I used to say that for example UO's community was the way it were because of how people were back then and today people are different. However, if were were to take people from today and put them in the context of UO back then these would have behaved like any other.
First time I was griefed, and PK'ed, was in UO. PK'ed and griefed for no reason whatsoever than cause a player was acting out their dickish impulses from real life frustrations. I don't see how player behavior has changed one bit with the passage of time.
Very good point here! Between UO and Darkfall it did not change, most PK's in UO were Teenagers and younger adults, the same Age group had the same behavior in Darkfall 13 years later... there goes to show that people, as in the demographic, did not change, games changed.
Their mamma probably grounded them, or someone took their red stapler.
I don't like to generalize but germans are jerks more than often. I know a handful of good people from Germany, but most of the germans I meet in games ... you can't help but notice. Just sayin'. I've noticed this in a number of FPS games too. I wonder where this all comes from?
PC gaming in Europe is massive it pretty much dwarfes the States which favours console gaming. Germany is well know for being the largest PC gaming market in Europe. So it's only logical your going to bump into a lot of German jerks, just like your more likely to encounter American twats on the XBOX.
Personally I've had more issues with the French, so nothing gave me greater pleasure than being matched up against a group of frenchies one time in APB. Good times.
The raid kicked someone who was hearing impaired for not being in TS,
That is the lowest of low. probably down there with offending people with down syndrome.
I fully understand their side. It is not that black and white. I'm on the fence myself. In the end, I probably would've taken him in, but with some prepping and in some minor party role. These games aren't that hard that the rest of the team couldn't carry the one guy. But if the team is "iffy" already as it is ... I don't know. Everyone could be wasting their time.
And there is a pure example of people sucking, they ostracise a disabled guy just in case he impairs their chance at winning a video game instance, and the guy quoted above tries to justify it. It's incredible.
I find the people better in niche games generally.
I blame the games design. I could care less about what or who a person is when just mucking about in openworld stuff. When I'm raiding though, I want to have as good of a group as possible because I want to succeed. I already know that I'm going to have to do this raid a bunch of times, and it's a royal pain to set up and go through. I don't want to have to do it an additional 10 times because I want to move on. I want the gear, and it's the only place to get the gear so I'm stuck going through the raid grind. If there was another solution for the gear, I probably wouldn't care so much. If I knew that after 20 successful runs, I would be geared up, I wouldn't care so much. The game itself, playing off my own desires to have the coolest stuff available, makes me want to have a elite group so I can get it done and over with. Give me another alternative for the gear, and I'll only raid for the fun of it, and it won't matter who comes along.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
It went down the gutter as it became mainstream. By definition mainstream means that you get as much players from the low end as the high end and the low end is often more loud and visible.
Close communitys lead to helping each other cause you are forced to interact with the same people and keeping relations good is helping yourself in the long run but as the community grows larger chances grow slim that you will see the person again and the benefit of beeing nice ammounts to nothing which leads people to stop being nice and act to maximize short-term gains.
Another factor is how gaming changed from a small hardcore market to casual. With shorter playtime the grouping and socialising costs a significant ammount of a casuals playtime. The typical casual is focused on progress and grouping does not help in most mmorpgs aside from dungeons. For some questtypes like collect 10flowers it becomes even a nightmare as it means doubling the time waiting for respawn of flowers. Overall the devs fault to not make grouping more rewarding.
Originally posted by Turkish4676 I miss the days when I had to travel across the EQ globe just to get set up at a real long stay at some hill in some zone to pull for six hours straight to get one yellow of exp. When you got there you better be nice or you just made the twenty to thirty minute trip for nothing. Problem is the time that you invest makes you much more of a community player or if you are older it makes you run out of time because you have too many responsibilities and the game no longer becomes important. If you are the type who demands instant gratification, well there you go, you should not be playing MMOs. Unfortunately the instant gratification guys are mostly what is left in MMOs.
Then re-sub...I recently did and surprisingly I am having a blast! In my first 30 minutes back in Eq (Bristlebane server), I made 2 friends...one of which hooked me up with pp and gear....grouped up with them and hit up the planes...and had several questions answered without one insult or smartass reply. It's a thing of beauty.
And amazingly...the server isn't really a ghost town!
Originally posted by Turkish4676 I miss the days when I had to travel across the EQ globe just to get set up at a real long stay at some hill in some zone to pull for six hours straight to get one yellow of exp. When you got there you better be nice or you just made the twenty to thirty minute trip for nothing. Problem is the time that you invest makes you much more of a community player or if you are older it makes you run out of time because you have too many responsibilities and the game no longer becomes important. If you are the type who demands instant gratification, well there you go, you should not be playing MMOs. Unfortunately the instant gratification guys are mostly what is left in MMOs.
Then re-sub...I recently did and surprisingly I am having a blast! In my first 30 minutes back in Eq (Bristlebane server), I made 2 friends...one of which hooked me up with pp and gear....grouped up with them and hit up the planes...and had several questions answered without one insult or smartass reply. It's a thing of beauty.
And amazingly...the server isn't really a ghost town!
Yeah I re-subbed myself on the 14th of September so I can watch SWG die. I took the 19.99 / mo route so I could play EQ. To prove the point that was being made, I will make a guy on Bristlebane and if you look for a Shadowturk or some form of Turk in the name on a noob hit me up it would be nice to do some old stuff and run a new toon.
This thread is posion. Posion directed at the wrong enemies. Currently, let's look at how "social" people are and act in the real world. You get people in stores who don't say excuse me, push you aside for items without saying a word, can't wait in lines, and look like they want to kill you because you glanced at them to make sure they aren't going to rob you. Wake up, society has degenerated and you think that just because this has reached mmogs then you automatically blame developers. It is a combination of both, and a lack of wisdom passed down. You got people with no morals in mass groups that can't think for themselves, little cattle smashed together in tight knit groups, stores, events. You are going to see the devolution of the human mind at work, and that is because of society.
Think what you want, but it is due to a lack of manners, wisdom, and street smarts being taught in schools that has made these "clowns" that think they can do what they want. They blame people, but they can't blame themselves. Did you attempt to try and change your thinking? Maybe ignore the arseholes? Sure everyone gets pissed, but the downright truth is, you can only change yourself, before you can attempt to change the world. Short, simple and sweet, and the Evolve or Die process is in full effect. Also think about sowing and reaping, You REAP what you SOW. You sow kindness, you reap kindness. Nothing hard to it, all simple and such yet people become ignorant and retarded. They run naked romping in the streets and they suck the nickles and dimes out of employer pockets and bish about it at home. DO something about it, don't just complain, CHANGE. Make something of yourself, if you really can't play with mmog arseholes then do something about it. It's like everyone is becoming cynical because they can't find happiness. Shame, while they become cynical I'm enjoying my life and mmog time. It's not that I don't get mad, I let my stress out in pvp. So some dick comes along and pvps me with a 40 level difference and end game armor, i take it out on another noob wanting to pvp me. Simple, short and sweet.
I also apply this to my business and work. Being someone who has seen every crapface lie, cheat, slack off, bum out, and steal from me, either at a store, in my friendship, at in my business I still am happy, and enjoying myself. Your a adult with a little kids mindset, drop all your common sense, sit down for 3-5 years reading updated material about how to survive in society, psychology, negotiation, ect and then get updated. You won't regret it.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
Ventrilo and TS are just fine, they're used for improving response times and team work, as well as providing an environment that's more capable of holding individuals accountable for their actions. Voice communication isn't necessary for most online gaming, but in most circles that are interested in competition or efficiency, it's just something people will have to get used to. I love it, and I believe those relationships I've formed due to voice communication feel more substantial, or real, than those which formed before it was the norm (though some of that has been bridged). It's simply more personal, and I think that usually puts people into a different state of mind than they would behind a keyboard.
I would agree, though. People are tools. From may days working sales, I can tell you that roughly nine of ten individuals are going to be complete assholes, or rub you the wrong way (something I actually learned during the experience, I was naive). The extrapolation to MMO's doesn't offer much variance, but I think it's just like any other social environment: people are dicks, learn to deal, and life will be easier/more enjoyable for you.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
On a different note, does anyone know any MMO players who are high achievers irl? I stopped playing MMOs when I went to college, and now that I'm done I find that no one I everinteract with online is anything close to a doctor/lawyer/ibanker or even a student at a top 20 university... Is this just a stupid generalization on my part?
Yes...stupid generalization.
I'm 35, been gaming since 1982. Have a 15 year old daughter that gets straight A's. I went to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh for Visual Communications and graduated with my Associate's (Expensive damn school btw). Joined the Navy where I became a Photographer's Mate...did an East Pac and saw Spain, France, Crete, United Arab Emrites, Egypt, Bahrain, Dubai, Sicily, and Kuwait. Had to stand watch on the faintail of my ship at 2am in 90 degree heat on a 20cal after the USS Cole bombing (Cole was in m battle group)..then went to the Office of Naval Intelligence as a Graphic Designer a week after 9/11 and prepared the CO's morning intel reports in power point and did satellite imagery analysis. Moved on to an Army Intel command as a script writer and videographer and met many foreign dignitaries. I now work with an indie developer on an upcoming MMO title due out in 2013 (Projected) giving ideas, advice, and soon graphic imagery and maybe even some 3D modeling.
I wouldn't call any of that NOT being an achiever. And I have met MANY others who have interesting histories and job fields in my adventures as well, including doctors and even a archeologist. It's just the stereotype of most gamers is that of an overweight, parents basement dwelling dweeb or tween ADD stricken kiddies, so that is what is figured to be the majority of players.
TS makes people elitarian and kills the open world communities.
I have to disagree with that point.
The degeneration of the 'open world community' within a great majority of MMOs has essentially made staying in Vent a lot easier. I used to worry about becoming disconnected from the in-game community, but with each game release I am quickly reminded of why I play with a static group of friends and why we continue to use Ventrilo.
That is not to say that we exclude others. I will always respond to /tells and help others to the best of my ability as time permits. And we have grouped with others (obviously not in our vent channel), but we don't stay grouped beyond completing whatever common objective we were working on simply because it is easier to communicate with each other than others.
As far as TS/Vent, I agree. While useful tools, I still don't understand why some guilds make this a requirement on joining. I mean, of the many groups I've been in that have used TS, I couldn't see an advantage. If anything, it was a distraction having to listen to hours of inane non game banter...
It is a requirement because they too want to socialize in some way. If you don't want to socialize then why are you in a guild in the first place? It is their preferred mode of communication. It is the equivalent to guild chat only more efficient. I get the sense that you get stronger bonds by talking with your guildies rather than just typing to them.
I ignore or end up hating 99% of the players I meet in games. Still I prefer VOIP programs over any chat. Chat is awkward and just plain inefficient compared to VOIP. I log on to Mumble & TS as often, or more often, than Messenger or IRC.
You are correct. I was typing quickly at work and mixed two ideas. I really wasn't trying to imply TS for guild was bad but more vent frustration about VOIP requirements for pick-up groups becoming more common. Sorry for expresing myself poorly.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
It's not only MMO's, it's online gaming in general.
I very rarely meet random people online that I actually want to play games with anymore, the whole attitude and atmosphere has been becoming something I want less and less part of and it only seems to be getting worse.
That has been a major contributor for me opting out to solo and minding my own business instead of grouping/socializing/etc.
I actually end up having a better/fun/more enjoyable time while playing mmo's solo than I do while playing it with the types of people I generally run into, so before anyone goes on to blame solo play as the cause for unplayable atmospheres they should take a good long look at what the gaming scene has become.
COMPLETELY AGREE. The MMOs I grew up playing "forced" you to be social and ask others for help. There is no doubt in my mind that modern game mechanics have made it to where grouping and partying is not absolutely necessary. With that being said, I agree with the above quote. Over the years, the gaming community has slowly been going downhill and for some odd reason, kids that are new to the MMO scene are getting cockier and cockier. I'm not sure how much that has to do with your country of birth, but who knows.
I have a lot more fun nowadays just soloing my favorite MMO. That is definitely a side-effect of a bad community.
I would love to see an up-and-coming game that made soloing almost impossible; I would love to see a change in MMOs, but sadly, we may never see the glory days of EQ, UO, etc. ever again...
Ah. A difficult topic. As a German I am woefully aware how my countrymen need a restoration and a new sort of education and ethicality. But on a higher level with German and Anglo-American ways, two very opposite cultures clash. Germans value honesty, directness and individuality while in UK and USA people tend to value social "facades", fitting in and teamwork more. I am not valuing these two ways, as Social Scientist I just try to explain them.
Interesting, because your description of the USA valuing social facades, fitting in and teamwork more would be how the USA examines Asian cultures like the Japanese for example. Your German values are considered to be dominant American values as well
May be interesting to see a range of countries / cultures and how differant people (from the differant groups) see major values being aligned in their contry / culture and the various others.
On a different note, does anyone know any MMO players who are high achievers irl? I stopped playing MMOs when I went to college, and now that I'm done I find that no one I everinteract with online is anything close to a doctor/lawyer/ibanker or even a student at a top 20 university... Is this just a stupid generalization on my part?
Yes...stupid generalization.
I'm 35, been gaming since 1982. Have a 15 year old daughter that gets straight A's. I went to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh for Visual Communications and graduated with my Associate's (Expensive damn school btw). Joined the Navy where I became a Photographer's Mate...did an East Pac and saw Spain, France, Crete, United Arab Emrites, Egypt, Bahrain, Dubai, Sicily, and Kuwait. Had to stand watch on the faintail of my ship at 2am in 90 degree heat on a 20cal after the USS Cole bombing (Cole was in m battle group)..then went to the Office of Naval Intelligence as a Graphic Designer a week after 9/11 and prepared the CO's morning intel reports in power point and did satellite imagery analysis. Moved on to an Army Intel command as a script writer and videographer and met many foreign dignitaries. I now work with an indie developer on an upcoming MMO title due out in 2013 (Projected) giving ideas, advice, and soon graphic imagery and maybe even some 3D modeling.
I wouldn't call any of that NOT being an achiever. And I have met MANY others who have interesting histories and job fields in my adventures as well, including doctors and even a archeologist. It's just the stereotype of most gamers is that of an overweight, parents basement dwelling dweeb or tween ADD stricken kiddies, so that is what is figured to be the majority of players.
Awesome post, thanks. I ask because (with the exception of military types playing to relieve the boredom) the people I interacted with in SWG and wow had professions like gas attendant, prison guard, tattoo artist... All interesting professions no doubt, but more occupy wall street than high achievers.
As to your final point I guess at it's core, it's tough to comprehend how an adult who spends 5/16 waking hours playing MMOs can not be considered maladjusted in some way. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Awesome post, thanks. I ask because (with the exception of military types playing to relieve the boredom) the people I interacted with in SWG and wow had professions like gas attendant, prison guard, tattoo artist... All interesting professions no doubt, but more occupy wall street than high achievers. As to your final point I guess at it's core, it's tough to comprehend how an adult who spends 5/16 waking hours playing MMOs can not be considered maladjusted in some way. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Guess it just really depends on the person. I mean, as I stated in my earlier post, I have been playing video games since I was 6 in 1982 when I got an Atari 2600 for Christmas. I have been in love with them ever since and haven't lost that interest...although, I am slowly losing faith in MMORPG's sadly.
When I started playing MMO' in 1999 with EQ, I played because it was a completely different experience compared to console games (Was introduced to them by a friend I was stationed with in D.C.), and because it allowed me to escape the stress and drudgery of everyday life and get lost in another world and be someone else for a few hours. It was my relaxation in a hectic world that surrounded me. Although I am certain there are other adults out there that play because it allows them to be more accomplished than they actually are in reality too, or tough guys they can't muster the courage to be in reality, etc, etc. Again, the main stereotype of gamers is that they are all dorks who are anti-social and losers....just not the case for most.
As far as MMORPG's go...yeah, sadly I am losing interest and/or faith because they are becoming more and more like console games every year. WAY to much ability to solo to cap (Kills need for community), stat boards (Causes elitist attitudes and egos), battle grounds, instancing out the wazoo (Kills community), intsant travel that makes the world tiny and pointless, meaningless and unimaginative quests (How many Kill/Collect X amount of Y quests do we need?!? BE IMAGINATIVE!!!)....and what is REALLY turning me off is cash shops and micro-transactions.
Couple reasons for this I am assuming...
1. Dev's say it's the new way to go because that is what the majority want. Although true, it's also because these companies know they have the potential to make MUCH more money that way than through monthly subscriptions. I have played both sub games and F2P with cash shop models at some point. Although I rarely used the cash shops, I saw others I played with (Befriended) spend HUNDREDS of dollars in a month or two. MUCH more than they would have in a monthly sub game. And it was rampant (Allods Online if curious). For those like me who rarely use it (I'd buy vanity items mostly, maybe spent $10-20 every few months), or those that didn't use it at all, it eventually caught up with you that you were at a disadvantage and NEVER going to catch those that spent tons of cash. Pay to win in other words.
2. Also playing off of #1, player impatientness and laziness. This new generation of MMO players wants everything now now now. And cash shops allow them to buy greatness faster than actually having to devote time and effort into doing so. This is what a lot of players now DO NOT GET, or just refuse to get...MMORPG's take time and effort. It is what seperated them (At one time) from console gaming...which is devoted to instant gratification. It is also why they traditionally had monthly fees. If you don't have the time to dedicate to an MMO, don't play them IMO...play console games where you can get your quick fix and move on.
I mean, I don't have all the time in the world with my daughter, a job, friends, taking care of my reminaing grandmother, bills, etc, etc. But I jump on as often as I can, and realize with a montly fee...even at $15 a month, even if I can't be on 8+ hours a day like I use to when I was younger, I get my monies worth if I can jump on for 2 or 3 hours a day (average 12 hours a week) and enjoy my time there and escape all the stresses of my life the same as I did when I started. And even if I can't, the fact that I have that option there for me whenever I can get on and enjoy it. Just getting harder and harder to enjoy it though when the game is fulll of elitist pricks, smartasses, and rude and immature players only in it for themselves.
Why I re-subbed to EQ1 and have been playing it for a month+ now. From the minute I joined and hopped on my old characters (Typed /played and it said my character has 6 years and 277days of playtime!), I met friendly people, 2 of which I friended...1 of which hooked me up with a bunch of in-game money and gear to start (Because my old character's were still there, but strippped of all items (Except epic weapons) due to server merge and a long idle time with no play). You ask questions and get replies without all the jerk replies, etc. LOVING it! Sure, it doesn't have pretty graphics, or an exciting combat system (Stand there, hit auto attack, and wait basically)...but it has the most important aspect of MMO's that nearly ALL modern ones lack....COMMUNITY. And one that is helpful, groups together, and is enjoyable...same as it was when I first left. And surprisingly, it isn't a ghost town.
People can say EQ is terrible and has tons of timesinks etc, etc....which it does...but tell me, what MMO from then to now DOESN'T have time sinks?! They all do, they are just done differently now and better hidden, but they are still there. And if EQ is so bad...then tell me why it is STILL going after 13 years, just released it's 17th expansion, and has many servers full of people?
Like a lot of people pointed out stick to guilds. Our only hope for these games is finding a good guild. Now more than ever one should start shopping around for a good guild in SWTOR and then do pseudo interviews like on their forums and watch the replies and see how the guild is .What type of leaders and people. Then decide if you want that guild.
That's because you are dealing with a new generation of gamers; you can still find a happy medium if you become more proactive; for people looking to play TOR, GW2 or [insert new MMO here] now it's the time to do some searches about guilds or maybe you could post your own "Looking for..." thread in different forums. Doing some networking before games are released is a good idea imo. Some guilds have already set up their websites, vent/mumble, etc to know each other. It's sad to see so many tools these days that make it easier to communicate and socialize with others yet people fail at it; asshattery in online games will always be there.
If an MMO company runs their MMO in such a way that you dislike 90% of the people...
There's two easy ways to fix that.
Craft their game in such a way that they're likely to alienate 90% of their players, or craft their game so they alienate you.
... unfortunately, math and the love of money suggests you're on the losing end of that deal.
I don't understand why people say things like 'soloers, theme parkers and (etc etc etc)' should get out of MMORPG genre if they don't want to play MMORPGs (Not neccessarily directed against the OP here, just some of the comments I saw), when it's obvious the MMORPG genre is adjusting to accomodate those people.
So really, it's the people who DON'T want those people who should probably get out of the MMORPG genre, just like people with old taste in music probably shouldn't complain about how top 40 radio doesn't cater to them.
It's amazing how many people out there are looking for a mature, considerate, intelligent group to play their MMO with, and yet they never seem to find each other.
(I have found one)
(Surprisingly, this happened right around the time I calmed down, started playing in a more team orientated way, and took the trouble to get to know the people in the group)
Comments
Their mamma probably grounded them, or someone took their red stapler.
PC gaming in Europe is massive it pretty much dwarfes the States which favours console gaming. Germany is well know for being the largest PC gaming market in Europe. So it's only logical your going to bump into a lot of German jerks, just like your more likely to encounter American twats on the XBOX.
Personally I've had more issues with the French, so nothing gave me greater pleasure than being matched up against a group of frenchies one time in APB. Good times.
That is the lowest of low. probably down there with offending people with down syndrome.
I fully understand their side. It is not that black and white. I'm on the fence myself. In the end, I probably would've taken him in, but with some prepping and in some minor party role. These games aren't that hard that the rest of the team couldn't carry the one guy. But if the team is "iffy" already as it is ... I don't know. Everyone could be wasting their time.
And there is a pure example of people sucking, they ostracise a disabled guy just in case he impairs their chance at winning a video game instance, and the guy quoted above tries to justify it. It's incredible.I find the people better in niche games generally.
I blame the games design. I could care less about what or who a person is when just mucking about in openworld stuff. When I'm raiding though, I want to have as good of a group as possible because I want to succeed. I already know that I'm going to have to do this raid a bunch of times, and it's a royal pain to set up and go through. I don't want to have to do it an additional 10 times because I want to move on. I want the gear, and it's the only place to get the gear so I'm stuck going through the raid grind. If there was another solution for the gear, I probably wouldn't care so much. If I knew that after 20 successful runs, I would be geared up, I wouldn't care so much. The game itself, playing off my own desires to have the coolest stuff available, makes me want to have a elite group so I can get it done and over with. Give me another alternative for the gear, and I'll only raid for the fun of it, and it won't matter who comes along.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
It went down the gutter as it became mainstream. By definition mainstream means that you get as much players from the low end as the high end and the low end is often more loud and visible.
Close communitys lead to helping each other cause you are forced to interact with the same people and keeping relations good is helping yourself in the long run but as the community grows larger chances grow slim that you will see the person again and the benefit of beeing nice ammounts to nothing which leads people to stop being nice and act to maximize short-term gains.
Another factor is how gaming changed from a small hardcore market to casual. With shorter playtime the grouping and socialising costs a significant ammount of a casuals playtime. The typical casual is focused on progress and grouping does not help in most mmorpgs aside from dungeons. For some questtypes like collect 10flowers it becomes even a nightmare as it means doubling the time waiting for respawn of flowers. Overall the devs fault to not make grouping more rewarding.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Then re-sub...I recently did and surprisingly I am having a blast! In my first 30 minutes back in Eq (Bristlebane server), I made 2 friends...one of which hooked me up with pp and gear....grouped up with them and hit up the planes...and had several questions answered without one insult or smartass reply. It's a thing of beauty.
And amazingly...the server isn't really a ghost town!
Yeah I re-subbed myself on the 14th of September so I can watch SWG die. I took the 19.99 / mo route so I could play EQ. To prove the point that was being made, I will make a guy on Bristlebane and if you look for a Shadowturk or some form of Turk in the name on a noob hit me up it would be nice to do some old stuff and run a new toon.
This thread is posion. Posion directed at the wrong enemies. Currently, let's look at how "social" people are and act in the real world. You get people in stores who don't say excuse me, push you aside for items without saying a word, can't wait in lines, and look like they want to kill you because you glanced at them to make sure they aren't going to rob you. Wake up, society has degenerated and you think that just because this has reached mmogs then you automatically blame developers. It is a combination of both, and a lack of wisdom passed down. You got people with no morals in mass groups that can't think for themselves, little cattle smashed together in tight knit groups, stores, events. You are going to see the devolution of the human mind at work, and that is because of society.
Think what you want, but it is due to a lack of manners, wisdom, and street smarts being taught in schools that has made these "clowns" that think they can do what they want. They blame people, but they can't blame themselves. Did you attempt to try and change your thinking? Maybe ignore the arseholes? Sure everyone gets pissed, but the downright truth is, you can only change yourself, before you can attempt to change the world. Short, simple and sweet, and the Evolve or Die process is in full effect. Also think about sowing and reaping, You REAP what you SOW. You sow kindness, you reap kindness. Nothing hard to it, all simple and such yet people become ignorant and retarded. They run naked romping in the streets and they suck the nickles and dimes out of employer pockets and bish about it at home. DO something about it, don't just complain, CHANGE. Make something of yourself, if you really can't play with mmog arseholes then do something about it. It's like everyone is becoming cynical because they can't find happiness. Shame, while they become cynical I'm enjoying my life and mmog time. It's not that I don't get mad, I let my stress out in pvp. So some dick comes along and pvps me with a 40 level difference and end game armor, i take it out on another noob wanting to pvp me. Simple, short and sweet.
I also apply this to my business and work. Being someone who has seen every crapface lie, cheat, slack off, bum out, and steal from me, either at a store, in my friendship, at in my business I still am happy, and enjoying myself. Your a adult with a little kids mindset, drop all your common sense, sit down for 3-5 years reading updated material about how to survive in society, psychology, negotiation, ect and then get updated. You won't regret it.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
Ventrilo and TS are just fine, they're used for improving response times and team work, as well as providing an environment that's more capable of holding individuals accountable for their actions. Voice communication isn't necessary for most online gaming, but in most circles that are interested in competition or efficiency, it's just something people will have to get used to. I love it, and I believe those relationships I've formed due to voice communication feel more substantial, or real, than those which formed before it was the norm (though some of that has been bridged). It's simply more personal, and I think that usually puts people into a different state of mind than they would behind a keyboard.
I would agree, though. People are tools. From may days working sales, I can tell you that roughly nine of ten individuals are going to be complete assholes, or rub you the wrong way (something I actually learned during the experience, I was naive). The extrapolation to MMO's doesn't offer much variance, but I think it's just like any other social environment: people are dicks, learn to deal, and life will be easier/more enjoyable for you.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Yes...stupid generalization.
I'm 35, been gaming since 1982. Have a 15 year old daughter that gets straight A's. I went to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh for Visual Communications and graduated with my Associate's (Expensive damn school btw). Joined the Navy where I became a Photographer's Mate...did an East Pac and saw Spain, France, Crete, United Arab Emrites, Egypt, Bahrain, Dubai, Sicily, and Kuwait. Had to stand watch on the faintail of my ship at 2am in 90 degree heat on a 20cal after the USS Cole bombing (Cole was in m battle group)..then went to the Office of Naval Intelligence as a Graphic Designer a week after 9/11 and prepared the CO's morning intel reports in power point and did satellite imagery analysis. Moved on to an Army Intel command as a script writer and videographer and met many foreign dignitaries. I now work with an indie developer on an upcoming MMO title due out in 2013 (Projected) giving ideas, advice, and soon graphic imagery and maybe even some 3D modeling.
I wouldn't call any of that NOT being an achiever. And I have met MANY others who have interesting histories and job fields in my adventures as well, including doctors and even a archeologist. It's just the stereotype of most gamers is that of an overweight, parents basement dwelling dweeb or tween ADD stricken kiddies, so that is what is figured to be the majority of players.
I have to disagree with that point.
The degeneration of the 'open world community' within a great majority of MMOs has essentially made staying in Vent a lot easier. I used to worry about becoming disconnected from the in-game community, but with each game release I am quickly reminded of why I play with a static group of friends and why we continue to use Ventrilo.
That is not to say that we exclude others. I will always respond to /tells and help others to the best of my ability as time permits. And we have grouped with others (obviously not in our vent channel), but we don't stay grouped beyond completing whatever common objective we were working on simply because it is easier to communicate with each other than others.
You are correct. I was typing quickly at work and mixed two ideas. I really wasn't trying to imply TS for guild was bad but more vent frustration about VOIP requirements for pick-up groups becoming more common. Sorry for expresing myself poorly.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
COMPLETELY AGREE. The MMOs I grew up playing "forced" you to be social and ask others for help. There is no doubt in my mind that modern game mechanics have made it to where grouping and partying is not absolutely necessary. With that being said, I agree with the above quote. Over the years, the gaming community has slowly been going downhill and for some odd reason, kids that are new to the MMO scene are getting cockier and cockier. I'm not sure how much that has to do with your country of birth, but who knows.
I have a lot more fun nowadays just soloing my favorite MMO. That is definitely a side-effect of a bad community.
I would love to see an up-and-coming game that made soloing almost impossible; I would love to see a change in MMOs, but sadly, we may never see the glory days of EQ, UO, etc. ever again...
Interesting, because your description of the USA valuing social facades, fitting in and teamwork more would be how the USA examines Asian cultures like the Japanese for example. Your German values are considered to be dominant American values as well
May be interesting to see a range of countries / cultures and how differant people (from the differant groups) see major values being aligned in their contry / culture and the various others.
Yes...stupid generalization.
I'm 35, been gaming since 1982. Have a 15 year old daughter that gets straight A's. I went to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh for Visual Communications and graduated with my Associate's (Expensive damn school btw). Joined the Navy where I became a Photographer's Mate...did an East Pac and saw Spain, France, Crete, United Arab Emrites, Egypt, Bahrain, Dubai, Sicily, and Kuwait. Had to stand watch on the faintail of my ship at 2am in 90 degree heat on a 20cal after the USS Cole bombing (Cole was in m battle group)..then went to the Office of Naval Intelligence as a Graphic Designer a week after 9/11 and prepared the CO's morning intel reports in power point and did satellite imagery analysis. Moved on to an Army Intel command as a script writer and videographer and met many foreign dignitaries. I now work with an indie developer on an upcoming MMO title due out in 2013 (Projected) giving ideas, advice, and soon graphic imagery and maybe even some 3D modeling.
I wouldn't call any of that NOT being an achiever. And I have met MANY others who have interesting histories and job fields in my adventures as well, including doctors and even a archeologist. It's just the stereotype of most gamers is that of an overweight, parents basement dwelling dweeb or tween ADD stricken kiddies, so that is what is figured to be the majority of players.
Awesome post, thanks. I ask because (with the exception of military types playing to relieve the boredom) the people I interacted with in SWG and wow had professions like gas attendant, prison guard, tattoo artist... All interesting professions no doubt, but more occupy wall street than high achievers.As to your final point I guess at it's core, it's tough to comprehend how an adult who spends 5/16 waking hours playing MMOs can not be considered maladjusted in some way. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Guess it just really depends on the person. I mean, as I stated in my earlier post, I have been playing video games since I was 6 in 1982 when I got an Atari 2600 for Christmas. I have been in love with them ever since and haven't lost that interest...although, I am slowly losing faith in MMORPG's sadly.
When I started playing MMO' in 1999 with EQ, I played because it was a completely different experience compared to console games (Was introduced to them by a friend I was stationed with in D.C.), and because it allowed me to escape the stress and drudgery of everyday life and get lost in another world and be someone else for a few hours. It was my relaxation in a hectic world that surrounded me. Although I am certain there are other adults out there that play because it allows them to be more accomplished than they actually are in reality too, or tough guys they can't muster the courage to be in reality, etc, etc. Again, the main stereotype of gamers is that they are all dorks who are anti-social and losers....just not the case for most.
As far as MMORPG's go...yeah, sadly I am losing interest and/or faith because they are becoming more and more like console games every year. WAY to much ability to solo to cap (Kills need for community), stat boards (Causes elitist attitudes and egos), battle grounds, instancing out the wazoo (Kills community), intsant travel that makes the world tiny and pointless, meaningless and unimaginative quests (How many Kill/Collect X amount of Y quests do we need?!? BE IMAGINATIVE!!!)....and what is REALLY turning me off is cash shops and micro-transactions.
Couple reasons for this I am assuming...
1. Dev's say it's the new way to go because that is what the majority want. Although true, it's also because these companies know they have the potential to make MUCH more money that way than through monthly subscriptions. I have played both sub games and F2P with cash shop models at some point. Although I rarely used the cash shops, I saw others I played with (Befriended) spend HUNDREDS of dollars in a month or two. MUCH more than they would have in a monthly sub game. And it was rampant (Allods Online if curious). For those like me who rarely use it (I'd buy vanity items mostly, maybe spent $10-20 every few months), or those that didn't use it at all, it eventually caught up with you that you were at a disadvantage and NEVER going to catch those that spent tons of cash. Pay to win in other words.
2. Also playing off of #1, player impatientness and laziness. This new generation of MMO players wants everything now now now. And cash shops allow them to buy greatness faster than actually having to devote time and effort into doing so. This is what a lot of players now DO NOT GET, or just refuse to get...MMORPG's take time and effort. It is what seperated them (At one time) from console gaming...which is devoted to instant gratification. It is also why they traditionally had monthly fees. If you don't have the time to dedicate to an MMO, don't play them IMO...play console games where you can get your quick fix and move on.
I mean, I don't have all the time in the world with my daughter, a job, friends, taking care of my reminaing grandmother, bills, etc, etc. But I jump on as often as I can, and realize with a montly fee...even at $15 a month, even if I can't be on 8+ hours a day like I use to when I was younger, I get my monies worth if I can jump on for 2 or 3 hours a day (average 12 hours a week) and enjoy my time there and escape all the stresses of my life the same as I did when I started. And even if I can't, the fact that I have that option there for me whenever I can get on and enjoy it. Just getting harder and harder to enjoy it though when the game is fulll of elitist pricks, smartasses, and rude and immature players only in it for themselves.
Why I re-subbed to EQ1 and have been playing it for a month+ now. From the minute I joined and hopped on my old characters (Typed /played and it said my character has 6 years and 277days of playtime!), I met friendly people, 2 of which I friended...1 of which hooked me up with a bunch of in-game money and gear to start (Because my old character's were still there, but strippped of all items (Except epic weapons) due to server merge and a long idle time with no play). You ask questions and get replies without all the jerk replies, etc. LOVING it! Sure, it doesn't have pretty graphics, or an exciting combat system (Stand there, hit auto attack, and wait basically)...but it has the most important aspect of MMO's that nearly ALL modern ones lack....COMMUNITY. And one that is helpful, groups together, and is enjoyable...same as it was when I first left. And surprisingly, it isn't a ghost town.
People can say EQ is terrible and has tons of timesinks etc, etc....which it does...but tell me, what MMO from then to now DOESN'T have time sinks?! They all do, they are just done differently now and better hidden, but they are still there. And if EQ is so bad...then tell me why it is STILL going after 13 years, just released it's 17th expansion, and has many servers full of people?
guess what? 90% of all people wouldnt want to play with YOU.
Digitally imported, chill out channel, try it, its awesome bro.
Like a lot of people pointed out stick to guilds. Our only hope for these games is finding a good guild. Now more than ever one should start shopping around for a good guild in SWTOR and then do pseudo interviews like on their forums and watch the replies and see how the guild is .What type of leaders and people. Then decide if you want that guild.
That's because you are dealing with a new generation of gamers; you can still find a happy medium if you become more proactive; for people looking to play TOR, GW2 or [insert new MMO here] now it's the time to do some searches about guilds or maybe you could post your own "Looking for..." thread in different forums. Doing some networking before games are released is a good idea imo. Some guilds have already set up their websites, vent/mumble, etc to know each other. It's sad to see so many tools these days that make it easier to communicate and socialize with others yet people fail at it; asshattery in online games will always be there.
90% of the people wouldn't want to play with themselves.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
I'm going to run some quick math by here.
If an MMO company runs their MMO in such a way that you dislike 90% of the people...
There's two easy ways to fix that.
Craft their game in such a way that they're likely to alienate 90% of their players, or craft their game so they alienate you.
... unfortunately, math and the love of money suggests you're on the losing end of that deal.
I don't understand why people say things like 'soloers, theme parkers and (etc etc etc)' should get out of MMORPG genre if they don't want to play MMORPGs (Not neccessarily directed against the OP here, just some of the comments I saw), when it's obvious the MMORPG genre is adjusting to accomodate those people.
So really, it's the people who DON'T want those people who should probably get out of the MMORPG genre, just like people with old taste in music probably shouldn't complain about how top 40 radio doesn't cater to them.
It's amazing how many people out there are looking for a mature, considerate, intelligent group to play their MMO with, and yet they never seem to find each other.
(I have found one)
(Surprisingly, this happened right around the time I calmed down, started playing in a more team orientated way, and took the trouble to get to know the people in the group)
(Talk about an amazing coincidence!)
Give me liberty or give me lasers