"In terms of 'Is it a result in a drop in subs' – absolutely not," he said.
That's right up there with 'it's only a cold sore' and 'she doesn't mean anything to me baby -- you're the one I looooove!'. If they were able to retain subs and get all that monthly revenue, they'd be doing just that.
no its not a drop in subs,the problem is they never had enough.
now look who was dumb enough to believe in the game and bought a lifetime subscription
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
think ill rather have a lifetime on CO or something but meh...its also typical SOE to give the current subscribers absolutly nothing because they were in before it whent F2P >_<
Have fun buying things in the Cash Shop along with all of us F2P peeps. You guys should get Station Cash at the very least, or DCUO Cash or something like that for the store...not just your promised monthly updates...that was a given imo.
Im not even disagreeing with you but, first of all they stated they plan on adding new content every month which is not entirely the same thing, not that it matters, especially now
That and what is new content. New content is litterly as simple as adding 1 or 2 new items or a new achievement or a new look, no matter how corny. While I fully agree its would be a HORIBLE content update it IS a content update. Infact, its added content.
If you really want to get technical fixing or doing something slightly ..more extensice replacing a voice over with a new/better one is an update as well.
Im glad they didnt take the add 1 new achievement type of new content approach or as some companies do release the game and add the content that should have been there in the first place at a later stage, although the last part is agrueble.
I am not surprised as it really is a last ditch effort to keep the game viable. It had so much potential and I am still sad at what happened with it. I’m not sure F2P can save the game from the scrap heap long term unless they have been at work on killing buggy code and adding content but I doubt they can ever fix the underlying design issues. It can still be a fun weekend diversion for a DC fan wanting a single player or co-op like comic book adventure though.
Did they ever apply a patch for some of the more problematic exploits like the grenade power (ie… a single attack you could glitch into a rapid multi-throw?)
Same will happen to Secret World, TOR and the MMOs with subs that will be released in the near future. Just wait one year after release and you will see.
"In terms of 'Is it a result in a drop in subs' – absolutely not," he said.
That's right up there with 'it's only a cold sore' and 'she doesn't mean anything to me baby -- you're the one I looooove!'. If they were able to retain subs and get all that monthly revenue, they'd be doing just that.
That was a perfectly honest statement. F2P has nothing to do with a "drop in subs", it is due to the lack of ever having subs to begin with.
Same will happen to Secret World, TOR and the MMOs with subs that will be released in the near future. Just wait one year after release and you will see.
Hmm, I doubt ToR will go F2P, but in general yes most games will end up F2P in the near future. I just wish some would go the Advertisement supported route instead of pay2win.
One season doesn't make Aaron better...Aaron rocks, but he is what Steve Young was to Joe Montana...Brett is a GOD compared to EVERY other player and the Colts should have picked up Brett for this year tbh. Aaron may become another Brett Favre, but Arron sure as hell doesn't 'pwn' Brett.
(I'm having fun with you -> both are amazing)
And...to stay on topic...I'm actually anxious to try PvP here.
Oddly enough..I was worried for this game when I saw the popular trailer. It was pretty bad ass until I saw Superman. He looked like a demon-possessed mongol. If they can't get him right then what hope is there for the game. Sounds silly....but it's just what I thought at the time. Now I did play beta..and it was pretty fun imo but levelling was really quick. It was for this reason that I was cautious and waited. Then I start hearing how dead it was ...and my friend on PS network said even it was dead (tho busier than PC). It is sad. I will give F2P a go since I enjoy it better than CO. I'll see how they compare now.
John Smedley says, "This is the right business model. If I can be honest, the game ended up costing a lot more than we thought it would, and this was our preferred business model from day one."
Well, why didn't you make the decision to launch with this business model?
I could answer that: So they could make the money on the client and box sales until it was clear that the sub model wasn't going to bring in enough sustained revenue. Switching to the item shop model gives SOE two more avenues of revenue - 1) is the "premium" subscription rate that is the gatekeeping mechanics that keeps the F2P leeches in their place and the item shop that always seem to be apparent in the games mechanics. I feel bad for the people coming off the beta and paying the 50-60 bucks only to find out that little johnny will be downloading the client for free in a few months.
"It cost a little more than we expected" he also said. Do your research, know your industry and plan accordingly. Pathetic business decisions.
Another reason is that when SOE was taking out loans, asking investors to buy into this game and acquiring the DC IP, its easier to show a forward earnings curve with the sub model. That is something I learned when the Big Freaks interviewed Jack Emmert from Cryptic Studios. Another bunch.
Now, that the game has probably paid off its loans etc, they can lift the lid by jumping on the F2P bandwagon. The F2P switch is quickly becoming the crutch of the MMO industry. I would respect a developer more if they had the cahones to release it as a F2P and make a game well enough to sustain itself without having to resort to plan B...or C... or D.
SOE, when are you going to realize that you don't have what it takes to hold a candle to Blizzard. You had it back in the day, but you lost it and since then, always been a second rate house with second rate games (excepts for EQ).
Same will happen to Secret World, TOR and the MMOs with subs that will be released in the near future. Just wait one year after release and you will see.
I've been saying this for a couple of years now. If you looked close enough, you could see then where the direction of the market was headed.
However, I'm of the mind now that the best case scenario for launch of a new game, particularly for a game with a decent IP, is to take us for the suckers we are and sell the game first as a P2P; make money off the box sales and initial long-term memberships including lifetime subs while hype for the game is as its peak, then convert to a F2P a few months down the road. It's a rather cruel way to treat your customers, by screwing them over asking for membership fees knowing you're going free to play in a few months, but it seems to me it would definitely increase up-front capital.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that there are at least a few companies contemplating doing exactly that. Assuming, it hasn't been intentionally done already!
My text is green because my posts are created with Willpower!
John Smedley says, "This is the right business model. If I can be honest, the game ended up costing a lot more than we thought it would, and this was our preferred business model from day one."
Well, why didn't you make the decision to launch with this business model?
I could answer that: So they could make the money on the client and box sales until it was clear that the sub model wasn't going to bring in enough sustained revenue. Switching to the item shop model gives SOE two more avenues of revenue - 1) is the "premium" subscription rate that is the gatekeeping mechanics that keeps the F2P leeches in their place and the item shop that always seem to be apparent in the games mechanics. I feel bad for the people coming off the beta and paying the 50-60 bucks only to find out that little johnny will be downloading the client for free in a few months.
"It cost a little more than we expected" he also said. Do your research, know your industry and plan accordingly. Pathetic business decisions.
Another reason is that when SOE was taking out loans, asking investors to buy into this game and acquiring the DC IP, its easier to show a forward earnings curve with the sub model. That is something I learned when the Big Freaks interviewed Jack Emmert from Cryptic Studios. Another bunch.
Now, that the game has probably paid off its loans etc, they can lift the lid by jumping on the F2P bandwagon. The F2P switch is quickly becoming the crutch of the MMO industry. I would respect a developer more if they had the cahones to release it as a F2P and make a game well enough to sustain itself without having to resort to plan B...or C... or D.
SOE, when are you going to realize that you don't have what it takes to hold a candle to Blizzard. You had it back in the day, but you lost it and since then, always been a second rate house with second rate games (excepts for EQ).
Enough.
/rant off
As you can see by my post above, I was thinking the same thing before reading your post, lol.
My text is green because my posts are created with Willpower!
Why are F2P players considered leeches by some. The game is F2p..so if you choose to play it for free that is hardly leeching. If somehow you could play P2Ps for free unbeknownst to the company...then that would be leeching...it would also be stealing. I like some of the F2P games and play them up to the point where the limitations catch up to me. Then I may sub for a bit like I did with AoC or pay outright to pretty much open it up for me like I did with LOTRO and DDO...or go log in to RIFT or WOW(rarely).
Other f2p games I'll likely play or try...Fallen Earth...STO. It's a great option to try a game and I see nothing wrong with it. If there are people that never pay a penny it still serves a purpose to fill the world with players.
I have 2 words for you...F U! One season doesn't make Aaron better...Aaron rocks, but he is what Steve Young was to Joe Montana...Brett is a GOD compared to EVERY other player and the Colts should have picked up Brett for this year tbh. Aaron may become another Brett Favre, but Arron sure as hell doesn't 'pwn' Brett. (I'm having fun with you -> both are amazing)
And...to stay on topic...I'm actually anxious to try PvP here.
Nah, Favre has no integrity.
I lost respect for him when he laid down for Micheal Strahan. Rogers is better in every way and much smarter as far as reading defenses while Favre used to just wing it up for laughs. If Favre didn't have Sharpe, Jenkins, Driver, Levens and a host of stars catching his mistakes it might have been a different story. (having Reggie White and Woodson didn't hurt either^^)
Rogers is a true quarterback in every sense of the word and much better overall. Favre is just more fun to watch as an athlete, not a quarterback while Rogers is more like Montana.. a true artist at the position.
Favre was good with improv and he was an ironman tough guy which I respect, but Rogers is just better.
You should like the PvP. If you do it you unlock the Legends mode where you can play many heroes and villians which all have unique moves. Even if you don't get good gear for your main toon, the Legends mode equalizes things as far as gear so it's pretty fun.
Just some info: Free accounts (free and premium: $5 any spend) will be limited to $1500 and $2000 in-game cash respectively. Can someone please let SOE know that if their F2P model sucks the game will be resting next to Matrix online on the bottom of the ocean?
SOE even suck at giving away stuff for free. They have to get this right. Free players are going to be leveling in a day. if tey cant even afford to keep their armour repaired they will look elsewhere.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
One season doesn't make Aaron better...Aaron rocks, but he is what Steve Young was to Joe Montana...Brett is a GOD compared to EVERY other player and the Colts should have picked up Brett for this year tbh. Aaron may become another Brett Favre, but Arron sure as hell doesn't 'pwn' Brett.
(I'm having fun with you -> both are amazing)
And...to stay on topic...I'm actually anxious to try PvP here.
Nah, Favre has no integrity.
I lost respect for him when he laid down for Micheal Strahan. Rogers is better in every way and much smarter as far as reading defenses while Favre used to just wing it up for laughs. If Favre didn't have Sharpe, Jenkins, Driver, Levens and a host of stars catching his mistakes it might have been a different story. (having Reggie White and Woodson didn't hurt either^^)
Rogers is a true quarterback in every sense of the word and much better overall. Favre is just more fun to watch as an athlete, not a quarterback while Rogers is more like Montana.. a true artist at the position.
Favre was good with improv and he was an ironman tough guy which I respect, but Rogers is just better.
You should like the PvP. If you do it you unlock the Legends mode where you can play many heroes and villians which all have unique moves. Even if you don't get good gear for your main toon, the Legends mode equalizes things as far as gear so it's pretty fun.
I know this is not the thread, but you do realize that statistically Steve Young, was better than Montana. Montana is so overrated IMO. He had so many pro bowlers and hofs around in him it was a joke, not to mention the greatest receiver of all-time in the prime of his career making Joe look even better. I'd take Young over Montana any day.
Also, Favre is another who's overrated. The guy was a turnover machine and is not even in my top 10 (maybe even top 15) quarterbacks of all time. I'd take Young, Aikman, Marino, Elway, Brady or Manning over Favre without giving it a second thought. And no, I'm not joking. Other than his first year with Minnesota, the guy was always killing his teams with INTs. The only thing Favre was the best at was being the biggest narcissist the NFL's ever seen.
My text is green because my posts are created with Willpower!
I think Smedley knew that BW was going to be announcing TOR was going to be launching today and tried to "pre-announce" this so that it didn't get drummed over by the elephant that is The Old Republic.
I have been saying this game was going to go F2P since launch, and I also remember on the boards Radar saying how F2P was not an option - how it wasn't even being considered - and here we have Smedley talking about how it was the preferred method before they even launched.
Just more of the doubletalk bs that is SOE. Rot in hell you crappy developer.
and now i'm glad i didn't even bother keeping my pre-order in.
Playing Nothing waiting for The secret world Played WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
I'm all for this game going F2P. More players will breathe a bit more life into it.
It's a good move for this game to make. I'm hoping they will release a lot more content to go with it too. The Latern DLC was good, but arrived way too late. Should have been deployed a lot quicker then that.
Other f2p games I'll likely play or try...Fallen Earth...STO. It's a great option to try a game and I see nothing wrong with it. If there are people that never pay a penny it still serves a purpose to fill the world with players.
I was in the FE closed beta as well. Clunky combat, huge empty zones and sub par graphics are what plauged that game. It had some promise, great customer service and GM's. The community, what there was of it past launch was a dedicated more mature crowd. I went back for a month or two later on, but couldn't get into it. It bored me to tears.
I had played STO on a buddy pass, again clunky ground combat and boring space combat and said to myself, "Oh, no, no way!" Never looked at it again.
If DCUO goes F2P on the PS3, I'll download it and give it a go.
Originally posted by Halo-Bump I'm all for this game going F2P. More players will breathe a bit more life into it. It's a good move for this game to make. I'm hoping they will release a lot more content to go with it too. The Latern DLC was good, but arrived way too late. Should have been deployed a lot quicker then that.
My feelings exactly.
Unlike most other mmos, this game seems to lend itself exceptionally well to what a typical FTP market would be these days.
A ton of soloable content, lots of replay value (Villian/Heroe/unique storylines), costumes, small sized raids and dungeons (I can't stand huge raids anymore), duo content, and of course, PvP in various styles for a huge potential FTP market (PS3 players).
Around Xmas when they probably do another marketing campaign for television (they'd be dumb not to advertise FTP on T.V. for this now) they should get plenty of PS3 players who won't be able to play other mmos on their consoles, or players who just like the quick superheroe style of play.
I'm already envisioning a lot of teens who don't have gobs of money but will end up spending over $20/month anyways just unlocking content with parent's permission. Market wise, that's a pretty good thing to have as that will ensure the game gets the capital it needs to keep content pushed out.
A new player starting in DCUO right now has tons of things to do vs someone who started at launch and that's the key thing for the FTPers coming in which will make that game grow.
Comments
no its not a drop in subs,the problem is they never had enough.
Im not even disagreeing with you but, first of all they stated they plan on adding new content every month which is not entirely the same thing, not that it matters, especially now
That and what is new content. New content is litterly as simple as adding 1 or 2 new items or a new achievement or a new look, no matter how corny. While I fully agree its would be a HORIBLE content update it IS a content update. Infact, its added content.
If you really want to get technical fixing or doing something slightly ..more extensice replacing a voice over with a new/better one is an update as well.
Im glad they didnt take the add 1 new achievement type of new content approach or as some companies do release the game and add the content that should have been there in the first place at a later stage, although the last part is agrueble.
I am not surprised as it really is a last ditch effort to keep the game viable. It had so much potential and I am still sad at what happened with it. I’m not sure F2P can save the game from the scrap heap long term unless they have been at work on killing buggy code and adding content but I doubt they can ever fix the underlying design issues. It can still be a fun weekend diversion for a DC fan wanting a single player or co-op like comic book adventure though.
Did they ever apply a patch for some of the more problematic exploits like the grenade power (ie… a single attack you could glitch into a rapid multi-throw?)
Same will happen to Secret World, TOR and the MMOs with subs that will be released in the near future. Just wait one year after release and you will see.
That was a perfectly honest statement. F2P has nothing to do with a "drop in subs", it is due to the lack of ever having subs to begin with.
Hmm, I doubt ToR will go F2P, but in general yes most games will end up F2P in the near future. I just wish some would go the Advertisement supported route instead of pay2win.
Surprised this wasn't linked yet.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/09/19/massively-exclusive-soes-john-smedley-reveals-f2p-model-for-dc/
Yes! Now my Lifetime sub is finally paying off! I was wondering when they'd just bite the bullet and do this already. Best news I heard all day.
Okay, all you guys who don't like to pay.. download the free client next month and come PvP. I need a few more PvP points for my alts.
And remember... you don't have to spend anything in the cash shop.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I have 2 words for you...F U!
One season doesn't make Aaron better...Aaron rocks, but he is what Steve Young was to Joe Montana...Brett is a GOD compared to EVERY other player and the Colts should have picked up Brett for this year tbh. Aaron may become another Brett Favre, but Arron sure as hell doesn't 'pwn' Brett.
(I'm having fun with you -> both are amazing)
And...to stay on topic...I'm actually anxious to try PvP here.
Oddly enough..I was worried for this game when I saw the popular trailer. It was pretty bad ass until I saw Superman. He looked like a demon-possessed mongol. If they can't get him right then what hope is there for the game. Sounds silly....but it's just what I thought at the time. Now I did play beta..and it was pretty fun imo but levelling was really quick. It was for this reason that I was cautious and waited. Then I start hearing how dead it was ...and my friend on PS network said even it was dead (tho busier than PC). It is sad. I will give F2P a go since I enjoy it better than CO. I'll see how they compare now.
John Smedley says, "This is the right business model. If I can be honest, the game ended up costing a lot more than we thought it would, and this was our preferred business model from day one."
Well, why didn't you make the decision to launch with this business model?
I could answer that: So they could make the money on the client and box sales until it was clear that the sub model wasn't going to bring in enough sustained revenue. Switching to the item shop model gives SOE two more avenues of revenue - 1) is the "premium" subscription rate that is the gatekeeping mechanics that keeps the F2P leeches in their place and the item shop that always seem to be apparent in the games mechanics. I feel bad for the people coming off the beta and paying the 50-60 bucks only to find out that little johnny will be downloading the client for free in a few months.
"It cost a little more than we expected" he also said. Do your research, know your industry and plan accordingly. Pathetic business decisions.
Another reason is that when SOE was taking out loans, asking investors to buy into this game and acquiring the DC IP, its easier to show a forward earnings curve with the sub model. That is something I learned when the Big Freaks interviewed Jack Emmert from Cryptic Studios. Another bunch.
Now, that the game has probably paid off its loans etc, they can lift the lid by jumping on the F2P bandwagon. The F2P switch is quickly becoming the crutch of the MMO industry. I would respect a developer more if they had the cahones to release it as a F2P and make a game well enough to sustain itself without having to resort to plan B...or C... or D.
SOE, when are you going to realize that you don't have what it takes to hold a candle to Blizzard. You had it back in the day, but you lost it and since then, always been a second rate house with second rate games (excepts for EQ).
Enough.
/rant off
I've been saying this for a couple of years now. If you looked close enough, you could see then where the direction of the market was headed.
However, I'm of the mind now that the best case scenario for launch of a new game, particularly for a game with a decent IP, is to take us for the suckers we are and sell the game first as a P2P; make money off the box sales and initial long-term memberships including lifetime subs while hype for the game is as its peak, then convert to a F2P a few months down the road. It's a rather cruel way to treat your customers, by screwing them over asking for membership fees knowing you're going free to play in a few months, but it seems to me it would definitely increase up-front capital.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that there are at least a few companies contemplating doing exactly that. Assuming, it hasn't been intentionally done already!
As you can see by my post above, I was thinking the same thing before reading your post, lol.
Why are F2P players considered leeches by some. The game is F2p..so if you choose to play it for free that is hardly leeching. If somehow you could play P2Ps for free unbeknownst to the company...then that would be leeching...it would also be stealing. I like some of the F2P games and play them up to the point where the limitations catch up to me. Then I may sub for a bit like I did with AoC or pay outright to pretty much open it up for me like I did with LOTRO and DDO...or go log in to RIFT or WOW(rarely).
Other f2p games I'll likely play or try...Fallen Earth...STO. It's a great option to try a game and I see nothing wrong with it. If there are people that never pay a penny it still serves a purpose to fill the world with players.
I lost respect for him when he laid down for Micheal Strahan. Rogers is better in every way and much smarter as far as reading defenses while Favre used to just wing it up for laughs. If Favre didn't have Sharpe, Jenkins, Driver, Levens and a host of stars catching his mistakes it might have been a different story.
(having Reggie White and Woodson didn't hurt either^^)
Rogers is a true quarterback in every sense of the word and much better overall. Favre is just more fun to watch as an athlete, not a quarterback while Rogers is more like Montana.. a true artist at the position.
Favre was good with improv and he was an ironman tough guy which I respect, but Rogers is just better.
You should like the PvP. If you do it you unlock the Legends mode where you can play many heroes and villians which all have unique moves. Even if you don't get good gear for your main toon, the Legends mode equalizes things as far as gear so it's pretty fun.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Just some info: Free accounts (free and premium: $5 any spend) will be limited to $1500 and $2000 in-game cash respectively. Can someone please let SOE know that if their F2P model sucks the game will be resting next to Matrix online on the bottom of the ocean?
SOE even suck at giving away stuff for free. They have to get this right. Free players are going to be leveling in a day. if tey cant even afford to keep their armour repaired they will look elsewhere.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
I know this is not the thread, but you do realize that statistically Steve Young, was better than Montana. Montana is so overrated IMO. He had so many pro bowlers and hofs around in him it was a joke, not to mention the greatest receiver of all-time in the prime of his career making Joe look even better. I'd take Young over Montana any day.
Also, Favre is another who's overrated. The guy was a turnover machine and is not even in my top 10 (maybe even top 15) quarterbacks of all time. I'd take Young, Aikman, Marino, Elway, Brady or Manning over Favre without giving it a second thought. And no, I'm not joking. Other than his first year with Minnesota, the guy was always killing his teams with INTs. The only thing Favre was the best at was being the biggest narcissist the NFL's ever seen.
Dan Marino FTW....
Saw this coming from the day i started the cbt
I think Smedley knew that BW was going to be announcing TOR was going to be launching today and tried to "pre-announce" this so that it didn't get drummed over by the elephant that is The Old Republic.
I have been saying this game was going to go F2P since launch, and I also remember on the boards Radar saying how F2P was not an option - how it wasn't even being considered - and here we have Smedley talking about how it was the preferred method before they even launched.
Just more of the doubletalk bs that is SOE. Rot in hell you crappy developer.
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6506/mysig2js.jpg
and now i'm glad i didn't even bother keeping my pre-order in.
Playing
Nothing
waiting for
The secret world
Played
WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
I'm all for this game going F2P. More players will breathe a bit more life into it.
It's a good move for this game to make. I'm hoping they will release a lot more content to go with it too. The Latern DLC was good, but arrived way too late. Should have been deployed a lot quicker then that.
I was in the FE closed beta as well. Clunky combat, huge empty zones and sub par graphics are what plauged that game. It had some promise, great customer service and GM's. The community, what there was of it past launch was a dedicated more mature crowd. I went back for a month or two later on, but couldn't get into it. It bored me to tears.
I had played STO on a buddy pass, again clunky ground combat and boring space combat and said to myself, "Oh, no, no way!" Never looked at it again.
If DCUO goes F2P on the PS3, I'll download it and give it a go.
Unlike most other mmos, this game seems to lend itself exceptionally well to what a typical FTP market would be these days.
A ton of soloable content, lots of replay value (Villian/Heroe/unique storylines), costumes, small sized raids and dungeons (I can't stand huge raids anymore), duo content, and of course, PvP in various styles for a huge potential FTP market (PS3 players).
Around Xmas when they probably do another marketing campaign for television (they'd be dumb not to advertise FTP on T.V. for this now) they should get plenty of PS3 players who won't be able to play other mmos on their consoles, or players who just like the quick superheroe style of play.
I'm already envisioning a lot of teens who don't have gobs of money but will end up spending over $20/month anyways just unlocking content with parent's permission. Market wise, that's a pretty good thing to have as that will ensure the game gets the capital it needs to keep content pushed out.
A new player starting in DCUO right now has tons of things to do vs someone who started at launch and that's the key thing for the FTPers coming in which will make that game grow.
"TO MICHAEL!"