Uhh, why is this a thread? If it's in response to a particular post, post it there... if it's NOT a response to a particular post, it sounds like OP is setting up straw men arguments... I'm guessing we're not too concerned about this though.
This thread is a response to the THOUSANDS of post(s), replies and excuses which keep being given regarding SV being incapable of doing anything right.
Every time SV is defended by fanboys the "they are a small team" comes up somewhere... This excuse doesnt work anymore. Maybe in the beginging it was okay but a year and half later with a SMALLER team and pretty much every system in the game unfinished, buggy , placeholder, etc... With no AI or UI fix... With invisible players killing you in combat...With prediction/lag still out of whack....After this long....Noit gunna work anymore as an excuse.
Oh, and where is that "revolutionary breeding system" Dawn was supposed to allw, with real genetics and everything? If its a "small team" that cannot even tie their own shoes, why all the "grand ideas and promises" that still keep coming???
these figures arent accurate in any way, since people dont just buy game time in monthly instalments, some purchase game time every 3 months, 6months etc. But yea 2500 ish sounds about right to me.
picklebeast? which fanboys? MO doesnt have fanboys. They stopped their fanboyish ways 6 mnoths ago or left the game. Hence how you can come on here posting comments that mainly go unchallenged
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
these figures arent accurate in any way, since people dont just buy game time in monthly instalments, some purchase game time every 3 months, 6months etc. But yea 2500 ish sounds about right to me.
picklebeast? which fanboys? MO doesnt have fanboys. They stopped their fanboyish ways 6 mnoths ago or left the game. Hence how you can come on here posting comments that mainly go unchallenged
I hope you arent taking my saying "fanboy" as something I am meaning to include you- I have always stated that while we do not agree on many issues, you are not blind to the problems and are intelectual enough to not buy into all the hype.
Because they have a lot to do and haven't got to it yet. They are working on AI currently and this will be fixed eventually.
The way you don't die as much is by becoming smart and if you are really dying every time you leave town its time to move to a new town or time to get smarter (this may be one in the same thing).
As to answer your last question...
There will be bugs after the next big patch as there were before it. If you are looking for the next new shiny polished game this is not it.
Go play rift or something...
If you want to play a unique game made by a small company and are willing to put up with the bugs that come with it then i welcome you to MO.
AND this....
I didn't bother to read your first post, and I didn't pay much attention to this post. Why? Because you come in with a shitty attitude that just continues to get more and more shitty.
This game is made by a small team, looking at their website, or looking up Henriks forum account and reading the post from start to finish will give you a lot of insight.
Towns get different amount of attention from reds. Meduli is visited by reds more than a few times a day. So is Fabernum. Moh Ki on the otherhand isn't visited as frequently, and when it is, it is usually just a pass by. If mobs are given you trouble, you need to do a few things.
AND this...
Yeah nice post and this pretty much sums it up, I dont think people realise how small a team SV is..
-You participated in this thread I am pulling quotes from...And thats just from one thread posted yesterday... You have to know what I am talking about ..
Edit: Sorry for all the typos, my wireless keyboard is acting like it needs to be wired =P
Uhh, why is this a thread? If it's in response to a particular post, post it there... if it's NOT a response to a particular post, it sounds like OP is setting up straw men arguments... I'm guessing we're not too concerned about this though.
This thread is a response to the THOUSANDS of post(s), replies and excuses which keep being given regarding SV being incapable of doing anything right.
Yeah, you're right that MO's forum on this site is extraordinarily active, so a lot of things get repeated. My question is, if this is in response to a post, why not post it in that thread/those threads? You didn't address this, you just threw some insults at the game like you expect people to go out of their way to refute them. Since the topic's a 'response' - yet an entirely new thread, without referencing any given post as the original subject - the whole thing just seems to me like spamming the forums as another excuse to bait and criticize.
i agree with funkmastd here this thread is weak. It does come across as an atempt to bait unfortunatly there isnt anyone to bait.
those responses are hardly fanboi-ish i mean there is a very big difference between being a fan of the developers and a fan of the actual game, they dont always go hand in hand. What you have here is just varied opinion something you should expect from a variety of posters. Simply put they accept most of MO's short comings and problems. 1 or 2 people might of used the its a small team quote but in reality its simply there as a means to an end. An easy simple way of telling someone unfamiliar to the game that theres alot of work to be done and little developers to actually get it done, something that cannot be argued with. Going into any grave detail on their competenace is not needed in a thread like this.
I do think that many of the posts are quite valid responses, whislt worded a little harshly the truth is if you cant handle pigs and want to rage quit over dying to them bugs or not your troubles and frustratinos are likely just begining. Whilst other posts are constructive and helpful. I guess you jsut shouldnt expect everyone to act the same. Theres certainly some posts that lean more towards fanboi-ism but theres plenty of contructive and negative psots as well.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
so if he had said, the game is buggy and broken blame the devs so just keep subbing? that would of been a better response? truth is if its buggy and broken he might not of paid for a buggy game but thats what he has and theres little he can do about it other than play or not. Usually a buggy broken game is naturally the developers fault jsut because he didnt say so in his sentance doesnt mean some random dude is to blame or he is to blame or the game iteslf. Its usually compeltely obvious who is to blame and so stating the obvious isnt needed. I disagree that is a fanboy post. Its quite possible that poster is angry at the developers and bitter with the community and didnt think through his post or want to go into detail just a simple sentance that tells you how it is.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
so if he had said, the game is buggy and broken blame the devs so just keep subbing? that would of been a better response? truth is if its buggy and broken he might not of paid for a buggy game but thats what he has and theres little he can do about it other than play or not. Usually a buggy broken game is naturally the developers fault jsut because he didnt say so in his sentance doesnt mean some random dude is to blame or he is to blame or the game iteslf. Its usually compeltely obvious who is to blame and so stating the obvious isnt needed. I disagree that is a fanboy post. Its quite possible that poster is angry at the developers and bitter with the community and didnt think through his post or want to go into detail just a simple sentance that tells you how it is.
there's a difference between saying "the game is very buggy, development is slow, promises have been broken but some people still enjoy it for what it is", and saying "SV is a small team, live with it or go play rift".
ofc the first alternative sounds really silly, so I'm not surprised that most MO fans are going for the later one.
so if he had said, the game is buggy and broken blame the devs so just keep subbing? that would of been a better response? truth is if its buggy and broken he might not of paid for a buggy game but thats what he has and theres little he can do about it other than play or not. Usually a buggy broken game is naturally the developers fault jsut because he didnt say so in his sentance doesnt mean some random dude is to blame or he is to blame or the game iteslf. Its usually compeltely obvious who is to blame and so stating the obvious isnt needed. I disagree that is a fanboy post. Its quite possible that poster is angry at the developers and bitter with the community and didnt think through his post or want to go into detail just a simple sentance that tells you how it is.
there's a difference between saying "the game is very buggy, development is slow, promises have been broken but some people still enjoy it for what it is", and saying "SV is a small team, live with it or go play rift".
ofc the first alternative sounds really silly, so I'm not surprised that most MO fans are going for the later one.
Aside from "promises have been broken" what is the difference between the two?
Keep in mind that the difference between "failed to meet my expectations" and "broken promises" is largely subjective.
Aside from excluding "promises have been broken" what is wrong with this statement: The development team is small which limits the pace of development and bug-fixing. Some people enoy it for what it is, and those that don't would be best served by finding a game they do enjoy.
Just because the company is small does not elevate them above others. If they release a product it better damn well be working, no excuses, or they suffer the consequences. Give them a break if you want, your loss as a customer, but if I were to play MO I'd demand a working game.
Just because the company is small does not elevate them above others. If they release a product it better damn well be working, no excuses, or they suffer the consequences. Give them a break if you want, your loss as a customer, but if I were to play MO I'd demand a working game.
You would think that would just be normal. You really shouldn't have to demand anything. This is the only industry I know where half finished crap can be released and there are still consumers who will defend it.
Originally posted by Cyde77 MO is a small team of inexperienced young adults who are in way over their head Notch is one guy, and he made millions on his first game before Mojang formed. Kinda invalidates the fanboy argument.
Minecraft wasn't Notchs first game, and although I believe it is a different Mojang, Wurm always booted up with that name and symbol.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
so if he had said, the game is buggy and broken blame the devs so just keep subbing? that would of been a better response? truth is if its buggy and broken he might not of paid for a buggy game but thats what he has and theres little he can do about it other than play or not. Usually a buggy broken game is naturally the developers fault jsut because he didnt say so in his sentance doesnt mean some random dude is to blame or he is to blame or the game iteslf. Its usually compeltely obvious who is to blame and so stating the obvious isnt needed. I disagree that is a fanboy post. Its quite possible that poster is angry at the developers and bitter with the community and didnt think through his post or want to go into detail just a simple sentance that tells you how it is.
there's a difference between saying "the game is very buggy, development is slow, promises have been broken but some people still enjoy it for what it is", and saying "SV is a small team, live with it or go play rift".
ofc the first alternative sounds really silly, so I'm not surprised that most MO fans are going for the later one.
Aside from "promises have been broken" what is the difference between the two?
Keep in mind that the difference between "failed to meet my expectations" and "broken promises" is largely subjective.
Aside from excluding "promises have been broken" what is wrong with this statement: The development team is small which limits the pace of development and bug-fixing. Some people enoy it for what it is, and those that don't would be best served by finding a game they do enjoy.
the difference is that the first one is honest about the game's shortcomings, while the second one makes up excuses and arrogantly dismisses players who don't accept said excuses.
"go back to WoW", go play rift" seems to be the standard-type answer when people complain about MO being a buggy and unpolished game.
thing is, people don't want WoW or rift, they want what MO is promising, but not delivering.
telling people that they're not hardcore enough just because they expect basic functions to work, will only alienate them further.
Notch most decidedly did not make millions of dollars from Wurm online. He has made millions off of Minecraft (11 million copies registered, 3.5 million purchased)
Both games have interesting gameplay, and offer a very "sandboxy" experience, but in many ways are much simpler than MO. (Graphics being the most obvious) Saying that Starvault would have done better if they had limited their scope is exactly the same as saying the dev team is small.
I just reread my post and didn't like the way I phrased it, so I'll make the same point slightly diffferently.
Saying that MO is too large and complex to for Starvault to develop efficiently and quickly is equivalent to saying that Starvault is too small a team to develop MO efficiently and quickly.
Both Minecraft and Wurm are have systems that are much less complex than in MO, which makes them easier to develop. That is evidence that they made a better match between the scope of the project and the resourcesm but doesn't "invalidate the fanboy argument" as Cyde says. What would invalidate it is a similar indie developer releasing a game of similar scope and complexity. EVE online is the only example of a company of similar size developing a game of similar complexity did alot better than MO and succeeding on a much greater scale. Arguably, even EVE is significantly less complex than MO (spaceships dont have moving parts and it's a whole lot harder to see the errors in calculating postion in a laser fight than in melee) Also, 2003, was a significantly different environment for releasing an MMO,
Starvault bit off more than they can (easily) chew. Fundamentally there are three ways to handle that as someone who wants what they are trying to make. 1)Play the game and put up with the problems along the way, 2)Sit on the sidelines, keep an eye on it's development and do another 2 week trial when you think it might be ready (while keeping an eye on the rest of the field--Darkfall, Xsyon, Perpetuum,Dawntide, etc). 3) Forget about ever playing it and move on.
@Biskop: How does the following statement "make up excuses and arrogantly dismisses players who don't accept said excuses."
The development team is small which limits the pace of development and bug-fixing. Some people enoy it (MO) for what it is, and those that don't would be best served by finding a game they do enjoy.
I understand that "Go back to X" is frequently thrown around as an insult. If you see any specific posts that you feel fit into that category please report them to the moderators Such insults are hardly unique to MO and started before MO was ever released. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1816425#1816425
I just reread my post and didn't like the way I phrased it, so I'll make the same point slightly diffferently.
Saying that MO is too large and complex to for Starvault to develop efficiently and quickly is equivalent to saying that Starvault is too small a team to develop MO efficiently and quickly.
Both Minecraft and Wurm are have systems that are much less complex than in MO, which makes them easier to develop. That is evidence that they made a better match between the scope of the project and the resourcesm but doesn't "invalidate the fanboy argument" as Cyde says. What would invalidate it is a similar indie developer releasing a game of similar scope and complexity. EVE online is the only example of a company of similar size developing a game of similar complexity did alot better than MO and succeeding on a much greater scale. Arguably, even EVE is significantly less complex than MO (spaceships dont have moving parts and it's a whole lot harder to see the errors in calculating postion in a laser fight than in melee) Also, 2003, was a significantly different environment for releasing an MMO,
Starvault bit off more than they can (easily) chew. Fundamentally there are three ways to handle that as someone who wants what they are trying to make. 1)Play the game and put up with the problems along the way, 2)Sit on the sidelines, keep an eye on it's development and do another 2 week trial when you think it might be ready (while keeping an eye on the rest of the field--Darkfall, Xsyon, Perpetuum,Dawntide, etc). 3) Forget about ever playing it and move on.
@Biskop: How does the following statement "make up excuses and arrogantly dismisses players who don't accept said excuses."
The development team is small which limits the pace of development and bug-fixing. Some people enoy it (MO) for what it is, and those that don't would be best served by finding a game they do enjoy.
I understand that "Go back to X" is frequently thrown around as an insult. If you see any specific posts that you feel fit into that category please report them to the moderators Such insults are hardly unique to MO and started before MO was ever released. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1816425#1816425
@ Moreplex: Did that last post have a point besides throwing in the word "fanboy" ?
I THINK I agree with you...Not sure though.
If your point is that saying MO is a small team is a stupid excuse, AS IS saying they bit off more than they could chew- I agree.
Saying that they bit off more than they coluld chew is the fauult of whoever is trying to "cram that food down their throat"- If they choke its nobodys fault but their own for not realizing that the bite they wer tyring to take would choke a dinosaur.
Saying that MO is too large and complex to for Starvault to develop efficiently and quickly is equivalent to saying that Starvault is too small a team to develop MO efficiently and quickly.
Of course the issue is that it's often used as an excuse by fans trying to explain the poor state of the game. So yeah.. if they used either version as an excuse... the response would be the same... the excuse doesn't fly. It's no more meaningful than buying a wedding cake from a baker who can only deliver a round vanilla cake instead of the multi-tiered masterpiece they sold you. Yeah, if the baker had a bigger team they probably could have delivered on the vision that they sold. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and it doesn't excuse the state of what was delivered.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Perpetuum is a game with the same size team that MO had and they managed to release an outstandingly stable game that supported thousands of users at release. Size of the team makes no difference, when you have a talented team and leadership that makes the right decisions.
People should not blame the Mortal devs either, however good or bad they may be. Blame goes to the top which is Henrik. He ultimately signed off on a game engine (Unreal/Atlas) that is nowhere near capable of supporting a seamless persistent game world. Many of the games major issues stem from this decision, and they can never be fixed unless EPIC China does some major overhaul of their code (doubtful).
I also doubt it is the devs deciding to release half-assed features. More likely Henrik pushes them to release features long before they are ready, and the Dawn patch is obvious proof of this.
Perpetuum is a game with the same size team that MO had and they managed to release an outstandingly stable game that supported thousands of users at release. Size of the team makes no difference, when you have a talented team and leadership that makes the right decisions.
People should not blame the Mortal devs either, however good or bad they may be. Blame goes to the top which is Henrik. He ultimately signed off on a game engine (Unreal/Atlas) that is nowhere near capable of supporting a seamless persistent game world. Many of the games major issues stem from this decision, and they can never be fixed unless EPIC China does some major overhaul of their code (doubtful).
I also doubt it is the devs deciding to release half-assed features. More likely Henrik pushes them to release features long before they are ready, and the Dawn patch is obvious proof of this.
We know this to be true if you remember the leaked Mats pm. I agree with PB I think it is mostly Henrik to blame he shows he has never done anything like this before. I also think out of everybody he has the least amount of exp.
Well I don't know about anyone else but I have found Mortal Online to be one of the best MMOs I have ever played and I have played most.
I would certainly agree that is has a fair share of bugs but it also has its fair share of amazing qualities like :
- Gorgeous graphics
- Full PvP
- Full Loot
- Very interesting and indepth crafting system
- A deap skills system
- No levels
- No Quests
- Player run sandboxy gameplay
- One of the most immersive graphical experiences on a PC.
So yes it is buggy, yes a lot of the systems in the game are half competed but it is a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of cooky cutter EQ clones such as WOW and its ilk.
In my opinion it is better than Darkfall as it has much more depth and potential.
So yes you can attack this small team with no programming skills etc but they have made one hell of a good game that just needs polish and shine to be a truely great game.
Originally posted by psykobilly Perpetuum is a game with the same size team that MO had and they managed to release an outstandingly stable game that supported thousands of users at release. Size of the team makes no difference, when you have a talented team and leadership that makes the right decisions. People should not blame the Mortal devs either, however good or bad they may be. Blame goes to the top which is Henrik. He ultimately signed off on a game engine (Unreal/Atlas) that is nowhere near capable of supporting a seamless persistent game world. Many of the games major issues stem from this decision, and they can never be fixed unless EPIC China does some major overhaul of their code (doubtful). I also doubt it is the devs deciding to release half-assed features. More likely Henrik pushes them to release features long before they are ready, and the Dawn patch is obvious proof of this.
The Perpetuum team has better accents too.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well I don't know about anyone else but I have found Mortal Online to be one of the best MMOs I have ever played and I have played most.
I would certainly agree that is has a fair share of bugs but it also has its fair share of amazing qualities like :
- Gorgeous graphics
- Full PvP
- Full Loot
- Very interesting and indepth crafting system
- A deap skills system
- No levels
- No Quests
- Player run sandboxy gameplay
- One of the most immersive graphical experiences on a PC.
So yes it is buggy, yes a lot of the systems in the game are half competed but it is a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of cooky cutter EQ clones such as WOW and its ilk.
In my opinion it is better than Darkfall as it has much more depth and potential.
So yes you can attack this small team with no programming skills etc but they have made one hell of a good game that just needs polish and shine to be a truely great game.
Full loot PvP you have DarkFall, and anyways what's the use of full loot PvP when loot is so shallow?
a "deap" (?) skill system : right, its more like a very complex skill tree to in fact be able to do things like swimming or resting...awesome, next you'll have a skill tree which ultimate skill will be the ability to take a dump. Awesome.
no levels : skills = levels its the same, in EQ each level allows you to increment your skills (slashing, defense, offense, dodge parry etc) and your health level, its the same here, just that you maxed your skills in a week.
No quests : is it actually really a quality to you? really? dude quests are fun, and the only reason there aren't any is because SV didn't take time to create any. There could have been nice lore based quests like in EQ1 where you actually have to find a quest by finding an object or talking to a NPC etc.
Player run sandboxy gameplay? no its an illusion, tools are broken and its no sandbox where everything revolves around PvP and there isn't any player economy at all.
No its not JUST buggy that's an understatement, its broken. yes graphic engine is nice, but animations are pathetic and artistic design is uneven and terrible so overall its not even that good to look at.
Better than DarkFall? give me 5 arguments to back it up. DarkFall has everything MO has and is much much deeper in almost every aspect, how can MO be better? DFO has a much better engine, it works fine, its not buggy, the loot table is 1000x bigger, the PvE is great, the map is huge, there are tons of dungeons, siege tools are awesome, there are boats, crafting is better, magic is better. So far the only thing MO has and DFO doesn't is horse peeing and people vomitting....Oh, yes, and Penis, rectum and vagina to your toon.
Well I don't know about anyone else but I have found Mortal Online to be one of the best MMOs I have ever played and I have played most.
I would certainly agree that is has a fair share of bugs but it also has its fair share of amazing qualities like :
- Gorgeous graphics
- Full PvP
- Full Loot
- Very interesting and indepth crafting system
- A deap skills system
- No levels
- No Quests
- Player run sandboxy gameplay
- One of the most immersive graphical experiences on a PC.
So yes it is buggy, yes a lot of the systems in the game are half competed but it is a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of cooky cutter EQ clones such as WOW and its ilk.
In my opinion it is better than Darkfall as it has much more depth and potential.
So yes you can attack this small team with no programming skills etc but they have made one hell of a good game that just needs polish and shine to be a truely great game.
I was not feeling too good this morning. But after I read this I had a bit of a laugh and now I feel better thanx.
Well I don't know about anyone else but I have found Mortal Online to be one of the best MMOs I have ever played and I have played most.
I would certainly agree that is has a fair share of bugs but it also has its fair share of amazing qualities like :
- Gorgeous graphics
- Full PvP
- Full Loot
- Very interesting and indepth crafting system
- A deap skills system
- No levels
- No Quests
- Player run sandboxy gameplay
- One of the most immersive graphical experiences on a PC.
So yes it is buggy, yes a lot of the systems in the game are half competed but it is a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of cooky cutter EQ clones such as WOW and its ilk.
In my opinion it is better than Darkfall as it has much more depth and potential.
So yes you can attack this small team with no programming skills etc but they have made one hell of a good game that just needs polish and shine to be a truely great game.
i also think its one of the best mmos i have played. A third place behind UO 1st and EVE 2nd. i have palyed aronud 10 mmos. But its also the longest i have ever played an mmo in one go and possibly longest i have ever spent subscribed to any mmo.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Well I don't know about anyone else but I have found Mortal Online to be one of the best MMOs I have ever played and I have played most.
I would certainly agree that is has a fair share of bugs but it also has its fair share of amazing qualities like :
- Gorgeous graphics
- Full PvP
- Full Loot
- Very interesting and indepth crafting system
- A deap skills system
- No levels
- No Quests
- Player run sandboxy gameplay
- One of the most immersive graphical experiences on a PC.
So yes it is buggy, yes a lot of the systems in the game are half competed but it is a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of cooky cutter EQ clones such as WOW and its ilk.
In my opinion it is better than Darkfall as it has much more depth and potential.
So yes you can attack this small team with no programming skills etc but they have made one hell of a good game that just needs polish and shine to be a truely great game.
Full loot PvP you have DarkFall, and anyways what's the use of full loot PvP when loot is so shallow?
a "deap" (?) skill system : right, its more like a very complex skill tree to in fact be able to do things like swimming or resting...awesome, next you'll have a skill tree which ultimate skill will be the ability to take a dump. Awesome.
no levels : skills = levels its the same, in EQ each level allows you to increment your skills (slashing, defense, offense, dodge parry etc) and your health level, its the same here, just that you maxed your skills in a week.
No quests : is it actually really a quality to you? really? dude quests are fun, and the only reason there aren't any is because SV didn't take time to create any. There could have been nice lore based quests like in EQ1 where you actually have to find a quest by finding an object or talking to a NPC etc.
Player run sandboxy gameplay? no its an illusion, tools are broken and its no sandbox where everything revolves around PvP and there isn't any player economy at all.
No its not JUST buggy that's an understatement, its broken. yes graphic engine is nice, but animations are pathetic and artistic design is uneven and terrible so overall its not even that good to look at.
Better than DarkFall? give me 5 arguments to back it up. DarkFall has everything MO has and is much much deeper in almost every aspect, how can MO be better? DFO has a much better engine, it works fine, its not buggy, the loot table is 1000x bigger, the PvE is great, the map is huge, there are tons of dungeons, siege tools are awesome, there are boats, crafting is better, magic is better. So far the only thing MO has and DFO doesn't is horse peeing and people vomitting....Oh, yes, and Penis, rectum and vagina to your toon.
You need to go back to WOW.
Seriously. How the hell can you say that the crafting in Darkfall is deeper than Mortal Online? You have either never played both games or are just trolling my post. The Darkfall game engine is better than MO? Seriously? You call a cartoony world engine better? How so? It is less buggy but hardly better at all.
Both games are pretty bad but out of the two MO will always interest me more as it has far more depth. Darkfall just did not work as there was nothing to do but combat. It got dull and quick.
And no quests are not a good thing, never have been and never will. If a game is constructed right then you will not need quests. I mean do you pick up a quest in PlanetSide to go kill 5 vanu? No - you do not need to. In Mortal Online and Darkfall to a certain extent the fact that that a player is in an emeny race / guild is enough.
Comments
This thread is a response to the THOUSANDS of post(s), replies and excuses which keep being given regarding SV being incapable of doing anything right.
Every time SV is defended by fanboys the "they are a small team" comes up somewhere... This excuse doesnt work anymore. Maybe in the beginging it was okay but a year and half later with a SMALLER team and pretty much every system in the game unfinished, buggy , placeholder, etc... With no AI or UI fix... With invisible players killing you in combat...With prediction/lag still out of whack....After this long....Noit gunna work anymore as an excuse.
Oh, and where is that "revolutionary breeding system" Dawn was supposed to allw, with real genetics and everything? If its a "small team" that cannot even tie their own shoes, why all the "grand ideas and promises" that still keep coming???
these figures arent accurate in any way, since people dont just buy game time in monthly instalments, some purchase game time every 3 months, 6months etc. But yea 2500 ish sounds about right to me.
picklebeast? which fanboys? MO doesnt have fanboys. They stopped their fanboyish ways 6 mnoths ago or left the game. Hence how you can come on here posting comments that mainly go unchallenged
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I hope you arent taking my saying "fanboy" as something I am meaning to include you- I have always stated that while we do not agree on many issues, you are not blind to the problems and are intelectual enough to not buy into all the hype.
As for "what fanboys"- Damn buddy, I (EDIT:COULD)link a ton of threads from both the OF and here which are recent and the whole "small team" excuse still being used. One in particular http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/67560-so-game-has-been-out-year.html has this written...
"Why?
Because they have a lot to do and haven't got to it yet. They are working on AI currently and this will be fixed eventually.
The way you don't die as much is by becoming smart and if you are really dying every time you leave town its time to move to a new town or time to get smarter (this may be one in the same thing).
As to answer your last question...
There will be bugs after the next big patch as there were before it. If you are looking for the next new shiny polished game this is not it.
Go play rift or something...
If you want to play a unique game made by a small company and are willing to put up with the bugs that come with it then i welcome you to MO.
AND this....
I didn't bother to read your first post, and I didn't pay much attention to this post. Why? Because you come in with a shitty attitude that just continues to get more and more shitty.
This game is made by a small team, looking at their website, or looking up Henriks forum account and reading the post from start to finish will give you a lot of insight.
Towns get different amount of attention from reds. Meduli is visited by reds more than a few times a day. So is Fabernum. Moh Ki on the otherhand isn't visited as frequently, and when it is, it is usually just a pass by. If mobs are given you trouble, you need to do a few things.
AND this...
Yeah nice post and this pretty much sums it up, I dont think people realise how small a team SV is..
-You participated in this thread I am pulling quotes from...And thats just from one thread posted yesterday... You have to know what I am talking about ..
Edit: Sorry for all the typos, my wireless keyboard is acting like it needs to be wired =P
Yeah, you're right that MO's forum on this site is extraordinarily active, so a lot of things get repeated. My question is, if this is in response to a post, why not post it in that thread/those threads? You didn't address this, you just threw some insults at the game like you expect people to go out of their way to refute them. Since the topic's a 'response' - yet an entirely new thread, without referencing any given post as the original subject - the whole thing just seems to me like spamming the forums as another excuse to bait and criticize.
i agree with funkmastd here this thread is weak. It does come across as an atempt to bait unfortunatly there isnt anyone to bait.
those responses are hardly fanboi-ish i mean there is a very big difference between being a fan of the developers and a fan of the actual game, they dont always go hand in hand. What you have here is just varied opinion something you should expect from a variety of posters. Simply put they accept most of MO's short comings and problems. 1 or 2 people might of used the its a small team quote but in reality its simply there as a means to an end. An easy simple way of telling someone unfamiliar to the game that theres alot of work to be done and little developers to actually get it done, something that cannot be argued with. Going into any grave detail on their competenace is not needed in a thread like this.
I do think that many of the posts are quite valid responses, whislt worded a little harshly the truth is if you cant handle pigs and want to rage quit over dying to them bugs or not your troubles and frustratinos are likely just begining. Whilst other posts are constructive and helpful. I guess you jsut shouldnt expect everyone to act the same. Theres certainly some posts that lean more towards fanboi-ism but theres plenty of contructive and negative psots as well.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
to me, fanboy = someone who is such a big fan of a game that he keeps ignoring/excusing the devs' incompetence time and again.
imo, someone saying "the game is buggy and broken, live with it or gtfo" is a behaving like the typical fanboy.
why? because he is blaming the player who expects a working game, rather than the devs who have failed to deliver it.
so if he had said, the game is buggy and broken blame the devs so just keep subbing? that would of been a better response? truth is if its buggy and broken he might not of paid for a buggy game but thats what he has and theres little he can do about it other than play or not. Usually a buggy broken game is naturally the developers fault jsut because he didnt say so in his sentance doesnt mean some random dude is to blame or he is to blame or the game iteslf. Its usually compeltely obvious who is to blame and so stating the obvious isnt needed. I disagree that is a fanboy post. Its quite possible that poster is angry at the developers and bitter with the community and didnt think through his post or want to go into detail just a simple sentance that tells you how it is.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
there's a difference between saying "the game is very buggy, development is slow, promises have been broken but some people still enjoy it for what it is", and saying "SV is a small team, live with it or go play rift".
ofc the first alternative sounds really silly, so I'm not surprised that most MO fans are going for the later one.
Aside from "promises have been broken" what is the difference between the two?
Keep in mind that the difference between "failed to meet my expectations" and "broken promises" is largely subjective.
Aside from excluding "promises have been broken" what is wrong with this statement: The development team is small which limits the pace of development and bug-fixing. Some people enoy it for what it is, and those that don't would be best served by finding a game they do enjoy.
Just because the company is small does not elevate them above others. If they release a product it better damn well be working, no excuses, or they suffer the consequences. Give them a break if you want, your loss as a customer, but if I were to play MO I'd demand a working game.
You would think that would just be normal. You really shouldn't have to demand anything. This is the only industry I know where half finished crap can be released and there are still consumers who will defend it.
Minecraft wasn't Notchs first game, and although I believe it is a different Mojang, Wurm always booted up with that name and symbol.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
the difference is that the first one is honest about the game's shortcomings, while the second one makes up excuses and arrogantly dismisses players who don't accept said excuses.
"go back to WoW", go play rift" seems to be the standard-type answer when people complain about MO being a buggy and unpolished game.
thing is, people don't want WoW or rift, they want what MO is promising, but not delivering.
telling people that they're not hardcore enough just because they expect basic functions to work, will only alienate them further.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson
Notch most decidedly did not make millions of dollars from Wurm online. He has made millions off of Minecraft (11 million copies registered, 3.5 million purchased)
Both games have interesting gameplay, and offer a very "sandboxy" experience, but in many ways are much simpler than MO. (Graphics being the most obvious) Saying that Starvault would have done better if they had limited their scope is exactly the same as saying the dev team is small.
I just reread my post and didn't like the way I phrased it, so I'll make the same point slightly diffferently.
Saying that MO is too large and complex to for Starvault to develop efficiently and quickly is equivalent to saying that Starvault is too small a team to develop MO efficiently and quickly.
Both Minecraft and Wurm are have systems that are much less complex than in MO, which makes them easier to develop. That is evidence that they made a better match between the scope of the project and the resourcesm but doesn't "invalidate the fanboy argument" as Cyde says. What would invalidate it is a similar indie developer releasing a game of similar scope and complexity. EVE online is the only example of a company of similar size developing a game of similar complexity did alot better than MO and succeeding on a much greater scale. Arguably, even EVE is significantly less complex than MO (spaceships dont have moving parts and it's a whole lot harder to see the errors in calculating postion in a laser fight than in melee) Also, 2003, was a significantly different environment for releasing an MMO,
Starvault bit off more than they can (easily) chew. Fundamentally there are three ways to handle that as someone who wants what they are trying to make. 1)Play the game and put up with the problems along the way, 2)Sit on the sidelines, keep an eye on it's development and do another 2 week trial when you think it might be ready (while keeping an eye on the rest of the field--Darkfall, Xsyon, Perpetuum,Dawntide, etc). 3) Forget about ever playing it and move on.
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@Biskop: How does the following statement "make up excuses and arrogantly dismisses players who don't accept said excuses."
The development team is small which limits the pace of development and bug-fixing. Some people enoy it (MO) for what it is, and those that don't would be best served by finding a game they do enjoy.
I understand that "Go back to X" is frequently thrown around as an insult. If you see any specific posts that you feel fit into that category please report them to the moderators Such insults are hardly unique to MO and started before MO was ever released. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1816425#1816425
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@ Moreplex: Did that last post have a point besides throwing in the word "fanboy" ?
I THINK I agree with you...Not sure though.
If your point is that saying MO is a small team is a stupid excuse, AS IS saying they bit off more than they could chew- I agree.
Saying that they bit off more than they coluld chew is the fauult of whoever is trying to "cram that food down their throat"- If they choke its nobodys fault but their own for not realizing that the bite they wer tyring to take would choke a dinosaur.
Of course the issue is that it's often used as an excuse by fans trying to explain the poor state of the game. So yeah.. if they used either version as an excuse... the response would be the same... the excuse doesn't fly. It's no more meaningful than buying a wedding cake from a baker who can only deliver a round vanilla cake instead of the multi-tiered masterpiece they sold you. Yeah, if the baker had a bigger team they probably could have delivered on the vision that they sold. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and it doesn't excuse the state of what was delivered.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Perpetuum is a game with the same size team that MO had and they managed to release an outstandingly stable game that supported thousands of users at release. Size of the team makes no difference, when you have a talented team and leadership that makes the right decisions.
People should not blame the Mortal devs either, however good or bad they may be. Blame goes to the top which is Henrik. He ultimately signed off on a game engine (Unreal/Atlas) that is nowhere near capable of supporting a seamless persistent game world. Many of the games major issues stem from this decision, and they can never be fixed unless EPIC China does some major overhaul of their code (doubtful).
I also doubt it is the devs deciding to release half-assed features. More likely Henrik pushes them to release features long before they are ready, and the Dawn patch is obvious proof of this.
We know this to be true if you remember the leaked Mats pm. I agree with PB I think it is mostly Henrik to blame he shows he has never done anything like this before. I also think out of everybody he has the least amount of exp.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5405334463_871abcda69_z.jpg
Well I don't know about anyone else but I have found Mortal Online to be one of the best MMOs I have ever played and I have played most.
I would certainly agree that is has a fair share of bugs but it also has its fair share of amazing qualities like :
- Gorgeous graphics
- Full PvP
- Full Loot
- Very interesting and indepth crafting system
- A deap skills system
- No levels
- No Quests
- Player run sandboxy gameplay
- One of the most immersive graphical experiences on a PC.
So yes it is buggy, yes a lot of the systems in the game are half competed but it is a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of cooky cutter EQ clones such as WOW and its ilk.
In my opinion it is better than Darkfall as it has much more depth and potential.
So yes you can attack this small team with no programming skills etc but they have made one hell of a good game that just needs polish and shine to be a truely great game.
The Perpetuum team has better accents too.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Full loot PvP you have DarkFall, and anyways what's the use of full loot PvP when loot is so shallow?
a "deap" (?) skill system : right, its more like a very complex skill tree to in fact be able to do things like swimming or resting...awesome, next you'll have a skill tree which ultimate skill will be the ability to take a dump. Awesome.
no levels : skills = levels its the same, in EQ each level allows you to increment your skills (slashing, defense, offense, dodge parry etc) and your health level, its the same here, just that you maxed your skills in a week.
No quests : is it actually really a quality to you? really? dude quests are fun, and the only reason there aren't any is because SV didn't take time to create any. There could have been nice lore based quests like in EQ1 where you actually have to find a quest by finding an object or talking to a NPC etc.
Player run sandboxy gameplay? no its an illusion, tools are broken and its no sandbox where everything revolves around PvP and there isn't any player economy at all.
No its not JUST buggy that's an understatement, its broken. yes graphic engine is nice, but animations are pathetic and artistic design is uneven and terrible so overall its not even that good to look at.
Better than DarkFall? give me 5 arguments to back it up. DarkFall has everything MO has and is much much deeper in almost every aspect, how can MO be better? DFO has a much better engine, it works fine, its not buggy, the loot table is 1000x bigger, the PvE is great, the map is huge, there are tons of dungeons, siege tools are awesome, there are boats, crafting is better, magic is better. So far the only thing MO has and DFO doesn't is horse peeing and people vomitting....Oh, yes, and Penis, rectum and vagina to your toon.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5405334463_871abcda69_z.jpg
i also think its one of the best mmos i have played. A third place behind UO 1st and EVE 2nd. i have palyed aronud 10 mmos. But its also the longest i have ever played an mmo in one go and possibly longest i have ever spent subscribed to any mmo.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
You need to go back to WOW.
Seriously. How the hell can you say that the crafting in Darkfall is deeper than Mortal Online? You have either never played both games or are just trolling my post. The Darkfall game engine is better than MO? Seriously? You call a cartoony world engine better? How so? It is less buggy but hardly better at all.
Both games are pretty bad but out of the two MO will always interest me more as it has far more depth. Darkfall just did not work as there was nothing to do but combat. It got dull and quick.
And no quests are not a good thing, never have been and never will. If a game is constructed right then you will not need quests. I mean do you pick up a quest in PlanetSide to go kill 5 vanu? No - you do not need to. In Mortal Online and Darkfall to a certain extent the fact that that a player is in an emeny race / guild is enough.