Funny, and that's also an outstanding observation. It's only a cliche of its former self.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Innovation for WoW died many years ago when the original developers left, what do you expect.
Not sure you can credit them with much innovation.
Nothing existed in WoW on opening day that did not already exist in one (or several) earlier MMOs.
They did do one thing extraordinarily well. They gathered up the best ideas and best systems from their predecessors and left many bad or marginal ideas behind--and made a lot of good decisions about what to keep and what to pitch.
Put the final Polish on the EQ Formula, in other words. Kind of ironic that other companies are doing the same to Blizzard now.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WHAT?!?!?! LOL Deathwing nearly destroyed all of azeroth. Deathwing would ruin illidan and arthas combined. Only Kil jaden and maybe sargeras could stand a chance. Anf the stupid naga queen is bigger then him?!?!?! Have you ever read the eternity well books? I guess not.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I am not surprised that WoW has it sub numbers. I tell anyone who is new to the MMO world to try wow first and then try a real game so you get the basics down. To many people just get caught up in wow to try many other great mmos such as lotro, rift, AoC, and Vanguard (my fave). I just dont see how people have fun sitting in SW or ORG waiting for raids and queues. While in rift i can artifact farm, in VG i can explore, and in Lotro i can farm deeds. I realized i wasnt have fun in WoW anymore when i said to myself "Wow sitting in org is fun, DO i want to farm JC stuff? No." The final straw came when Arthas was killed ONE day after his room opened up. ONE DAY! Even if it was 10 man its still inexcusable for one of Warcrafts greatest villains.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Yawn, WoW blows no matter how you spin it. Games seem to outlive their euphoric feel after about 5 years, during which time they nerf play to attract new inexperienced folks that ultimately ruin it further. Eq followed a similar path and eq2 was their answer. On the bright side at lest wow isn't making you begin again in a new world ... Blah blah blah, whatever, cant wait for swtor and tsw. We can at least enjoy one of those for the next 5 years.
Yawn, WoW blows no matter how you spin it. Games seem to outlive their euphoric feel after about 5 years, during which time they nerf play to attract new inexperienced folks that ultimately ruin it further. Eq followed a similar path and eq2 was their answer. On the bright side at lest wow isn't making you begin again in a new world ... Blah blah blah, whatever, cant wait for swtor and tsw. We can at least enjoy one of those for the next 5 years.
Ummm EQ is actually having a bit of a resurgence right now. SOE is releasing expansion 17 (18?) soon and a lot of old players (self included) have gone back to the progression servers to play the game the way it used to be played 10 years ago. No it's not the shining beacon that it was pre-WoW, but I still think it has more to offer than WoW's candy cart mentality.
All the people who say that WoW has lost X or needs Y or generally needs to suit their needs and wants needs to stop and realize something: Not everybody plays the way you do nor have been in WoW as long as you. I only have the BC and only one toon is at 49. So all this bawwing about level 85 or what can or cannot be done with X expantions is things I have not experienced yet...
...Along with the rest of the noobs that come in and out of WoW daily. So, to start adding all these things to cater to the hard-core vets would just be more things to catch up on and only deal with when the time comes. However, whenever myself or others get to that point, there will be even more stuff to catch up on...So it becomes a vicious circle that may fustrate many and only please a few.
Also, there is no such thing as a "perfect" MMO. If you are expecting perfection from WoW, then you are in for some disappointment. Games like WoW or UO have lasted this long because they have something that keeps players coming back. It certainly isn't perfect and many have tried to replicate its formula. Some have even tried to apease those here with their suggestions...
...Tell me, how well are they doing? Any of them as successful as WoW? Any of them as reconized as WoW? Any of them get even close to the 11 to 12 million subscriber mark? No? Then maybe the problem isn't WoW, but your mindset. MMOs do not exist to please everybody's fickled whim. If that were the case, I dread to see how that would look.
Now before anybody brings out the strawman argument about SW:TOR, I am going to burn that down with the fact the game isn't out yet and is an invalid point. Until it comes out, there is no telling how well that game will do or how many will be around one year later... or if the game will be around one year later... There have been countless "WoW Killers" that have been hyped up like TOR and haven't survived. What is to say that TOR will fail in one to two years? Unless you have ESP, there is no guarentee that TOR is the next WoW or will exist in 10 years.
I am sure there are going to be those that say things like "Subscriptions != Sucess". I agree that is true... Ultima Online is still around 14 years after launch and doesn't have the numbers that WoW has. Neither does Everquest... and that is still around. WoW may have lost 1 million subscribers but has gained many more thanks in part to the new trial.
So for those who still wish to rag on WoW, I say this: Nobody is forcing you to play WoW. You are free to leave to another MMO. Feel free to defend your MMO but if all your argument is "BAWWWW I am at level 85 and the game isn't catering to my wants!!", then maybe you need to grow up.
11-12 million people can, by the way, indeed be wrong. Consider our presidential elections of the past....think about some of the presidents we elected (if you're in the US). I won't use the standard arguments of shitty restaurants and pop stars, you already know those. But yes, 11-12 million people CAN indeed be wrong, and have been over the course of history, many times. Just think back through history ffs.
There is a big difference between history or elections and subscribers:
11 million voters can't up and change their vote half way through a term. 12 million people in history can't change the history by changing their mind.
If what you say is true, then 11 ~ 12 million people can't change how WoW operates. The reason there hasn't been enough of whatever people baww about here is because, for whatever reason, people are still playing WoW regardless of it's problems. People gripe and complain, but if it really was that bad then why hasn't subs dropped below 10 million?
Point is: As long as people keep complaining but keep playing and paying, what motivation does Blizzard have to change? As far as they see: there isn't much of a problem if >9 or 10 Million are paying for subs. As long as there isn't a significant drop, the "rinse and repeat" will continue because for whatever reason: It is working.
There isn't an easy solution to all that ails MMOs. WoW included. People whine about PvP and that there needs to be more PvP in WoW... Well, not everybody likes PvP. Not everybody goes into PvP servers... On the same side of the token: Not everybody likes PvE or RP or... or... or.. The point is: People are going to play one way or another and you can't please everybody. For some reason, WoW has managed to last this long despite its issues.
That is not to say that WoW is invincible. Personally, I want to see TOR and what it has to offer. If it does well, maybe it will put a fire under Blizzard's butt to improve on the game. However, so far nothing has come close. Nothing has pulled down WoW's numbers enough for Blizzard to sit up and take notice much less worry.
Does that mean SWTOR is doomed? No, and I don't have ESP either so I really don't know if it will hurt or help WoW. Frankly, I do want to see TOR do well, despite it being a slave to EA. However to say "SWTOR iz gunna kick WoWz arse!! LOL" before the game is even out is meaningless not to mention speculative (and childish if said in that way). If TOR or another MMO does well, maybe it will cause Blizzard to reevaluate what they are doing...
Untill then, what do they care? They certainly don't read this forum and they got 11 million or so subscribers...
I'll let your logic professor explain why argumentum ad numerum is a primary fallacy.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'll let your logic professor explain why argumentum ad numerum is a primary fallacy.
Let me give you a simple formula to understand the issue better:
(11 Million Subs * $14.99) + Hardly Any Competition + No Threat From Other MMO Games = $164,890,000 per month reasons why they don't have to change.
That of course is an estimate and it goes without saying that number isn't accurate due to the fact not every sub is a monthly paying customer or take into account the actual sub number.
The point? You don't get that many players or subscribers by doing a sub-standard game.
Does that mean they are free to pull a George Lucas and mess with it to the point where it is a garbage game? Absolutely not. As I keep saying: WoW isn't perfect. However some (not all) of the arguments about it are moot because they are based on people's play style or preference.
Do I think that WoW is the End All/Say all MMO? Absolutely not. However, I do think if a MMO wants to be the next king, it has a lot of work cut out for it. Also, I do agree there is a lot that Blizzard need to do and quite a bit they need not do. However for somebody to dismiss WoW's influence because of speculation and personal opinion is an even bigger fallacy than mine...
So if you want to see WoW change or better yet have another MMO be the influential game then convince those playing WoW to quit or play another MMO. Otherwise, Blizzard won't improve on their game and have another $164,890,000 reasons to keep with the status quo. I personally want to see SWTOR do well becuase it is SW and was disappointed in SWG. However there is no guarentee written anywhere that it will nor is it written in stone that it will kill or harm WoW.
If you really think 11 million ppl are paying 14.99$ every month as subscription in WoW....you know nothing!
Most of their "subscribers" numbers come from Asia....and there they pay a lot less...since they only play for hours played....
So that 11million subscribers shit is nothing more than that....(bull) shit.
Dude. Chill.
First you obviously missed a very important part when I said:
Originally posted by DiEx80
That of course is an estimate and it goes without saying that number isn't accurate due to the fact not every sub is a monthly paying customer or take into account the actual sub number.
Secondly: Do you have any figures that state where all the subs are from?
Unless you provide proof, it is just more speculation and opinion...
Third: What difference does it make where the subs are from? None in my book. 11 to 12 million is still 11 to 12 million. That is a fact, not opinion. Even if 10 million are Asian, all it means is that they dig the game.
So feel free to think and feel anyway you want. I still stand firm that any new MMO will have its work cut out for it. Also, if anybody wants to see change done to any MMO, then they need to speak in ways other than coming on here and bawwing about it.
Fanboism in this thread has rendered it impossible to tolerate reading, repetitive, and boring. Like game like fan, I suppose.
Every time WoW releases something new I used to consider going back, but then I realized that it's all just re-hashed previous stuff or things stolen from other games (like the banking system and guild leveling, among other things). Each time something new came out I used to go back....15 dollars here, 15 dollars there....until I realized I was just throwing money at them for what? Nothing. I wasn't going to play, there wasn't going to be any feeling of newness to it all, and I was ultimately going to just be pissed. So....I quit giving Blizzard money.
What Blizzard does well is rinse and repeat. And they are GOOD at it. And if you don't mind the repetitive nature of it all, I suppose it could be fun for you. Not for me. If I'm going to give money to a game company I'm going to believe they care about their game and their players....neither of which Blizzard seems to care for much. Blizzard cares about money. They care JUST ENOUGH about their game to keep it going for MONEY and nothing else. If they can't care enough to make some non-repetitive content for ME (and the other million players that would like that)....I don't care enough about THEM to give them money, even if 11 million people want to.....I don't have to be dim-witted and do it because THEY do. lol
Fuck Blizzard and fuck WoW and D3 and Titan. Sometimes you just have all you can take of a company, and I've reached that place. I feel about Blizzard the way some people feel about SoE.
Fanboism in this thread has rendered it impossible to tolerate reading, repetitive, and boring. Like game like fan, I suppose.
Every time WoW releases something new I used to consider going back, but then I realized that it's all just re-hashed previous stuff or things stolen from other games (like the banking system and guild leveling, among other things). Each time something new came out I used to go back....15 dollars here, 15 dollars there....until I realized I was just throwing money at them for what? Nothing. I wasn't going to play, there wasn't going to be any feeling of newness to it all, and I was ultimately going to just be pissed. So....I quit giving Blizzard money.
What Blizzard does well is rinse and repeat. And they are GOOD at it. And if you don't mind the repetitive nature of it all, I suppose it could be fun for you. Not for me. If I'm going to give money to a game company I'm going to believe they care about their game and their players....neither of which Blizzard seems to care for much. Blizzard cares about money. They care JUST ENOUGH about their game to keep it going for MONEY and nothing else. If they can't care enough to make some non-repetitive content for ME (and the other million players that would like that)....I don't care enough about THEM to give them money, even if 11 million people want to.....I don't have to be dim-witted and do it because THEY do. lol
Fuck Blizzard and fuck WoW and D3 and Titan. Sometimes you just have all you can take of a company, and I've reached that place. I feel about Blizzard the way some people feel about SoE.
Rock on
Just like McDonalds cares about your health.
It's all about the buck and nothing else, keep the treadmill going and going and going and goi.......
Yet another huge lore event I'll miss out on because raiding is required to do it! {never have seen BWL, AQ, Dark Temple, Frozen Throne, and now the Deathwing encounter...I did from eventually watch them on YouTube, but thats no way to enjoy the game like everyone else getting to actually experience it!}
Seriously though, I honestly don't see why it'd be so hard for them to implement a 5-man or even solo/duo version {like Trion is about to do in Rift} for players that just don't like to raid. And I know I've bitched and whined and complained in the past about not getting the good gear that raiders do, but in reality I don't care about that, I want to see the story and be able to participate in these epic lore changing events!
Anyway...
There are many people who play the game at pre-level caps and run those raids all the time. There are also pug'ing old-school raids ALL THE TIME for the raider Achieve. Because you can't do the raids isn't because Blizzard is keepin ya down, it's because you don't try to do them. How many times does Blizzard nerf-bat at-level raids so that others can enjoy them? ALL THE TIME, at every release of another teir. It's one of the reasons the LFRaid tool will be successful.
Seriously people, everyone bitches and complains that everything is SO easy in WoW and it's SO dumbed down then hypocritically complain that raiding is too hard or takes to long.
Some things in PvE need to be challanging and take hours to progress, it's how MMO's keep you playing.
So Blizzard finally copped GW/Aion's weapon skinning system for WoW. They're getting slow... usually they blatantly steal good ideas way faster than this.
Comments
Funny, and that's also an outstanding observation. It's only a cliche of its former self.
Innovation for WoW died many years ago when the original developers left, what do you expect.
I thought somebody said Deathwing.
Not sure you can credit them with much innovation.
Nothing existed in WoW on opening day that did not already exist in one (or several) earlier MMOs.
They did do one thing extraordinarily well. They gathered up the best ideas and best systems from their predecessors and left many bad or marginal ideas behind--and made a lot of good decisions about what to keep and what to pitch.
Put the final Polish on the EQ Formula, in other words. Kind of ironic that other companies are doing the same to Blizzard now.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WHAT?!?!?! LOL Deathwing nearly destroyed all of azeroth. Deathwing would ruin illidan and arthas combined. Only Kil jaden and maybe sargeras could stand a chance. Anf the stupid naga queen is bigger then him?!?!?! Have you ever read the eternity well books? I guess not.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I am not surprised that WoW has it sub numbers. I tell anyone who is new to the MMO world to try wow first and then try a real game so you get the basics down. To many people just get caught up in wow to try many other great mmos such as lotro, rift, AoC, and Vanguard (my fave). I just dont see how people have fun sitting in SW or ORG waiting for raids and queues. While in rift i can artifact farm, in VG i can explore, and in Lotro i can farm deeds. I realized i wasnt have fun in WoW anymore when i said to myself "Wow sitting in org is fun, DO i want to farm JC stuff? No." The final straw came when Arthas was killed ONE day after his room opened up. ONE DAY! Even if it was 10 man its still inexcusable for one of Warcrafts greatest villains.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
/facepalm
terribly sorry, that was actually funny now and it completely went past me
What? They all hit auto target and mashed keys at it? WOW! not.
I predict the shoulderpads afterwards to be HUGE!
Ummm EQ is actually having a bit of a resurgence right now. SOE is releasing expansion 17 (18?) soon and a lot of old players (self included) have gone back to the progression servers to play the game the way it used to be played 10 years ago. No it's not the shining beacon that it was pre-WoW, but I still think it has more to offer than WoW's candy cart mentality.
They will be making raids with all the big bad guys they have, once all are death WoW will close for good.
How long will Deathchin stay down?
Here is my opinion:
11 ~ 12 Million subscribers can't be wrong.
All the people who say that WoW has lost X or needs Y or generally needs to suit their needs and wants needs to stop and realize something: Not everybody plays the way you do nor have been in WoW as long as you. I only have the BC and only one toon is at 49. So all this bawwing about level 85 or what can or cannot be done with X expantions is things I have not experienced yet...
...Along with the rest of the noobs that come in and out of WoW daily. So, to start adding all these things to cater to the hard-core vets would just be more things to catch up on and only deal with when the time comes. However, whenever myself or others get to that point, there will be even more stuff to catch up on...So it becomes a vicious circle that may fustrate many and only please a few.
Also, there is no such thing as a "perfect" MMO. If you are expecting perfection from WoW, then you are in for some disappointment. Games like WoW or UO have lasted this long because they have something that keeps players coming back. It certainly isn't perfect and many have tried to replicate its formula. Some have even tried to apease those here with their suggestions...
...Tell me, how well are they doing? Any of them as successful as WoW? Any of them as reconized as WoW? Any of them get even close to the 11 to 12 million subscriber mark? No? Then maybe the problem isn't WoW, but your mindset. MMOs do not exist to please everybody's fickled whim. If that were the case, I dread to see how that would look.
Now before anybody brings out the strawman argument about SW:TOR, I am going to burn that down with the fact the game isn't out yet and is an invalid point. Until it comes out, there is no telling how well that game will do or how many will be around one year later... or if the game will be around one year later... There have been countless "WoW Killers" that have been hyped up like TOR and haven't survived. What is to say that TOR will fail in one to two years? Unless you have ESP, there is no guarentee that TOR is the next WoW or will exist in 10 years.
I am sure there are going to be those that say things like "Subscriptions != Sucess". I agree that is true... Ultima Online is still around 14 years after launch and doesn't have the numbers that WoW has. Neither does Everquest... and that is still around. WoW may have lost 1 million subscribers but has gained many more thanks in part to the new trial.
So for those who still wish to rag on WoW, I say this: Nobody is forcing you to play WoW. You are free to leave to another MMO. Feel free to defend your MMO but if all your argument is "BAWWWW I am at level 85 and the game isn't catering to my wants!!", then maybe you need to grow up.
There is a big difference between history or elections and subscribers:
11 million voters can't up and change their vote half way through a term. 12 million people in history can't change the history by changing their mind.
If what you say is true, then 11 ~ 12 million people can't change how WoW operates. The reason there hasn't been enough of whatever people baww about here is because, for whatever reason, people are still playing WoW regardless of it's problems. People gripe and complain, but if it really was that bad then why hasn't subs dropped below 10 million?
Point is: As long as people keep complaining but keep playing and paying, what motivation does Blizzard have to change? As far as they see: there isn't much of a problem if >9 or 10 Million are paying for subs. As long as there isn't a significant drop, the "rinse and repeat" will continue because for whatever reason: It is working.
There isn't an easy solution to all that ails MMOs. WoW included. People whine about PvP and that there needs to be more PvP in WoW... Well, not everybody likes PvP. Not everybody goes into PvP servers... On the same side of the token: Not everybody likes PvE or RP or... or... or.. The point is: People are going to play one way or another and you can't please everybody. For some reason, WoW has managed to last this long despite its issues.
That is not to say that WoW is invincible. Personally, I want to see TOR and what it has to offer. If it does well, maybe it will put a fire under Blizzard's butt to improve on the game. However, so far nothing has come close. Nothing has pulled down WoW's numbers enough for Blizzard to sit up and take notice much less worry.
Does that mean SWTOR is doomed? No, and I don't have ESP either so I really don't know if it will hurt or help WoW. Frankly, I do want to see TOR do well, despite it being a slave to EA. However to say "SWTOR iz gunna kick WoWz arse!! LOL" before the game is even out is meaningless not to mention speculative (and childish if said in that way). If TOR or another MMO does well, maybe it will cause Blizzard to reevaluate what they are doing...
Untill then, what do they care? They certainly don't read this forum and they got 11 million or so subscribers...
I'll let your logic professor explain why argumentum ad numerum is a primary fallacy.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Let me give you a simple formula to understand the issue better:
(11 Million Subs * $14.99) + Hardly Any Competition + No Threat From Other MMO Games = $164,890,000 per month reasons why they don't have to change.
That of course is an estimate and it goes without saying that number isn't accurate due to the fact not every sub is a monthly paying customer or take into account the actual sub number.
The point? You don't get that many players or subscribers by doing a sub-standard game.
Does that mean they are free to pull a George Lucas and mess with it to the point where it is a garbage game? Absolutely not. As I keep saying: WoW isn't perfect. However some (not all) of the arguments about it are moot because they are based on people's play style or preference.
Do I think that WoW is the End All/Say all MMO? Absolutely not. However, I do think if a MMO wants to be the next king, it has a lot of work cut out for it. Also, I do agree there is a lot that Blizzard need to do and quite a bit they need not do. However for somebody to dismiss WoW's influence because of speculation and personal opinion is an even bigger fallacy than mine...
So if you want to see WoW change or better yet have another MMO be the influential game then convince those playing WoW to quit or play another MMO. Otherwise, Blizzard won't improve on their game and have another $164,890,000 reasons to keep with the status quo. I personally want to see SWTOR do well becuase it is SW and was disappointed in SWG. However there is no guarentee written anywhere that it will nor is it written in stone that it will kill or harm WoW.
If you really think 11 million ppl are paying 14.99$ every month as subscription in WoW....you know nothing!
Most of their "subscribers" numbers come from Asia....and there they pay a lot less...since they only play for hours played....
So that 11million subscribers shit is nothing more than that....(bull) shit.
Dude. Chill.
First you obviously missed a very important part when I said:
Secondly: Do you have any figures that state where all the subs are from?
Unless you provide proof, it is just more speculation and opinion...
Third: What difference does it make where the subs are from? None in my book. 11 to 12 million is still 11 to 12 million. That is a fact, not opinion. Even if 10 million are Asian, all it means is that they dig the game.
So feel free to think and feel anyway you want. I still stand firm that any new MMO will have its work cut out for it. Also, if anybody wants to see change done to any MMO, then they need to speak in ways other than coming on here and bawwing about it.
Fanboism in this thread has rendered it impossible to tolerate reading, repetitive, and boring. Like game like fan, I suppose.
Every time WoW releases something new I used to consider going back, but then I realized that it's all just re-hashed previous stuff or things stolen from other games (like the banking system and guild leveling, among other things). Each time something new came out I used to go back....15 dollars here, 15 dollars there....until I realized I was just throwing money at them for what? Nothing. I wasn't going to play, there wasn't going to be any feeling of newness to it all, and I was ultimately going to just be pissed. So....I quit giving Blizzard money.
What Blizzard does well is rinse and repeat. And they are GOOD at it. And if you don't mind the repetitive nature of it all, I suppose it could be fun for you. Not for me. If I'm going to give money to a game company I'm going to believe they care about their game and their players....neither of which Blizzard seems to care for much. Blizzard cares about money. They care JUST ENOUGH about their game to keep it going for MONEY and nothing else. If they can't care enough to make some non-repetitive content for ME (and the other million players that would like that)....I don't care enough about THEM to give them money, even if 11 million people want to.....I don't have to be dim-witted and do it because THEY do. lol
Fuck Blizzard and fuck WoW and D3 and Titan. Sometimes you just have all you can take of a company, and I've reached that place. I feel about Blizzard the way some people feel about SoE.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Rock on
Just like McDonalds cares about your health.
It's all about the buck and nothing else, keep the treadmill going and going and going and goi.......
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
There are many people who play the game at pre-level caps and run those raids all the time. There are also pug'ing old-school raids ALL THE TIME for the raider Achieve. Because you can't do the raids isn't because Blizzard is keepin ya down, it's because you don't try to do them. How many times does Blizzard nerf-bat at-level raids so that others can enjoy them? ALL THE TIME, at every release of another teir. It's one of the reasons the LFRaid tool will be successful.
Seriously people, everyone bitches and complains that everything is SO easy in WoW and it's SO dumbed down then hypocritically complain that raiding is too hard or takes to long.
Some things in PvE need to be challanging and take hours to progress, it's how MMO's keep you playing.
So Blizzard finally copped GW/Aion's weapon skinning system for WoW. They're getting slow... usually they blatantly steal good ideas way faster than this.
I didn't notice any changes but I'm a PVP player. The last few lines of the essay, say it all. I too wanna slap a developer.