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To EVE or not to EVE, an MMO player looking for a new home
Grummelig
Member Posts: 13
in EVE Online
Greetings
A short background info (feel free to skip).
Over the past years I played quite a couple of MMOs, but only very few in a "serious" manner. After some time in a fantasy setting I have found my way back into the space genre. Having played Star Wars galaxies since its original release (minus a few small breaks plus a huge one after the NGE) I got drawn into that once more. Unfortunately, as many will know, that game is shutting down in the near future. As I am (always have been) a fan of space oriented games, on top of the fact that I have very little interest in returning to a fantasy setting (or a ground-based setting in general for that matter), I am now left with searching for a new MMO "home".
In short, I am looking for a game that I can play as my main gaming related occupation.
EVE online came to my attention back when it was still in development where I actually got a chance to try it out during its alpha testing phase. I ended up only spending very little time on it though. So my knowledge about the game is limited to a few general elements. In other words I know more or less what it is about, but that's about it already.
Speaking to a friend recently the topic of EVE came up and long story short here I am trying to figure out if the game could be a viable and enjoyable option for me. As mentioned I am looking for a game to play over a somewhat longer term, thus I would like to address some concerns and open questions to determine if EVE is something I might really enjoy, before actually deciding to jump into the game. So I figured I'd best ask these in a reasonably neutral environment where there are current proponents as well as critics of the game.
So what I would appreciate some input on are the following issues:
- I absolutely loath PvP. Actually that is not entirely correct, what I loath is the PvP kiddy/-jerk attitude of "haha I kill u because I R so good, I pwn, you s**k, I pwn yoo because I R the big bad 13 years old onlinewarrior who plays just to harm others thus I R bettar than u!".
The question is, is it possible to avoid this kind of experience in EVE to a reasonable degree while still enjoying the main parts of the game? Is it at least possible to avoid the loss of large ingame efforts/assets to people like that? Or is it a given that I will end up starting over more or less from scratch sooner or later?
Note: I do know EVE is built pvp centric. I guess my question is, would it be possible for me as a new player to reach a point where I can for example survive long enough to escape such attacks in one piece and/or live long enough to decide if I want to try and fight or get to safety (as opposed to simply being a free (one-shot) kill for everyone).
- (Im)possibility to catch up to long time players.
note: I recently read an other forum topic dealing with this aspect so I got a rough idea that it is still possible to obtain a decent "usefulness level", and while I would still appreciate additional input on this question, I think I got it covered now.
Having heard that character advancement is purely time (and credits) based, is it even possible for a new player to reach a meaningful status at which they can "keep up", character/ship-strength wise, with long time players? Would it be doable to reach a point where I can contribute to a (larger) corporation's activities in a meaningful way, for example could I obtain a strength level where I can fly escort for miners against long time player attackers? Or will I always remain the newbie that nobody would benefit from having in their corporation?
- Playstyles, hardcore vs. casual.
Somewhat related to the previous question. How would I fare if I played EVE in a casual manner, as in the one or the other hour after work but not much more? Could I still "get somewhere" in the sense of the above question? Can it be enjoyable in a casual manner at all?
And vice versa, are there significant merits to playing it somewhat more "hardcore", investing more time, would I then be able to catch up (faster)? And again, is it more fun when played more intensely? Granted, that might be a subjective thing but still.
- The anti-EVE cliché: "EXCEL in space"
EVE is a complex game that much I know. Having enjoyed the finer details of space equipment and crafting in Star Wars Galaxies (granted, it is probably not all too comparable, but still) and considering how incredibly one-dimensional most other games are in that regard I would be looking forward to this aspect.
However, while I do like pulling out and using one of those not so ordinary calculators to figure out what kind of equipment combination etc. might be working best etc., I am not a fan of the thought of having to create complex excel spreadsheets just to be able to play/compete in a game.
So, how bad is it really? How far does one have to go on the excel/spreadsheet part to "get somewhere" in game?
- Continuity/development/future of the game.
Seeing that EVE has been out for over 5 (?) years and the company that made it is developing a new title at the moment, how does the game's future look like? How do people rate its chances of continuing to remain operative for several more years to come? Is it likely to keep receiving developer attention and updates? Or might it suffer the same fait as Star Wars Galaxies in the near to mid term future? I am a burnt man in this regard now.
- EVE vs. a single player space game
Considering the possible pitfalls that EVE presents and the fact that based on what I heard a mistake might cost a player their entire ingame efforts/assets to a trigger happy "CS kiddy", what are the arguments in favour of playing EVE, as opposed to a single player based space simulation such as X3 Reunion/Terran conflict for example?
I have actually got one of those single player titles sitting around, still unplayed. So what are the arguments for playing eve as opposed to finally trying out the single player title where I can just as well earn large ships and space stations etc.?
- Lastly two more specific/detail question, first: shield tanking
I heard that depending on used ships, skills, and faction/race there are certain setups meant for shield based tanking and others for armor tanking. Not being a fan of armor damage, but however loving carrier style gameplay no matter the context/game, I would like to go for a shield tanking carrier, if I do end up playing EVE.
Just so I can take a more specific look at the ships that would come into consideration, what race/faction would I have to pick for that kind of setup to work?
- Specific question two: support role/supporting others while flying a carrier.
When I choose to fly a carrier, can I truly assume the role of a semi-offensive support ship, sort of behind the main battle line? Can I send out fighters/bombers/drones to attack some of the enemies, while for example sending repair drones (do they exist?) or apply certain abilities to fix friendly players' shields or ships in general who are taking the heavy hits?
A long wall of text so thank you to all who made it to the end and even more so to those who leave an input on any of the questions raised.
ps: there will undoubtedly be a lot of flaming on my points of view and the questions in general. By all means knock yourselves out, even flamers present some type of input/information (don't hope for a reaction of mine though).
Comments
PvP or not?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/322923/PvP-only.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/322827/Can-one-play-eve-without-participating-in-PVP.html
Complexity, catching up?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/322687/wanting-to-start-game-but-worry.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/321691/Learning-to-let-go.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/127648/To-the-new-EvE-Online-players-Links-to-good-sites-free-trials.html
Hardcore or casual
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/320777/Is-Eve-Online-playable-for-beginners.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/320347/How-Do-I-get-the-Most-out-of-EVE.html
EVE vs single player X-3
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/320293/Love-X3-Terran-Conflictis-EVE-a-good-online-fit.html
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Ive started playing Eve and I am a PVE player at heart, and after the initial push to learn enough to start to immerse in the game, I am finding it very enjoyable,especially the feeling of being in a real live and complex universe. The game is primarily a PVP game, but if you stay in 0.5+ sectors then you will not be ganked unless you carry a huge amount of cargo. Initially I had doubts about playing it pve, but after reading posts in this forum again I researched how to play EVE and roleplay and am currently enjoying the role as a trainee explorer/archeologist (quests and instances if you like) I will probably PVP at some ponit but I can control how and when by avoiding sectors, and I do like the excitement if knowing huge parts of the universe is just beyond that 0.5 boundry and is a dangerous place waiting to be explored
The reason I posted is also to describe a scenario I had last night, which indicates to me why the eve community is a healthy one. I was flying to a base with autopilot on, and went for a coffee for 10 minutes while i travelled to the base. Now it appears I accidently flew through a low sec space and get destroyed by some pvpers. I know this because the pvpers realised I was a newbie, messaged me, apologised and offered to defend my ship until i could get back to the wreckage to pick up my quest items. They also gave me some money as a good will gesture. Thats a very respectful and mature attitutude and I thank them for it
I aknowledged it was my own fault for flying into the wrong zone unprepared and moved on with a good little learn as they say.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
One of the biggest traps that EVE lays before the new player is skilling towards "end-game" ships that take 1-2 years to perfect. Set yourself an immediate, attainable goal that you can achieve in a month or so (eg: T2 frigates). Then other intermediate goal, and so on, with the capital ship being a long term aim.
It will take you a minimum of a year of optimally focused skilling to fly a carrier with good skills. And if you go that route, you wont fly it well, because you wont have had the opportunity to learn how capital ships are used, what they're vulnerable to, and how to fit & fly them properly. They are also heavily restricted in ways that subcapitals aren't. The biggest restriction is that capital ships aren't allowed in hi-sec.
Incidentally, carriers are used for moving ships a hundred times for every once they participate in PvP, and ten times just for repping up structures.
If you like the carrier concept, then you can follow a path like
Gallante Cruiser -> Vexor, a cruiser class drone carrier
Assualt ships -> Ishkur, a Tech 2 frigate class drone carrier
Battlecruisers -> Myrmidon, a battlecruiser class drone carrier
Heavy Assult Ships -> Ishtar, a Tech 2 cruiser class drone carrier
Gallante Battleship -> Dominx, a battleship class drone carrier
[Capital Navigations skills, Capital Engineering skills, Capital Mechanics skills, Captial Ship skill, Advanced Drone Interfacing skill, Fighters skill, Advanced Spaceship Command 5 OH MY GOD THIS SHIT TAKES MONTHS AND THE SKILLBOOKS COST MORE THAN ALL THE SHIPS I OWN
]
Gallante Carrier -> Thantos, a carrier class fighter carrier; Nyx, a supercarrier class fighterbomber carrier.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
PVP
There are 2 types of death in eve online - the first is when you lose your ship and the second is when you lose your "pod". When you lose your ship you're out the cost of your ship and all of it's parts minus the insurance. When you lose your pod you lose all of your implants and "wake up" where ever you have your clone set.
In the event of a ship kill you are going to try to get away as fast as you can so that you don't lose your pod too; at the time you wont care what anybody is saying in local. If you should lose your pod you wont be in local unless your clone set to a local station, so again, the smack talk wont matter.
The other thing to consider is that unless you are in a absolutely horrible ship fitting there's really nothing a person can say to smack talk you with. Typically, a player's fitting is what kills them and not really the other player.
(Im)possibility to catch up to long time players.
It's true that it's not possible to catch up to long time players, but long time players are just as limited as the next person when it comes to ships and fittings. They can only fly one ship at a time and the ship they choose is limited by it's fittings, so yes they might have all sorts of skill points in various things but most of them are not very useful with a specific ship. You can catch up to a vet player when it comes to battleships. You can catch up to a vet player when it comes to t2 and t3 cruisers. There are only a certain number of skill points you can spend on these things. The real difference is that the vet player has more options when he is in the station's hanger. He has more ship options.
Playstyles, hardcore vs. casual.
Eve online is like a hobby and you will get from it what you put into it. If you only have an hour to play then you'll need to find something to do in that hour. Determine what you want to do in eve, make that your goal, and then set your own pace to achieve that goal. You need to be self centered when you play eve and you need to be self content when you reach your own goals.
The anti-EVE cliché: "EXCEL in space"
I'm an industrailist in game, so yeah, the calculator and notebook get a lot of use, but I don't use EXCEL.
Continuity/development/future of the game
CCP is commited to two expansions a year and make minor improvents thru out the year.
EVE vs. a single player space game
It's the same as any other MMORPG vs. single player RPG.
As for the direct questions:
Do you plan on being involved in null security fleet battles?
First of all, thanks everyone for all the input and links (although I had already looked through some of them) that were posted. It helped paint a first rough image of what to expect and got me a starting point to begin a more thorough research from.
That however raised a few more (detail-)questions but that was to be expected.
First to answer the above quoted question:
Not having had any noteworthy first hand experience at all this is difficult to answer. Thinking about what kind of space battles I like I'd say yes, null sec. fleet battles is something I could potentially see myself in. Of course that depends on many factors, to a large extent including how well/useful I could actually do/be in there, or rather, if I can manage to live through at least some of those battles (be that through victory or timely retreating).
There are a few ship related questions that I would like to raise.
Having looked at the different ship classes, bonuses and designs I ran into some difficulties.
It is worth noting that it is extremely important to me that I like how my ship(s) look. Add the fact that I do not like asymmetrical designs but am looking for a shield tanking fit makes choosing ships from just a single race near to impossible.
Ship progression route
Going with a compromise of looks and intended gameplay style of the ships (as far as I can judge that at this point), thinking of the "enjoy/focus on what you can currently use" as opposed to focusing on an ominous end game ship, I came up with a possible "route" for ship progression.
Frigate: Amarr: Punisher
Destroyer: Caldari: Cormorant (more as a learning/"something different" or inbetween stepping stone to cruisers)
Cruiser: Amarr: Arbitrator ("main ship" next to the Ferox) (would like to get into this one as soon as possible)
Battlecruiser: Caldari: Ferox ("main ship" next to the Arbitrator)
Beyond that: Caldari Carrier(s) or other Caldari ships should I not actually like the eve carrier gameplay
This might sound like a terrible mix to seasoned players, but based on what I read and experimented on in EVEMon, I would only lose about 2 days worth of training time due to the cruiser and frigate race skill crossover, as the higher up ships will all be Caldari. Secondary/support skills will of course differ between the Arbitrator and Ferox but should be doable in the medium term? Please point out if there is an error somewhere in that line of thought.
Shield tanks
Given that this is a path that can work out: on the topic of the Arbitrator and Ferox: can either or both of these ship be viable shield tanks (active, passive?)?
Also in terms of character race choice, is it correct that the only effect it actually has is the few starter skills (worth just a few hours of training time) and the newbie frigate ship given upon death? Which reminds me, what IS the starter ship for either Amarr or Caldari?
'Main' ships
Also, if I decide to go for the mentioned route of (drone)cruiser and/or battlecruiser, can I use those as "main" ships (as in, spending the majority of my time in them) and somewhat reliably earn a decent amount of ISK, through (PvE) combat? Plus, can those ships be a true/viable "asset" to a corporation, as in me actually contributing, PvE and/or PvP/nullsec battle wise?
Surviving/retreating in PvP
Lastly, on topic of the null sec. battles, or pvp battles in general for that matter, I read about things like tackling/webbing and draining, but is it possible for an average (ie. not super hightech equipped) cruiser or battlecruiser to be in the thick of it and live long enough to retreat in once piece to recharge/fight an other day, or is it 'win or die', especially in the null sec. battles?
Granted, it is most likely different each battle, but generally speaking can I have enough survivability in those ships to get out of a (large) battle, and do the game mechanics allow it, or is PvP a "if you are in combat, you are not getting away, defeat or be defeated"?
The main reason I am asking this is that one of the most fun things that I can imagine is being part of a large battle and surviving it, totally independent of the overall outcome of the encounter.
A lot of questions, again, but if all these things can work out, I might very well be hooked up to give EvE a shot. If they don't, well, maybe there is an alternative but most likely with too many issues and displeasing factors (such as ship aesthetics) that I would not be able to look around in the long term.
Anyway, thanks again in advance for any additional input.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
I'll be starting EvE in the Fall, so thanks to the op and respondents, useful info to read up on. : )
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Carriers are only useful in null sec fleet battles, so if you're interested in a carrier, you have to also be interested in null sec fleet battles. The first step in your goal would be to try to join a null sec corp, but remember that scamming is a part of eve so when you ask to join and they want you to send them money or contract out your stuff to them to be shipped to null sec without collateral it's a scam.
You can skip the destroyer it's not a stepping stone to cruisers and is only used by griefers or as a stepping stone to interdictors.
Worry less about what your ships look like and worry more about their bonuses and their intended roles.
When you "show info" on a ship that you like take a look under the "recommended" tab for hints on what that ship's intended role is. That will help you decide whether it's armor tank or shield tank. You can go outside the box but if the ship has more armor than shields you're going to want to work with armor.
For PVE mission running I used a Myrmidon it took me to level 3 with some level 4 missions, but it was slow going at level 4 so I switched to a Megathron battleship which was a mistake, I should of used a Dominix instead, but instead of all that, I went Caldari and picked a Raven which, for me, is the best level 4 mission runner in the game. Although, I've seen player's flying the dominix salvage as they killed which is more cost effective.
Not trusting anyone in anything related to "goons" would keep him out of 90% of the nullsec corp recruitment scams
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
A lot of good and valuable information there, again much appreciate. And special thanks to Generals3 for taking the time to write up the detailed answers.
The question of what I want to do in EvE is a single equation with 3 unknowns that I am in the process of narrowing down, for starters at least by defining what I do not want to do.
Not having played myself yet I do not have an all too clear picture of what there actually is to do, the different viable alternatives to make a living in the game, how the gameplay of the different options feels.
And lastly how that is linked to "recommended"/needed regular playtime investment to make it work (as in casual vs. hardcore). Plus of course how the available shipstyles and -types go along with the different ways of playing the game. (I really have to like the ship I am using)
So, what I am not is: a market gambler, a trader, I could never get into playing the markets/auctionhouses and whatnot in any game. I am not much into crafting and production either, although I could see myself trying to earn money by harvesting/mining resources but more on a side track rather than as a mainstay occupation.
I am also not into ganking/solo pvp so null-/low-sec pirating, solo or group based, is not likely to appeal to me. Granted though, if the actual gameplay of it turned out to be a stellar experience I might change my mind about it, but even then I have my doubts.
What I am into is large scale battles (be that PvP or PvE), small(er) group based, cooperative (PvE) activities (maybe flying escort/protecting group mining operations?) and solo PvE.
I do like the idea of a support role so i can definitely see myself in a carrier when it comes to null/low sec group activities. But having looked at battleships a little more I am confident I could be happy in one of those as well, although with a more tanking heavy orientation (I like being in a big ship that can take some hits).
Does that even work in PvE, a (Caldari) Battleship (I like the Rokh) set up for tanking?
So I guess this points me heavily towards null sec oriented corporations. That would inevitably lead to a comparably high ship loss count which is something I am not keen on at all, regardless of me being able to afford replacements or not. I suppose I am a bit more focused or even bent on surviving than the average player (Getting a ship destroyed is just a huge "immersion breaker"). Thus I can't be all that sure if this would be the right path.
With all that said I have grown reasonably happy with a prelimantry ship progression plan, to a large extent similar to what I posted earlier:
As a race I would choose Amarr. As frigate the Punisher, followed as soon as possible by the Arbitrator cruiser with maybe switching to the Pilgrim depending on how that progression works out. After that it is Caldari all the way, starting with the Rokh battleship.
My hope would be to get out of the Punisher quickly enough to not feel too much of the problem of being purely shield tanking oriented. And subsequently I hope that staying in the Arbitrator, or its advanced/upgraded version if that makes sense, for that long until it makes sense to switch to a (different race's) battleship is viable at all.
An additional concern is the Rokh's usefulness, seeing that hybrid weaponry was mentioned to be underpowered/useless and the Rokh seems to be meant for hybrid weaponry/railguns, and I would very much like to use those, at least on the Rokh. If they can be used in a viable manner on the Arbitrator and/or the Punisher it would be even better but from what I can tell Amarr ships are more laser-centric.
Hybrids are very much the gimp weapon system at the moment, I'm afraid. That said, the great cycle of nerf to buff to nerf to buff never truly ceases, and I'm sure that Hybrids will be good again one day. In fact they're long overdue for a buff. The Rokh is a nice ship, but it's not strong in the areas that make for a good PvP ship. The go-to Caldari ships for PvE are the missile boats, and they're extremely effective at it.
Incidentally, I noticed you saying that losing ships is an "immersion breaker" for you. You need to accept that you will lose ships. As you grow in experience and technique (and skills), you will lose them less often, but you will be in situations - especially if you like the idea of big fleet PvP - where it will definitely happen.
You need to perceive your ships as disposable tools calibrated to do specific jobs. A $300 circular saw won't put a screw into a panel as well as a 79c screwdriver. Dont try and use a circular saw to do a screwdriver job and then get mad because the cheaper tool is more effective than the expensive one. In EVE terms, this also means dont assume that bigger equates to better.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
It is time for a short experience recap. I did in fact end up playing EvE, roughly for about a month. In the grand scheme of the game that is of course literally nothing, there are still a few things that others who consider playing the game might want to know.
First of all, there really is a lot to learn, the learning curve however is not quite as bad as it is made out to be. There are a lot of external resources and some helpful players ingame which, in combination with a bit of learning-eagerness, should suffice to find one's way around in the world.
Time wise and on the topic of catching up to others: as others have mentioned, you will never be able to fully catch up with older players. But based on what I have learned and seen so far, it is definitely possible to master a certain ship class in a way equivalent to that of long time players. It still takes a lot of time, but it is at least doable before the end of the decade.
The universe is truly vast, at the same time it still feels populated, rather than like a big empty space.
The options that a player has to customize and fine tune their ship are as vast as the eve universe itself. Stat-wise there is a huge amount of customization that one can theoretically make use of.
...theoretically only though. Maybe it was just my luck in terms of the corp and the associated people that i ended up with, but on the bottom line you will get told that only a very small handful of ship-/equipment- combinations is actually acceptable or worthwile. You (well, non eve-players at least) , won't believe how often chats went along the lines of ..."so, when I want to go for shield tanking..." ...corpmembers: "dude, stick with Amarr, ships, armor tanking all the way" ...."yeah well i thought maybe with the..." ..."trust me/us, just stick with amarr, and go armor, seriously" and so on.
The same thing happens when it comes to ship type- and other equipment discussions. Nothing more than a small handful of setups seems to find acceptance. A few people might say "just do what you like", but on the bottom line it would seem to be a "do what is considered right, or just stick to very very low end solo content and don't bother trying to get in groups or anything".
In combination with EvE's rather... unorthodox shipdesign, somebody who values how the ship they fly looks, is extremely likely to end up screwed one way or the other. Either due to using an inferior ship, setup etc., or due to flying a ship they consider ugly (and trust me there are a lot of not all too neat looking ships out there. Why didn't anyone tell the CCP devs that symetry in ship-design is not a bad thing?).
PvP vs. PvE only: in short: you WILL get ganked. There is one way, and one way only, to prevent that: never ever leave the space station. If you do though, you will be slaughtered by other players, maybe sooner, maybe later, but in all likelyhood sooner. Either way it will definitely happen.
Some may talk about high security sectors being rather save, if you don't carry a fortune with you. Forget about it. It doesn't matter if you are ina 0.5 sec. or a 1.0 "super" high securty sector. It does not matter if you are carrying valuable items or just junk, or nothing. It doesn't matter what ship you are flying. No matter what: you WILL get (suicide-)ganked.
On a strangely positive note, this means we can most definitely give the EvE players one thing: they are comitted and determined. There will almost always be someone around who does not worry or bother losing his ship just for the sake of destroying that of an other player, even if all they do is lose money, they stay comitted to holding up the "free for all", "there is no save place" spirit of New Eden.
As for me, I did buy the full game after my buddy invite trial was about to run out, but if I will stick with the game beyond that additional month, I don't know at this point. Most of all, as one might tell based on the above comments, the entire concept of essentially expecting to be killed every single moment, always having to equip a ship for maximum protection so that there might at least be a slim chance, with a lot of luck, to live through all the suicide gank attacks long enough for a concorde (police) ship to save one's butt, absolutely no matter what area you are in, well, not my cup of tea.
Anyway, maybe there is the one or the other person out there to whom this little recap proves helpful.
To OP, I have a similar history and joined eve about 6 weeks ago, and am enjoying it as a pve only game, the enjoyment is comming from the complexity of the build planning and working towards multiple long term goals. RE Ganking, its easy to avoid, and it will not intrude in your gaming if you know how to take basic precautions (which puts you in control)
I play the game 50/50 with Age of Conan, which seems to be a decent balance for this type of game.
RE post above, you refer to frequent ganking, is that in low sec space?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I am aware of the "precautions to be taken" (at least of some of them) to try to avoid ganking. The part in question of the recap was to point out that in the end, none of that matters and that there will still be people hunting and ganking you, regardless of what you do, what you fly, what you have equipped and what sector you are in.
In contrast to what people might say, this (non-profitable, mind you) suicide-ganking takes place in all sectors, particularly in 1.0 sec., since that is where the more PvE oriented people try to play, making it an ideal playing field for all those that suicide-gank "out of principle" or for whatever other reason.
So no, I am actually refering to inevitable ganking in high sec. space, not low sec. Personally I only entered a low sec. area one single time for a courier storyline mission which I survived, in contrast to my time in high-sec.
Yes, people will come in and say: "do A, do B, equip C, don't carry D etc. and you will be safe". The point I was trying to make: none of it actually matters in the end.
Some precautions may delay the inevitable, but that's all. Sooner or later (most likely sooner) someone will find you and blow you up, just for the sake of it, no matter if you are in a high/maximum security sectors or not and/or have an entirely empty cargo hold or not.
Any (potential) new player has to keep this in mind. No matter the situation, you will always have to expect an attack, there are no exceptions whatsoever.
Personally I would not recommend this game to a new player at all right now until CCP pulls their heads out of their proverbial nether regions.
Every vet in here should say thank you to Malcanis for posting those links. It has been eloquently and exhaustively discussed there. Please read each one and post any questions you have. If you are a fan of sandbox style MMO's or really MMO's in general and have not at least tried the free trial of EvE your opinion/decision making process is missing key info.
Whether you love or hate EvE, it should be played by any serious "MMORPG" gamer, imo. Unlike most communities, we(EvE vets) expect a certain level of common sense and ability to think for ONESELF. If you die and lose something, ask yourself if you can handle that?
Most of the problem with EvE isn't the sp disparity, low sec space, why hybrid weapons suck, etc...it's new players mindset. I tell all the new guys..."repeat after me...."
"When I undock"......"I will lose this ship"....ready? Try it yourself. Once you are completely comfortable with this train of thought..you'll be fine. Remember, your ships/mods are basically class changes in fantasy games. Such as, weapons=warrior, or repping mods=cleric.
If you have played a pvp game in a class based system before and lost...did you rage quit? Did you actually try and figure out why you died? Are you sure the other guy actually beat you..or lemme guess....he had to be cheating right? If you believe that everytime you lose in PvP..the other guy is hacking...EvE isn't for you.
Good luck..and hope to see you in game.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
Wow, thats a nice story. Kudos to those guys for having spines.
I say go for it. No matter the issues we're seeing right now (the whole controversy with The Mittany w/e) if it's something you'll enjoy, do it.
The game won't radically change any time soon so you'll be able to experience it and see whether or not it's something you want to commit more time to.
I don't see much gloating in chat channels by pirates compared to something like order and chaos.
I love the fact that nowhere is 100% safe, it gives the game an edge.
I'm a 2004 EvE vet. I've consolidated my assets in game and I'm not subscribed at the moment. I was really surprised at the changes CCP made with the "captain's quarters" and NEX exchange (MT). For many of us that have loved this game for years there is a sense that the developers have had a real change in philosophy- going from a proud, hardcore, uncompromising group of people with a real LOVE for their game (and a wicked sense of humor) .... to just another business trying to cash in as effectively and quickly as possible. Sure, CCP has always been a for-profit enterprise... but the universe they created in EvE (with the help of a really smart and really dedicated community) is truly a work of art. I think it grew synergistically in ways that no one really expected.
In my years playing the game I met friends from all over the world that I still keep in touch with, and I had more fun and derived more real satisfaction out of the experience than I like to admit. I also learned things that have had a real positive impact on my real life. I learned more about practical economics in one month working with EvE's market and manufacturing than I did in two semesters of economics as an undergraduate. I picked up skills as an alliance diplomat that I use in my professional life almost daily now. One of the greatest things that EvE did for me was to improve my street smarts- in a universe where almost everyone is trying to scam you or kill you, developing a "6th sense" about when things aren't quite right is survival 101.
This brings me to the point I wanted to make after reading over this thread (yes, I actually have a point
Even with the current state of the game, I'd say that EvE is ABSOLUTELY worth trying out. The universe is vast and complicated, the learning curve is steep, and the world is absolutely unforgiving (especially of carelessness and defecits in common sense). Some people will hate it, but I'd venture a guess that most people will- at the very least- enjoy that moment when you realize how truly VAST and OPEN New Eden is. Looking back on my many years in the game, I'd say that 95% of the things that I really enjoyed over the years would be absolutely possible starting out from scratch today. In fact, now may be the best time in a long time to get started in EvE specifically because many vets (like myself) are taking sabbatical until further notice.
I think most of the negative comments you see about the game come from 2 groups: 1) people that are too impatient, thin-skinned, or intellectually challenged to thrive and survive in the game, and 2) veteran players who have become frustrated with long-standing problems in the game that have been ignored while CCP has focused on "fluff" content and eye candy that does nothing to support and enrich the core elements of the game. (I won't get into the issues of resources allocated to World of Darkness and Dust 514... eventually CCP will have to remember that EvE pays the bills or the company will go under) The game is still amazing, and there is still nothing even CLOSE to it in terms of freedom and complexity in the gaming world. So check it out for yourself- and don't think for a second that the free trial gives you enough time to figure out what's up. Eve is a game of months and years, not days and weeks.
I fully anticipate returning to EvE at some point in the future. I still have some hope/faith that CCP will rediscover the passion and irreverence that made them great in the first place. They need to remember that they are about STICKING IT TO THE MAN and not trying to BE THE MAN. Right CCP? HTFU!
Couple final thoughts: You can get around in nearly complete safety in New Eden (high-sec, low-sec, even 0.0) if you have the right skills and equipment. If you are getting killed a lot just find a veteran to show you the ropes... I would offer to help, but as I mentioned I'm on leave. Also, think for yourself! Fly whatever ships appeal to you... I have a character with 100 million skillpoints that has never flown Caldari or fired a missle just because the description of the Caldari race annoyed me on day one. Don't let anyone tell you that there is "one ship" you need to fly. Have fun!
First question regarding pvp. Eve isnt a twitch game its a tactical game. So most of the time, as long as you know what you are doing and play smart you can avoid most fights should you wish.
However these methods require time and effort. Things like using your directional scanner to know when they are incoming, staying aligned, not autopiloting with 12b assets in your hold, and not jumping into unsafe space that isnt pre-scouted first.
To do this requires a bit of knowledge and learning the "secrets" so to speak in eve. Lots of people are scared to death of lowsec and 0.0 but in all honesty if you know what you are doing they can be fairly safe.
However, understand that in every game there are douchebags. EvE has a bit higher of a barrier to entry so our douchebags are a bit more refined and you dont get "tbagged in space" often. Most folks that are just completely open assholes dont do to well in eve long term.
Now dont get me wrong, there are a ton of people who will kill you, scam you, trick you into getting yourself killed etc... they just arent going to mock you endlessly about it unprovoked, and in most scenarios are actually fairly cool people once you chat with them. There are exceptions though.
Second question regarding catching up to vets. If having the exact same toon as someone thats been playing for 8 years is your requirement then no that wont happen. However, unlike say in wow or eq2 this isnt a issue.
Most themepark games like the ones I mentioned above are linear growth games. You start at point A and take steps to reach the end at point Z. Eve simply doesnt work that way.
Eve is a horizontal growth system. Every skill has 5 levels 1 - 5 and even the hardest skills in the game can be maxed out if you specialize relatively quickly.
So the goal as a new player is to pick the class of ship you want to fly and the race and then specialize to T2. So a new player can be fully T2 fit in a frigate in a little under a month. A vet will have the same skills, but you and him will now be equal in said frigate. Now the vet might be able to fly all 4 races frigates while you can only fly one, but in that class of ships you are equal.
The other thing to realize is bigger does not always mean better. Many new players join eve and start training frigates then learn about cruisers. They then skill towards cruisers with out maximizing frigates. At this point they can now fly both but cant fly either well. Many times they then train for battlecruisers or even battleships and are still fully T1 fit. Ill tell you right now a T1 bc or bs is basically a cruiser with a few more hp and a hell of a lot more cost.
SPECIALIZE you'll thank me later.
Regarding casual play. Eve is one of the few games out that can be played extremely casually and still progress. You will run into money issues obviously if you dont play enough to make enough cash to benefit you. But in all honesty its easier to play eve casually than any other game on the market. With maybe the exception of farmville.
Spreadsheets.
Im not going to lie, eve crafting and such is rather spreadsheet intensive. Its not hardcore spreadsheets where you need a phd to make them, but there are activities that do benefit from a program or sheet thats more than casual.
However, how needed they are depends on you and your desires.
I run an industrial corp, we do massive mining ops every day. Back in the day we recorded everyones can by hand and each amount they mined. At the end of the day Id tally them all up (took 30 - 40 minutes) then we'd seperate and refine, sell then split the profits with the player.
With a 10 man corp that was easy, as we grew it became a nightmare. We had a PhP developer in the corp who after hearing me complain made a web app for me that does all that instantly and saves me time. I simply enter whats mined and it tells me what to pay the player. Saves me hours of paper work a week. Is this needed? No it can be done with out it but in my specialized scenario its a huge help. Most people who play the game do not need spreadsheets or programs but hardcore traders, miners, and industrialists will do better with them.
Future of eve. I'd say it looks good. I've been playing off and on since 2003 and at the moment there is no game that can compete with it in its niche. CCP will continue development of it for many years to come. The only thing that would hurt eve is if someone managed to come out with a bigger better sandbox game and it doesnt look like one of those is coming down the pipe any time soon.
Eve vs sp. Unless you are stupid (and yes I do mean that harshly) you wont be losing your entire assets in one event. Now, things do happen. However, you dont spend all your money on A ship and then take SAID ship into harms way unless you simply aren't playing smart. It happens from time to time mainly to new players and they learn a valuable lesson and have to spend a week or so refarming from scratch.
You can never be broke to the point you have to quit the game in eve. There are simply setbacks.
Main issue is to be careful with your assets and think before you do.
SP games are a blast but you just dont get the interactivity that you will get in a multiplayer game. X3 is a great game but the ships you kill, people you under cut, and the empire you eventually build is just for you. You arent making an impact on other people arent feeling an impact from other people, and in general no one but you will know what you've accomplished. If thats ok for you, then stick with sp games. For me personally I prefer the interaction.
If you want shield tanking then the primary race of choice is Caldari. They are missile and shield specialists. Minmatar ships can be shield or armor.
As for a carrier yes you can do sort of what you like. A carrier more or less has three roles. Primarily its a combat logistics rock. You fly into danger tank with triage and keep your allies alive. It is the premier healer in the game.
Your secondary role is drones. Carrier drones are called fighters and they can be deployed and asigned to people. meaning you can sit at a safer location in system and have your drones asigned to 2 different players. However in real combat that would be a waste of your ships potential. You really arent healing anyone, you arent taking damage, just simply providing drone support.
That being said carrier is a long term ship. You could rush carriers in probably 8 - 12 months as long as you trained for nothing else however your enjoyment of the game would probably be significantly hampered.
If thats really a hard goal for you, then I suggest buying two accounts. On your primary account just play the game and learn. On your secondary account train only for carriers. this would allow you to play the game and not be forced to sit in station waiting for a year.
Big wall of text to answer yours. If you have more questions please feel free to pm me.
Well, you can try the trial and then see if it is your cup of tea.
Keep on rockin'!
This is the simplest advice.
- I absolutely loath PvP.
That says you wont like EVE. PvE in EVE is for grinding ISK, nothing more. 90% of the ships won't be of any use to you. They are one trick pony, logistical PvP ships. You will fly missle barfing shield tanks and grind the same missions over and over. Don't bother thinking Incursion no matter what bait trolls in game try and convince you. They are not for players less than a year old. Just about anything will work on a Lv. 1 and 2, 3 is Drake and 4 is Nightmare or Golem. Grind them untill you get bored out of your skull. Venture in to low sec you will do well untill someone happens upon you. Then its dock up and log out. They will camp you untill you leave or they blow you up. The community you will face in public areas are smug, arrogant and childish.
No, I don't "hate" EVE. I just know full well what its all about and I can tell you now you will leave frustrated and feeling betrayed. Depending on your luck or lack of it might take you a month, 6 months or longer but it will happen. It's just what EVE is.
Respectfully, I don't think your experience with Eve was representative of most. I moved to 0.0 solo when I was a month old and have pretty much stayed there (in and around Syndicate) since 2005. I play solo 80% of the time. I made a ton of cash and had a lot of fun with PVE stuff over the years. If you get killed a lot (even in 0.0) then you are making mistakes or haven't developed effective techniques for doing what you need to do. I never go looking for PVP in EvE... I pretty much look at the rest of the player base as a really good AI that's trying to kill you all the time. That's why the game stays so good for so long.
In any case, it sounds like you missed 90% of what the game is about. Sorry it didn't work out for you, but I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there that will love the game just because it IS so challenging.
My first 3 years was spent in Solitude low sec running solo in my own corp and while the game didn't have the grief and head ache it took on when I got involved in null politics I never made a ton of ISK. I just didnt have a measuring stick or a perspective on what a "ton of ISK" was. For those 3 years if I had 600 mill or so I was happy. Right now I'd say I have handy 30 billion and I know that's a drop in the bucket compared to what the people I compete against have. But the game really fell apart for me when I went on test server. I was able to in 2 months take Sov, make a station, 2 Titans and 3 Super carriers. The things that prevent me from doing that on sis are simply things I have no control over add in 200 billion ISK.
I'm not going to take from your entertainment. If you enjoy the game after that many years, gratz to you and keep going. I think you are off target to say "most" will follow that template. Most will do what I did and much sooner than 3 years in. They will want to become part of the social scene and become involved in the game community and that's when it will decay.