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I'm so confused! I see thread after thread (or replies within threads) about endgame complains in X game. Most of them read something like:
"After I level up to max level and run all the instances to get all the game... the game gets boring"
No sh*t? You beat the game... move onto something else. There IS nothing else. Grinding Rep, Grinding Honor, Grinding PvP... If you complete all the instances/content and get all the gear you're done with the game.
Look at console games, you pay 60 bucks and get maybe 20-30 hours at best? Unless you enjoy PvP style games like CoD (and if thats the case you can play battlegrounds in MMO's).
MMO. You pay 60 bucks and easily get 20-30+ hours of content before you're done. You can do that all within the 30 days free they give you. SOOOO. MMORPG that has no endgame as you call it, still same value as any console game.
Bla Bla Bla.
Comments
Because that's not the point. That's not what we as MMO players want. We want a persistant game that continues on month to month, and continues to be interesting. That's why we are willing to pay monthly fees for these games. I put some more money down, you give me reasons to keep staying. Think of it as looking for a long term relationship, instead of a couple flings. Costs more, but (hopefully) more benefits.
The problem is (like interpersonal relationships) after the honeymoon phase we get bored. With people, you can find ways to keep things interesting and fun. The MMO market has a hard time doing that. So we complain, hoping that they will listen, take heart, and make changes for us. If they don't, THEN we'll move on.
MMORPGs are not the same in any way as a normal single player game. For the most part MMOs are very repetative and have little in terms of a driving force (read: story) to get you through the game. In addition they are supposed to be designed, and are often billed as, games where you are able to interact with large groups of people and play with your friends.
However, due to people not always being able to play the same amount of time there will often be players who are not of the same level who may enjoy gaming together. This is only not true at level cap where a lot of people are able to group and play with their friends and guilds in a very fair and real way. It is not like a FPS where player A can play with players B and C regardless of time spent in the game.
In addition, MMOs focus much more on the building of a character and improving them over time. To say that it "ends" when you reach the level cap is ignoring what the rest of the game has been leading towards. Its not as if this is Dragon Age or Halo where the game has been leading towards a conclusion. In fact, MMOs do not usually have stories that lead to an ending point because they want you to keep subscribing.
The game style you are descibing makes absolutely no sense. It would be terrible for the game company who would have to shut down servers after a few months since people would stop playing after they hit level cap. In addition there would be absolutly no reason to build a community within the MMO.
From everything you have wrote it seems to me that you have little idea of why most people play MMOs and are trying to compare them to a game style that does not match. If you are coming into TOR with this attitude I worry that you may end up being disapointed with the way things end up working.
For the most part I have to agree with the OP. For me the game is about building a character up to max level, or the journey, and therefore endgame is not so special to me. I don't mind the raids and warzones and such, but for the most part I will just create a new toon and try out different stories (quests).
I still don't undersand why people get all mad about the endgame content though. It's not like any developer, even Blizzard, can make and release content faster than we can complete it, even for the casual player. Expecting that from any company just seems foolish to me.
I guess it is a good thing that it will take about 200 hours per toon to get to max in this game AND that each classes personal story is completely different. That way MY replayability is fully covered even without thinking about the branching story lines and lightside/darkside decisions.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
MMOs used to be about Community/Longevity/Charachter Development and Fun....
I hate the word endgame , Power or Godliness factor against a charachter is more fitting.
If you can reach MAx Level at All the game is badly designed, they should cover a 2.5 years cycle to real endgame/power to really get any value out of these games.
Otherwise go buy a console game .....
I think the reason the poster here is confused is that like most players today have never played a game where end game was not necessary due to the game design. I would say only a few games exist today where this is the case.
But back to the posters main question ... Why flog a dead horse I agree move on ...
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The problem with MMO's today that there is no fluff features, nice little diversions from the gear slot machine game and whack a mole with other players so u can get some Pez from the dispenser, SWG, UO, Vanguard, EQ, all of them had fluff features that made the game more enjoyable and bearable to play for years when u wanted to do other things sides raid and pvp, minigames, crafting, building houses, decorating, diplomacy, creating your own content, space combat, being a enterainer, player bounty system, etc, if a lot of these fluff features were adopted more widely into mainstream mmos I might consider play and trying new stuff, but when all you offer is pvp and raids that is NOT going to keep me playing forever.
If game developers would start adopting more of the hybrid (sandbox/themepark) model we might be able to see some more fluff features that would extend the life of a game and stregthen it as well by offering more options to other players.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
/thread tbfh.....
Think about why people DO stick around at endgame:
1.) There is PvE Content to complete
2.) There are items to acquire
3.) There is meaningful PvP to complete with its own rewards
4.) THE COMMUNITY
If you aren't enjoying the company of the people you play with...chances are you won't enjoy the game as much as well.
E.g.
Aion - I played for 1.5 years. Why? Community. Game was repetitive and boring and we did the same shit day in day out. But the only reason we did it was because we were friends playing in a tightly knit community of players and enjoyed each others company. Also the Server forum Drama was brilliant. We made strong enemies and got along with them very well in the end.
Rift - Played for the first month, got to max cap...started PvP/ PvE grind of dungeons/BGs. By now most of my community that came over from Aion either dissolved or quit Rift or didn't even join. I didn't join a new guild since I wanted to stick with the people I knew. But even then, it just wasn't that fun. Perhaps I could have enjoyed Rift if I joined a new community of players. Guess I'll never know. Ended up quitting after the first month.
So yes, endgame content is important since its what you will be spending the majority of your time doing, WITH PEOPLE YOU WANT TO DO IT WITH!!
If MMO's were summed up as the OP describes them, I'd still playing console games.
Welll what the OP said is true for themepark MMOs. Exploration is weak, social interaction is weak, you only have dungeons and PVP to keep you interested and need new content soon.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I'm not sure if the OP approves of endgame or not, but I'll comment on this part of the post.
That's why there is such a thing as endgame. Themepark MMOs end up top-heavy with a bunch of players at level-cap standing around having nothing to do. Endgame provides them something. Sure in many cases it's repeating content over and over trying to catch the golden ring, but it's something. Gear progression is just as real as level progression, so the game isn't over. Instead of levels they go up in stats.
I think the big negative about endgame is that it detracts from the reason for the leveling process, to enjoy the content. To me, ripping through content to reach endgame defeats the purpose of the journey.
Thinking outside of the box like what? WoW? They drop new content in wow every 3-6 months, and inbetween that have holiday events nearly every month. add in features like Achivements and you now have everything your looking for in a MMO. Now lets look at the old ways of doing it, Everquest followed this same thing, the only diffrence is you payed for the expantion every 6-8 months, did that new expantion last you 6-8 months, no it prob lasted you 3 at most. but you stuck around threw it cause by this time you heard oh hey there comming out with more cool things you can buy. WoW achieved the exact same thing everquest achieved and gave it too you for free. Dont get me wrong, I hold EQ on a platform 10 times higher then anything wow could do. but that didnt stop me from playing wow for neary 5 years stright.
The point is, even adding in a new quest hub and a new instance every 3-6 months is enough to keep most caual gamers subbscribed, and thats normaly the targetd population. the hard core guys stick around for the new raids, they may un sub between raid content, but usuly not because there in guilds that count on them, and level alts up. The only people that dont stick around to games are the ones that dont like the game, or the deves choose not to add in free content on a reaguler basis and drive there target population away.
This is also why a lot of games look like they fail in the first year of comming out, examples AoC, for the first year of the game they were so busy working on fixing it they lost most of there subs, but if you talk to a returining person that enjoyed the AoC after the first year, where they start droping in that reaguler update with new stuff. they would tell you its a fun game. I personaly dont know anyone who played AoC since launch to current, but I know people that have since then enjoyed the game.
Its not all MMOs, its mostly themeparks where i have the endgame problem...
For me MMOs used to be about building an online community. As with any community there were good guys and bad guys, "family drama", merchants, and killers, towns to defend and conquer... all of it..
Now, its just chasing purples, and daily quests, for me at least, thats gotten tiresome... Yay, "i beat the game..." but wait..!
Once you collect all the purples you can carry, they slap on a whole new set of purples to chase..
Its the nature of the themepark beast, but we seem to be getting bombarded with them. They all follow the strict rules of themepark gameplay, trying to grab that golden ring... And if they try to vear off the beaten path, the message boards get into an uproar...