Non-instanced player housing is overrated and pointless, IMO. All it does is make a game world artificially larger because developers have to waste large plots of land and resources that could be better spent on additional dungeons or some other gameplay mechanic. Instead, that same land gets wasted on housing plots that few people will ever build on or care about, and which will become an eyesore once those players leave the game.
EQ2 had a good system. It's the only game I ever bothered having a house in, because I could decorate it with things my character got and I could sell from it.
I don't see the need for non-instanced housing. Better to spend those same development resources on something more useful.
Non instanced player housing lends itself to player cities which is probably the most underrated feature in an mmorpg. Instanced housing is ok, but not as good as non instanced. The stuff that ppl complain about (eyesores, clutter, wasted space etc) are things that a developer can fix with checks and balances rather than just making it instanced.
Housing really only works in open pvp areas, and when storage is otherwise hard to come back. Hiding in my house or a friend's house from PK or two made for some great UO memories.
Like someone else said, Player Housing can make for some great exporing. Exploring the game world itself can be a bit limited, but I use to spend hours at a time wandering my shard checking out player houses and this was before the custom housing too. Before lock-downs when players would lock their doors I'd even do this as a ghost.
Non instanced player housing lends itself to player cities which is probably the most underrated feature in an mmorpg. Instanced housing is ok, but not as good as non instanced. The stuff that ppl complain about (eyesores, clutter, wasted space etc) are things that a developer can fix with checks and balances rather than just making it instanced.
Unless there is a city planner class or some sort of zoned housing area for player cities, most player cities will end up being an eyesore, especially once those players leave the game. Player cities are also, by design, a waste of resources and land that make a game world artificially larger for no reason.
I can understand a completely player-driven game like A Tale in the Desert having non-instanced housing, but beyond that, it's pointless. I'd rather see the devs spend those same resources building new dungeons to explore or some other kind of player encounter.
Non-instanced player housing is overrated and pointless, IMO. All it does is make a game world artificially larger because developers have to waste large plots of land and resources that could be better spent on additional dungeons or some other gameplay mechanic. Instead, that same land gets wasted on housing plots that few people will ever build on or care about, and which will become an eyesore once those players leave the game.
EQ2 had a good system. It's the only game I ever bothered having a house in, because I could decorate it with things my character got and I could sell from it.
I don't see the need for non-instanced housing. Better to spend those same development resources on something more useful.
With so many themeparks making their dungeons instanced, and their pvp instanced (or in lakes) perhaps housing could once again populate the open areas of the game?
Now it seems like its mostly used for levelling up, and then abandoned.
I loved DAoC housing. They kept adding housing zones so i think it is a much sought after feature. I really enjoyed it as it felt more like a world instead of a ride. The fact that I could have my own bank and merchant at my house was nice and to me housing helped build community.
Originally posted by Foomerang Non instanced player housing lends itself to player cities which is probably the most underrated feature in an mmorpg. Instanced housing is ok, but not as good as non instanced. The stuff that ppl complain about (eyesores, clutter, wasted space etc) are things that a developer can fix with checks and balances rather than just making it instanced.
Unless there is a city planner class or some sort of zoned housing area for player cities, most player cities will end up being an eyesore, especially once those players leave the game. Player cities are also, by design, a waste of resources and land that make a game world artificially larger for no reason. I can understand a completely player-driven game like A Tale in the Desert having non-instanced housing, but beyond that, it's pointless. I'd rather see the devs spend those same resources building new dungeons to explore or some other kind of player encounter.
I think a landscaping class in tandem with a city mayor would helpa lot, or just combine the two. There should also be risk of losing your house to wild animals or pillagers if you choose to plant a house out in the middle of nowhere. I also think premade houses in a premade city should be rented out on a first come first serve basis. So for example if they had a non instanced apartment building in a major city would be a cool idea. You could have houses and condos in major cities that could hold most of the players on a server. If someone doesnt pay rent for the week, they get evicted and the space becomes available. No prepaying for places months in advance, it is only available for currently active players that way.
With so many themeparks making their dungeons instanced, and their pvp instanced (or in lakes) perhaps housing could once again populate the open areas of the game?
Now it seems like its mostly used for levelling up, and then abandoned.
The only reason non-instanced housing even exists is to give people a way to brag about how rich they are in a game world. That's it. For all the rapturous talk of player cities and player driven economies, at the end of the day, they're just bragging tools to show others that you can dump a lot of cash and resources into building a big, elaborate house in an open location.
Instanced housing saves in-game land and development resources and still gives players the ability to build and customize a dwelling for their character if they really want it. Of all the games I've played these past 12+ years, EQ2 really nailed it down as far as housing went.
I have no experience with SWG. I've seen the non-instanced housing in Vanguard and Mortal Online though, and it kinda irks me to see 19-20th Century housing in a Medieval Fantasy World. In violent, smaller-scale societies, people didn't build out in the middle of nowhere. I hate the idea of going through all the trouble to buy and build a house in the middle of nowhere in a game. The locations of the housing areas in Vanguard are majorly off the beaten path. I would love to see the shanty sprawl in the shadow of a city. Maybe the uber, leets would be able to rack up enough reputation to actually build a house (or remake one) in a nicer neighborhood.
I've enjoyed my apartment in EQ2. It's close to everything and fun to fill with my stuff. It's the only housing into which I have put any effort.
I really think that LotRO's is the worst. The whole neighborhood is instanced and in the middle of nowhere. And I've heard that it is really hard to manipulate the furniture.
With so many themeparks making their dungeons instanced, and their pvp instanced (or in lakes) perhaps housing could once again populate the open areas of the game?
Now it seems like its mostly used for levelling up, and then abandoned.
The only reason non-instanced housing even exists is to give people a way to brag about how rich they are in a game world. That's it. For all the rapturous talk of player cities and player driven economies, at the end of the day, they're just bragging tools to show others that you can dump a lot of cash and resources into building a big, elaborate house in an open location.
Instanced housing saves in-game land and development resources and still gives players the ability to build and customize a dwelling for their character if they really want it. Of all the games I've played these past 12+ years, EQ2 really nailed it down as far as housing went.
Through 5 years of housing in UO, i always had one. My favorite was the large gouse with patio that contained my vendors that folks visited oftem just outside of brit. My guild had a tower that we defended from reds,that was some really fun times.. We had RP events, and crafting events, that even passer-bys came to.. Guild members would adventure around the area, and meet up with other guildies.
In DAoC, we had a "guild house" that we barely used, and i didnt even bother having my own, as i found it dull and pointless..
So your theory is false, at least when it concerns me and what i do with housing.
Through 5 years of housing in UO, i always had one.
And how long has it been since you played UO? If it's been a while and you don't have any houses in any current game you're playing, it's clearly not that important to you to have a house anyway. It might have been cool back in the day, but it's not something you go out of your way to play with now.
Through 5 years of housing in UO, i always had one.
And how long has it been since you played UO? If it's been a while and you don't have any houses in any current game you're playing, it's clearly not that important to you to have a house anyway. It might have been cool back in the day, but it's not something you go out of your way to play with now.
If there was a game out there that was decent, that had housing, I would play it.. If theres was an ok game out there with housing, i would play it over an ok game without housing. A little variety in my games is nice, as opposed to just going to collect some more tokens in an instanced Battleground...
With so many themeparks making their dungeons instanced, and their pvp instanced (or in lakes) perhaps housing could once again populate the open areas of the game?
Now it seems like its mostly used for levelling up, and then abandoned.
The only reason non-instanced housing even exists is to give people a way to brag about how rich they are in a game world. That's it. For all the rapturous talk of player cities and player driven economies, at the end of the day, they're just bragging tools to show others that you can dump a lot of cash and resources into building a big, elaborate house in an open location.
Instanced housing saves in-game land and development resources and still gives players the ability to build and customize a dwelling for their character if they really want it. Of all the games I've played these past 12+ years, EQ2 really nailed it down as far as housing went.
I would much rather have non instanced housing compared to instanced. Its more than just bragging, its having a place of your own that you have built up and furnished. Its about having neighbors and trading with the people who live around you and socializing.
The way darkfall handled player towns was very nice but I absolutly hated the housing in EQ2. It felt like a waste of time and was lonely.
I would much rather have non instanced housing compared to instanced.
I wouldn't. It's just not that important to me. I don't need to build a building in a game to show what I've done off to others. Renting an in-game apartment or house, like in EQ2, was fine. I got to create a little space for my character that I actually thought was useful, since I could sell from it and store things in it. But I don't need a house in order to enjoy a game.
If I want to spend my time in a game building and customizing a house and decorating it, I'll play The Sims. I don't need it in an MMO. For the one game I'm looking forward to -- SWTOR -- the ship will be nice, especially if it ties into my character's story somehow. But the ship isn't the reason I'm going to play the game. It's just a nice added bonus.
We want housing and we want sandbox style gameplay....
Funny that a lot of those people would be really pissed if a thief broke into their house and stole some loot. Making houses off limits kind of defeats the purpose of a sandbox.
I'd rather have a world where you had to be smart about your house... a huge castle needs to be guarded. However, you could sneak a tiny entrance to an underground lair that's easily defendable.
Perfectly ok. Noone forcing you to like housing, you just don't enjoy it and it is ok.
For many people good housing is not "fluff" like it is for you. Simple , people enjoy diffrent things is games.
I didn't originally say "fluff", I was repeating someone else who was defending housing as "fluff". I simply asked what it was about housing that really mattered because honestly, I don't see it. These games exist for fighting and progression, this isn't "World of Warcraft Sims". It seems to me about as silly to demand housing in an MMO as it does to demand it in, say, Halo.
Perfectly ok. Noone forcing you to like housing, you just don't enjoy it and it is ok.
For many people good housing is not "fluff" like it is for you. Simple , people enjoy diffrent things is games.
I didn't originally say "fluff", I was repeating someone else who was defending housing as "fluff". I simply asked what it was about housing that really mattered because honestly, I don't see it. These games exist for fighting and progression, this isn't "World of Warcraft Sims". It seems to me about as silly to demand housing in an MMO as it does to demand it in, say, Halo.
It's that the world is persistant so therefore... where is your hero sleeping? Some people like me think fo their hero as a wanderer. Others think of their hero as a member of a family or guild with roots in a place... thus a house. In Halo your character never really rests or sets down roots... you play through an adventure and then you're done. If you don't get this then you're being willfilly ignorant of the obvious.
As I said earlier housing doesn't make sense in a lot of game worlds.... we want free form housing and castles... but to me that ruins the game because if you want a house away from a city it needs to either be defended or be hidden.
Perfectly ok. Noone forcing you to like housing, you just don't enjoy it and it is ok.
For many people good housing is not "fluff" like it is for you. Simple , people enjoy diffrent things is games.
I didn't originally say "fluff", I was repeating someone else who was defending housing as "fluff". I simply asked what it was about housing that really mattered because honestly, I don't see it. These games exist for fighting and progression, this isn't "World of Warcraft Sims". It seems to me about as silly to demand housing in an MMO as it does to demand it in, say, Halo.
I called it fluff, and put it in quotes, because thats what a lot of folks who don't like it call it...
(edit) i like it, and suppose I'd call it "fluff" as well... another dimension to my gaming, which these days of constant instancing, and daily quests, is that such a bad thing?
These games definetly exist for fighting and progression, and they used to exist for community, or so i thought. Open world housing in UO added a lot to that. They can also add to PvP, crafting and other things when done properly..
Perfectly ok. Noone forcing you to like housing, you just don't enjoy it and it is ok.
For many people good housing is not "fluff" like it is for you. Simple , people enjoy diffrent things is games.
I didn't originally say "fluff", I was repeating someone else who was defending housing as "fluff". I simply asked what it was about housing that really mattered because honestly, I don't see it. These games exist for fighting and progression, this isn't "World of Warcraft Sims". It seems to me about as silly to demand housing in an MMO as it does to demand it in, say, Halo.
It's that the world is persistant so therefore... where is your hero sleeping? Some people like me think fo their hero as a wanderer. Others think of their hero as a member of a family or guild with roots in a place... thus a house. In Halo your character never really rests or sets down roots... you play through an adventure and then you're done. If you don't get this then you're being willfilly ignorant of the obvious.
As I said earlier housing doesn't make sense in a lot of game worlds.... we want free form housing and castles... but to me that ruins the game because if you want a house away from a city it needs to either be defended or be hidden.
Your hero isn't sleeping, when you log off, you vanish from the world. That's the way it is in every game and the way it has to be, otherwise you'd have bodies littered across the landscape. In most games, you never set down roots either, you move from one zone to the next as you level, you don't set up shop in a low-level area when you're very high level and you have to run for an hour to get back to the high-level content every day. It's absurd.
But then again, I'm being realistic here. Far too many people aren't.
If I must have instanced housing, I prefer it to at least be housing developments within instanced zones and not individual instances of the house itself. Camelot and DAoC housing weren't horrible, but I prefer open world housing like UO and AC1.
My best experience with housing was SWG. They could have made it better and allowed for furniture to be placed outdoors, but other than that it was pretty good.
Instanced housing sucks. It just seems pointless and too artificial.
Instanced housing is crap, open world housing is amazing, and I miss it too, its like the great white buffalo of the MMO genre, or the one that got away for those who dont get the refrence.
Perfectly ok. Noone forcing you to like housing, you just don't enjoy it and it is ok.
For many people good housing is not "fluff" like it is for you. Simple , people enjoy diffrent things is games.
I didn't originally say "fluff", I was repeating someone else who was defending housing as "fluff". I simply asked what it was about housing that really mattered because honestly, I don't see it. These games exist for fighting and progression, this isn't "World of Warcraft Sims". It seems to me about as silly to demand housing in an MMO as it does to demand it in, say, Halo.
Really only thing you need to understand , is that for many people "these games" does not exist only for fighting and progression.
Nothing except for that , you don't need to understand that , just accept that other people can have other views and opinion on certain things than you do.
Simple.
I also totally don't understand comparing MMO to Halo and to be honest I don't even want to understand that because I don't give a damn about it. I don't want to sound rude , If I am then sorry that is not my intent.
Enjoy what you want about mmorpg's and have fun with it, I just enjoy also diffrent aspects of mmorpg's than you.
If it's not apart of an open pvp environment it just became a place to put stuff, and for adults to have "chats"..
Anyway. I think player housing without some sort of tangible effect on the playspace adds nothing to the game. Having a title, list of achievements, and recognizable "end game" gear achieves any function player housing could; while also being actual moving parts within the machine.
I thought I liked it. I loved owning buildings and managing their looks in UO and Shadowbane. Losing them sucked, but you know, you learned your lessons.
In EQ2 and a variety of games sense.............. I can game quite happily without it.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Comments
Non-instanced player housing is overrated and pointless, IMO. All it does is make a game world artificially larger because developers have to waste large plots of land and resources that could be better spent on additional dungeons or some other gameplay mechanic. Instead, that same land gets wasted on housing plots that few people will ever build on or care about, and which will become an eyesore once those players leave the game.
EQ2 had a good system. It's the only game I ever bothered having a house in, because I could decorate it with things my character got and I could sell from it.
I don't see the need for non-instanced housing. Better to spend those same development resources on something more useful.
Non instanced player housing lends itself to player cities which is probably the most underrated feature in an mmorpg. Instanced housing is ok, but not as good as non instanced. The stuff that ppl complain about (eyesores, clutter, wasted space etc) are things that a developer can fix with checks and balances rather than just making it instanced.
Housing really only works in open pvp areas, and when storage is otherwise hard to come back. Hiding in my house or a friend's house from PK or two made for some great UO memories.
Like someone else said, Player Housing can make for some great exporing. Exploring the game world itself can be a bit limited, but I use to spend hours at a time wandering my shard checking out player houses and this was before the custom housing too. Before lock-downs when players would lock their doors I'd even do this as a ghost.
Unless there is a city planner class or some sort of zoned housing area for player cities, most player cities will end up being an eyesore, especially once those players leave the game. Player cities are also, by design, a waste of resources and land that make a game world artificially larger for no reason.
I can understand a completely player-driven game like A Tale in the Desert having non-instanced housing, but beyond that, it's pointless. I'd rather see the devs spend those same resources building new dungeons to explore or some other kind of player encounter.
With so many themeparks making their dungeons instanced, and their pvp instanced (or in lakes) perhaps housing could once again populate the open areas of the game?
Now it seems like its mostly used for levelling up, and then abandoned.
I loved DAoC housing. They kept adding housing zones so i think it is a much sought after feature. I really enjoyed it as it felt more like a world instead of a ride. The fact that I could have my own bank and merchant at my house was nice and to me housing helped build community.
I also think premade houses in a premade city should be rented out on a first come first serve basis. So for example if they had a non instanced apartment building in a major city would be a cool idea. You could have houses and condos in major cities that could hold most of the players on a server. If someone doesnt pay rent for the week, they get evicted and the space becomes available. No prepaying for places months in advance, it is only available for currently active players that way.
The only reason non-instanced housing even exists is to give people a way to brag about how rich they are in a game world. That's it. For all the rapturous talk of player cities and player driven economies, at the end of the day, they're just bragging tools to show others that you can dump a lot of cash and resources into building a big, elaborate house in an open location.
Instanced housing saves in-game land and development resources and still gives players the ability to build and customize a dwelling for their character if they really want it. Of all the games I've played these past 12+ years, EQ2 really nailed it down as far as housing went.
I have no experience with SWG. I've seen the non-instanced housing in Vanguard and Mortal Online though, and it kinda irks me to see 19-20th Century housing in a Medieval Fantasy World. In violent, smaller-scale societies, people didn't build out in the middle of nowhere. I hate the idea of going through all the trouble to buy and build a house in the middle of nowhere in a game. The locations of the housing areas in Vanguard are majorly off the beaten path. I would love to see the shanty sprawl in the shadow of a city. Maybe the uber, leets would be able to rack up enough reputation to actually build a house (or remake one) in a nicer neighborhood.
I've enjoyed my apartment in EQ2. It's close to everything and fun to fill with my stuff. It's the only housing into which I have put any effort.
I really think that LotRO's is the worst. The whole neighborhood is instanced and in the middle of nowhere. And I've heard that it is really hard to manipulate the furniture.
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
Through 5 years of housing in UO, i always had one. My favorite was the large gouse with patio that contained my vendors that folks visited oftem just outside of brit. My guild had a tower that we defended from reds,that was some really fun times.. We had RP events, and crafting events, that even passer-bys came to.. Guild members would adventure around the area, and meet up with other guildies.
In DAoC, we had a "guild house" that we barely used, and i didnt even bother having my own, as i found it dull and pointless..
So your theory is false, at least when it concerns me and what i do with housing.
And how long has it been since you played UO? If it's been a while and you don't have any houses in any current game you're playing, it's clearly not that important to you to have a house anyway. It might have been cool back in the day, but it's not something you go out of your way to play with now.
If there was a game out there that was decent, that had housing, I would play it.. If theres was an ok game out there with housing, i would play it over an ok game without housing. A little variety in my games is nice, as opposed to just going to collect some more tokens in an instanced Battleground...
Currently i'm not subscribed to any games.
I would much rather have non instanced housing compared to instanced. Its more than just bragging, its having a place of your own that you have built up and furnished. Its about having neighbors and trading with the people who live around you and socializing.
The way darkfall handled player towns was very nice but I absolutly hated the housing in EQ2. It felt like a waste of time and was lonely.
I wouldn't. It's just not that important to me. I don't need to build a building in a game to show what I've done off to others. Renting an in-game apartment or house, like in EQ2, was fine. I got to create a little space for my character that I actually thought was useful, since I could sell from it and store things in it. But I don't need a house in order to enjoy a game.
If I want to spend my time in a game building and customizing a house and decorating it, I'll play The Sims. I don't need it in an MMO. For the one game I'm looking forward to -- SWTOR -- the ship will be nice, especially if it ties into my character's story somehow. But the ship isn't the reason I'm going to play the game. It's just a nice added bonus.
We want housing and we want sandbox style gameplay....
Funny that a lot of those people would be really pissed if a thief broke into their house and stole some loot. Making houses off limits kind of defeats the purpose of a sandbox.
I'd rather have a world where you had to be smart about your house... a huge castle needs to be guarded. However, you could sneak a tiny entrance to an underground lair that's easily defendable.
That seems like a way to make housing.
I didn't originally say "fluff", I was repeating someone else who was defending housing as "fluff". I simply asked what it was about housing that really mattered because honestly, I don't see it. These games exist for fighting and progression, this isn't "World of Warcraft Sims". It seems to me about as silly to demand housing in an MMO as it does to demand it in, say, Halo.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
It's that the world is persistant so therefore... where is your hero sleeping? Some people like me think fo their hero as a wanderer. Others think of their hero as a member of a family or guild with roots in a place... thus a house. In Halo your character never really rests or sets down roots... you play through an adventure and then you're done. If you don't get this then you're being willfilly ignorant of the obvious.
As I said earlier housing doesn't make sense in a lot of game worlds.... we want free form housing and castles... but to me that ruins the game because if you want a house away from a city it needs to either be defended or be hidden.
I called it fluff, and put it in quotes, because thats what a lot of folks who don't like it call it...
(edit) i like it, and suppose I'd call it "fluff" as well... another dimension to my gaming, which these days of constant instancing, and daily quests, is that such a bad thing?
These games definetly exist for fighting and progression, and they used to exist for community, or so i thought. Open world housing in UO added a lot to that. They can also add to PvP, crafting and other things when done properly..
Your hero isn't sleeping, when you log off, you vanish from the world. That's the way it is in every game and the way it has to be, otherwise you'd have bodies littered across the landscape. In most games, you never set down roots either, you move from one zone to the next as you level, you don't set up shop in a low-level area when you're very high level and you have to run for an hour to get back to the high-level content every day. It's absurd.
But then again, I'm being realistic here. Far too many people aren't.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I love open world housing.
I can't stand instanced housing in mmo's.
If I must have instanced housing, I prefer it to at least be housing developments within instanced zones and not individual instances of the house itself. Camelot and DAoC housing weren't horrible, but I prefer open world housing like UO and AC1.
My best experience with housing was SWG. They could have made it better and allowed for furniture to be placed outdoors, but other than that it was pretty good.
Instanced housing sucks. It just seems pointless and too artificial.
Instanced housing is crap, open world housing is amazing, and I miss it too, its like the great white buffalo of the MMO genre, or the one that got away for those who dont get the refrence.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
+1
I miss the player run castle "malls" in UO .
Really only thing you need to understand , is that for many people "these games" does not exist only for fighting and progression.
Nothing except for that , you don't need to understand that , just accept that other people can have other views and opinion on certain things than you do.
Simple.
I also totally don't understand comparing MMO to Halo and to be honest I don't even want to understand that because I don't give a damn about it. I don't want to sound rude , If I am then sorry that is not my intent.
Enjoy what you want about mmorpg's and have fun with it, I just enjoy also diffrent aspects of mmorpg's than you.
I don't miss it.
If it's not apart of an open pvp environment it just became a place to put stuff, and for adults to have "chats"..
Anyway. I think player housing without some sort of tangible effect on the playspace adds nothing to the game. Having a title, list of achievements, and recognizable "end game" gear achieves any function player housing could; while also being actual moving parts within the machine.
I thought I liked it. I loved owning buildings and managing their looks in UO and Shadowbane. Losing them sucked, but you know, you learned your lessons.
In EQ2 and a variety of games sense.............. I can game quite happily without it.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.