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For the first time in a long time, I'm not happy with the game.
Imsneaky
Member Posts: 138
Some things have changed and are very good things but the relationship between infantry and tanks is completely fubared.
Sappers have got to be made realistic because they are going to ruin the game for every dedicated tanker in this game. before the recent changes, the Sapper vs tank battle wasn't too bad. It was challenging for both sides of the fight. Remain patient and use stealth well and you stood a good chance of sapping that tank. Get sloppy or try to sap a tank that was well covered and you MIGHT get killed.
As a tanker, it was imperative that you be on the lookout or that sapper because you had to react as soon as he made his dash or you wouldn't get your turret turned in time. Keep a sharp lookout and you would probably be ok.
Still, in many situations, the Sapper was an advantage because he could wait till your were engaged with another tank or some other unit and then sprint up to you while you couldn't keep an eye out.
In the beginning of the game because of the lack of features like cover and concealment, infantry were completely at the mercy of the tanker, especially when there were no spawn limits. However, the game has advanced significantly beyond that and man changes have been instituted. Every change has brought more and more hardship for tankers. In the beginning it was a good thing. Tanking was too easy at that time.
The changes made tanking more of a challenge and more fun but too much of a good thing isn't a good thing. With 1.19, that line has now been crossed. It has now gotten to the point that tanks are nearly completely at the mercy of the Sapper. There is tons of cover that makes it ewasy for a Sapper to get very close to you. The worst part of the whole thing is that WWIIOL is supposed to be renowned for it's dedication to making each and every unit as historically accurate as possible.
Of course back when the game was in serious need of features, there was a need to convince layers to play infantry instead of armor. Many of those changes did just that. The Sapper was one of those changes and many players looked the other way because they knew it was needed. The non-historical sapper is no longer needed. With the realistic turret speeds, and turret noise, it has become for too easy for this non-historical unit to get to that tank before the tanker can do anything about it.
Infantry players will yelp that we tankers should bring along infantry support but if we do, they all run off to do other things. They don't seem to have the patience of a tanker, unless they are actually hunting a tank with a sapper that is.
It's time for the Sapper to be removed or made historical. The infantry players cry that you can't take away the sapper because he is a stand in for historical anti tank infantry units that haven't been modeled. Wee to put it bluntly, that is pure BS for two reasons. #1, many anti infantry abilities of the tanks have not been modeled either and #2, until the bazooka, infantry were totally inept at killing tanks.
Prior to the war the US Army had developed a shaped-charge hand grenade for anti-tank use that was effective at defeating up to 100mm of armor, by far the best such weapon in the world at the time. However, it was very hard to use in combat, needing to be placed directly on the tank, and for this reason it was largely ignored.Things changed when Colonel Leslie A. Skinner suggested placing the grenade on the front of his experimental rocket launcher, which was a weapon looking for a role. This proved to be a good match.
Development took place in Corcoran Hall at the George Washington University in Washington, D.C.. By late 1942, the Rocket Launcher, M1A1 was introduced. This consisted of a 4 ft (1.2 m) tube with a simple wooden stock and sights, into which the 60 mm rocket grenades were inserted at the rear. A small battery provided a charge to ignite the rocket when the trigger was pulled. The main drawback to the weapon was the large backblast and smoke trail which gave away the position of the shooter - compare to the British PIAT.
It was highly effective, so much so that the Germans copied it, possibly from those supplied to the Russians, to produce their own version known as the Panzerschreck.
Until the end of 1942, nobody had an effective weapon to deal with tanks that could be used by infantry. Antitank artillery guns were the only infantry weapon that was reliable at the job but that is not the kind of weapon we are talking about. We are talking about one an infantryman could run around the battlefield with. That grenade that had to be set on the tank is in game now in a form that never existed except by the Germans and AFAIK it was pretty big. I'm talking about magnetic mines to attach to the side of a tank. The unit in game never existed in it's current form. The guy sprints like the wind even though he carries four sathels 4 grenades, four smoke grenades, one rifle with 30 rounds and a knife. Of course in real life he would have also had other gear like a canteen he carried but will forget about that
The PIAT, an acronym standing for Projector Infantry Anti-Tank, is a very interesting british design that uses an entirely different approach than the Bazooka/Panzerschreck or the Panzerfaust. Indeed, it is rather a projector than a rocket launcher.When britain entered WW II, their infantry was only equipped with the Boys AT rifle that was obviously unfit for it's job of defeating enemy armor. The british realized that the usual cartridge projectile ammunition fired by tank rifles, no matter how high the muzzle velocity was, would not suffice.
The Piat and Bazooka type weapons came in around the end of 42 through 43. That is the time period that our equipment is undergoing modeling for right now. Of course these weapons will be quite good though not the wonder weapons some expect and they will not come in until tier 2 and tier 3. Up until then the AT ability of the infantry is supposed to be marginal at best.
The simple fact is that it seems that patch after patch had the intent of trying to make players prefer playing infantry over tanks. Not going to happen. Some players will simply leave the game when driving a tank is no longer any fun. For some, that day was long ago. I on this end, hope that day never comes for me though I have to say that I am going to be eyeing the production notes very closely and if balance isn't restored, I don't see myself sticking with this game I have loved for 4 years.
Comments
It doesn't matter if you can't find a squad with any patient infantry players. Tanks are support weapons, not mechs. They are supposed to have cover. Get fellow tankers to watch you even if you don't like infantry players so much. The fact is a lone tank shouldn't have a 50/50 chance of stopping a sapper if they are driving 5mph alone through dense terrain or a city.
Pnhobbit, I agree when a tank charges into an enemy stronghold, he should expect to get sapped. However the recent changes have made it so that Sappers are emboldened to creap into highly defended towns to sap tanks.
Look up Zimmerit which was the anti sapper coating Germany put on tanks. They only did this on offensive units because that was when a tank was in danger of having a sap put on them. Of course we won't go into the fact that it was a waste of time because only Germany developed the magnetic satchel and AFAIK it was quite heavy. You weren't going to sprint around the battlefield with 4 of them.
This is what now bothers me. I was engaging two tanks that were attacking one of our towns at night. There was another tank and several infantry near me and yet I hear a satchel charge get placed on the tank that was 50 feet away and when I went to my commander, the saper was of all things, WALKING, towards my tank. It is that easy now that the guy felt comfortable enough to WALK towards my tank.
With the new slow turret speeds, I couldn't get it turned in time and he placed a sap on me but he misplaced it and no damage was done. Still it ruined the game for me because it is to the point that you simply can't have any armor vs armor battles anymore without having to constantly look for a sapper placing charges on you even though you are surrounded by friendlies and in your own town.
There are too many tanks in the game as is, and for the most part they have become glorified camping machines in most battles (thats real historical
) . The new changes are great. They force the armored guys to at least think twice about entering a city enviorment where they dont belong and to have at least a few infantry near them. Since 1.19 Ive seen and been in some real good tank battles out side of towns where they belong. Cant say I agree with you on this one.
I was in Tienen yesterday engaging two tanks at night along with another tanker named Threstep. We are both day one players.
I had my commander up and was looking around but we were both in between tall grass and a berm and we had friendly inf all around. I counted 6 within close proximity and 3 of them were right near our tanks.
Anyway, as I was shooting I hear a satchel get placed. I scan quickly with my commander and see a Sapper literally walking from Thresteps tank toward mine. I switched back to the gunner and turned my turret towards him but he started running and placed one on mine as I then backed up.
He missed with both satchels. Both of our tanks were ok. I scanned around and both Threstep and myself had sprayed MG fire into the grass. The friendly inf were also looking for him running around the area. I would look each time I heard inf running up behind us and several times it was friendly inf. Then I here footsteps to my back right and sure enough this time it is our freindly sapper come to deliver a package of pixie dust.
I knew I couldn't get my turret turned in time so I started up quickly and spun my tank, hoping to simply mess up his placement. I did and he went after threstep again I guess because the next explosion took off one of Threstep's tracks.
This is complete fantasy and is ruining the game for me. We aren't talking about a tank pushing unsupported into enemy positions with no support. We are talking about a tank pulling up to a defensive position in his own town and engaging enemy tanks in the distance.
Completely stupid and ruining the game for me. I was lucky this time because the Sapper obviously didn't know the kill spots on the tank but many do and it's going to get boring in this game for me very quickly.
Then unsub, it isn't that hard. I've done it before for a year, come back later and check it out again when it changes. It's really not all that difficult, you've already got a thread on playnet you might as well just leave it there because no one here is really that excited about anything.
Could also see how much you like flying or sailing and maybe switch over for the time bieng.
That's a joke, right?
With the amount of stuff screwed up in the recent 1.19 patch, I doubt the Rats would get through the 'To Do' list for another 6 months or so.
Battleground Europe is slated for an August release ... that means they're looking at going gold with 1.2 probably within the next month at the latest.
It's gonna be a revisit of the initial launch .... lousy framerates, awful lag, a klutzy UI and what is now probably the most 'noob-unfriendly' game in the history of computer games.
CRS have once again managed to snatch defeat from a glorious victory.
It's gonna be bloody guys .... really bloody
I've experienced no framerate problems, the ctds I had a year ago are all gone. I haven't crashed one, lag is nearly gone and is awesome compared to when I quit a year ago. The game has more people playin, the UI is amazing, and organization is now easy. There are more units, more people online, and action is easier to find. Kadesh obviously you don't play the game, you seem to be an experienced troll though, but I'm sure you practiced a lot more whining than you spent time playing the actual game.
'More people playing'?
Gimme a break. Have you checked the TS logs for either the Axis or Allied side over the past couple of weeks? I know that not everyone uses Teamspeak, but its a pretty good proxy for determining overall numbers levels between the sides.
TS numbers are down on average 35% since the release of 1.19.
Why the hell do you think CRS refuse to update the main login page? It's been showing the same numbers of kills for Axis and Allied for the past week.
In my timezone, where once we would expect 50-60 people on teamspeak, we have been averaging 10.
But I'm glad to see you have had no stutter, lag or CTD problems.
Now if every one of CRS' 'hoped-for' BE new subscribers is as lucky as you, well they might just survive this launch.
But I wouldn't bet on it.
Chances are you don't even or haven't even played the game in 6 months. You're probably just whining because you got banned for hacking the game or cheating and you want to spite CRS.
Numbers are up since 1.19 steadily and there is definitely action going on. Your numbers are falsified as I can find 9 people on in morning hours on Sunday in just my squad. Most people who have problems running 1.19 get about 10 posts in and realize they have made a mistake and go "oh...well it works now." Mostly it's just the sound driver is set wrong or you need to set windows nt compatibility. Get a life and stop spamming lies about the game.
The numbers are down IMHO for two reasons. One being the FPS hits alot of people took (happend after 1.18 but got fixed) which is bound to be fixed. Two the Metz fiasco which seriously hurt the Axis player base. As I see it this campaign is a glorified BETA test. Once 1.20 comes around in a few weeks I expect the Tiger to bring back a lot of players. Just my opinion.
How do you guys know the number of ppls?
I had the impression that it increased but I can't find any info anywhere
The number of players has increased a little according to the rats.
After the initial launch the rats have been very tight lipped about numbers.
v1.2 was released in 2001. It is v1.20 (and nothing else) that is said to be released in August 2005. A pretty big difference if you asks me.
Numbers are low on the axis side (because they are being beaten, because the allies got rdp before them, because of the metz fiasco and in general because there are a lot of players who refuse to spawn into a brigade for their own reasons).
However the Allied side are experiencing incredible numbers at the moment due to morale and most of that is taken from the playskool forums.
S!
Life can be tapped
http://www.wwiiol-pilots-manual.com/
There is an much more easy way, just surf brigades and watch how many officers are online,
cause most of the gamer are officers ingame u can imagine how many playing.
The game has a big crisis at the moment cause of the huge changes with 1.19, the problem is that still most of the gamers stick with the game for years or at least more than a year and lots of them have problem to get used to the new version at all, some are satisfied and some totally dont like it even if the full change with all function from brigade spawning didnt happen.
Slamen's analysis seems the most valid ('scientific') to me. Of course the number of kills listed on the webpage should be trustworthy and up-to-date for this method to work.
Anyway, except for the fps-issue, CDT's for some people and some complaints about overpowered sappers (although the turret-rotation is a good thing imo), I really like 1.19 and the 'brigade spawning'.
I don't get why people object to this brigade-focus so much. Especially the officers. They can just create a mission where they want and continue playing as before, no?
I have the impression that the brigade-focus has improved communication (also between squads), and attacks and operations generally (and almost 'automatically') involve more people and squads (whilst before my squad mostly acted on itself). I must admit that I still have to get used to the new GUI. And I did hurry my advancement to 2nd Lt artificially (despawn after 10 minutes) just in case I wanted to post a mission. But up until now, my army persona has always stayed with 2nd Infantry Division/2nd Armored Brigade and theres never been any lack of missions or action. And if that should happen, I just post (a useful) mission myself or just change brigade.
QA with the developers:
Q: With the introduction of more Anti-Tank equipment for Infantry, will we see the Sapper phased out? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
A: I think Sappers will take on more of the traditional engineer role. Building and destroying structures like bridges and forward positions will become their primary tasksGrin. Seeing as how the Tiger is a Tier 3 tank, you reckon we'll see it for more than, oh, 4 weeks a year?
The 190 has been out now for 6 months but has only ever made it into game twice!
LOL, man you are SO far off the mark you wouldn't believe it.
I think you're confusing me with Beatb0x (or wedge23 as he now calls himself in game)
Grin. Seeing as how the Tiger is a Tier 3 tank, you reckon we'll see it for more than, oh, 4 weeks a year?
The 190 has been out now for 6 months but has only ever made it into game twice!
You should really read what CRS post in the "Production Notes" every now and then. It has been clearly said that the RD&P will be broken down to sperate RD&P lines, one for each branch, and proberbly even types. Hence, we will see one standalone RD&P for Aircrafts, one standalone RD&P for Armoured vehicles, and I expect eventually one standalone RD&P for Infantry, et cetera. Eventually will it be a very long list what will be added through RD&P.
The RD&P we seen so far is only the beginning, not a final feature.