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Are real mmorpg's dead or am I just blind?
Hey everyone,
I'm writing this thread as a last ditch effort to find a home in the mmorpg genre. This is going to be an epic thread so I'll try to attach a TL:DR at the bottom. That being said, I will begin with a brief history of my mmorpg experience and what I'm looking for atm.
My history with mmo's started back in 97 with Ultima-Online, I was only a kid when it came out but my older brother got me into it and I was absolutely obsessed with it until around 02. I tried EQ1 out, but I quickly lost interest because the game felt very limited. Unlike the world I was use to I had to specialize my character from the get go, not even really knowing what I would like. I'll say the dungeon crawls at first were really awesome, the feeling of being in a group that depended on each other, the whole experience was a nice change from being mostly a soloist in UO. However, the monotony finally set in and I grew old of the pve grind and with no pvp to spice it up I found myself looking for something new.
I then discovered Asheron's Call I, there I was immediately reminded of what I had been missing. I played AC on and off from 01 till about 03. During this time I also took a look at Dark Ages of Camelot which was very similar in respect to EQ1, but the RVR really interested me and I ended up falling in love with it. I played DAOC from 03/04 until 06, and since then I have pretty much not found a game that I can play for longer than a month.
The list of games I have either beta'd and decided not to buy or played for the first month and canceled is epic. Just to name a few: Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call 2, EQ2, Lotro, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Vanguard, Aion, EVE, Darkfall and most recently Rift.
I did play WoW mostly because the raiding was actually fun when it was a challenge at least until I realized it was only a challenge because 90% of the player base are keyboard turning clickers.
TL:DR - I have been looking for a game where I don't need a full group of people in order to progress through, that has competitive PVP that isn't based solely on gear, that actually has real character developement and I'm not talking about those purple things you equip. Where the crafting plays an important role in the game instead of a gap closer between dungeon and raid gear or as consumables.
I greatly appreciate any advice and I look forward to hearing from you all!
Comments
I hate to say it, but join the club. Sounds like you probably already know what's out there, so I'd be surprised if you find many answers here.
There's some decent free ones (champions online isn't bad), but nothing like the old ultima. Eve was good for a while, but it's a very different vibe and I've heard with the latest updates it's basically on it's way out.
Basically people are waiting to see what SWTOR, TSW, and GW2 will be like. If they all suck, then you could probably say that yes, real mmo's are dead.
That said, this is a really good time to experience other things. I've been playing console games more often now. Just got the new Deus Ex as well, and it's an amazing game. SWTOR is a couple months away, so hopefully that'll pique your interest. Elsewise, I'm afraid you're going to have a fairly long wait.
I just wanted to hear a fellow mmo vet tell me that the good ol days really were the good ol days. I feel like I'm 60 and bitching about all the kids and their music, and I'm only in my 20's!
You pretty much said it all. There has not been a great mmorpg released in the past 12 years in my opinion, and nothing interesting (to me) is in the works either.
That's why my sig says what it says. been back almost 2 months now despite what a lot of people say about the game changing for the worse and the game being dead, etc... I am loving it and on a few of the shards it's doing pretty well population-wise too.,
Asfar as current/future mmorpgs go, I will have to wait until the next lineup gets announced, because nothing recent has even remotely sparked my inerest
LOL
Well... pass the geritol, ya old fogey! Here's a Depends.
(I gummed that smile cause my teeth are soaking atm)
While I agree at least in part with you...
This sounds a lot like people complaining that there aren't any good horses these days cause everyone is out riding them new fangled auto-mo-biles. The market has moved on past us. We either need to adapt and find something to like about the new games, or go do something else.
I just look at it like this, MMO's could have went in one of two ways, the way of the game, and the way of the simulation. The way of the game was the direction it took.
You'll basically get two replies here, those who wish it had taken the route of a simulation, will say they agree with your view, those who are happy it went the path of the game, will say they disagree, and plenty of games have been fun.
Game fans look for fun, sim fans look for deep game-play and realistic scenarios. I like both games and sims, so I really have no stake in this race.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Haha this thread basically sums up my MMO-history aswell...
The real problem is, that the new MMO'ers are all about instant satisfaction, such as boss-kills, items or levels. Where as, I care about the story going there. I freaking loved snare-kiting in EQ, I didn't care as much about the exp or the item. Just grinding it out, with a giant or dragon on my ass at all times. Or fooling around in frontiers with my group of close RL friends in DAOC fighting other gank squads. I loved the fact, that you knew the players in the other realms, going to the VN boards whining or applauding eachother.
I tried WoW in the beta, it didnt catch... Too newbie friendly - it seemed so easy. Then came AoC, had some intresting stuff with the Open PvP etc, but failed hard since it wasn't done nor balanced in anyway. Rift failed horribly aswell. There was no reason to PvP and the endgame, well you tried that if you had played WoW.
Im hoping that GW2 can change this, but I have my fears in won't. I mean, its not the first time threads like this has been started, we must be a somewhat wide audience, how come no developer is tapping into this market?
I think a big part of the continued appearance of this sort of post on these boards is because they are inherently asking, "Why are newer games only taking one path when many gamers love the other or both?". It's somewhat baffling when you look at the fact that most all new releases since the mid 2000's have been 90% game releases and 10% sims. You'd think with such a large discrepancy more dev teams would be trying to rectify it. What's wrong with having both games and sims still?
yup. UO rocked. I miss killing people with my pet dragon, owning a castle, and looting everything a guy had when I killed him.
LOL... You pretty much described half the population of this site, which has become the retirement home for tired old MMO players. Still searching for that light at the end of the tunnel, that doesn't spell the death of their MMO career.
Quite frankly I don't share the sentiments of the OP or anyone with similar sentiments, seeing how I'm fairly new to MMOs and the only reason why I find this genre worth my time is because of the promising titles on the horizon. Most noteably Guild Wars 2.
Two words: vocal minority.
Back in EQ's day there were maybe a couple million MMO players worldwide across all games then running. Probably less. And it's only some of those that still play, and still wish for the told days.
WoW has something like 10-11 million subs by itself. That comes from "new generation" MMO players that don't know or care about the old days. The new games are easy and accessible, and that's all they care about. It's kinda like how PC gamers gripe that the rise in console gaming has dumbed down games. It has, but it also brought in a LOT more gamers. IE a lot more money.
Fallen earth is going to be F2P soon, you might want to give that one a try in Oct.
Give it some time. By the time GW3 rolls around you could find yourself in a similar situation. Being so new to the genre and all how do you even know you haven't missed out on some of the older games you might have really enjoyed without having played them?
because a "sim" can only stand to make 30% (estimate out of my ass) of the profit that a "game" could potentially make. forget that fact that 30% of 25% of what warcraft has made is probably more than any two other games in the past 10 years combine. they are all shooting for neptune, yet most of them dont get past the moon. it really is mind boggling .. but then look at the rest of the world economy these days ..
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
A few of my RL friends first mmo was WoW as well as a really good buddies wife so I know the type. I started with UO what seems like ages ago now. I always thought that these games would continue to evolve into worlds with more depth and further challenge than those preceeding them. That seemed logical to me at least. Oh how wrong I was ><!
You're forgetting something. Yes they fail a lot more frequently, they also ARE a lot more frequent. Look on this site's list of MMOs, and count up all the currently active ones. Back in the days when EQ/UO/AC were the big dogs, there wasn't a tenth as many games on the market.
I will agree that I'd like to see more innovation. It's coming. Games like Rift and GW2 are adding little things, slowly. It's just not going to be "BAM! 100% new MMO everything different and awesome yay go!" It'll be gradual.
UO is a seriously tough act to follow. Many who have tried have failed or are failing.
My suggestion to the OP is to restate the question with a list of priorities. Given the diversity of players who frequent MMORPG.com someone is bound to know of something that meets, or at least comes close.
If WoW or games like it are satisfying the majority of mmorpg gamers needs and wants but yet a percentage of the entire mmorpg market doesn't want a WoW type game but a more simulation focused game, whether it be sand box or themepark, wouldn't it stand to reason that someone providing that alternative product could garner 90 - 100% of that market of disenfranchised players? I've heard it been said before that WoW gamers ( mmogamers that started with WoW generally) are just that, WoW gamers. Many don't play anything but WoW according to gamers posts on this site. I know many WoW players that don't play any other mmorpg's except WoW personally.
Even after removing my fanboy goggles, the only MMORPG that I see realistically fulfilling all your requirements is Guild Wars 2. I mean seriously, I've been following all the current major developments from SW:TOR, to Tera and yet only GW2 seems to have most (if not all) of what you want. I'll just list some of the confirmed features:
The Open World questing structure is completed replaced by Events that occur Dynamically. Most can be completed solo or with a small ad-hoc group.
When entering competitive PvP you are automatically bumped up to max leveland are given all the gear & weapons you need. So that everyone is on an even playing field.
The Personal Story is basically like an Old school single-player RPG but with VO.
The game is not a gear grind, because getting the best stats is fairly easy and even crafters can craft gear, with the best stats.
There's more but that's basically what covers what you outlined.
EvE, Darkfall(apparently not now) is as close as I've seen. I'm playing Age of Conan now, and it's all questing. I know there is hope b/c of the new server (PvP I mean), but that's about it. I still am logging into EvE b/c of who I play with but really EvE is all about who you are playing with.
I have no intention of bothering with SWTOR, GW2, or Tera. I am very skeptical of ArchAge, even though that may be worthy of a monthly sub. I am mostly looking forward to WoD from CCP in 2012 or whenever. Until then, play some Mount and Blade: Warband, BattleField 3 in October or some other dated, yet fun singleplayer game.
Good luck.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
Not trollin and not big fan of wow just recently started playing it,but first impression that WoW left me is the amazing huge world and tons of quests,not to mention the dam huge dungeons,the one at low levels not to mention bigger ones.Its just amazin game.Too bad most mmos fail nowdays and cant think massive
If you think WoW's world is massive try Vanguard. I think WoW might have caught up to it's land area but only with several expansions released. There are also many more dungeons in VG per character level range.
When I say realistic scenarios I'm referring to things like running a shop, needing supply from scavengers, multiple forms of crafting, community interdependance. Basically everything that set UO or SWG apart from EQ and WOW.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson