I don't know how many subs WoW has but I just had to address one point. There are people on this thread claiming that a public company cannot lie on in statements or the CEO would go to jail. You guys are living in a fantasy world even more unbelievable than Wow. Some examples:
1) Bernie Madoff ran the largest ponzi scheme ever for over a decade. He was never caught or even questioned even though he was reported to the SEC. He actually turned himself in.
2) All of the major banks in the US and Europe committed ongoing mortage fraud for years that crated a huge housing bubble. The collapse of the bubble decimated the world economy and the CEOs walked away with hundreds of millions in stolen money.
3) The banking system in the US is insolvent. To prevent this from becoming known, Congress ordered the FASB (accounting regulators) to allow banks to lie about the value of their assets. Specifically, the bad mortgages they hold are still being counted as good.
4) In 2008, the CEO of Bear Stearns appeared on CNBC and stated that his firm was just fine and had adequate capital. The firm collapsed the next day causing a multi month crash in the stock market.
Corruption is so endemic in the US financial sector that the government allowed the banks to collapse the economy.
Either some people have been living under a rock or perhaps, they are completely naive.
With all this going on, do you really believe that the government is going to go after a game company that lies on it's quarterly statements? If you do, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.
Simply put, would you place faith in a corporate report, with independent auditors, government audits, bankers, financial analysts all looking into it, with piles of banking, trading and other detail information alongside.
Or you would trust the armchair analysts who camp a site and expound visions?
Also, its 95% chance right now an expansion hits by end of Q2 next year (its been planned for a while now for q2, and if anything the cata backlash has got them to spin the wheels faster). Blizzcon will surely give the details. If it looks like the game will break out of its stagnant state then people will be much less inclined to try something new
This sounds more like wishful thinking to me. What will you do when the trend continues, and people will keep leaving WoW? Will you accept it as just how things go? And how will you feel about it when a considerable part of the people leaving WoW will play other MMO's and stay there? Is that an acceptable scenario to you, or are you saying 'this will never happen'?
There arent any accurate tools to gauge trends that I know of. Ive seen people use xfire numbers and such like that, but when its an EXTREME minority of the population using it its worthless. We know the full picture though, WoW was constant growth up until wotlk, it leveled out some during wrath, slight increase, and Cata was a dud and paying customers have decreased by about 8% since then. this is form the numbers we have been given, and Blizzard is honest enough about the negative numbers that there is little reason to doubt them (they have publicly stated that more people are ex-WoW players than current WoW pkayers for example)
For sampling, you don't need to have the choice and opinion of the whole population, that's how market research and polling before political elections work.
So far, the trend seems to be that the numbers of WoW are in decline, seen in activity monitoring tools and confirmed by Blizzard themselves. That isn't a steep decline, but a gradual none, yet decline in numbers nonetheless. However, I doubt that it'll remain a gradual decline when the new AAA MMO's start arriving.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Had 3 for the family, now 0. Even went as far as to delete every character on my account which was a 70+ of every class. Quit a month after Cataclysm, went back for a week .... and said " why oh why do I keep doing this to myself?" Game isn't bad ... just super bored and it doesnt hold my interest anymore and they have failed to add enough over the years other than the same old stuff. But after 6 years, It would most likely be like that with any game.
Including myself I came up with 11 ppl (friends, family, colleagues) which played WoW with enthusiasm but lost interest. Now that I think off, I don't personally know anyone anymore activly playing it. Hell, even my 50+y old mother played it (not casual, full raiding & everything) and blizz managed to get her bored.
I personally do not hate either WoW or Blizz. I stopped soon enough to not get into the "hate it" situation. It was a fun ride for a few years with some nice memorys. Now after a good 2y hiatus I might even take a look back into it when this transgriefmorphthingstuff... err... this appearance tab wannabe gets released. IMO first meaningfull addition to that game since.. uhh... cannot remember. Till now it was all the same, fire & forget additions without meaningful persistance to the avatar. I mean come on, regardsless how cool a dungeon was, after the third or tops the fourth time it was just *yawn* + the usual realearn how your class works every three months because it will never be the same again.
*sigh* Now I'm confused. Maybe I just keep the good memory... but then again... Oh damn you Blizzard
Had 3 for the family, now 0. Even went as far as to delete every character on my account which was a 70+ of every class. Quit a month after Cataclysm, went back for a week .... and said " why oh why do I keep doing this to myself?" Game isn't bad ... just super bored and it doesnt hold my interest anymore and they have failed to add enough over the years other than the same old stuff. But after 6 years, It would most likely be like that with any game.
This exactly is why I feel sad, very very sad. I have been playing the same few games for a years, rotating out SWG, DAoC, and then CoX ... until I have to abandon WoW. These games are just too old, and after trying out everything over a span of 10+ years, it just feel too familiar. After UO/EQ, the only few games that I really enjoy are already listed above. That is all.
Why do we do that to ourselves? Why do I hang on to the same old list of games? Because the new games just does not cut it, for me. I have to go to GoG to find old RPGs, I have to replay Oblivion, ME, DA:O and DA2, just to kill time, because the MMOs are just aweful.
WoW is good but after 7 years? Why can't someone build something that can complement it, not replace. In the IT field, in any field, a product is cycled out within 5 years, as obsolete. Yet WoW is growing and growing for 7 years, till the recent months. How bad the rest of the competition is, shame on them all.
I don't know how many subs WoW has but I just had to address one point. There are people on this thread claiming that a public company cannot lie on in statements or the CEO would go to jail. You guys are living in a fantasy world even more unbelievable than Wow. Some examples:
1) Bernie Madoff ran the largest ponzi scheme ever for over a decade. He was never caught or even questioned even though he was reported to the SEC. He actually turned himself in.
2) All of the major banks in the US and Europe committed ongoing mortage fraud for years that crated a huge housing bubble. The collapse of the bubble decimated the world economy and the CEOs walked away with hundreds of millions in stolen money.
3) The banking system in the US is insolvent. To prevent this from becoming known, Congress ordered the FASB (accounting regulators) to allow banks to lie about the value of their assets. Specifically, the bad mortgages they hold are still being counted as good.
4) In 2008, the CEO of Bear Stearns appeared on CNBC and stated that his firm was just fine and had adequate capital. The firm collapsed the next day causing a multi month crash in the stock market.
Corruption is so endemic in the US financial sector that the government allowed the banks to collapse the economy.
Either some people have been living under a rock or perhaps, they are completely naive.
With all this going on, do you really believe that the government is going to go after a game company that lies on it's quarterly statements? If you do, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.
None of that is the same as falsifying sales records.
It wasn't mortgage fraud. It was arm asset tranferrance - "bad loans". You paid real money for a real house that existed, whether or not you're stupid enough to pay for an arm loan doesn't make it fraud. Then your loan was sold for a higher rate to someone else. You're referrening to pure financial system manipulation. Anyone who bought a house in that system is a guilty as the banks.
The banks were granted exceptions for the good of the entire US financial system, it's not some game.
Saying on TV your company is fine is not the same as generating a false investors statement, and taking peoples money.
It's very easy to tell when a company lies to investors. The investors don't get paid, and people start getting arrested.
You are obviously a conspiracy theorist, this stuff is highly illegal, and thousands of people have been jailed for financial fraud.
And finally, I will trust articles, financial reports, and experts over some guy who thinks the game is bleeding because some of his freinds quit.
Blizzard don't have to lie about their sub numbers or falsify their records. In order to cover up any loss in subscribers in the Western markets, all they had to do is stop releasing data showing subscriber numbers breakdown by regions and boost their Asian subscribers to cover any shortfalls in the West.
Blizzard used to release subscriber numbers per region/market but they stopped doing that more than 2 years ago. When WOW was banned in China, Blizzard kept quiet about sub numbers until it was unbanned and Cataclysm was released. It is clear to see that WOW is in decline in Western markets; no new servers were introduced since WOTLK and there are many realms with low to medium population.
A Chinese subscriber is not the same as a Western subscriber. In China, you don't buy the actual game and all expansions are free. Unlike in the West where we pay a monthly subscription, in China they pay per hour via time cards. Therefore, someone in China can pay $1 for x hours of play and just log in once in the past month and he/she will be counted towards the 11 million subscribers.
It is pretty obvious that a Chinese sub is not as valuable as a Western sub but where did the extra profits came from? Paid services of course! Blizzard knew that their income from subscription fees are decreasing due to loss in lucrative Western subs so they went all out on the cash shop. Paid faction transfers, server transfers, name changes, shiny pony mounts, cute pets, real-id cross-server grouping fee. Need I say more? Blizzard simply fleece more cash from existing customers.
We know that subs in markets like China are growing. The fact that they still announce an overall sub decline of 1 million despite the increase in Asian subs clearly means that they must have suffered horrendous losses in the Western market that are much greater than 1 million. I am going to speculate here that the Western sub losses are probably greater than 2 million but the increased Asian subs help cover up this loss and soften the bad news.
Just look at Blizzard's behaviour and announcements the last few months. Have you noticed that when you cancel the credit card billing on your account, the questionnaire was changed to a more detailed version asking you why you quit?
Who cares? One thing that I DO know for sure is that there are 11 million threads which are exactly the same as yours, word for word, same arguments...... Exactly the same.
Thread 11 000 001 please!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Many people are afraid to let go of their old game ,so they hang onto accounts even though they might not play anymore.Also Wow is by miles the largest RMT game going,so you can bet there is a million or more accounts related to RMT.This is one reason you wont see many players,RMT stick to themselves.I have been making new players for the past 4 years or so.to see if anytrhing has changed in Wow and there has NEVER been any kind of activity in noob zones,so really makes you wonder about the numbers.
I did see a fair number of people during Cata ,however that is a given and to be expected,bit not nearly as many people as i would expect to see.
Perhaps the biggest reason,you don't see many players in lower zones is the poor design they copied form EQ.That design is one where your player hits max level and he is basically done.In FFXI you could hit max level and go back to level 1 and learn a new class,weapon skills,magic skills on that SAME player.So for Wow players to play a different class they have to ditch their hard work,their favourite player and play a brand new player.this is poor game design imo and a good reason you won't see as many players in noob zones.The majority of player i find hit max level then hangout on that player 90% of the time raiding or even just chatting.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Many people are afraid to let go of their old game ,so they hang onto accounts even though they might not play anymore.Also Wow is by miles the largest RMT game going,so you can bet there is a million or more accounts related to RMT.This is one reason you wont see many players,RMT stick to themselves.I have been making new players for the past 4 years or so.to see if anytrhing has changed in Wow and there has NEVER been any kind of activity in noob zones,so really makes you wonder about the numbers.
I did see a fair number of people during Cata ,however that is a given and to be expected,bit not nearly as many people as i would expect to see.
Perhaps the biggest reason,you don't see many players in lower zones is the poor design they copied form EQ.That design is one where your player hits max level and he is basically done.In FFXI you could hit max level and go back to level 1 and learn a new class,weapon skills,magic skills on that SAME player.So for Wow players to play a different class they have to ditch their hard work,their favourite player and play a brand new player.this is poor game design imo and a good reason you won't see as many players in noob zones.The majority of player i find hit max level then hangout on that player 90% of the time raiding or even just chatting.
not seeing other players?? you have to try extremely hard for that to happen.. ie.. avoid population centers and quest areas, though i suppose you could find a spot eventually... if i had to describe WoW population wise, i'd have to use the word crowded a lot... so 11 million players.. most definitely.. hard to see how it could be less.
Majority of WoW subs comes from Asian countries. They have slightly different subscrition model as well, more oriented on pay/hour rather than monthly costs. Im guessing, like every other company Blizzard also bumps up the numbers al ittle counting some of the players that pay for maybe 8-10 hours / month.
These days i'd guess about 6-7 million out of 11 comes from the Asian market as the western numbers were dropping already for quite some time, hovering somewhere between 4-5 millions. Blizzard just has the luck of being popular in Asia and having quite established contacts there. Pulling out few millions subs from, say country like China, is not really that hard considering the population there.
Aging game, experiencing a normal subscription curve at this point. Long, slow, predictable decline.
The thing is, all those Global markets WoW opened up--and is still opening--they're not as burned out as NA subscribers are, because they started later.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Blizzard doesn't lie about their sub numbers; they use marketing spin to inflate the perception of the volume of their sub numbers.
The majority of subscribers are in the Chinese market. They do not have to buy the base box game or any of the expansions, they pay by the hour, and they also on average pay far less than $15 a month. In other words, an "active sub" in the Chinese market means that they paid for at least one hour of gameplay on an account.
Also consider that there's also no trial to the game in that market, so anyone who wants to try the game just pays for an hour to try the game... which counts as an active sub. And account theft is far more rampant in China, and victims of such tend to just open up new accounts when this happens... again, counts as an extra sub for the 30 days the old one was last paid for.
The one million players that were lost were mostly in the North American and EU markets... which is pretty significant considering that those are the highest paying subscribers. Keep in mind as well that there is a lag between when players stop playing and when they decide to pull the plug on their subscription. Some people keep paying for a month or two even though they rarely log in, so keep in mind that a few months from now the "active" subs number could drop even lower.
I don't know about the current sub level, but I do think that it's time for Blizzard to start amalgamating some servers. An awful lot of people play this game, but they are spread too thinly across a big world on too many servers. I have a level 77 character currently in Icecrown and it's deserted. I took a trip round the old part of the game recently, completely empty. This shouldn't be the case in a game with so many subscribers. Get rid of a few servers, I say...
That won't alleviate the basic problem (the majority of the populace being piled up against the wall at the cap).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That won't alleviate the basic problem (the majority of the populace being piled up against the wall at the cap).
Yes, that's true, but it would make the world generally feel a little fuller. Your comment does make me think though, when I played vanilla WoW in 2005 or whatever, it was really a big thing when you saw a lvl 60. Reaching lvl cap was a huge achievement - now most of the players you see are lvl capped.
Comments
Simply put, would you place faith in a corporate report, with independent auditors, government audits, bankers, financial analysts all looking into it, with piles of banking, trading and other detail information alongside.
Or you would trust the armchair analysts who camp a site and expound visions?
I know who I tend to trust a bit more.
My family dropped 5 accounts, WoW just not my cup of tea anymore.
What I want to know is how many of these "accounts" are single people with more than one account such as I was.
If you don't like a game don't play it, and quit running to MMORPG.com to trash it.
I once have 4, now none
I had three two euro and one US now I have none.
For sampling, you don't need to have the choice and opinion of the whole population, that's how market research and polling before political elections work.
So far, the trend seems to be that the numbers of WoW are in decline, seen in activity monitoring tools and confirmed by Blizzard themselves. That isn't a steep decline, but a gradual none, yet decline in numbers nonetheless. However, I doubt that it'll remain a gradual decline when the new AAA MMO's start arriving.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Had 3 for the family, now 0. Even went as far as to delete every character on my account which was a 70+ of every class. Quit a month after Cataclysm, went back for a week .... and said " why oh why do I keep doing this to myself?" Game isn't bad ... just super bored and it doesnt hold my interest anymore and they have failed to add enough over the years other than the same old stuff. But after 6 years, It would most likely be like that with any game.
Including myself I came up with 11 ppl (friends, family, colleagues) which played WoW with enthusiasm but lost interest. Now that I think off, I don't personally know anyone anymore activly playing it. Hell, even my 50+y old mother played it (not casual, full raiding & everything) and blizz managed to get her bored.
I personally do not hate either WoW or Blizz. I stopped soon enough to not get into the "hate it" situation. It was a fun ride for a few years with some nice memorys. Now after a good 2y hiatus I might even take a look back into it when this transgriefmorphthingstuff... err... this appearance tab wannabe gets released. IMO first meaningfull addition to that game since.. uhh... cannot remember. Till now it was all the same, fire & forget additions without meaningful persistance to the avatar. I mean come on, regardsless how cool a dungeon was, after the third or tops the fourth time it was just *yawn* + the usual realearn how your class works every three months because it will never be the same again.
*sigh* Now I'm confused. Maybe I just keep the good memory... but then again... Oh damn you Blizzard
This exactly is why I feel sad, very very sad. I have been playing the same few games for a years, rotating out SWG, DAoC, and then CoX ... until I have to abandon WoW. These games are just too old, and after trying out everything over a span of 10+ years, it just feel too familiar. After UO/EQ, the only few games that I really enjoy are already listed above. That is all.
Why do we do that to ourselves? Why do I hang on to the same old list of games? Because the new games just does not cut it, for me. I have to go to GoG to find old RPGs, I have to replay Oblivion, ME, DA:O and DA2, just to kill time, because the MMOs are just aweful.
WoW is good but after 7 years? Why can't someone build something that can complement it, not replace. In the IT field, in any field, a product is cycled out within 5 years, as obsolete. Yet WoW is growing and growing for 7 years, till the recent months. How bad the rest of the competition is, shame on them all.
None of that is the same as falsifying sales records.
It wasn't mortgage fraud. It was arm asset tranferrance - "bad loans". You paid real money for a real house that existed, whether or not you're stupid enough to pay for an arm loan doesn't make it fraud. Then your loan was sold for a higher rate to someone else. You're referrening to pure financial system manipulation. Anyone who bought a house in that system is a guilty as the banks.
The banks were granted exceptions for the good of the entire US financial system, it's not some game.
Saying on TV your company is fine is not the same as generating a false investors statement, and taking peoples money.
It's very easy to tell when a company lies to investors. The investors don't get paid, and people start getting arrested.
You are obviously a conspiracy theorist, this stuff is highly illegal, and thousands of people have been jailed for financial fraud.
And finally, I will trust articles, financial reports, and experts over some guy who thinks the game is bleeding because some of his freinds quit.
Blizzard don't have to lie about their sub numbers or falsify their records. In order to cover up any loss in subscribers in the Western markets, all they had to do is stop releasing data showing subscriber numbers breakdown by regions and boost their Asian subscribers to cover any shortfalls in the West.
Blizzard used to release subscriber numbers per region/market but they stopped doing that more than 2 years ago. When WOW was banned in China, Blizzard kept quiet about sub numbers until it was unbanned and Cataclysm was released. It is clear to see that WOW is in decline in Western markets; no new servers were introduced since WOTLK and there are many realms with low to medium population.
A Chinese subscriber is not the same as a Western subscriber. In China, you don't buy the actual game and all expansions are free. Unlike in the West where we pay a monthly subscription, in China they pay per hour via time cards. Therefore, someone in China can pay $1 for x hours of play and just log in once in the past month and he/she will be counted towards the 11 million subscribers.
It is pretty obvious that a Chinese sub is not as valuable as a Western sub but where did the extra profits came from? Paid services of course! Blizzard knew that their income from subscription fees are decreasing due to loss in lucrative Western subs so they went all out on the cash shop. Paid faction transfers, server transfers, name changes, shiny pony mounts, cute pets, real-id cross-server grouping fee. Need I say more? Blizzard simply fleece more cash from existing customers.
We know that subs in markets like China are growing. The fact that they still announce an overall sub decline of 1 million despite the increase in Asian subs clearly means that they must have suffered horrendous losses in the Western market that are much greater than 1 million. I am going to speculate here that the Western sub losses are probably greater than 2 million but the increased Asian subs help cover up this loss and soften the bad news.
Just look at Blizzard's behaviour and announcements the last few months. Have you noticed that when you cancel the credit card billing on your account, the questionnaire was changed to a more detailed version asking you why you quit?
Me and 2 of my friends stopped playing WoW recently. I now know 0 people who still play WoW.
Conclusion: Blizzard should have lost 100% of WoW subscribers since my pool of known WoW players has also decreased by 100%.
well, i d k the exact stats, but i guess wow is still the most popular game in the world, and the so called competitor ' RIFT' is nothing, lol
Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.bored with warcraft?buy wow gold paypal
Who cares? One thing that I DO know for sure is that there are 11 million threads which are exactly the same as yours, word for word, same arguments...... Exactly the same.
Thread 11 000 001 please!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Many people are afraid to let go of their old game ,so they hang onto accounts even though they might not play anymore.Also Wow is by miles the largest RMT game going,so you can bet there is a million or more accounts related to RMT.This is one reason you wont see many players,RMT stick to themselves.I have been making new players for the past 4 years or so.to see if anytrhing has changed in Wow and there has NEVER been any kind of activity in noob zones,so really makes you wonder about the numbers.
I did see a fair number of people during Cata ,however that is a given and to be expected,bit not nearly as many people as i would expect to see.
Perhaps the biggest reason,you don't see many players in lower zones is the poor design they copied form EQ.That design is one where your player hits max level and he is basically done.In FFXI you could hit max level and go back to level 1 and learn a new class,weapon skills,magic skills on that SAME player.So for Wow players to play a different class they have to ditch their hard work,their favourite player and play a brand new player.this is poor game design imo and a good reason you won't see as many players in noob zones.The majority of player i find hit max level then hangout on that player 90% of the time raiding or even just chatting.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
not seeing other players?? you have to try extremely hard for that to happen.. ie.. avoid population centers and quest areas, though i suppose you could find a spot eventually... if i had to describe WoW population wise, i'd have to use the word crowded a lot... so 11 million players.. most definitely.. hard to see how it could be less.
Majority of WoW subs comes from Asian countries. They have slightly different subscrition model as well, more oriented on pay/hour rather than monthly costs. Im guessing, like every other company Blizzard also bumps up the numbers al ittle counting some of the players that pay for maybe 8-10 hours / month.
These days i'd guess about 6-7 million out of 11 comes from the Asian market as the western numbers were dropping already for quite some time, hovering somewhere between 4-5 millions. Blizzard just has the luck of being popular in Asia and having quite established contacts there. Pulling out few millions subs from, say country like China, is not really that hard considering the population there.
Aging game, experiencing a normal subscription curve at this point. Long, slow, predictable decline.
The thing is, all those Global markets WoW opened up--and is still opening--they're not as burned out as NA subscribers are, because they started later.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
there is only one thing that appropriate for this post:
"YOU JELLY!?"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Blizzard doesn't lie about their sub numbers; they use marketing spin to inflate the perception of the volume of their sub numbers.
The majority of subscribers are in the Chinese market. They do not have to buy the base box game or any of the expansions, they pay by the hour, and they also on average pay far less than $15 a month. In other words, an "active sub" in the Chinese market means that they paid for at least one hour of gameplay on an account.
Also consider that there's also no trial to the game in that market, so anyone who wants to try the game just pays for an hour to try the game... which counts as an active sub. And account theft is far more rampant in China, and victims of such tend to just open up new accounts when this happens... again, counts as an extra sub for the 30 days the old one was last paid for.
The one million players that were lost were mostly in the North American and EU markets... which is pretty significant considering that those are the highest paying subscribers. Keep in mind as well that there is a lag between when players stop playing and when they decide to pull the plug on their subscription. Some people keep paying for a month or two even though they rarely log in, so keep in mind that a few months from now the "active" subs number could drop even lower.
I don't know about the current sub level, but I do think that it's time for Blizzard to start amalgamating some servers. An awful lot of people play this game, but they are spread too thinly across a big world on too many servers. I have a level 77 character currently in Icecrown and it's deserted. I took a trip round the old part of the game recently, completely empty. This shouldn't be the case in a game with so many subscribers. Get rid of a few servers, I say...
That won't alleviate the basic problem (the majority of the populace being piled up against the wall at the cap).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yes, that's true, but it would make the world generally feel a little fuller. Your comment does make me think though, when I played vanilla WoW in 2005 or whatever, it was really a big thing when you saw a lvl 60. Reaching lvl cap was a huge achievement - now most of the players you see are lvl capped.
I am curiously awaiting to read accurate WoW sub figures for the last quarter.
You guys should do some research.
The 11 million posted on their website is the total number of subscriptions since 2004, not the current amount of players playing the game.
That is a patently false statement.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.