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Where are your REAL critical reviews?
thefinn
Member Posts: 46
After reading MMORPG for several years I have been increasingly disillusioned at the quality and in some cases plain truthfulness of your reviews of games.
I guess running a site like mmorpg there are several ways to go when deciding upon a particular strategy with regards to reviewing games. You can either earn the respect of users by giving them a REAL review of games, or you can make sure you always have access to developers ears and are able to send an email to developers and they will answer - knowing no matter how bad their game is - you're going to give them some free advertising in the form of a positive review.
Now After reading a review of darkfall recently which was widely laughed at by most users in the know regarding the situation of darkfall. I replied as you can see below, only to be given a warning with regard to my "flaming" ?!?
Now I guess if I was flaming anyone, it wasn't another user - it was the site itself. The baseless ridiculous notion that darkfall in its' present form should be looked at by users who might be looking for a decent MMO at present is completely unfounded.
The state of the game is as such that the development cycle is now starting anew. The developers themselves are saying on their own site that a WIPE of ALL characters and shards could well be forthcoming as they are rewriting most of the game from scratch.
How then can MMORPG be telling their users to consider darkfall as an mmo that should be played right now?
This basic type of "critical" review is nothing more than absurd ramblings of people that know either nothing about what they write or actually DO know but don't care.
My suggestion for mmorpg is to start trying to earn the respect of your userbase instead of just constantly managing your connections with the development community - which if users respected your views would come anyhow.
tf.
[mod edit]
Comments
It should be pointed out this link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/search.cfm/query/Reviews
There was particular good discussion in:
Jon Wood: Grinds My Gears: Critique Our Reviews on May 13, 2011 is worth a READ in light of the above.
There's also additional functionality eg video reviews and user generated reviews (SEE LINK).
Tbh, there's many different ways of reviewing eg video review "guide", scoring systems as well as measuring eg "meta-score" aggregates across the interwebz as well as quality write up traditional reviews.
But it can all be very subjective or relative even if trying to achieve objective consensus in using all the above!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I think you mean, "where are the reviews that I agree with?" Reviews are just opinion articles. Sometimes, the reviewer and the reader will come to different conclusions. You mentioned Darkfall which is an appropriate example. I've seen reviews that were pretty favorable and others that asserted that the game is almost unplayable. Now, if I had an opinion on Darkfall (I don't) I would have to disagree with at least one of these reviewers. That doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong; it' just different from my own. Apparently, some people play the game and enjoy it. Others don't like it at all.
As far as MMORPG.com's reviews go, I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe they aren't honest. But, maybe they're not. What difference does it make? We're talking about video games here. This is not hard journalism.
None of this is worth getting upset about.
So, I have to ask: what's with all the emotion over a video game that you don't even play? Why rage on a video game site that it appears you don't even like? I've considered myself a gamer for many years. This is one aspect of this community that I will never understand.
@OP: as someone who has extensive experience with warnings and bans and frequently gets annoyed with it, I can tell you that the phrase 'are you crazy?' followed up by 'mmorpg.com is always hyping crap' as a cherry on top is definitely modbait and shouldn't come as a surprise that you'll get a warning for that.
Read the RoC, I've come to familiarise myself with them quite well over the course of time and many infractions.
As for the biased part, if that means that only the 'righteous' critics are targeted then you're very wrong: as a general rule I've been anti game bashers and serial critics on this site and more on the side of fans of certain MMO's for the simple reason that I find the critics and game bashers on this site often to be more biased and extremist in their viewpoints than the MMO fans of certain MMO's.
Yet the mods show little partiality in who they give infractions and bans, no matter which side of the argument you're on.
As for the comment regarding MMO reviews, I frankly laugh at the whole idea that MMO reviews are only deemed trustworthy when they're as negative and in bashing agreement with the opinion of MMO gamers who dislike this or that game. To look at it more constructively and clear minded, Mumbo Jumbo has posted a link where a good discussion can be found about what could be improved in reviewing, a question the mmorpg.com people have been asking of the site visitors themselves.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This. MMORPG's reviews may be a little generous, but that's their choice. They're allowed to write reviews the way they want to, and it's rather silly to assume that their gaming experience would be exactly the same a yours. And speaking of your opinion, you can always write your own review. On this site. And judging by all the games that got 2.0s, those results certainly aren't censored.
Having said that I might well have modded the OP's post.I'm going to leave this topic open as there is room for a discussion of reviews here. However, to the OP, please do not post correspondence regarding infractions. If you wish to appeal a warning or ban you are more than welcome to get in touch with me at community@mmorpg.com. I'll evaluate your case just as I do with everyone else, and if we're in the wrong, I'll be glad to rectify the situation for you.
Thanks!
Pretty much agree with the first part of this post. So i cut the rest:P
Way i look at all reviews, Caveat Emptor, (Buyer beware). A review is ALWAYS, an opinion. Some opionions are honest and some can be bought.
The trick is to get to know the reviewer, as much as we can, by trying the games that the reviewer has opined on, and see if we agree. Once you have that, the knowledge of, if the reviewer is honest AND likes the same type of games you do? well then you can start to take that particular reviewers word and opinion as to if you may agree and like the games too.
Until you have a bit of history, and context, no opinion, of reviewer, gamer, or anything can be said to be worth anything to us. After all, it all comes down to wether YOU may like the game, not anyone else. 99% scores on a RTS or FPS ( even if completely honest and true) can not make someone that hates those type games enjoy them.
As to the rest of OP, my stock answer, and my main philosophy, don't argue with the man with the gun, IE: the mods have the power, enough said.
I don't NEED real critical reviews,i just ask for the TRUTH.Yes i know opinions or reviews often are not covered as truth or a lie,but i think most of us can tell when it is.
One simple example...
If i see someone give a review,then follows that up by saying he is preordering,that is pretty mcuh a given he is a fanbois,supporting that game no matter what is actually released.As for the site itself,if we see a review popup the same time as advertising for that game,we will assume skewed.
I might add that is postively ok for a developer to ASK for a review along with their advertising dollars,just be truthfull to the readers about the how and why.
IMO MOST reviews SHOULD be critical and i will tell you why...
It is because i KNOW what these developers can accomplish or do with these games and trust me they are not giving us half of what they could or should.I am also 100% positive i am not alone on this,i am postive others know what these developers could be offering as well..There is not many secrets anymore,these developers know darn well what the majority of people want,yet they continue to feed off of each other and deliver sub par efforts.
FFXi took 5 years just to start turning a profit,this means the developer was more interested in putting into the game than instant profit.Then we have Guild Wars,does it really take a rocket scientist to realize that if the game is turning an isntant profit,that not much went into the development?It is very simple math.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Above is a truthful review of your post, I give it a 5/10.
For the OP, I've been thinking recently about this site and some of the things that could be improved. The reviews I do agree are usually a bit too positive, although I wonder if the reviews were negative people would complain and the fanbois would get angry. Things just need to be fair and balanced I guess, but there is another major issue...
Any reviews for an MMO is completely speculation. MMOs aren't a 10-40 hour gameplay and done genre. Typical video game reviews people play only for a week or two max. And we wonder why almost all MMOs are frontloaded with high quality starting areas/quests/classes but are ridiculously buggy, unfinished, and flawed endgame... Oh great this game got a 8/10 but contains no endgame, horribly buggy past the first few starting areas and not all the "features" are implemented yet. But its not until someone is months deep into a game that they truely get a grasp on the quality of an MMO.
I don't know if there is a "good" way to review an MMO... but in general they are just marketing fluff, theres no way to accurately guage an MMO unless they have played the game for months... which no "professional" reviewer would do... why bother when you can easily spit out a review every week on simple single player games.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
I'm not entirely sure people understood the original post regarding darkfall specifically.
Let me just get this straight for ya as quickly as I can.
The game is basically being re-written and characters are said to be being wiped - after about 2 years of the game going live.
This re-write and wipe haven't happened yet - but AV say they are on the horizon, and the server populations have all but died as a result. Even the most hardcore fanboys of Darkfall are now very disillusioned with it.
Now take a look at this article naming Darkfall as the #1 game people should be taking another look at!
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5565/Five-MMOs-Worth-a-Second-Look.html
Let me ask a simple question then. If next month (which is a dubious timeline for the Aventurine devs let me tell you) they were to wipe the servers, would you feel ripped off/happy with mmorpg after spending $50 for the game or whatever it is they're charging now (I haven't checked in some time) during this month ?
Now also, keep in mind, this isn't even the first time they have done this.
Their take on MMO's and many games generally show a distinct lack of knowledge about the game for anyone who's played for any great length of time. It seems far more like access to developers overrides realistic reviews or review processes. Developers know they can come to MMORPG to get some free publicity, no matter how bad their game is.
MMORPG doesn't care how uncritical they are, because they themselves are not criticized.
If someone DOES critisize them, they send them a moderator warning for flaming..
My EVE YouTube Channel
I don't know that the site needs fewer opinion pieces, but it would be nice to see some nod to journalistic principles of fairness encorporated into the reviews. Facts and opinions are too often interwoven, making it difficult for a reader interested in the facts to extract that information. It can be entertaining, but very frustrating for the reader, and the staff / site both. If the critique is deemed as too harsh against a game, the staff / site risk losing that company as a potential advertiser.
MMORPG and its staff are in the entertainment business, and their primary business is providing opinions. I enjoy what I read here; it is, for the most part, well-written and informative. But I would like to see their current opinion-based Reviews supplimented with an equal number of factually-driven articles.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
However Hacks in the book world or movie world might be given books/films to review weekly and such professional critics could not care less if they produce a scathing review as it fulfils their function, cements their reputation and covers only the requisite amount of time to produce per hourly rate. Even if the prose is entertainingly flowery such critical reviews can still end up being lacking real information and context and content ie "TRUTH" as much as a glowing review.
Often with publications more specialized than the above Hacks, the opposite what the OP is referring to applies with ppl enthused about the industry seeing the "shades of good" and overall relation to the wider domain eg this case mmorpg genre and which types of these players of the various types in the playerbase will enjoy these games.
An eg I could take of movies IMO would be Inception by Christopher Nolan who succeeded in energizing the blockbuster Hollywood big-event movie (as did James Cameron with Avatar) and subsequently received a lot of favorable reviews, yet IMO this movie was not that great taken in isolation, but those reviewers were as deliriously happy as if the first rains of the Monsoon had arrived! Off-topic I do think Avatar warranted such positive reception, perhaps the Warcraft of movies?!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Reviews of any kind of media is an individual perception, a point of view based on countless factors.
On top if my head, I can find a couple of choices if you want to take a game and cook it down to a score or a handful of paragraphs of text.
You go with your own opinion, you can try to be as objective as you can using your "feel of the gaming community". But in the end it's always a matter of perspective. I always felt like the people that do write reviews for any media should go with their gut, with their own non-filtered opinion. Explain why they like/dislike certain features and also why!
You can have a system basen of a number of pre-set parameters or rules, and try to pit each game against said parameters to filter down a summarized list or artice.
You could try to keep opinion out of it and just state cold hard facts, listing features, subs etc. But this isn't a review, if you want a review you'd have to have an opinion as a foundation.
Like I mentioned in the first point, I believe that the best review is one based on one persons unfiltered opinion, where they let their opinion shine through. If I can find an author that pretty much share my taste in game, I may not even have to read the review, only the conlusion of it.
If a review totally guts a game, as long as there's an explenation why, I can form an opinion of the game. Even better if I read the authors work before.
As long as I can form an opinion of the game from a review, why in the world would I care if the author loves or hates a game? I know that whatever game I play there's many out there that hates it, doesn't affect my view of the game. Some people just can't accept that others don't share their taste or opinions.
@Wizardry (love the name btw, I actually remember that game
) The truth usually is a little good and a little bad - thus being critical of the game. All I'd like to hear are the good and bad realities of the game.
As it is with level based systems we're not going to even find out in most reviews if there's a lack of content at higher levels - because the reviewer is going to be playing for maybe a few hours to a week or so. They aren't going to experience high level combat, pvp, pve or such.
@Grimfern - The problem I see now is that the reviews are less to do with merit or even opinion, and more to do with the inability of mmorpg to distance themselves from the developers and the hand shakers at games cons and meet and greets. Liking the people means liking their game, or it could even be worse than that.
Currently most western press do the same thing within politics. They either print the story as the politicians would like the story printed, or they ... don't get new material from them any longer. Personally, I'd really like to find a site/reviewer that can just tell me what the truth is before I go out and spend my hard earned money on games like darkfall.
My EVE YouTube Channel
There is no one and only truth. One person could have an awesome time and the time of his life in a game, where another person could enter a fit of rage and come close to homicidal tendencies and endless vomiting if he's compelled to play that same game for an extended period of time.
Best thing to do is just look up various reviews from several sources, check some negative as well as positive reviews that both seem to be relatively fair/objective and detailed, and then make up your mind whether to give it a try. The truth usually always lies somewhere in the middle, never in the extreme viewpoints.
And a good rule is, when in doubt, don't buy or make rash decisions but just wait and see how things progress.
This is actually untrue, I've seen some pretty critical discussions going on, about DCUO among others. Only when people become either obnoxious or insulting or any other violation of the ROC will mods intervene. As long as things are kept civil and no ad hominem attacks take place, posts will be left relatively unharmed most of the times.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Reason to say this, plenty of Darkfall fans on the forums have punched their positive comments, well above their weight in actual sub numbers in various threads. ; )
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I read reviews but they never sway my decision on what I want to play. Now if I did go by reviews I would never go on what a critic says rather I would see what fellow gamers say.
"Everything journalists write is true, except when they write about something you know." -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav
"Journalism - a profession whose business it is to explain to others what it personally does not understand." ~Lord Northcliffe
I think the reviews are justified in presentation. Some sites *cough* trash and bad mouth any and everything because to their readers it looks cool. Most reviews here come off as "it is what it is" and let me tell you about it. It's not an industry critique, it's a presentation of information about a game for those who want to determine if it is interesting for them.
I don't see this as bias, but rather being polite.
People are still polite these days, right?
I think reviewers in general focus on the positive about MMO's, and not so much the negatives, because when you get right down to it, fun can be found in almost any MMORPG, at least for a little while.
As for the DF complaints, if you were to start today, you could easily get a month or more of "fun" out of the game, and learn how to play and survive in the world.
No matter what DF 2.0 is, or when it's released, or if they decide to wipe the game, they'll be releasing a newer version with many of the same harsh game mechanics and lessons learned now will certainly carry over.
Also, I rather suspect they'll offer some form of bonus to those who stuck with them, there likely will be some sort of advantage for current or even past subscribers, a leg up so to speak, so if you might want to play 2.0, better think about giving it a go now.
No matter how much you hate DF, right now it is one of the few games of its type and you don't have a lot of good choices on the horizon.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've critisized MMORPG.com many times on these forums, and sometimes very harshly, and I can say that I think I have been warned once for being a little over-zealous in my remarks about them. I will say this though, they at least stick to their guns when it comes to discussing moderaation on these boards. If you have an issue with it, they will gladly listen to you and give you a prompt answer via private PM's and or emails. You should be greatful they do this, some forums do not even give you that curtesey - they just outright ban you.
I think at the heart of my annoyance with reviews on this site is the same thing that bothers me about the industry as a whole and a lot of recent development in this genre.
I don't like the things which have become the focus of the genre, and so I don't like the primary focus of most MMORPG reviews. Polish, smoothness, accessibility... how fast and easy is the game to learn and play, and how often do I get rewards? Does the game avoid ever causing a negative experience or emotion? Does the game provide "enough" content?
I would much rather if developers, and reviewers, focused on what (in my mind, at least) really makes a good MMORPG. Depth, game play and mechanics that really draw you in and keep you playing and learning. Social elements and community-building really baked into every aspect. Replayability. A breadth of viable options for advancement and exploration. The world...it's immersiveness and scope and complexity and internal consistency - all the little environmental and story elements that add up to a realistic virtual world.
I'm not saying polish and accessibility aren't important...but they aren't the PRIMARY elements of what makes a good MMORPG, or at least they shouldn't be. When an extremely shallow, linear, small, and finite solo-centric game with rigidly boxed content and a complete lack of immersiveness or soul can get the highest ever scores on this site, simply due to being easily familiar and polished, something is wrong with the review process (and the development) in this genre.
EDIT: I think the problem with focusing on the real tenets of a good MMORPG in the current genre is that pretty much all games would get negative reviews. There's a reason why just about every game in the last six years has had a very hard time retaining subscribers. If the reviews on this site reflected the general feelings of players in the genre, it would be pretty depressing and probably hard for mmorpg.com to get advertising. I guess as soon as more MMORPG developers start focusing on what's really important, reviewers of the genre will be able to do the same.
Sorry meltdown yo utotally missed the entire concept of what i was saying and the TOPIC..../sigh
You somehow twisted it look like we are just talking about only fabois buy a game,pretty lame flame there dude.YOU clearly stated that you bought tons of pre orders WITHOUT ever playing the game,so how would you have possibly given a review then?IF you had of given a review then we would assume skewed but i shoudln't need to explain we are talking about what we as the reader would FEEL,it does not mean FACT.
As for giving a game a good review that knows it can turn a profit on box sales alone,is again something you missed ,not sure how,guess i am not good at explaining things.I will break it down using a couple simple examples.Game A knows it is making it's profits on box sales alone,that game has no housing or mounts,so why not put more effort into that game to make it a GOOD game and show the effort and recover those costs say over the next year in sub fees?This is why i would NOT give a game a good review if they are blatantly going the cheaper easier profit route.If they can turn a profit that EASILY then they should be spending more money to deliver a BETTER product,it is THAT simple.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Not bashing your comment, it would be cool to see some in-depth gaming. However, you might be in for one seriously long wait. We're lucky anymore to have a game release that is relatively bug-free, has most of the feature set as advertised, and isn't a pay to win fragfest.
"Good" in today's market is mediocre at best.
First off, a "review" on this or any other site is simply the OPINION of the reviewer. It may or may not match up with your OPINION. In any case its up to the individual player to make up their own minds about a game. What I look for in a game tends to be a good combat system, at least some lore and good graphics. That coupled with client/server stability, and the existence of a PvE server option, are what I look for when I'm looking for a new game to play. But thats me. Others will have different things that interest them.
I doubt there is any "conspiracy" at MMORPG to rate any given game in any given fashion. But as I stated, different reviewers will have different styles and different perspectives. Not to mention that this IS a business. Over the years MikeB and the others have been pretty even handled and fair. There have been a few calls that I'd question, but thats simply the nature of these types of subjectives, and since its their site, its their call to make.
In the final analysis, no one should be using any sites reviews to make up their minds about any given game. Do your own research. Check out any Youtube videos, and the game site itself. If they have a few trial, get some first hand experience for yourself. Bottom line, think for yourself and make your own choices.