Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
I don't know about you, but I didn't pay out the full 150 for my collectors edition, I payed my local game store a fraction of said price to reserve my collectors edition, payable in full upon delivery of said item. People that are willing to pay out that amount of money for the CE, are exactly that...Collectors. I think I posted in another thread about this, but for reiteration, I will do it here.
You may look upon those who will pay out 150 for a colelctors edition as silly, and to you, it makes no sense. So when you hear about the new CE edition of the new Toys B We MMO that comes with a plushie of the Toys B We mascott Danny the Dinosaur, you roll your eyes. Now your neighbor Mrs Kindhearted, has a plushie collection that is threating to turn her house into the next special on Horders, and is an avid MMO gamer, hears about said CE and goes ape shit. To her, the amount of the CE is well worth it, to you, the damn dino can take a flyin leap.
I ordered the CE for Tor cause I like the Star Wars IP, I want the music, the statue sounded like something that would sit nicely on my desk, and the in game items sound just superfical enough to not make a game affecting difference, but could distinguish my toons just enough to not be cookie cutter versions of the other guy. Was I aware that there was no firm release date on the game at the time of the pre order? Yup. Did it bother me? Nope. Should it bother you? If you want it to.
And to give example of another game that was worse about such a thing than what is currently happening with Tor and the whole pre order and what not, and I hate to make this comparison, but Doom had done things like pre orders and release dates throughout it's mysterious 12 year dev cycle that came and went. Not exactly the same, but close enough for a comparison. And no, I don't think it's going to take Tor another 10 years to release....dear gods I hope not anyway
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
I don't know about you, but I didn't pay out the full 150 for my collectors edition, I payed my local game store a fraction of said price to reserve my collectors edition, payable in full upon delivery of said item. People that are willing to pay out that amount of money for the CE, are exactly that...Collectors. I think I posted in another thread about this, but for reiteration, I will do it here.
You may look upon those who will pay out 150 for a colelctors edition as silly, and to you, it makes no sense. So when you hear about the new CE edition of the new Toys B We MMO that comes with a plushie of the Toys B We mascott Danny the Dinosaur, you roll your eyes. Now your neighbor Mrs Kindhearted, has a plushie collection that is threating to turn her house into the next special on Horders, and is an avid MMO gamer, hears about said CE and goes ape shit. To her, the amount of the CE is well worth it, to you, the damn dino can take a flyin leap.
I ordered the CE for Tor cause I like the Star Wars IP, I want the music, the statue sounded like something that would sit nicely on my desk, and the in game items sound just superfical enough to not make a game affecting difference, but could distinguish my toons just enough to not be cookie cutter versions of the other guy. Was I aware that there was no firm release date on the game at the time of the pre order? Yup. Did it bother me? Nope. Should it bother you? If you want it to.
And to give example of another game that was worse about such a thing than what is currently happening with Tor and the whole pre order and what not, and I hate to make this comparison, but Doom had done things like pre orders and release dates throughout it's mysterious 12 year dev cycle that came and went. Not exactly the same, but close enough for a comparison. And no, I don't think it's going to take Tor another 10 years to release....dear gods I hope not anyway
Yep.. See I've said things like "development cost will likely be covered by pre-orders" and that means what it sounds like. However, I'm not sure why some people think that pre-orders were paid up front and that EA already has the money.
People who ordered through Origin... (there was a temp hold for the full amount but this is not an actual charge).
CE's paid a $20 up front fee
DE and Standard paid a $5 up front fee
Retailers beyond that I can't say. I do know if you ordered from Amazon you pay nothing until it ships.
Of the total pre-orders for the game likely only a small percentage will have been through Origin. When you put money down at a EB Games type of place that money doesn't go to EA. It goes to the retailer you put money down with until they get their product from EA and pay them for it.
So the amount of money EA actually got from the pre-orders is most likely not that much.
When I talk about "pre-orders will likely cover development cost".. I'm talking about when they actually ship those and charge for them at "headstart".
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
150 bucks? no more like 20 and rest will be charged once the game is released. As far as funding game development not being aplayers job.... actually it is. MMOS are ongoing process; whether it is F2P or P2P, whatever money you spend on game is used for its development. Did you think devs put money in new content out of their own pockets?
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
150 bucks? no more like 20 and rest will be charged once the game is released. As far as funding game development not being aplayers job.... actually it is. MMOS are ongoing process; whether it is F2P or P2P, whatever money you spend on game is used for its development. Did you think devs put money in new content out of their own pockets?
So you are saying you should also start paying subscription before you actually get to play the game? Like maybe 6 months in advance?
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
I don't know about you, but I didn't pay out the full 150 for my collectors edition, I payed my local game store a fraction of said price to reserve my collectors edition, payable in full upon delivery of said item. People that are willing to pay out that amount of money for the CE, are exactly that...Collectors. I think I posted in another thread about this, but for reiteration, I will do it here.
You may look upon those who will pay out 150 for a colelctors edition as silly, and to you, it makes no sense. So when you hear about the new CE edition of the new Toys B We MMO that comes with a plushie of the Toys B We mascott Danny the Dinosaur, you roll your eyes. Now your neighbor Mrs Kindhearted, has a plushie collection that is threating to turn her house into the next special on Horders, and is an avid MMO gamer, hears about said CE and goes ape shit. To her, the amount of the CE is well worth it, to you, the damn dino can take a flyin leap.
I ordered the CE for Tor cause I like the Star Wars IP, I want the music, the statue sounded like something that would sit nicely on my desk, and the in game items sound just superfical enough to not make a game affecting difference, but could distinguish my toons just enough to not be cookie cutter versions of the other guy. Was I aware that there was no firm release date on the game at the time of the pre order? Yup. Did it bother me? Nope. Should it bother you? If you want it to.
And to give example of another game that was worse about such a thing than what is currently happening with Tor and the whole pre order and what not, and I hate to make this comparison, but Doom had done things like pre orders and release dates throughout it's mysterious 12 year dev cycle that came and went. Not exactly the same, but close enough for a comparison. And no, I don't think it's going to take Tor another 10 years to release....dear gods I hope not anyway
No I was not trying to say that paying 150 bucks for a CE is silly. Paying 150 bucks (or 20 bucks or w/e amount) UP FRONT for an unpublished game - an MMO nonetheless - is silly.
Whether or not the extra stuff in the CE is worth the money vs. the standard edition is a non-issue here. It's totally subjective.
But paying money for a product you don't even know when you're gonna get... ouch.
Having said that, the CE preorders have at least a tiny bit of sense in them because of the fact that those copies definitely are limited in number.
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
I don't know about you, but I didn't pay out the full 150 for my collectors edition, I payed my local game store a fraction of said price to reserve my collectors edition, payable in full upon delivery of said item. People that are willing to pay out that amount of money for the CE, are exactly that...Collectors. I think I posted in another thread about this, but for reiteration, I will do it here.
You may look upon those who will pay out 150 for a colelctors edition as silly, and to you, it makes no sense. So when you hear about the new CE edition of the new Toys B We MMO that comes with a plushie of the Toys B We mascott Danny the Dinosaur, you roll your eyes. Now your neighbor Mrs Kindhearted, has a plushie collection that is threating to turn her house into the next special on Horders, and is an avid MMO gamer, hears about said CE and goes ape shit. To her, the amount of the CE is well worth it, to you, the damn dino can take a flyin leap.
I ordered the CE for Tor cause I like the Star Wars IP, I want the music, the statue sounded like something that would sit nicely on my desk, and the in game items sound just superfical enough to not make a game affecting difference, but could distinguish my toons just enough to not be cookie cutter versions of the other guy. Was I aware that there was no firm release date on the game at the time of the pre order? Yup. Did it bother me? Nope. Should it bother you? If you want it to.
And to give example of another game that was worse about such a thing than what is currently happening with Tor and the whole pre order and what not, and I hate to make this comparison, but Doom had done things like pre orders and release dates throughout it's mysterious 12 year dev cycle that came and went. Not exactly the same, but close enough for a comparison. And no, I don't think it's going to take Tor another 10 years to release....dear gods I hope not anyway
Yep.. See I've said things like "development cost will likely be covered by pre-orders" and that means what it sounds like. However, I'm not sure why some people think that pre-orders were paid up front and that EA already has the money.
People who ordered through Origin... (there was a temp hold for the full amount but this is not an actual charge).
CE's paid a $20 up front fee
DE and Standard paid a $5 up front fee
Retailers beyond that I can't say. I do know if you ordered from Amazon you pay nothing until it ships.
Of the total pre-orders for the game likely only a small percentage will have been through Origin. When you put money down at a EB Games type of place that money doesn't go to EA. It goes to the retailer you put money down with until they get their product from EA and pay them for it.
So the amount of money EA actually got from the pre-orders is most likely not that much.
When I talk about "pre-orders will likely cover development cost".. I'm talking about when they actually ship those and charge for them at "headstart".
It's a damn fine way to get a jump start on recouping the dev cost and heading towards the costs of expansions and content patches. I don't think people realize that, like you said, EA/BW isn't getting your money just yet (maybe if you ordered through Origin, I duuno), so none of that money down you gave yer local game store was sent to them. The game stores wouldn't do that incase you changed your mind, cause if they did, they'd have to try and get the money back from EA/BW....and I can't see that happening.
It did amuse me that (as someone linked) the Skyrim CE was also selling for 150., and as of yet...i have seen no "WTF Bethesda!" posts about it.
From my perspective it's simple and not much of a debacle. I will not preorder until I know the release date, early access date, and required subscription fees to play...
Horrors! These guys are positively criminal!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
I don't know about you, but I didn't pay out the full 150 for my collectors edition, I payed my local game store a fraction of said price to reserve my collectors edition, payable in full upon delivery of said item. People that are willing to pay out that amount of money for the CE, are exactly that...Collectors. I think I posted in another thread about this, but for reiteration, I will do it here.
You may look upon those who will pay out 150 for a colelctors edition as silly, and to you, it makes no sense. So when you hear about the new CE edition of the new Toys B We MMO that comes with a plushie of the Toys B We mascott Danny the Dinosaur, you roll your eyes. Now your neighbor Mrs Kindhearted, has a plushie collection that is threating to turn her house into the next special on Horders, and is an avid MMO gamer, hears about said CE and goes ape shit. To her, the amount of the CE is well worth it, to you, the damn dino can take a flyin leap.
I ordered the CE for Tor cause I like the Star Wars IP, I want the music, the statue sounded like something that would sit nicely on my desk, and the in game items sound just superfical enough to not make a game affecting difference, but could distinguish my toons just enough to not be cookie cutter versions of the other guy. Was I aware that there was no firm release date on the game at the time of the pre order? Yup. Did it bother me? Nope. Should it bother you? If you want it to.
And to give example of another game that was worse about such a thing than what is currently happening with Tor and the whole pre order and what not, and I hate to make this comparison, but Doom had done things like pre orders and release dates throughout it's mysterious 12 year dev cycle that came and went. Not exactly the same, but close enough for a comparison. And no, I don't think it's going to take Tor another 10 years to release....dear gods I hope not anyway
No I was not trying to say that paying 150 bucks for a CE is silly. Paying 150 bucks (or 20 bucks or w/e amount) UP FRONT for an unpublished game - an MMO nonetheless - is silly.
Whether or not the extra stuff in the CE is worth the money vs. the standard edition is a non-issue here. It's totally subjective.
But paying money for a product you don't even know when you're gonna get... ouch.
Having said that, the CE preorders have at least a tiny bit of sense in them because of the fact that those copies definitely are limited in number.
The same can be said for a lot of things in life, going to the theatre to watch a movie you are basically paying for the product before you consume it and it's not like you can not get your money back in the instance.
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
I don't know about you, but I didn't pay out the full 150 for my collectors edition, I payed my local game store a fraction of said price to reserve my collectors edition, payable in full upon delivery of said item. People that are willing to pay out that amount of money for the CE, are exactly that...Collectors. I think I posted in another thread about this, but for reiteration, I will do it here.
You may look upon those who will pay out 150 for a colelctors edition as silly, and to you, it makes no sense. So when you hear about the new CE edition of the new Toys B We MMO that comes with a plushie of the Toys B We mascott Danny the Dinosaur, you roll your eyes. Now your neighbor Mrs Kindhearted, has a plushie collection that is threating to turn her house into the next special on Horders, and is an avid MMO gamer, hears about said CE and goes ape shit. To her, the amount of the CE is well worth it, to you, the damn dino can take a flyin leap.
I ordered the CE for Tor cause I like the Star Wars IP, I want the music, the statue sounded like something that would sit nicely on my desk, and the in game items sound just superfical enough to not make a game affecting difference, but could distinguish my toons just enough to not be cookie cutter versions of the other guy. Was I aware that there was no firm release date on the game at the time of the pre order? Yup. Did it bother me? Nope. Should it bother you? If you want it to.
And to give example of another game that was worse about such a thing than what is currently happening with Tor and the whole pre order and what not, and I hate to make this comparison, but Doom had done things like pre orders and release dates throughout it's mysterious 12 year dev cycle that came and went. Not exactly the same, but close enough for a comparison. And no, I don't think it's going to take Tor another 10 years to release....dear gods I hope not anyway
No I was not trying to say that paying 150 bucks for a CE is silly. Paying 150 bucks (or 20 bucks or w/e amount) UP FRONT for an unpublished game - an MMO nonetheless - is silly.
Whether or not the extra stuff in the CE is worth the money vs. the standard edition is a non-issue here. It's totally subjective.
But paying money for a product you don't even know when you're gonna get... ouch.
Having said that, the CE preorders have at least a tiny bit of sense in them because of the fact that those copies definitely are limited in number.
The same can be said for a lot of things in life, going to the theatre to watch a movie you are basically paying for the product before you consume it and it's not like you can not get your money back in the instance.
This would be a bit more like paying to see the premiere of the movie months in advance without knowing what day, or month, it will actually be. That's ok though.
Or buying tickets to the championship game of a professional sport before you know who will be playing or where it will happen. Hundreds of thousands do it every year though and those tickets, for one day of a game, cost a lot more than the CE of this game does (on average).
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.The Iron Code"
From my perspective it's simple and not much of a debacle. I will not preorder until I know the release date, early access date, and required subscription fees to play...
Horrors! These guys are positively criminal!
No. Based on first hand observation they are simply geeks unless you are refering to EA. If the companies are not yet prepared to be forthcoming with such basic product information then I am not yet prepared to invest my money into their product.
From my perspective it's simple and not much of a debacle. I will not preorder until I know the release date, early access date, and required subscription fees to play...
Horrors! These guys are positively criminal!
No. Based on first hand observation they are simply geeks unless you are refering to EA. If the companies are not yet prepared to be forthcoming with such basic product information then I am not yet prepared to invest my money into their product.
Sarcasm escapes you?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I guess it's a matter of principle for some people.
But I haven't given Bio any money yet, and the pre-order is cancelable right up until the day before--so I still fail to see any debacle.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Ad hominem, on the other hand, is new and refreshing.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
And once again I find myself completely baffled with the way how people reason and think about things when I enter this site and forums. It's as if I enter some kind of 'Twilight Zone' when I visit these forums and landed behind the looking glass where normal logic and common sense have been replaced by 'Alice in Wonderland' logic
I tend to agree with Sovrath, if I understand it correctly preorders can be cancelled with little cost at any moment so it's more of a reservation, nor is it some scam where you're paying for vaporware from some untrustworthy shady company.
It's likeliest that preorders are nothing more than an indication of how many packages need to be produced and what numbers they can expect at launch. But that's my guess.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The people that did preorder knew there was no fixed release date but preordered regardless. It may seem strange that there is no announced release date yet, but that's how it is. While I find the message of capped amount of players being allowed in to create a sense of scarcity was somewhat misplaced, I wouldn't call it a debacle. Either go for it or don't, your decision.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
It is a matter of principle for some. I will not “promise” to buy an item knowing that I might well change my mind in short order based upon the details of currently unknown information. If you find yourself unable to be firm in a commitment then you do not make it. Seemingly harmless or not...
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
150 bucks? no more like 20 and rest will be charged once the game is released. As far as funding game development not being aplayers job.... actually it is. MMOS are ongoing process; whether it is F2P or P2P, whatever money you spend on game is used for its development. Did you think devs put money in new content out of their own pockets?
So you are saying you should also start paying subscription before you actually get to play the game? Like maybe 6 months in advance?
No i didn't say that. All i am saying is that whatever you pay now or later is used in game development.
Before I started playing MMOs (something like six years ago now) I'd buy 1 or 2 new games a month.
Since then, I'm down to maybe one new game a quarter, maybe even twice a year; I can afford to splash out on the occasional CE - or even the occasional LTS - for less than I used to pay for single player games.
Having played the game back in November I'm more than happy to preorder it, but there's been more than enough written about it and enough videos floating around for anyone who hasn't tried it, to know whether or not they're likely to take to it.
You pulled in the Ferrari comparison. It's not like anyone buys a Ferrari if they have to take a huge loan to do it. It's besides the point anyway.
In my opinion, and let it be recorded down as such, paying the developers for the game up front (150 USD nonetheless!) does nothing to get the game out in a timely manner. Hey if you got all development costs covered by pre-orders already, why not fine-tune the game for another year just because you can now afford it?
Funding the game's development should not be the players' job.
No I didn't and it doesn't even make sense. I'm paying less now than I was then.
And since so many people confuse preorder with paying up front: my preorder hasn't cost me a bean.
With the hype over the last few years or Warhammer/Rift/Aion etc i think the marketing team at EA/Bioware are trying to milk as many box sales as they can while showing and promising very little in the way of release dates/betas.
The reason being that the above triple A titles suffered huge attrition within months of release and EA/Bioware are taking this into account.. With the history of new MMO's in the last few years this is perfectly understandable but nonetheless very annoying.
I am certainly not going to commit up to $150 for a carrot i can't even nibble at this point. And i certainly don't want to mention to my friends that i've just spent $150 on a new release game only to see the raised eyebrows from them when i add that i have no idea when it is released . They would think im crazy.
With these constant delays and "bait and switch" marketing tactics from Bioware it smells to me that they may feel their product is less than stellar as far as keeping long term supbscribers so they are using this "buy now and we may give youa beta spot " ploy to keep the box sales going for as long as possible as the game might not have the depth to take it beyond a few months of subscriptions.
Don't get me wrong im not bagging the game but given the facts so far i find this could be the reasons behind it .
Hope im wrong and it's the next big thing.
Yep you're right, 2 to 3 months after launch the mass exodus will start, the gravy train ends and yes EAware are milking this good because they know full well it ain't that great. Oh but dude people played it and were amazed, YES they were amazed because anything new is amazing, wait til the novelty wears off and the realization of what this game really is sets in, it's not going to hold the majority of players for more than a month or two.
Comments
I don't know about you, but I didn't pay out the full 150 for my collectors edition, I payed my local game store a fraction of said price to reserve my collectors edition, payable in full upon delivery of said item. People that are willing to pay out that amount of money for the CE, are exactly that...Collectors. I think I posted in another thread about this, but for reiteration, I will do it here.
You may look upon those who will pay out 150 for a colelctors edition as silly, and to you, it makes no sense. So when you hear about the new CE edition of the new Toys B We MMO that comes with a plushie of the Toys B We mascott Danny the Dinosaur, you roll your eyes. Now your neighbor Mrs Kindhearted, has a plushie collection that is threating to turn her house into the next special on Horders, and is an avid MMO gamer, hears about said CE and goes ape shit. To her, the amount of the CE is well worth it, to you, the damn dino can take a flyin leap.
I ordered the CE for Tor cause I like the Star Wars IP, I want the music, the statue sounded like something that would sit nicely on my desk, and the in game items sound just superfical enough to not make a game affecting difference, but could distinguish my toons just enough to not be cookie cutter versions of the other guy. Was I aware that there was no firm release date on the game at the time of the pre order? Yup. Did it bother me? Nope. Should it bother you? If you want it to.
And to give example of another game that was worse about such a thing than what is currently happening with Tor and the whole pre order and what not, and I hate to make this comparison, but Doom had done things like pre orders and release dates throughout it's mysterious 12 year dev cycle that came and went. Not exactly the same, but close enough for a comparison. And no, I don't think it's going to take Tor another 10 years to release....dear gods I hope not anyway
Yep.. See I've said things like "development cost will likely be covered by pre-orders" and that means what it sounds like. However, I'm not sure why some people think that pre-orders were paid up front and that EA already has the money.
People who ordered through Origin... (there was a temp hold for the full amount but this is not an actual charge).
CE's paid a $20 up front fee
DE and Standard paid a $5 up front fee
Retailers beyond that I can't say. I do know if you ordered from Amazon you pay nothing until it ships.
Of the total pre-orders for the game likely only a small percentage will have been through Origin. When you put money down at a EB Games type of place that money doesn't go to EA. It goes to the retailer you put money down with until they get their product from EA and pay them for it.
So the amount of money EA actually got from the pre-orders is most likely not that much.
When I talk about "pre-orders will likely cover development cost".. I'm talking about when they actually ship those and charge for them at "headstart".
150 bucks? no more like 20 and rest will be charged once the game is released. As far as funding game development not being aplayers job.... actually it is. MMOS are ongoing process; whether it is F2P or P2P, whatever money you spend on game is used for its development. Did you think devs put money in new content out of their own pockets?
So you are saying you should also start paying subscription before you actually get to play the game? Like maybe 6 months in advance?
No I was not trying to say that paying 150 bucks for a CE is silly. Paying 150 bucks (or 20 bucks or w/e amount) UP FRONT for an unpublished game - an MMO nonetheless - is silly.
Whether or not the extra stuff in the CE is worth the money vs. the standard edition is a non-issue here. It's totally subjective.
But paying money for a product you don't even know when you're gonna get... ouch.
Having said that, the CE preorders have at least a tiny bit of sense in them because of the fact that those copies definitely are limited in number.
I will pre-order once I know the release date, the pricing scheme & maybe even the system requirements.
It's a damn fine way to get a jump start on recouping the dev cost and heading towards the costs of expansions and content patches. I don't think people realize that, like you said, EA/BW isn't getting your money just yet (maybe if you ordered through Origin, I duuno), so none of that money down you gave yer local game store was sent to them. The game stores wouldn't do that incase you changed your mind, cause if they did, they'd have to try and get the money back from EA/BW....and I can't see that happening.
It did amuse me that (as someone linked) the Skyrim CE was also selling for 150., and as of yet...i have seen no "WTF Bethesda!" posts about it.
Go forth and post away now
Horrors! These guys are positively criminal!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The system requirements are already on the main website. Just go to swtor.com and tool around. It isn't THAT hard to find.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
The same can be said for a lot of things in life, going to the theatre to watch a movie you are basically paying for the product before you consume it and it's not like you can not get your money back in the instance.
In Bioware we trust!
Or buying tickets to the championship game of a professional sport before you know who will be playing or where it will happen. Hundreds of thousands do it every year though and those tickets, for one day of a game, cost a lot more than the CE of this game does (on average).
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I was in the last CB. I ordered the CE.
There ya go.
Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.The Iron Code"
pretty much this. I saw the title and thought "what debacle"?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No. Based on first hand observation they are simply geeks unless you are refering to EA. If the companies are not yet prepared to be forthcoming with such basic product information then I am not yet prepared to invest my money into their product.
Sarcasm escapes you?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I guess it's a matter of principle for some people.
But I haven't given Bio any money yet, and the pre-order is cancelable right up until the day before--so I still fail to see any debacle.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Ad hominem, on the other hand, is new and refreshing.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
this.
I don't recall anyone actually taking my money. I just said "I would give them money" and they said "thanks".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I ordered mine through Amazon and they haven't charged my CC yet. vOv
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
And once again I find myself completely baffled with the way how people reason and think about things when I enter this site and forums. It's as if I enter some kind of 'Twilight Zone' when I visit these forums and landed behind the looking glass where normal logic and common sense have been replaced by 'Alice in Wonderland' logic
I tend to agree with Sovrath, if I understand it correctly preorders can be cancelled with little cost at any moment so it's more of a reservation, nor is it some scam where you're paying for vaporware from some untrustworthy shady company.
It's likeliest that preorders are nothing more than an indication of how many packages need to be produced and what numbers they can expect at launch. But that's my guess.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The people that did preorder knew there was no fixed release date but preordered regardless. It may seem strange that there is no announced release date yet, but that's how it is. While I find the message of capped amount of players being allowed in to create a sense of scarcity was somewhat misplaced, I wouldn't call it a debacle. Either go for it or don't, your decision.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
It is a matter of principle for some. I will not “promise” to buy an item knowing that I might well change my mind in short order based upon the details of currently unknown information. If you find yourself unable to be firm in a commitment then you do not make it. Seemingly harmless or not...
No i didn't say that. All i am saying is that whatever you pay now or later is used in game development.
No I didn't and it doesn't even make sense. I'm paying less now than I was then.
And since so many people confuse preorder with paying up front: my preorder hasn't cost me a bean.
Yep you're right, 2 to 3 months after launch the mass exodus will start, the gravy train ends and yes EAware are milking this good because they know full well it ain't that great. Oh but dude people played it and were amazed, YES they were amazed because anything new is amazing, wait til the novelty wears off and the realization of what this game really is sets in, it's not going to hold the majority of players for more than a month or two.