Na swtor is doing great, I think its going to be a major hit and I say this with experience in every major mmo. The pve content is a solid backbone, the only worry is what we do at endgame other then raids and warzones(same as any other themepark)...they have solution that will be in the build after the next is all im going to say.
I say no based on fact. It is physiologically, and psychologically impossible to be addicted to video games. You can become compelled to play them and then lured in by the compulsion. But there is no drive to play that games that is triggered by addiction, which is caused by a chemically induced neorological dependency.
Swtor will be compelling and I will spend many hours playing it, but It will never require the same neorological dependency as something addiction forming like smoking.
Playing video games can cause the release of chemicals like seratonins which make you feel good as well as endorphins which attach to the same neurons as heroin and morphine. Yes video games can be both physiologically and psychologically addicting. Mmo's moreso because they are literally designed to keep you playing just to "keep up with the Joneses" ..so-to-speak.
No..for any who might ask...i'm not posting any links. You either agree or not.
You know, i've had a theory for a while coming to largely the same conclusion as you did there. Games does not cause addiction in and of itself, but by the chemicals released by the notion of "success", "Social integration" and "love" and other emotional responses, in a virtual but to our still relative primitve brains, very real, universe.
you bring up GW2, now this is where my logical fails me, you say it is full of kill quests and that once broken down it (at the quests main core) is the same. However, in GW2 all quests (aside from personal story) are group quests (at the core) and those affect the world around them. such as what merchants sell or the weather of the zone you are in.
without phasing you wont see this in TOR,
im not saying one is better then the other at all, I plan to play both games as i am a Starwars fan and a Guild Wars fan (both have rich lore), But i also do my reaserch and think with my mind.
In GW2 you (And the group that you are in) has to complete an objective and something tells me 80% of them will be kill X amount of dragon whelps then Collect X amount of dragon droppings then kill the 50ft boss.
Most gameplay of GW2 DE have shown this in one form or another.
I say no based on fact. It is physiologically, and psychologically impossible to be addicted to video games. You can become compelled to play them and then lured in by the compulsion. But there is no drive to play that games that is triggered by addiction, which is caused by a chemically induced neorological dependency.
Swtor will be compelling and I will spend many hours playing it, but It will never require the same neorological dependency as something addiction forming like smoking.
Playing video games can cause the release of chemicals like seratonins which make you feel good as well as endorphins which attach to the same neurons as heroin and morphine. Yes video games can be both physiologically and psychologically addicting. Mmo's moreso because they are literally designed to keep you playing just to "keep up with the Joneses" ..so-to-speak.
No..for any who might ask...i'm not posting any links. You either choose to agree or not.
Already covered this in my second post. I said it does create the elevation of chemical release during play. But there is no chemical activity after the play session. With nicotine, you get an elevation during the smoking session, and then you get small chemical releases that emulate the ones you got during the smoking session, that draws at you and creates an addictive craving.
Games don't have a delayed release like that. Therefore they cannot be classified as addictive. However, can create highly compulsive players.
Nicotine = Chem release during session::: Chem release after session to bring you back:::: Addiction
Games = Chem release during session:::: No chem release after session:::: Compulsion
They are similar. But with nicotine addiction, there are unnatural influences while you are not smoking that compells you to come back. While video games are naturally compelling due to an interactive nature.
From what I've seen, this won't revolutionise shit. It's a small evolution at best. Again, it's a traditional MMO with emphasis on story and dialogue. If people are tierd of WoW, Rift and the like, this won't change anything.
Besides, releasing during this holiday is suicide. I bet most people are more hyped for Skyrim.
100% completey agree with that. Nothing new here.
QFT
I think VO and Story is interesting could care less about GW2's Golified PQs.
A gear-grind end game is not my idea of addictive, quite the contrary. The story should be good, but once you've done that, game over. It shouldn't be much more addictive than a single player game you can play through on 2 sides. Should be a good game, but addictive? Let alone very very addictive? You're kidding right?
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
To all those saying story doesn't change anything, I have to ask, did AOC tortage change anything in MMO's for you? It most certainly did for me. It gave me a real reason to do those same old MMO quests and made them far more enjoyable. JUst like in single player land, the incentive became moving the story forward, rather than my only concern being changing the number beside my name.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The game does not offer anything different or new in that area... it is extremely traditional in it's quest progression once past the small story areas.
You will, for the vast majority of time, be doing exactly the same in this game as you have been in every other game.
To explain it as simple as possible, its the difference between a random kill X quest, and a decision that could change or shape what you do next.
No, it really isnt, not in the way you are suggesting. You talk like every choice you have in SWtoR has a profound impact on your activity and it dosen't.
Basically you just said, "its extremely traditional except for the areas where it isn't
Well, thanks for massive edit, but you have over simplified what I am saying.
I am really saying 'the vast bulk of the game is extremely traditional, and the small parts that arnt are just a flash way of delivering the same old content and are not nearly as revolutionary or game changing as a lot of people make out'.
It is as always, unless you're saying something controversial and/or repulsive you'll be ignored.
Good job i'm drunk and do not care about being noticed, otherwise i might have lashed out at someone as i usually do sober, cheerio good people of MMORPG.com.
I frankly have no idea how addictive the game will be. Stuff like that is always hard to say, some games are fun for a long time while others are just fun for a few weeks (like WAR).
The endgame is really the hardest part of a MMO and keeping the players hooked for years isn't easy. We will just have to wait and see, it will take a few months after release before we can be sure.
Pre orders is not a good way to measure how addictive a game is long term and all anyone of us can do is guess.
And after playing it I think its quite a bit more of a step forward than people want to give them credit for. I honestly think people vastly misunderstand what these types of quests are. They are not just voice overs.
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Originally posted by maskedweasel And after playing it I think its quite a bit more of a step forward than people want to give them credit for. I honestly think people vastly misunderstand what these types of quests are. They are not just voice overs.
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
Choice that changes your quests is the difference IMO. And i am in the same boat about not being able to explain. If it was like tortage with just VO but no choice, I would agree. But TOR will be very different. No way to prove it until everyone can play. But it will be worth it and create addiction for me at least.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
And after playing it I think its quite a bit more of a step forward than people want to give them credit for. I honestly think people vastly misunderstand what these types of quests are. They are not just voice overs.
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
Choice that changes your quests is the difference IMO. And i am in the same boat about not being able to explain. If it was like tortage with just VO but no choice, I would agree. But TOR will be very different. No way to prove it until everyone can play. But it will be worth it and create addiction for me at least.
I higly doubt it given the nature of previous BioWare games where the "choice" is at the end but an illusion to the bigger picture.
I think it's fair enough to say that it will be a good game. Hopefully it will be a good addition to the SW franchise. But to say it will be highly addicting for the masses, or conversely to say that it will suck is foolish when the game is no where near release. (which is why I think the OP is invalid)
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
It's not a completely new concept, I haven't seen anyone say it is. However it is a new implementation of it. It's also being given a lot more emphasis in this game than in those from the past. EQ2 had VO, FF had them (i think), CO has them, WOW has them and of course AOC has them. Only one of these games did something similar to what Bioware is doing, that's AOC, and it was a very lite version. Comparing these older MMO's to what Bioware, Anet and FC (TSW) are doing is like saying "Yakuza and Folklore have VO too". The presense of something is in no shape or form a focus on something.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's not a completely new concept, I haven't seen anyone say it is.
Okay I tire of this selective bullshit. If you want to ignore the bleating of blind fans, and backtrack and say that "no, no one said it was revolutionary or new", feel free to do so.
However it is a new implementation of it.
?
Just proved my point. As I stated earlier, the whole industry is moving to the VA/cutscene/SRPG in MMOs; I don't see how SWTOR is special in this regard. (I feel the GW2 take on it is superior but that's because I have little love for ME type RPGs)
It's also being given a lot more emphasis in this game than in those from the past.
I can't dispuite this as it is true. It's never been done on this scale.
EQ2 had VO, FF had them (i think), CO has them, WOW has them and of course AOC has them. Only one of these games did something similar to what Bioware is doing, that's AOC, and it was a very lite version. Comparing these older MMO's to what Bioware, Anet and FC (TSW) are doing is like saying "Yakuza and Folklore have VO too". The presense of something is in no shape or form a focus on something.
Okay, you're debating a point here that only you have imagined up.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Originally posted by maskedweasel And after playing it I think its quite a bit more of a step forward than people want to give them credit for. I honestly think people vastly misunderstand what these types of quests are. They are not just voice overs.
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
Choice that changes your quests is the difference IMO. And i am in the same boat about not being able to explain. If it was like tortage with just VO but no choice, I would agree. But TOR will be very different. No way to prove it until everyone can play. But it will be worth it and create addiction for me at least.
I higly doubt it given the nature of previous BioWare games where the "choice" is at the end but an illusion to the bigger picture.
I think it's fair enough to say that it will be a good game. Hopefully it will be a good addition to the SW franchise. But to say it will be highly addicting for the masses, or conversely to say that it will suck is foolish when the game is no where near release. (which is why I think the OP is invalid)
There was an article right here on MMORPG.com that talked about the BH,s story. It said after the completion of chapter one. Two BH,s could end up on different planets to continue their story based on their choices in chapter one. That sounds like a big difference to me. But again, it will come down to experiencing the game and making your own conclusions.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
It's not a completely new concept, I haven't seen anyone say it is.
Okay I tire of this selective bullshit. If you want to ignore the bleating of blind fans, and backtrack and say that "no, no one said it was revolutionary or new", feel free to do so.
However it is a new implementation of it.
?
Just proved my point. As I stated earlier, the whole industry is moving to the VA/cutscene/SRPG in MMOs; I don't see how SWTOR is special in this regard. (I feel the GW2 take on it is superior but that's because I have little love for ME type RPGs)
It's also being given a lot more emphasis in this game than in those from the past.
I can't dispuite this as it is true. It's never been done on this scale.
EQ2 had VO, FF had them (i think), CO has them, WOW has them and of course AOC has them. Only one of these games did something similar to what Bioware is doing, that's AOC, and it was a very lite version. Comparing these older MMO's to what Bioware, Anet and FC (TSW) are doing is like saying "Yakuza and Folklore have VO too". The presense of something is in no shape or form a focus on something.
Okay, you're debating a point here that only you have imagined up.
To the red, no the bulk there you didn't seem to understand, was only to emphasize the two points (in red) above, as in yes other games have had VO, no they're implementations are not the same as Biowares. (in green) i didn't give Bioware any more credit than the others doing the same thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's not a completely new concept, I haven't seen anyone say it is.
Okay I tire of this selective bullshit. If you want to ignore the bleating of blind fans, and backtrack and say that "no, no one said it was revolutionary or new", feel free to do so.
However it is a new implementation of it.
?
Just proved my point. As I stated earlier, the whole industry is moving to the VA/cutscene/SRPG in MMOs; I don't see how SWTOR is special in this regard. (I feel the GW2 take on it is superior but that's because I have little love for ME type RPGs)
It's also being given a lot more emphasis in this game than in those from the past.
I can't dispuite this as it is true. It's never been done on this scale.
EQ2 had VO, FF had them (i think), CO has them, WOW has them and of course AOC has them. Only one of these games did something similar to what Bioware is doing, that's AOC, and it was a very lite version. Comparing these older MMO's to what Bioware, Anet and FC (TSW) are doing is like saying "Yakuza and Folklore have VO too". The presense of something is in no shape or form a focus on something.
Okay, you're debating a point here that only you have imagined up.
To the red, no the bulk there you didn't seem to understand, was only to emphasize the two points (in red) above, as in yes other games have had VO, no they're implementations are not the same as Biowares. (in green) i didn't give Bioware any more credit than the others doing the same thing.
Thanks for taking the time to question my comprehension but I understand you fairly well.
And I see you agree with me on the lack of revolution SWTOR features given the nature of its contemporaries.
Cheers!
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
To the red, no the bulk there you didn't seem to understand, was only to emphasize the two points (in red) above, as in yes other games have had VO, no they're implementations are not the same as Biowares. (in green) i didn't give Bioware any more credit than the others doing the same thing.
Thanks for taking the time to question my comprehension but I understand you fairly well.
And I see you agree with me on the lack of revolution SWTOR features given the nature of its contemporaries.
First- No I didn't question your comprehension, you said I was arguing an imaginary point (that wasn't brought up) when what I was doing was emphasizing the point that I made, in reply to the point that you made. I just figured my point was lost in execution which says more about my writing than your reading comprehension.
Second- I see what Bioware, Anet and FC are doing more or less as the logical direction themepark games would take. They were already close enough to single player RPGS, might as well go that extra mile.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I highly doubt that what side fo the force you are on determines the "type" of quests as this will cause bioware to make really almost 2 games per class, if you are a saint or an ass you will still need to kill ten droids or collect 5 power supplies or travel and talk to this one dude.
Actually, examples have been given by devs and players who played it of situations where different choices can lead to very different outcomes and follow up quests, sometimes even lead you to different planets. Of course, that won't always happen 100% with all quests and all decisions, sometimes changes and differences will be smaller from one decision point option to the next. But enough examples have been given to conclude that significant differences in decision paths will be ingame.
Besides, GW2 will have something like 2-3 very different stages per quest/event, so if that's possible then I don't see why 2 different games per class or significant path differences between walking a fully Lightside or fully Darkside path within a class wouldn't be possible for SWTOR.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by twodayslate Yes it will, but not for the reason originally stated. These gear treadmill games are designed from the ground up to keep people crawling back like self-aware meth addicts so they can keep their characters relevant. The scary part is that Bioware is actually smart enough to refine Blizzard's near-perfect hamster wheel into something more.. medical-grade.
Yeah they are making it less grindy and adding more diverse and fun content. Those BASTARDS! lol
You gotta lighten up a little, man. You sound really jaded. Gear progression MMOs are not out to get you.
Comments
Na swtor is doing great, I think its going to be a major hit and I say this with experience in every major mmo. The pve content is a solid backbone, the only worry is what we do at endgame other then raids and warzones(same as any other themepark)...they have solution that will be in the build after the next is all im going to say.
You know, i've had a theory for a while coming to largely the same conclusion as you did there. Games does not cause addiction in and of itself, but by the chemicals released by the notion of "success", "Social integration" and "love" and other emotional responses, in a virtual but to our still relative primitve brains, very real, universe.
In GW2 you (And the group that you are in) has to complete an objective and something tells me 80% of them will be kill X amount of dragon whelps then Collect X amount of dragon droppings then kill the 50ft boss.
Most gameplay of GW2 DE have shown this in one form or another.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
fair enough.
Agreed on everything. These numbers do not include Origin or any other electronic distribution. These numbers are retail only.
A gear-grind end game is not my idea of addictive, quite the contrary. The story should be good, but once you've done that, game over. It shouldn't be much more addictive than a single player game you can play through on 2 sides. Should be a good game, but addictive? Let alone very very addictive? You're kidding right?
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
It's going to be adictive because it's ... popular? Bzzzzzzzt, need a better reason than that.
To all those saying story doesn't change anything, I have to ask, did AOC tortage change anything in MMO's for you? It most certainly did for me. It gave me a real reason to do those same old MMO quests and made them far more enjoyable. JUst like in single player land, the incentive became moving the story forward, rather than my only concern being changing the number beside my name.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well, thanks for massive edit, but you have over simplified what I am saying.
I am really saying 'the vast bulk of the game is extremely traditional, and the small parts that arnt are just a flash way of delivering the same old content and are not nearly as revolutionary or game changing as a lot of people make out'.
It is as always, unless you're saying something controversial and/or repulsive you'll be ignored.
Good job i'm drunk and do not care about being noticed, otherwise i might have lashed out at someone as i usually do sober, cheerio good people of MMORPG.com.
I frankly have no idea how addictive the game will be. Stuff like that is always hard to say, some games are fun for a long time while others are just fun for a few weeks (like WAR).
The endgame is really the hardest part of a MMO and keeping the players hooked for years isn't easy. We will just have to wait and see, it will take a few months after release before we can be sure.
Pre orders is not a good way to measure how addictive a game is long term and all anyone of us can do is guess.
You new to video games?
"Hype" has always existed.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
Choice that changes your quests is the difference IMO. And i am in the same boat about not being able to explain. If it was like tortage with just VO but no choice, I would agree. But TOR will be very different. No way to prove it until everyone can play. But it will be worth it and create addiction for me at least.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I higly doubt it given the nature of previous BioWare games where the "choice" is at the end but an illusion to the bigger picture.
I think it's fair enough to say that it will be a good game. Hopefully it will be a good addition to the SW franchise. But to say it will be highly addicting for the masses, or conversely to say that it will suck is foolish when the game is no where near release. (which is why I think the OP is invalid)
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
It's not a completely new concept, I haven't seen anyone say it is. However it is a new implementation of it. It's also being given a lot more emphasis in this game than in those from the past. EQ2 had VO, FF had them (i think), CO has them, WOW has them and of course AOC has them. Only one of these games did something similar to what Bioware is doing, that's AOC, and it was a very lite version. Comparing these older MMO's to what Bioware, Anet and FC (TSW) are doing is like saying "Yakuza and Folklore have VO too". The presense of something is in no shape or form a focus on something.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
You do realise that voice acting and cutscenes are not a new concept in MMOs right?
And that all of SWTOR's contemporaries are heading this route? So it's an industry thing, and not as if BioWare is the cause of this massive, awesome change.
~
As to all the "OMG immersion, finally" points - good for you if you like that type of immersion. Personally, I like to go beyond superficial immersion. I don't need to see something physically depicted before me to feel my character immersed in the world, but that's just me.
Choice that changes your quests is the difference IMO. And i am in the same boat about not being able to explain. If it was like tortage with just VO but no choice, I would agree. But TOR will be very different. No way to prove it until everyone can play. But it will be worth it and create addiction for me at least.
I higly doubt it given the nature of previous BioWare games where the "choice" is at the end but an illusion to the bigger picture.
I think it's fair enough to say that it will be a good game. Hopefully it will be a good addition to the SW franchise. But to say it will be highly addicting for the masses, or conversely to say that it will suck is foolish when the game is no where near release. (which is why I think the OP is invalid)
There was an article right here on MMORPG.com that talked about the BH,s story. It said after the completion of chapter one. Two BH,s could end up on different planets to continue their story based on their choices in chapter one. That sounds like a big difference to me. But again, it will come down to experiencing the game and making your own conclusions.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
What is going to make this addictive? You failed to do anything except display your unrealistic hype about the game.
To the red, no the bulk there you didn't seem to understand, was only to emphasize the two points (in red) above, as in yes other games have had VO, no they're implementations are not the same as Biowares. (in green) i didn't give Bioware any more credit than the others doing the same thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Thanks for taking the time to question my comprehension but I understand you fairly well.
And I see you agree with me on the lack of revolution SWTOR features given the nature of its contemporaries.
Cheers!
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Everyone please remember there is an NDA in effect for SWTOR. You can mention you are in beta, but absolutely nothing else.
First- No I didn't question your comprehension, you said I was arguing an imaginary point (that wasn't brought up) when what I was doing was emphasizing the point that I made, in reply to the point that you made. I just figured my point was lost in execution which says more about my writing than your reading comprehension.
Second- I see what Bioware, Anet and FC are doing more or less as the logical direction themepark games would take. They were already close enough to single player RPGS, might as well go that extra mile.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually, examples have been given by devs and players who played it of situations where different choices can lead to very different outcomes and follow up quests, sometimes even lead you to different planets. Of course, that won't always happen 100% with all quests and all decisions, sometimes changes and differences will be smaller from one decision point option to the next. But enough examples have been given to conclude that significant differences in decision paths will be ingame.
Besides, GW2 will have something like 2-3 very different stages per quest/event, so if that's possible then I don't see why 2 different games per class or significant path differences between walking a fully Lightside or fully Darkside path within a class wouldn't be possible for SWTOR.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah they are making it less grindy and adding more diverse and fun content. Those BASTARDS! lol
You gotta lighten up a little, man. You sound really jaded. Gear progression MMOs are not out to get you.