I think the game will end up retaining 1 million subs, which I would say is a mediocre success.
Though burn-out/boredom is a big risk (same endgame options as WoW), I think people are more likely to stick to this game because of the storyline. It helps you to bond more with your character, which increases retention.
Having played it , biggest fail in mmo history. Everyone will be dissapointed with thsi game but the utmost diehards.
It's ok Rift fanboy, we know your scared that the Rift population is about to die when this game comes out.
Hey hey now I am the only real Rift fanboi here! Let me put it like this. It looks like a mmorpg and he quest are interesting to watch sometimes with the non buggy ones which can be fixed, but these wild claims of 4mil subs on the first day is not happening.
There are things missing from this game that WoW fans and Rift fans would rage over hard. Addons, x-server lfg and war fronts, swimming
Yesterday I found out it has no day night cycles and now I read no addons and no swimming! WTH are they doing? Are they retards or something?
No joke and no trolling, I'm just sad how they seem to screw it all up by being so damn stupid.
The funny thing is, if you are going to copy a games gameplay and features then you better do it right and do it better. That is what WoW did. Obviously SWTOR is NOT doing that, despite their choice to copy another game. So why would someone play SWTOR? Its new and its star wars? Haha, that has longevity written all over it huh?
And there we have it folks, SWTOR isn't a copy of WoW. Finally people are starting to understand. Theres no swimming because theres no swimming content. Theres no addons because addons should stay in WoW for the complainers who need to min/max and use DPS meters and so on. Theres day and night in the areas where there needs to be for aesthetic effect, (and besides, planets wiith multiple suns and moons, not really much of a day/night cycle on some planets anyways.)
This game isn't WoW, and those that have been expecting it to be, should stick with WoW. This game is a masterpiece, and a step forward on just about everything in the sense of the traditional MMO genre. It caters to what it has content for and rids itself of the excess as you should do when launching a game of this magnitude.
in the end it comes down to two major factors: 1) how big is the marketing budget and can they reach new customers, who didn't played a client based mmorpg yet and 2) how bugfree, polished and fun to play sw:tor will be. and because i only can speculate about both factors i will not throw in some numbers out of the air.
And there we have it folks, SWTOR isn't a copy of WoW. Finally people are starting to understand. Theres no swimming because theres no swimming content. Theres no addons because addons should stay in WoW for the complainers who need to min/max and use DPS meters and so on. Theres day and night in the areas where there needs to be for aesthetic effect, (and besides, planets wiith multiple suns and moons, not really much of a day/night cycle on some planets anyways.)
This game isn't WoW, and those that have been expecting it to be, should stick with WoW. This game is a masterpiece, and a step forward on just about everything in the sense of the traditional MMO genre. It caters to what it has content for and rids itself of the excess as you should do when launching a game of this magnitude.
Lol... Add-ons was probably one of the only contributions WoW made to the genre, and you are dismissing it. Why do WoW add-ons revolve around DPS meters? Because WoW is a game about grinding gear. Add-ons could be helpful to any MMO though, not just ones based heavily on DPS.
Add-ons are probably the only place that WoW really opened itself up to allow the community to express creativity and make a contribution to the game that can expand the game into something more enjoyable and complex. It is a pretty big deal, and SWTOR will be worse off without it.
Also, I remember hearing about SWTOR supporting add-ons, so I guess they scrapped this somewhere into development yes? I know they scrapped a few things but I didn't know add-ons were among them. I think they were just mentioned in passing before; maybe it was never a guaranteed plan.
PS: Almost every preview of this MMO so far has talked about how much like WoW it is, even the developers themselves admit it.
And there we have it folks, SWTOR isn't a copy of WoW. Finally people are starting to understand. Theres no swimming because theres no swimming content. Theres no addons because addons should stay in WoW for the complainers who need to min/max and use DPS meters and so on. Theres day and night in the areas where there needs to be for aesthetic effect, (and besides, planets wiith multiple suns and moons, not really much of a day/night cycle on some planets anyways.)
This game isn't WoW, and those that have been expecting it to be, should stick with WoW. This game is a masterpiece, and a step forward on just about everything in the sense of the traditional MMO genre. It caters to what it has content for and rids itself of the excess as you should do when launching a game of this magnitude.
Lol... Add-ons was probably one of the only contributions WoW made to the genre, and you are dismissing it. Why do WoW add-ons revolve around DPS meters? Because WoW is a game about grinding gear. Add-ons could be helpful to any MMO though, not just ones based heavily on DPS.
Add-ons are probably the only place that WoW really opened itself up to allow the community to express creativity and make a contribution to the game that can expand the game into something more enjoyable and complex. It is a pretty big deal, and SWTOR will be worse off without it.
Also, I remember hearing about SWTOR supporting add-ons, so I guess they scrapped this somewhere into development yes? I know they scrapped a few things but I didn't know add-ons were among them. I think they were just mentioned in passing before; maybe it was never a guaranteed plan.
PS: Almost every preview of this MMO so far has talked about how much like WoW it is, even the developers themselves admit it.
While it has similarities, MOST mmos have at least some similarities to WoW. The ones furthest away are sandbox titles, and most of those aren' successful enough to even mention. Hybridized versions and other themeparks can be picked after point for point, even with upcoming games. This game is an evolution of the themepark genre, it isn't meant to be played with the WoW mentality of rush to end game and grind, while it will cater to end game players as well, the journey will be much more interested in many more ways than just 1 large overarching story.
While it has similarities, MOST mmos have at least some similarities to WoW. The ones furthest away are sandbox titles, and most of those aren' successful enough to even mention. Hybridized versions and other themeparks can be picked after point for point, even with upcoming games. This game is an evolution of the themepark genre, it isn't meant to be played with the WoW mentality of rush to end game and grind, while it will cater to end game players as well, the journey will be much more interested in many more ways than just 1 large overarching story.
Some similarities = total understatement.
The controls and gameplay are identical, including the PvP features, quest progression, 2 faction system. The only other MMO that is that much like WoW is Rift.
Can you name another? Maybe there is one but I can't think of any at the moment. LOTRO comes to mind but it definitely was not as much like WoW as Rift or SWTOR seems to be playing out.
And I don't think Bioware is dumb enough to think that they can tell the playerbase "this game isn't meant to be played as a rush to end game gear and level". It is a game with a 99% combat focus, complete with PvP. It will be just as much of a game based on grind as WoW, and I hope Bioware isn't going into it thinking otherwise or they will be in huge trouble. If you think it will be something aside from this, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If Bioware did a REALLY good job on these cutscenes then most players will not click through them, but that is about it, its still going to be a gear griding game.
While it has similarities, MOST mmos have at least some similarities to WoW. The ones furthest away are sandbox titles, and most of those aren' successful enough to even mention. Hybridized versions and other themeparks can be picked after point for point, even with upcoming games. This game is an evolution of the themepark genre, it isn't meant to be played with the WoW mentality of rush to end game and grind, while it will cater to end game players as well, the journey will be much more interested in many more ways than just 1 large overarching story.
Some similarities = total understatement.
The controls and gameplay are identical, including the PvP features, quest progression, 2 faction system. The only other MMO that is that much like WoW is Rift.
Can you name another? Maybe there is one but I can't think of any at the moment. LOTRO comes to mind but it definitely was not as much like WoW as Rift or SWTOR seems to be playing out.
And I don't think Bioware is dumb enough to think that they can tell the playerbase "this game isn't meant to be played as a rush to end game gear and level". It is a game with a 99% combat focus, complete with PvP. It will be just as much of a game based on grind as WoW, and I hope Bioware isn't going into it thinking otherwise or they will be in huge trouble. If you think it will be something aside from this, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If Bioware did a REALLY good job on these cutscenes then most players will not click through them, but that is about it, its still going to be a gear griding game.
I'm not disappointed at all with the game. It has different ways for progression, it has a 2 faction system (lots of games do) it has PvP features (lol, which MMOs nowadays don't, even fallen earth has similar features to WoW now, along with WAR, EQ2, name some games that don't) Controls and gameplay? Name some MMOs that don't have similar controls and gameplay as WoW? You move with wasd, you hit hotkeys for skills. SWTOR doesn't have an auto attack, it utilizes a cover system, and other such things I feel are important but can't go into due to an NDA.
It has more than just a combat focus as well, as you have stories to follow, which gives you options, possibly in the non combat sector as well, crafting and a mission skills system, social point gathering, and the space game, which is combat focused, but still different from the run of the mill combat. You won't have to deal with grinding for gear as much, as the gear system has a great upgradeable mod system BioWare recently outlined in one of there friday updates. You can upgrade your gear and the better gear just has more slots, so lower level gear, or crafted gear will be viable for longer as you level up, and PvP gear at its MAX is only 10 % better for PvP then comparable PvE gear.
All this is common knowledge, nothing here breaks the NDA, but what lies behind the NDA is even more compelling.
Considering that the majority of WoW subscribers do not participate in raiding, I find your argurment to be pointless. In any game that has raiding as an end game focus, you'll find casuals playing all of the rest of the content and happy to do so for long periods of time. This game isn't targeted at hardcores. It may offer raid content, but it's not the focus and it shouldn't be. If they want to retain the real money, then they need to keep up their current formula and support it after release.
Then why make end game pve all about raiding not only by giving best items from raids but also linking crafting to raiding ?Also i remember some bioware developer saying that they will try to make people like raiding etc ,even their idea of a planet for solo play in end game sounds bad,like to keep those dirty "raid haters " separate from rest of the players - do they also have only one planet for raiders ?So no,SW TOR is not a casual game or you will have a lot more social activities (less "heroic" proffesions,real crafting) and a lot less "chase the epics" for the so called "hardcore".
And about casuals and non raiders being happy to be second class citizens again ,Blizzard made that mistake too with Cataclyms and lost more than 1 million subscribers so i doubt it will work better for Bioware.
Eh you might want to check your facts there buddy, it said that WoW had 2.5 million in NA and another 2 million in Europe which counts as the west, and that was listed at when WoW was around 10 million subscriptions, thats hardly at its peak when they released numbers recently totalling nearly 12 million. We've been a a recession for a while yet, WoW is still rolling in the subscription numbers, and thats still a small subset of the entire MMO population. BioWare games still sell in the 3- 5 million copy range cross platform over a set amount of months. Even analysts predicted SWTOR could easily reach the 3 million mark in the most recent article.. UP from the 2 million they originally stated.
I'm sure we'll get along in game without you, but, judging from how often you post in the SWTOR threads, love it or hate it, you'll end up buying it anyways. See you in game!
Ah my bad I did not realize you meant Europe as well, I though you just meant North America, I concede your point 3 to 5 million in North America and Europe is a possibility.
As for the recession and Wow is still rolling on with subscription numbers, well they did almost lose a million in less than a year and from what I read most of that was in NA and Europe. How much was caused by the recession is anyone’s guess but I am betting it is not helping attract new clients.
As for me buying it, there is a possibility since I am a Star Wars nerd and I have been since I was 5. Here is the thing though if they do not offer any more options then pay to play I will not go past the free month, I will not rent a game from a developer when I can buy others out right. I do not have that much game time anymore, so a buy to play game can last me months, so I will never spend as much on buy to play games as I would paying for a subscription for a year. So unless Bioware provides more options in the future the most they are ever going to get from me is a box purchase, in essence enforcing pay to play has cost them a customer.
Eh you might want to check your facts there buddy, it said that WoW had 2.5 million in NA and another 2 million in Europe which counts as the west, and that was listed at when WoW was around 10 million subscriptions, thats hardly at its peak when they released numbers recently totalling nearly 12 million. We've been a a recession for a while yet, WoW is still rolling in the subscription numbers, and thats still a small subset of the entire MMO population. BioWare games still sell in the 3- 5 million copy range cross platform over a set amount of months. Even analysts predicted SWTOR could easily reach the 3 million mark in the most recent article.. UP from the 2 million they originally stated.
I'm sure we'll get along in game without you, but, judging from how often you post in the SWTOR threads, love it or hate it, you'll end up buying it anyways. See you in game!
Ah my bad I did not realize you meant Europe as well, I though you just meant North America, I concede your point 3 to 5 million in North America and Europe is a possibility.
As for the recession and Wow is still rolling on with subscription numbers, well they did almost lose a million in less than a year and from what I read most of that was in NA and Europe. How much was caused by the recession is anyone’s guess but I am betting it is not helping attract new clients.
As for me buying it, there is a possibility since I am a Star Wars nerd and I have been since I was 5. Here is the thing though if they do not offer any more options then pay to play I will not go past the free month, I will not rent a game from a developer when I can buy others out right. I do not have that much game time anymore, so a buy to play game can last me months, so I will never spend as much on buy to play games as I would paying for a subscription for a year. So unless Bioware provides more options in the future the most they are ever going to get from me is a box purchase, in essence enforcing pay to play has cost them a customer.
I did hear WoW is losing subscriptions, which is a good thing in my opinion, as we could use those subscriptions and that revenue elsewhere, even if it doesn't make its way to SWTOR.
As for renting the game, some people don't like subscriptions, to that I can understand, but the way I see it: I tip a waiter anywhere from 8 - 12 dollars on a meal, when all they do is port the food from the kitchen to my table. Honestly the service is usually never good enough to receive the 15 - 20 percent I leave them, but its been a standard practice people do.
For 15 dollars a month, its like tipping the developers for giving me something I'm enjoying playing. Would I like it to be free? Yes. Yes I would, anyone who says they wouldn't like to just buy the box and play forever with no restrictions is a liar and a cheat,.... and a tramp. However, if I can spare some extra cash for mediocre service at a general food establishment, I could pony up some cash to give the guys who create my entertainment preference that month.
Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.
It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.
It is funny this one kinda minor aspect of the game is being touted as a major selling point. I guess outside of voiceovers and companions there really isn't anything Bioware can point to that won't remind people of WoW in space.
Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.
It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.
Name me a MMO with full voiceovers
MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story.
I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.
MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story.
I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.
Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.
It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.
Name me a MMO with full voiceovers
MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story.
I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.
So you already pay 15 dollars for another MMO right? And since you have time to play one game then you are already not playing your console games right? Why are you posting on this board then? Because judging from your first paragraphs you play more than one game already. I thought time was limited for you. Am i right internet?
Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.
It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.
Name me a MMO with full voiceovers
MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story.
I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.
So you already pay 15 dollars for another MMO right? And since you have time to play one game then you are already not playing your console games right? Why are you posting on this board then? Because judging from your first paragraphs you play more than one game already. I thought time was limited for you. Am i right internet?
I'm not subscribing to any MMO right now. I do play one on and off now, Lotro, but not a subscriber though.
I saw TOR appearing on gaming blogs alot and want to check it out, but all I saw is people talking about its voice-over and story which I thought are so basic in RPGs.
What about group contents? Anything special in group contents? It's a MMO afterall. Frankly speaking, I'm pretty disaapointed at what's being presented to the customers if the game turns out good.
Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.
It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.
Name me a MMO with full voiceovers
MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story.
I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.
So you already pay 15 dollars for another MMO right? And since you have time to play one game then you are already not playing your console games right? Why are you posting on this board then? Because judging from your first paragraphs you play more than one game already. I thought time was limited for you. Am i right internet?
I'm not subscribing to any MMO right now. I do play one on and off now, Lotro, but not a subscriber though.
I saw TOR appearing on gaming blogs alot and want to check it out, but all I saw is people talking about its voice-over and story which I thought are so basic in RPGs.
What about group contents? Anything special in group contents? It's a MMO afterall. Frankly speaking, I'm pretty disaapointed at what's being presented to the customers if the game turns out good.
For pve there will be:
flashpoints: 4 man/companion dungeons
operations: 12-16-20 man dungeons (as far as I've heared)
heroic quests: harder, group quest(lines) out in the open world, worldbosses, etc
For pvp:
warzones (instanced pvp)
world pvp and pvp hotspots on pvp server
scenario based world pvp with territory control on Illum on all servers
Best to start reading at the official site though, their general forum has a sticky with pretty much all information on Swtor so far.
Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.
It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.
Name me a MMO with full voiceovers
MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story.
I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.
Your post is very confusing. You have time for only one MMO and yet you don't want give up on your consoles games and other MMOS? that is a big contradiction there.
In your own words MMO or not this is still a game, so how come you can can play all other consoles and MMOS but shelling out 15 bucks for SWTOR is such a big deal?
The game will launch polished, smooth, and with relative smoothness. Initial box sales will be a record breaker just as WAR, and STO were, and then just like AoC, WAR, STO, and even Rift subs will start to taper off, then go south.
I forsee 'ding 50, now what' threads pop up as players race through to end game, and only then see there was a story that they were supposed to play to delay their progress. Yes I know the die hard fanboi's will flood through with "But you have 1,600 hours of story" Not realizing that means you play both factions, and all 4 classes per side. Not a popular option to many of the player base, IMO.
Developers need to realize if we the players want to play WoW, we will play WoW!
However, I do not feel this game will crash and burn like sub-par games released recently aka: APB, STO. It will prolly have a small dedicated fan base similar to Rift. Not huge, and when you look at the big picture of Money invested in the project, over hype, and potential to be a 'WoW Killer' SW:tOR will miss the lofty goal it set to achieve.
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested. I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running).
But I don't think it's going to crash and burn. A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on. I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people: It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested. I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running).
But I don't think it's going to crash and burn. A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on. I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people: It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.
Almost all MMORPGs have made a profit. If they invest $100,000,000, and they have 2,000,000 pre-orders, they will have made $120,000,000 off of the guinea pigs alone. That may be before taxes, but that isn't counting sales after launch, any subscriptions, collectors boxes, memorabilia, etc.
With the proper marketing campaign, they could make money off of an MMOG where you create a character on MMORPG.com and troll the forums all day.
I vote disapointing. It would be a moderate success to me but I feel its being hyped WAY WAY WAY to much. Over-hype can potentially kill good games. As much as I think its dumb, i still feel it will end up being a decent game. Whether that will be enough to save it after being hyped up so much? We will have to wait and see.
I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested. I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running).
But I don't think it's going to crash and burn. A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on. I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people: It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.
Almost all MMORPGs have made a profit. If they invest $100,000,000, and they have 2,000,000 pre-orders, they will have made $120,000,000 off of the guinea pigs alone. That may be before taxes, but that isn't counting sales after launch, any subscriptions, collectors boxes, memorabilia, etc.
With the proper marketing campaign, they could make money off of an MMOG where you create a character on MMORPG.com and troll the forums all day.
He didn't say it wasn't going to earn a profit... I don't think he is trolling. He said it was going to do pretty decent, so it is unfair to say he is a troll (based on this post), and hammer him for a little thing he said (which wasn't that bad). How silly...
I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested. I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running).
But I don't think it's going to crash and burn. A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on. I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people: It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.
Almost all MMORPGs have made a profit. If they invest $100,000,000, and they have 2,000,000 pre-orders, they will have made $120,000,000 off of the guinea pigs alone. That may be before taxes, but that isn't counting sales after launch, any subscriptions, collectors boxes, memorabilia, etc.
With the proper marketing campaign, they could make money off of an MMOG where you create a character on MMORPG.com and troll the forums all day.
He didn't say it wasn't going to earn a profit... I don't think he is trolling. He said it was going to do pretty decent, so it is unfair to say he is a troll (based on this post), and hammer him for a little thing he said (which wasn't that bad). How silly...
That tidbit at the end was meant as a jab at the entire community, including myself.
Comments
I think the game will end up retaining 1 million subs, which I would say is a mediocre success.
Though burn-out/boredom is a big risk (same endgame options as WoW), I think people are more likely to stick to this game because of the storyline. It helps you to bond more with your character, which increases retention.
And there we have it folks, SWTOR isn't a copy of WoW. Finally people are starting to understand. Theres no swimming because theres no swimming content. Theres no addons because addons should stay in WoW for the complainers who need to min/max and use DPS meters and so on. Theres day and night in the areas where there needs to be for aesthetic effect, (and besides, planets wiith multiple suns and moons, not really much of a day/night cycle on some planets anyways.)
This game isn't WoW, and those that have been expecting it to be, should stick with WoW. This game is a masterpiece, and a step forward on just about everything in the sense of the traditional MMO genre. It caters to what it has content for and rids itself of the excess as you should do when launching a game of this magnitude.
in the end it comes down to two major factors: 1) how big is the marketing budget and can they reach new customers, who didn't played a client based mmorpg yet and 2) how bugfree, polished and fun to play sw:tor will be. and because i only can speculate about both factors i will not throw in some numbers out of the air.
Lol... Add-ons was probably one of the only contributions WoW made to the genre, and you are dismissing it. Why do WoW add-ons revolve around DPS meters? Because WoW is a game about grinding gear. Add-ons could be helpful to any MMO though, not just ones based heavily on DPS.
Add-ons are probably the only place that WoW really opened itself up to allow the community to express creativity and make a contribution to the game that can expand the game into something more enjoyable and complex. It is a pretty big deal, and SWTOR will be worse off without it.
Also, I remember hearing about SWTOR supporting add-ons, so I guess they scrapped this somewhere into development yes? I know they scrapped a few things but I didn't know add-ons were among them. I think they were just mentioned in passing before; maybe it was never a guaranteed plan.
PS: Almost every preview of this MMO so far has talked about how much like WoW it is, even the developers themselves admit it.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
While it has similarities, MOST mmos have at least some similarities to WoW. The ones furthest away are sandbox titles, and most of those aren' successful enough to even mention. Hybridized versions and other themeparks can be picked after point for point, even with upcoming games. This game is an evolution of the themepark genre, it isn't meant to be played with the WoW mentality of rush to end game and grind, while it will cater to end game players as well, the journey will be much more interested in many more ways than just 1 large overarching story.
Some similarities = total understatement.
The controls and gameplay are identical, including the PvP features, quest progression, 2 faction system. The only other MMO that is that much like WoW is Rift.
Can you name another? Maybe there is one but I can't think of any at the moment. LOTRO comes to mind but it definitely was not as much like WoW as Rift or SWTOR seems to be playing out.
And I don't think Bioware is dumb enough to think that they can tell the playerbase "this game isn't meant to be played as a rush to end game gear and level". It is a game with a 99% combat focus, complete with PvP. It will be just as much of a game based on grind as WoW, and I hope Bioware isn't going into it thinking otherwise or they will be in huge trouble. If you think it will be something aside from this, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If Bioware did a REALLY good job on these cutscenes then most players will not click through them, but that is about it, its still going to be a gear griding game.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
I'm not disappointed at all with the game. It has different ways for progression, it has a 2 faction system (lots of games do) it has PvP features (lol, which MMOs nowadays don't, even fallen earth has similar features to WoW now, along with WAR, EQ2, name some games that don't) Controls and gameplay? Name some MMOs that don't have similar controls and gameplay as WoW? You move with wasd, you hit hotkeys for skills. SWTOR doesn't have an auto attack, it utilizes a cover system, and other such things I feel are important but can't go into due to an NDA.
It has more than just a combat focus as well, as you have stories to follow, which gives you options, possibly in the non combat sector as well, crafting and a mission skills system, social point gathering, and the space game, which is combat focused, but still different from the run of the mill combat. You won't have to deal with grinding for gear as much, as the gear system has a great upgradeable mod system BioWare recently outlined in one of there friday updates. You can upgrade your gear and the better gear just has more slots, so lower level gear, or crafted gear will be viable for longer as you level up, and PvP gear at its MAX is only 10 % better for PvP then comparable PvE gear.
All this is common knowledge, nothing here breaks the NDA, but what lies behind the NDA is even more compelling.
Then why make end game pve all about raiding not only by giving best items from raids but also linking crafting to raiding ?Also i remember some bioware developer saying that they will try to make people like raiding etc ,even their idea of a planet for solo play in end game sounds bad,like to keep those dirty "raid haters " separate from rest of the players - do they also have only one planet for raiders ?So no,SW TOR is not a casual game or you will have a lot more social activities (less "heroic" proffesions,real crafting) and a lot less "chase the epics" for the so called "hardcore".
And about casuals and non raiders being happy to be second class citizens again ,Blizzard made that mistake too with Cataclyms and lost more than 1 million subscribers so i doubt it will work better for Bioware.
Ah my bad I did not realize you meant Europe as well, I though you just meant North America, I concede your point 3 to 5 million in North America and Europe is a possibility.
As for the recession and Wow is still rolling on with subscription numbers, well they did almost lose a million in less than a year and from what I read most of that was in NA and Europe. How much was caused by the recession is anyone’s guess but I am betting it is not helping attract new clients.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2293-WoW-Loses-600k-Subscribers-Diablo-3-Beta-Q3-2011-Arena-Passe-Blue-Posts
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2400-WoW-Lost-300k-Subscribers-Patch-4.3-this-year-Blizzcon-2011-Tickets-Blue-Posts
http://www.gamesradar.com/world-of-warcraft-loses-nearly-1-million-subscribers-in-less-than-a-year/
As for me buying it, there is a possibility since I am a Star Wars nerd and I have been since I was 5. Here is the thing though if they do not offer any more options then pay to play I will not go past the free month, I will not rent a game from a developer when I can buy others out right. I do not have that much game time anymore, so a buy to play game can last me months, so I will never spend as much on buy to play games as I would paying for a subscription for a year. So unless Bioware provides more options in the future the most they are ever going to get from me is a box purchase, in essence enforcing pay to play has cost them a customer.
I did hear WoW is losing subscriptions, which is a good thing in my opinion, as we could use those subscriptions and that revenue elsewhere, even if it doesn't make its way to SWTOR.
As for renting the game, some people don't like subscriptions, to that I can understand, but the way I see it: I tip a waiter anywhere from 8 - 12 dollars on a meal, when all they do is port the food from the kitchen to my table. Honestly the service is usually never good enough to receive the 15 - 20 percent I leave them, but its been a standard practice people do.
For 15 dollars a month, its like tipping the developers for giving me something I'm enjoying playing. Would I like it to be free? Yes. Yes I would, anyone who says they wouldn't like to just buy the box and play forever with no restrictions is a liar and a cheat,.... and a tramp. However, if I can spare some extra cash for mediocre service at a general food establishment, I could pony up some cash to give the guys who create my entertainment preference that month.
Why are we still talking about voice-over like it's an unexplored territory?? My 4-year old PSP has many games with full voice-over.
It's like listing '3D environment' as the game's selling point. This is going to be 2012, not 2002.
Name me a MMO with full voiceovers
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
It is funny this one kinda minor aspect of the game is being touted as a major selling point. I guess outside of voiceovers and companions there really isn't anything Bioware can point to that won't remind people of WoW in space.
MMO or not, this is a game. If it's gonna convince me to shell out $15 every month on top of my time and give up all my console games and other MMOs, it should have something unique that other games don't have. NOT something like voice-over and eh...story.
I'm not sure about you guys, I only have time to play ONE game. And i can choose it from my PC, PS3, PSP, Wii and other MMOs.
Nm. misread post
So you already pay 15 dollars for another MMO right? And since you have time to play one game then you are already not playing your console games right? Why are you posting on this board then? Because judging from your first paragraphs you play more than one game already. I thought time was limited for you. Am i right internet?
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
I'm not subscribing to any MMO right now. I do play one on and off now, Lotro, but not a subscriber though.
I saw TOR appearing on gaming blogs alot and want to check it out, but all I saw is people talking about its voice-over and story which I thought are so basic in RPGs.
What about group contents? Anything special in group contents? It's a MMO afterall. Frankly speaking, I'm pretty disaapointed at what's being presented to the customers if the game turns out good.
For pve there will be:
flashpoints: 4 man/companion dungeons
operations: 12-16-20 man dungeons (as far as I've heared)
heroic quests: harder, group quest(lines) out in the open world, worldbosses, etc
For pvp:
warzones (instanced pvp)
world pvp and pvp hotspots on pvp server
scenario based world pvp with territory control on Illum on all servers
Best to start reading at the official site though, their general forum has a sticky with pretty much all information on Swtor so far.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Your post is very confusing. You have time for only one MMO and yet you don't want give up on your consoles games and other MMOS? that is a big contradiction there.
In your own words MMO or not this is still a game, so how come you can can play all other consoles and MMOS but shelling out 15 bucks for SWTOR is such a big deal?
I voted dissapointing.
The game will launch polished, smooth, and with relative smoothness. Initial box sales will be a record breaker just as WAR, and STO were, and then just like AoC, WAR, STO, and even Rift subs will start to taper off, then go south.
I forsee 'ding 50, now what' threads pop up as players race through to end game, and only then see there was a story that they were supposed to play to delay their progress. Yes I know the die hard fanboi's will flood through with "But you have 1,600 hours of story" Not realizing that means you play both factions, and all 4 classes per side. Not a popular option to many of the player base, IMO.
Developers need to realize if we the players want to play WoW, we will play WoW!
However, I do not feel this game will crash and burn like sub-par games released recently aka: APB, STO. It will prolly have a small dedicated fan base similar to Rift. Not huge, and when you look at the big picture of Money invested in the project, over hype, and potential to be a 'WoW Killer' SW:tOR will miss the lofty goal it set to achieve.
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
I think this game will turn an acceptable profit for everyone invested. I don't think it's going to revolutionize gaming, bring in and retain millions of brand new players or beat WoW's successful run (a run that is still running).
But I don't think it's going to crash and burn. A lot of Rift/WoW/freemium game X malcontents are going to buy the box and sub for a few months, and a few of those will no doubt stick around a year or even more, meanwhile, expansions and the surrounding advertising will bring new players in after launch and bring players back as time goes on. I think it may do better than Rift overall, so I'm breaking out my crystal ball and calling it, people: It's going to fit somewhere in between WoW and Rift on the final profit tally.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Almost all MMORPGs have made a profit. If they invest $100,000,000, and they have 2,000,000 pre-orders, they will have made $120,000,000 off of the guinea pigs alone. That may be before taxes, but that isn't counting sales after launch, any subscriptions, collectors boxes, memorabilia, etc.
With the proper marketing campaign, they could make money off of an MMOG where you create a character on MMORPG.com and troll the forums all day.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
I vote disapointing. It would be a moderate success to me but I feel its being hyped WAY WAY WAY to much. Over-hype can potentially kill good games. As much as I think its dumb, i still feel it will end up being a decent game. Whether that will be enough to save it after being hyped up so much? We will have to wait and see.
He didn't say it wasn't going to earn a profit... I don't think he is trolling. He said it was going to do pretty decent, so it is unfair to say he is a troll (based on this post), and hammer him for a little thing he said (which wasn't that bad). How silly...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
That tidbit at the end was meant as a jab at the entire community, including myself.
Sarcasm is not a crime!