Honestly I feel like you are all suffering from a bad case of "the good ol days" Aka Nostalgia. Yeah I started playing when UO Lauched, yes I play WoW now. Are MMOs vastly different than they were? Yes
Is this bad? Objective, only good or bad to the individual.
Vin. WoW was a lot more like old school MMOs, like EQ and DAOC, Having an entire character dedicated to ONLY casting some buffs and then going afk for the whole fight is not really fun... Having hybrid classes that are only there for one ablility, or having people stay out of combat so they can res the people who die because thats all their good for....
Do we forget so quickly all the bad and only gloss it over with all our joyous memories?
I remeber things when they were great!
I also remember things when they sucked...
PS. Lets all not forget how OP all Stealth classes were in ALL MMO's until more recent attempts to balance the ability.
Edit: Also I find complaining about progression as if its only is effecting WoW or as if WoW is the source of the problem is just silly... Progression and all its problems / benefits, is something that EQ started us on over a Decade ago. Lets raise the level cap and obsolete all this work!
FFXI was quick to follow with new ex packs that released gear that blew away old stuff.
Difference being now, most games aren't worth even sticking around long enough to let expansions obsolete our old gear.
I remember the bad and the good, use to be a lot more good imo.
I like to do multiple things in games, if all I am doing is grinding gear, I get bored. I like to explore/harvest/craft/pve/pvp and some side stuff like diplomacy in VG...That way I have options.
Most newer mmos only seem to be able to pull 1-2 areas together, then ignore or have sucky supporting parts imo. I could list games and what they lacked...But the last game I really liked, despite its flaws was Vanguard. Last game I played was Rift, world was too small, and not many choices, if you didn't want to do what they wanted you to do....Its ok, if their path for you is enough...It wasn't for me.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I realised that Blizzard was just making the same old crap a few weeks into Cataclysm, the new quests were cool/nice but when you reached end-game it was still the same old run heroics > get gear > run raids > get gear > do some PvP > get gear, it got old.
Thats why I am looking forward to Anet's Guild Wars 2, call me a fanboy if you will, but these guys have made it a point to let people know that their game will be based on community.
Anet isnt the only company though, many Indie companies and some of the big ones are slowly coming back to a "making games we want to play" mentality.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
OP, you're looking for a long, bygone era of the MMORPG genre. Sadly, it's essentially been gone for the last 6 years. It started changing (dying, TBH) in '05. And looking at what's out there lately and in the foreseeable future, I don't think it will come back, ever. Hell, you have an upcoming title proudly proclaiming having NPCs fill out your party (LOL, take a guess which one? ) You're asking about group play and a tight-knit community? That's gone.
It's all about "Massive Single Player Role Playing Game" now. It's all about Solo Play and Hamster Wheels (End Game grind activities).
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Community and role-playing have become "boring bullshit". The only things that matter now are combat and progression. Pretty much sums up the argument.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
Honestly I feel like you are all suffering from a bad case of "the good ol days" Aka Nostalgia. Yeah I started playing when UO Lauched, yes I play WoW now. Are MMOs vastly different than they were? Yes
Is this bad? Objective, only good or bad to the individual.
Vin. WoW was a lot more like old school MMOs, like EQ and DAOC, Having an entire character dedicated to ONLY casting some buffs and then going afk for the whole fight is not really fun... Having hybrid classes that are only there for one ablility, or having people stay out of combat so they can res the people who die because thats all their good for....
Do we forget so quickly all the bad and only gloss it over with all our joyous memories?
I remeber things when they were great!
I also remember things when they sucked...
PS. Lets all not forget how OP all Stealth classes were in ALL MMO's until more recent attempts to balance the ability.
Edit: Also I find complaining about progression as if its only is effecting WoW or as if WoW is the source of the problem is just silly... Progression and all its problems / benefits, is something that EQ started us on over a Decade ago. Lets raise the level cap and obsolete all this work!
FFXI was quick to follow with new ex packs that released gear that blew away old stuff.
Its inherant in the game design
Difference being now, most games aren't worth even sticking around long enough to let expansions obsolete our old gear.
I remember the bad and the good, use to be a lot more good imo.
I like to do multiple things in games, if all I am doing is grinding gear, I get bored. I like to explore/harvest/craft/pve/pvp and some side stuff like diplomacy in VG...That way I have options.
Most newer mmos only seem to be able to pull 1-2 areas together, then ignore or have sucky supporting parts imo. I could list games and what they lacked...But the last game I really liked, despite its flaws was Vanguard. Last game I played was Rift, world was too small, and not many choices, if you didn't want to do what they wanted you to do....Its ok, if their path for you is enough...It wasn't for me.
So instead of a quest finder, you get a quest, a bot carries you to the location and completes the requirements then gives you big rewards.
Later they will patch it to eliminate the bot and replaces it with the quest giver completing the quest immediately after accepting it.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
pretty much, basicly ProgressQuest with 3d grafics is the trend if you strech it far.
http://www.progressquest.com
I realised that Blizzard was just making the same old crap a few weeks into Cataclysm, the new quests were cool/nice but when you reached end-game it was still the same old run heroics > get gear > run raids > get gear > do some PvP > get gear, it got old.
Thats why I am looking forward to Anet's Guild Wars 2, call me a fanboy if you will, but these guys have made it a point to let people know that their game will be based on community.
Anet isnt the only company though, many Indie companies and some of the big ones are slowly coming back to a "making games we want to play" mentality.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
OP, you're looking for a long, bygone era of the MMORPG genre. Sadly, it's essentially been gone for the last 6 years. It started changing (dying, TBH) in '05. And looking at what's out there lately and in the foreseeable future, I don't think it will come back, ever. Hell, you have an upcoming title proudly proclaiming having NPCs fill out your party (LOL, take a guess which one?
) You're asking about group play and a tight-knit community? That's gone.
It's all about "Massive Single Player Role Playing Game" now. It's all about Solo Play and Hamster Wheels (End Game grind activities).
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Community and role-playing have become "boring bullshit". The only things that matter now are combat and progression. Pretty much sums up the argument.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.