the CS came out that there would be no game affecting items.
So yes FC has lied in the past and there is no reason to trust them now given their track record.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Why do people think its ok, as long as its just vanity items?
In a F2P game, vanity items are ok, because the game has to make money somehow, and its better than pay-to-win items.
but in a game with a box price and a required subscription? No, vanity items are still bad, because the game doesn't need them to make money, and the only people who don't mind are the ones who don't care about vanity items. Anyone who does care about vanity items will wonder why they're not in the payed-for game like everything else.
Its mostly because vanity items have no impact on the gameplay itself, so there is no real need for said item. Most people don't really care about vanity items, so having a store that sells them for an extra cost has no impact on them.
In F2P games they sell more than vanity items. In most instances they sell statted items and gear that have a major impact on the gameplay, which kinda forces more players to use the cash shop for progression reasons.
Basically you might 'need' that $8 weapon because it is the only item that will help you break that stat cap you are at, but no one really 'needs' the Decorative 'Love Boat' hat.
what you therefore want to play is a progressive RPG, not a semi-alive world as is an MMO.
since all you care about is gear as a means to an end and not as an end in itself, then why would you want to play an mmo where there is no 'end'. so yeah, here we start the redundancy all over again, i will not go into why it is inccorect to charge for in game items when a subscription is already being payed...
Actually I myself don't really care if there is a cash shop or not. I am the type of player who plays a game for fun, not for gear and not for items. My post was just a view on why people don't care about a cash shop when it only sells vanity items.
I for one never buy vanity items in an MMO, nor do I buy any other item from a cash shop. I don't need some collection of polygons to make myself feel better than another player, especially if those items cost real money that can be better spent elsewhere. If someone else wants to spend $5, $10, etc on a virtual hat/shirt/fish-sword replacements, so be it. Has no impact on me or my gameplay...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
As long as they stick to their words, that items available to purchase are only vanity and that they are possible to obtain in other ways i have no problems with this kind of model. I dont mind other people spending spend extra cash to make the game better for me in the long run. I dont expect any gamebreaking items to be sold unless it eventually goes f2p.
Why do people think its ok, as long as its just vanity items?
In a F2P game, vanity items are ok, because the game has to make money somehow, and its better than pay-to-win items.
but in a game with a box price and a required subscription? No, vanity items are still bad, because the game doesn't need them to make money, and the only people who don't mind are the ones who don't care about vanity items. Anyone who does care about vanity items will wonder why they're not in the payed-for game like everything else.
Its mostly because vanity items have no impact on the gameplay itself, so there is no real need for said item. Most people don't really care about vanity items, so having a store that sells them for an extra cost has no impact on them.
In F2P games they sell more than vanity items. In most instances they sell statted items and gear that have a major impact on the gameplay, which kinda forces more players to use the cash shop for progression reasons.
Basically you might 'need' that $8 weapon because it is the only item that will help you break that stat cap you are at, but no one really 'needs' the Decorative 'Love Boat' hat.
So what if vanity items have no impact on gameplay. Its R P G - you dont play this kind of game just for power.
And you don't have to buy items for real world money either to enjoy the game.
Unless you are the type of person who easily gets jealous of some idiot who wasted a couple of bucks on a few pixels/polygons that have no impact on overall gameplay...
"OMG! He has the $5 cash shop gold, non-statted variant of the helm that you can buy from teh vendor... MY WORLD HAS BEEN SHATTERED!!!" /ragequit...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
At this point there is no reason to believe otherwise either. The itemshop pre-FTP didnt really offer anything gamebreaking.
UNless you rever to the tortage package, which is nice.. at low lvl.
Now they are free to play, the extended the asortion of products on it. While I still dont believe actual game breaking items belong in an item shop, it is consistant with the FTP concept.
Downloading Aoc as we speak so Im holding my judgement on how game breaking it products are .. or not.
But since you accuse them of lieing. Im dieing to see your evidence of it. Im willing to believe you but I still want to see ANY form of proof, considering in most cases the "lie" turns out to be a missunderstanding, people assuming X when they didnt really said it. Great excamples of that are when a post is made (by any company) when a patch is estimated to be released, most of the time people ignite in a raging inferno because they took it as a promise.
It has nothing to do with being naive , there just isnt anything suggesting otherwise.And yes I did wonder about what may be added in the future, but again, most if not all hybrid models didnt really add anything game breaking at all.
There is a big difference between game affecting and game breaking. I never claimed they had game breaking items in AO or AOC... They do have game AFFECTING items... They claim they do not and they claim that TSW will only have vanity items which by definition do NOT affect game play.
BTW having books that can increase base stats by 70 is pretty messed up. Being able to buy purple items from low level on is GAME AFFECTING. Forcing people to spend close to $20 at 80 in order to compete is game affecting (can't get AAs without expansion which has areas you can't access without being P2P or buying entrance vouchers).
The AO CS completely fubared the economy in the game. XP packs, yes drops... etc etc... Devs claimed when the CS came out that there would be no game affecting items.
So yes FC has lied in the past and there is no reason to trust them now given their track record.
Ok, I found a few minor items from the sub-model, the tortage pack (for lvl lvl), which was a slight extended version of what already in game through pre-ordering from certain stores, such as amazone for instance. They added 2 pets , one that added a buff that wasnt even noticeble at lvl the lowest lvls and a melee pet that couldnt even hit the target (if it even made it in time to even try).
So yes you are right they did have a few items that effected game play. That said the XP potions where also availeble through veteran tokens, which every player was getting just for being a paying customer. I have mixed feelings about those but then again.. lvling in Aoc is already rediculas fast.
Due lack of success they had to adjust the course of the game and change to a FTP model. But I gues they should have just let the game die instead of trying to find a way to bring in some money to keep the game AND company running.
But so far all I have is your word, I have yet to see any shred of evidance, probebly going to be hard to find, considering the xp RINGS where in game from day 1. The war mammoth/ rhino too for that matter, which at the time where the only (crappy) mounts with combat abilities. It was a god awfull mount but thats besides the point. These where ONLY availeble by pre-order.
In F2P games they sell more than vanity items. In most instances they sell statted items and gear that have a major impact on the gameplay, which kinda forces more players to use the cash shop for progression reasons.
Basically you might 'need' that $8 weapon because it is the only item that will help you break that stat cap you are at, but no one really 'needs' the Decorative 'Love Boat' hat.
So what if vanity items have no impact on gameplay. Its R P G - you dont play this kind of game just for power.
And you don't have to buy items for real world money either to enjoy the game.
Unless you are the type of person who easily gets jealous of some idiot who wasted a couple of bucks on a few pixels/polygons that have no impact on overall gameplay...
"OMG! He has the $5 cash shop gold, non-statted variant of the helm that you can buy from teh vendor... MY WORLD HAS BEEN SHATTERED!!!" /ragequit...
AoC is pay to win and it was claimed not to be, when an item shop goes into a sub game on day one the guy who buys items wins as was seen on Age of Conan's new PvP server.No is more like 7 dollars a piece for level 5 PvP gear or 3 dollars a stack for health, stam, XP potions. It will be a pay to win model if they are working on it before the game is out and will be a similar play to win model to Age of Conan. The motive is more money per player not making a great game to attract more players. They want one player to pay $45/month instead of three players paying $15. TSW is a budget production MMO so they just want to recoup money before everyone leaves. There is nothing wrong with a business model but it squeezes players.
Vanity items don't sell well, with exception to Second Life and a Warcraft mount but both of those games have millions of players. When TSW goes free they can make money on classes and instances but gear and pots will be the main income for a while. They need money and seem to be second guessing this game so expect many items that will be 100 times easier to buy than earn something similar or many little items like pots that give a huge advantage compared to players who do not pay. If XP pots are sold who gets the skills for the better build faster? So the guy who pays more wins more.
During today's quarterly financial presentation Funcom presented the initial overview on the planned business model for The Secret World.
At the presentation we revealed that The Secret World will feature a traditional paid subscription model combined with micro-transactions through an in-game store. This information was provided as part of Funcom's financial forecast going forward, and no further details were given due to the fact that we are still working on finalizing the model.
We are very excited about introducing an in-game store already from launch. Being able to integrate the store into the actual design of the game pre-launch gives us opportunities you do not normally get when introducing a store after you have launched a game.
We will be revealing more information about the store at a later date, but what we can say for now is that it will focus mostly on character customisation and convenience items such as clothing - of which The Secret World will offer a ton of variety! As developers we are being very careful in making sure that items purchased through the store does not give players any unfair advantage against those who do not use the in-game store.
Character power in The Secret World will be determined by how well you play the game, not how much money you are willing to put into it.
We look forward to revealing more about the in-game store as we progress towards launch!
Few publishers said same thing at start, that IS will not give any advandage in game, but we all know that it can change after "months".
I personaly have hope to check beta, monthy fee model its ok for me, if i enjoy the game. But after that statement regarding IS, i will check 2-3 months till i pay and see what IS will bring.
When I see in game store aka Cash Shop...I immediately think of pvp/pve advantages for the big spenders. They claim this will not be the case, and that it will be for fun cosmetic stuff (clothing, pets, etc). WoW is filled with talking flowers and pupy dog looking things from their store. Gamers in every mmo will buy virtual currency for pvp pve advantage anyway - so no matter where you go, if the game has a population gold farmers will thrive. So this really is NOT a bad thing. It makes sense to profit off of some fun side stuff for folks who are willing to buy - it's kind of how being alive in a massconsumeristic society (i.e., the United States) works.
As LONG as it does NOT give an advantage - they can sell dancing girls, bibles, and cigarettes, for all I care lol.
They have stated that the cash shop will have MOSTLY convenience and cosmetic items.
The mostly means that it will definately have at least one item which is neither cosmetic nor convenience.
Best listen to what they are not saying rather then what they are saying. Have they stated it will not have pay2win items? or do they use words like mostly.. Do they say it will not give any advantage or do they say it will not give any unfair advantage.. So some advantage then
Ask yourself why they cannot and do not say the cash shop will only have a few cosmetic items and maybe a non combat pet or two and some people need to stop fooling themselves that they said this.
They have stated that the cash shop will have MOSTLY convenience and cosmetic items.
This has me cautious. I don't like their pricing model but it exists in a good game, so be it. Obviously they think they can get away with it and make it pay off. i wonder if the P2P + MT is all in preparation for games to (in many cases) go F2P at some point in the future. Then the game companies have made X dollars from box and sub sales and the F2P is just dropping sub billing. Add a few items to the cash shop and there is the current 'trend'. P2Win.
*shrug* If there is a cash shop, I won't generally use it. Perhaps a couple of bucks to add to account storage or some such but nothing truly cosmetic.
I (and I am sure many of you) signed up for the re-registration/phase 2 of this game's beta. I don't do facebook for many reasons and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the option to sign-up (again) for the non-social networking option. Today when I read the full article, it appears that if you DO the social networking thing, use their pics and logos, signatures and whatever else to do their marketing, you MIGHT achieve the 'highest rank' and be invited to beta. No thanks. When I beta I really do beta test. Sure I get a feel for the game for myself but I really look for and report bugs, exploits etc. To do their 'saturation' marketing for them. Bother that and a twist for grin's sake....
...and this is where everyone should read very carefully what they actually said.
"We will be revealing more information about the store at a later date, but what we can say for now is that it will focus mostly on convenience item and character customization items such as clothing - of which The Secret World will offer a ton of variety! As developers we are being very careful in making sure that items purchased through the store does not give players any unfair advantage against those who do not use the in-game store"
Right there you have it from FC, mostly does not mean only fluff items. It just does not, no matter how you spin it.
How they define unfair advantage is also completely their decision, if they think selling armor and rare weapons is not an unfair advantage as you can get them in game as well (just that you have to run raids for 2 weeks) then by their definition thats fair.
I am not saying they do this with malicious intent, but one has to wonder why they phrased it like that.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
I don't really care if the game has a cash shop or not. What I do care about is a solid game that can deliver on it's premise of 3 faction pve-pvp. I have played several games that had cash shops (CoH, Aion, etc) and sometimes I bought things and sometimes i didn't. None of the items were game breaking in the slightest. Extra character slots were nice in CoH and a shugo pet to carry more items (Aion). They defintely weren't vanity items and had an impact on the game, but nothing that would help me win a fight. I left before EvE implemented its RMT system for vanity items (ie monacles) but I wouldn't have cared one way or another.
To the purests out there that will cross TSW and every other game with a cash shop out there, I wish them the best of luck finding a game out there to suit them. I suspect though that as time goes on it will be harder and harder to find such games but perhaps that will encourage someone out there to throw their hat into the ring and make one. For me it's the quality of the game that counts and that's all that matters. I won't be making any cash shop purchases until I am certain the game is delivering as a quality product.
Comments
Exactly. Blizzard could offer a special deal where you pay extra to have some guy come to your house and beat you with a lead pipe, and WoW fans would still pay for it. You've got to be pretty out of touch to think you can successfully imitate much of anything Blizzard does with WoW.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
This I dont entirely agree on. Its fairly cheap to implement and looking back at various mmos with both item store(fluff store) and monthly fees, there is definately interest in it. Regardless its still fairly easy money.
Im definately no itemstore fan but in cases like these.. whats the harm?
This business model has killed any interest I had in this game. Pure greed is what I feel motivated them to use this plan, so no money from me.
One common theme I see with the defenders of this pay model is an almost naive expectation that FC will keep the CS vanity items only.
The reason I say naive is because FC has lied consistantly about AO and AOC. They continue to lie right now by claiming there are no items in their current CS that give advantages. Heck the new OPvP AOC server was not suppose to have any items which affected game play... They had them in there at release.
So until I see evidence that FC is sticking to their word, I will expect them to do what they have done in their previous two MMOs... Lie through their teeth to their subscribers. I am surprised that more people are not doing the same. I am interested in TSW, but I am not about to be mugged by FC while they try to placate me with empty promises.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
This double dipping and vanity items talk is bull shit. No way i can support this kind of model at all. Went from slightly interested in this game to not even gonna try it unless theres a free trial sometime. No pay i'm gonna way 15 bucks monthly have certain things they've developed within that time withheld cuz they know some sucker will pay for a rework or reskin of a vanity item.
Why do people think its ok, as long as its just vanity items?
In a F2P game, vanity items are ok, because the game has to make money somehow, and its better than pay-to-win items.
but in a game with a box price and a required subscription? No, vanity items are still bad, because the game doesn't need them to make money, and the only people who don't mind are the ones who don't care about vanity items. Anyone who does care about vanity items will wonder why they're not in the payed-for game like everything else.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Its mostly because vanity items have no impact on the gameplay itself, so there is no real need for said item. Most people don't really care about vanity items, so having a store that sells them for an extra cost has no impact on them.
In F2P games they sell more than vanity items. In most instances they sell statted items and gear that have a major impact on the gameplay, which kinda forces more players to use the cash shop for progression reasons.
Basically you might 'need' that $8 weapon because it is the only item that will help you break that stat cap you are at, but no one really 'needs' the Decorative 'Love Boat' hat.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Could not have said it better. Thumbs up Atziluth!
what you therefore want to play is a progressive RPG, not a semi-alive world as is an MMO.
since all you care about is gear as a means to an end and not as an end in itself, then why would you want to play an mmo where there is no 'end'. so yeah, here we start the redundancy all over again, i will not go into why it is inccorect to charge for in game items when a subscription is already being payed...
Item shop with subscription is just cheating, either give me everything or make it F2P so I'll spend 20bucks per month, either way that is all you are getting.
Im not a fan of cash shops even if it starts out as purely fluff. Its an open door to adding pay to win items down the road. However, the secret world imho is a breath of fresh air so i will at least give it a try. I think if i were to never try new mmos based on payment models, id have very little experience playing these games heh
At this point there is no reason to believe otherwise either. The itemshop pre-FTP didnt really offer anything gamebreaking.
UNless you rever to the tortage package, which is nice.. at low lvl.
Now they are free to play, the extended the asortion of products on it. While I still dont believe actual game breaking items belong in an item shop, it is consistant with the FTP concept.
Downloading Aoc as we speak so Im holding my judgement on how game breaking it products are .. or not.
But since you accuse them of lieing. Im dieing to see your evidence of it. Im willing to believe you but I still want to see ANY form of proof, considering in most cases the "lie" turns out to be a missunderstanding, people assuming X when they didnt really said it. Great excamples of that are when a post is made (by any company) when a patch is estimated to be released, most of the time people ignite in a raging inferno because they took it as a promise.
It has nothing to do with being naive , there just isnt anything suggesting otherwise.And yes I did wonder about what may be added in the future, but again, most if not all hybrid models didnt really add anything game breaking at all.
So what if vanity items have no impact on gameplay. Its R P G - you dont play this kind of game just for power.
As long as they stick to their words, that items available to purchase are only vanity and that they are possible to obtain in other ways i have no problems with this kind of model. I dont mind other people spending spend extra cash to make the game better for me in the long run. I dont expect any gamebreaking items to be sold unless it eventually goes f2p.
There is a big difference between game affecting and game breaking. I never claimed they had game breaking items in AO or AOC... They do have game AFFECTING items... They claim they do not and they claim that TSW will only have vanity items which by definition do NOT affect game play.
BTW having books that can increase base stats by 70 is pretty messed up. Being able to buy purple items from low level on is GAME AFFECTING. Forcing people to spend close to $20 at 80 in order to compete is game affecting (can't get AAs without expansion which has areas you can't access without being P2P or buying entrance vouchers).
The AO CS completely fubared the economy in the game. XP packs, yes drops... etc etc... Devs claimed when the CS came out that there would be no game affecting items.
So yes FC has lied in the past and there is no reason to trust them now given their track record.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Actually I myself don't really care if there is a cash shop or not. I am the type of player who plays a game for fun, not for gear and not for items. My post was just a view on why people don't care about a cash shop when it only sells vanity items.
I for one never buy vanity items in an MMO, nor do I buy any other item from a cash shop. I don't need some collection of polygons to make myself feel better than another player, especially if those items cost real money that can be better spent elsewhere. If someone else wants to spend $5, $10, etc on a virtual hat/shirt/fish-sword replacements, so be it. Has no impact on me or my gameplay...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
This is how I see it as well.
And you don't have to buy items for real world money either to enjoy the game.
Unless you are the type of person who easily gets jealous of some idiot who wasted a couple of bucks on a few pixels/polygons that have no impact on overall gameplay...
"OMG! He has the $5 cash shop gold, non-statted variant of the helm that you can buy from teh vendor... MY WORLD HAS BEEN SHATTERED!!!" /ragequit...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Ok, I found a few minor items from the sub-model, the tortage pack (for lvl lvl), which was a slight extended version of what already in game through pre-ordering from certain stores, such as amazone for instance. They added 2 pets , one that added a buff that wasnt even noticeble at lvl the lowest lvls and a melee pet that couldnt even hit the target (if it even made it in time to even try).
So yes you are right they did have a few items that effected game play. That said the XP potions where also availeble through veteran tokens, which every player was getting just for being a paying customer. I have mixed feelings about those but then again.. lvling in Aoc is already rediculas fast.
Due lack of success they had to adjust the course of the game and change to a FTP model. But I gues they should have just let the game die instead of trying to find a way to bring in some money to keep the game AND company running.
But so far all I have is your word, I have yet to see any shred of evidance, probebly going to be hard to find, considering the xp RINGS where in game from day 1. The war mammoth/ rhino too for that matter, which at the time where the only (crappy) mounts with combat abilities. It was a god awfull mount but thats besides the point. These where ONLY availeble by pre-order.
AoC is pay to win and it was claimed not to be, when an item shop goes into a sub game on day one the guy who buys items wins as was seen on Age of Conan's new PvP server.No is more like 7 dollars a piece for level 5 PvP gear or 3 dollars a stack for health, stam, XP potions. It will be a pay to win model if they are working on it before the game is out and will be a similar play to win model to Age of Conan. The motive is more money per player not making a great game to attract more players. They want one player to pay $45/month instead of three players paying $15. TSW is a budget production MMO so they just want to recoup money before everyone leaves. There is nothing wrong with a business model but it squeezes players.
Vanity items don't sell well, with exception to Second Life and a Warcraft mount but both of those games have millions of players. When TSW goes free they can make money on classes and instances but gear and pots will be the main income for a while. They need money and seem to be second guessing this game so expect many items that will be 100 times easier to buy than earn something similar or many little items like pots that give a huge advantage compared to players who do not pay. If XP pots are sold who gets the skills for the better build faster? So the guy who pays more wins more.
When I see in game store aka Cash Shop...I immediately think of pvp/pve advantages for the big spenders. They claim this will not be the case, and that it will be for fun cosmetic stuff (clothing, pets, etc). WoW is filled with talking flowers and pupy dog looking things from their store. Gamers in every mmo will buy virtual currency for pvp pve advantage anyway - so no matter where you go, if the game has a population gold farmers will thrive. So this really is NOT a bad thing. It makes sense to profit off of some fun side stuff for folks who are willing to buy - it's kind of how being alive in a massconsumeristic society (i.e., the United States) works.
As LONG as it does NOT give an advantage - they can sell dancing girls, bibles, and cigarettes, for all I care lol.
They have stated that the cash shop will have MOSTLY convenience and cosmetic items.
The mostly means that it will definately have at least one item which is neither cosmetic nor convenience.
Best listen to what they are not saying rather then what they are saying. Have they stated it will not have pay2win items? or do they use words like mostly.. Do they say it will not give any advantage or do they say it will not give any unfair advantage.. So some advantage then
Ask yourself why they cannot and do not say the cash shop will only have a few cosmetic items and maybe a non combat pet or two and some people need to stop fooling themselves that they said this.
This has me cautious. I don't like their pricing model but it exists in a good game, so be it. Obviously they think they can get away with it and make it pay off. i wonder if the P2P + MT is all in preparation for games to (in many cases) go F2P at some point in the future. Then the game companies have made X dollars from box and sub sales and the F2P is just dropping sub billing. Add a few items to the cash shop and there is the current 'trend'. P2Win.
*shrug* If there is a cash shop, I won't generally use it. Perhaps a couple of bucks to add to account storage or some such but nothing truly cosmetic.
I suppose I was most disappointed when I read the full article here: http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/first_of_phase_of_the_secret_war_live_what_awaits_in_phase_two
I (and I am sure many of you) signed up for the re-registration/phase 2 of this game's beta. I don't do facebook for many reasons and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the option to sign-up (again) for the non-social networking option. Today when I read the full article, it appears that if you DO the social networking thing, use their pics and logos, signatures and whatever else to do their marketing, you MIGHT achieve the 'highest rank' and be invited to beta. No thanks. When I beta I really do beta test. Sure I get a feel for the game for myself but I really look for and report bugs, exploits etc. To do their 'saturation' marketing for them. Bother that and a twist for grin's sake....
Oh well.
...and this is where everyone should read very carefully what they actually said.
"We will be revealing more information about the store at a later date, but what we can say for now is that it will focus mostly on convenience item and character customization items such as clothing - of which The Secret World will offer a ton of variety! As developers we are being very careful in making sure that items purchased through the store does not give players any unfair advantage against those who do not use the in-game store"
Right there you have it from FC, mostly does not mean only fluff items. It just does not, no matter how you spin it.
How they define unfair advantage is also completely their decision, if they think selling armor and rare weapons is not an unfair advantage as you can get them in game as well (just that you have to run raids for 2 weeks) then by their definition thats fair.
I am not saying they do this with malicious intent, but one has to wonder why they phrased it like that.
I don't really care if the game has a cash shop or not. What I do care about is a solid game that can deliver on it's premise of 3 faction pve-pvp. I have played several games that had cash shops (CoH, Aion, etc) and sometimes I bought things and sometimes i didn't. None of the items were game breaking in the slightest. Extra character slots were nice in CoH and a shugo pet to carry more items (Aion). They defintely weren't vanity items and had an impact on the game, but nothing that would help me win a fight. I left before EvE implemented its RMT system for vanity items (ie monacles) but I wouldn't have cared one way or another.
To the purests out there that will cross TSW and every other game with a cash shop out there, I wish them the best of luck finding a game out there to suit them. I suspect though that as time goes on it will be harder and harder to find such games but perhaps that will encourage someone out there to throw their hat into the ring and make one. For me it's the quality of the game that counts and that's all that matters. I won't be making any cash shop purchases until I am certain the game is delivering as a quality product.