Originally posted by doobster Bob, try reading other peoples posts before you post yourself... no one heres wants to get rid of PvE, or even asked why its there. I dont even know whos post your replying too... congrats on a well thought out, well informed post.
The original poster of this thread said why do we have PvE content.
No he said why do people play the MMOGs specifically for PvE content. In many posts throughout the discussion he made it specifically clear that he didnt want to do away with PvE content.
I think forum styles tend to mimic gaming styles. Assuming the mindset of a PvPer is competitive, it would stand to reason that their forum style would be competitive as well. It's less about answering questions or discussing issues than it is about winning arguments. I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification, though. I've seen "group-pve" and "solo-pve" people go after each other with gleeful malice before, so who knows.
Doing away with pve altogether makes the games boring. If you know that you're going to be pvping 24/7, what's the point. It's the chance encounter that makes it fun. A thumbs up to the game developers who are sticking their necks out in attempts to make a good mmorpg that will be able to survive the bashing of the mindless.
Originally posted by Jenuviel I think forum styles tend to mimic gaming styles. Assuming the mindset of a PvPer is competitive, it would stand to reason that their forum style would be competitive as well. It's less about answering questions or discussing issues than it is about winning arguments. I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification, though. I've seen "group-pve" and "solo-pve" people go after each other with gleeful malice before, so who knows.
So what are you trying to say? Because im a blunt competitive person on the forums, im a l337 h4ker d00d griefer in the game? ... I dont even know where this post came from, you didnt quote anyone, so i have to assume your talking about me
Originally posted by doobster Originally posted by Jenuviel I think forum styles tend to mimic gaming styles. Assuming the mindset of a PvPer is competitive, it would stand to reason that their forum style would be competitive as well. It's less about answering questions or discussing issues than it is about winning arguments. I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification, though. I've seen "group-pve" and "solo-pve" people go after each other with gleeful malice before, so who knows.So what are you trying to say? Because im a blunt competitive person on the forums, im a l337 h4ker d00d griefer in the game? ... I dont even know where this post came from, you didnt quote anyone, so i have to assume your talking about me
o/~ You're so vain, you probably think this post is about you... o/~
First alot of peeps like start lvl1 and then lvl2 and so on like in ac2 where you can eventually go to lvl150 peeps there are playing from day one are lvl86 have billions and billions of xp have done quest maybe 500 hundred times and they seems to like it no pvp only quests and killing mobs.
And they chat alot to lol:P
I dont like that way to but alot like this way of play in a mmo for years doing same thing over and over again and in a save pve world its bloody boring but thats my opinion i respect others choice of play they want.
WHat i see as good mmorpg is good complicated hard quest that give great rewards but take hours to do but also with danger of being ruined by other players who also do that quest or hunting in groups and knowing that other groups also hunting there and you can be whiped by them.
PvP where you can loot corpeses back pack but not there armor or weapon they have try so hard to get. Make bank where you put your stuff so never is you back pack full only from what you loot when you go hunting.
FFA only pvp i like the world must be so designed that dungeons or quest or hunting ground never be save give also xp punishment of say like 5%.
A system that track your record of killings and your deaths so end of every month you gain some title in pvp.
ALL is open no instance ganking all can happen make game so that solo almost imposible hunt in groups make it harsh to go out major citys.
But make game difficult also in pve and quest that prevent from the noobs or casual come to that game.
Let hardcore play that sort of pvp games
But im affaraid that making bucks is so importend these days that a FFA all never get enough players to play it.
I know shadowbane is there but somehow i dont like how it is my favorite pvp server was darktide ac2
But with xp punishment loot corpes and gane some sort of pvp reward in ranks like wow or something else would have make darktide the ultimate pvp server for hardcore.
WoW is to save to easy and pvp is a joke no skill needed just go in BG and and gain hk points real easy without a good pvp skill and when you rank 14 i know that it wont say he is good at pvp he just farm like helll everyday in warsong gulch for hk points 15hours a day:P
P.S. Yes i know my english suck but i dont care if you smart enough you can understand what i mean hehe:P
Or flame dont matter to me:P
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Originally posted by doobster So what are you trying to say? Because im a blunt competitive person on the forums, im a l337 h4ker d00d griefer in the game? ... I dont even know where this post came from, you didnt quote anyone, so i have to assume your talking about me
I didn't say anything about being a l337 h4ker d00d griefer, I said competitive. I don't relate the one to the other until someone gives me a reason to. My point was just that the type of personality that is drawn to activities like PvP is almost certainly driven by a competitive nature (nothing wrong with that), and that such a competitive drive would explain why some people tend to post more argumentative statements than informative discussions- that desire to win, to compete.
I also said that "I've seen "group-pve" and "solo-pve" people go after each other with gleeful malice before, so who knows." It's not science, just an observation on the way things seem to be going in this thread. It seems very PvP, but Poster versus Poster instead of Player versus Player.
Originally posted by doobster Originally posted by Jenuviel It seems very PvP, but Poster versus Poster instead of Player versus Player. Forums often times become not only hubs for discussions, but arguments as well.
It just seemed the tone in your post was that you were almost frowning upon people for being competitive, in MMO or in forums.
No no, not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.
Originally posted by doobster Originally posted by Elnator LOLWhatever. You have proven every point I've made. All you want is a game that has enforced PVP so that you can pk people at 1/4 health. You also are against limiting yourself to 1 character per server so that you can't then run and hide on an alt. You also are against any kind of in-game notoriety system so that the 'law' in the game can't deal with you. You, sir, just want to be able to harass and grief other players. It's quite obvious from every post you've made that all you want to do is be able to kill other players with no real consequence to yourself... at least no unavoidable consequence (by logging on an alt). Give me a game where enforced, open PVP exists that you can't have alts. And I'll be there (well.. as long as it isn't as boring as Lineage ) Wow, your the single most immature 37 year old I've ever come across. You really think you've stuck me into a category of griefing, but you dont even know me. I'm done with this argument. I dont want a gankfest/mass muder type game. I want a game where there is the possibility of PvPing anywhere, where you have to work together with people to make your own sense of security, where everything is a challenge and requires a well thought out tactic. I am not looking for a game where i can play god and just kerpwn MOBs all day (or other people for that matter) with my 1337 sword of skull bashing.... if you cant understand that, then i cant help you, because i cant really say it much more blunt.
You are still missing the point. I want the same thing. But the fact is without a system where players can't "hide", without reprecussions, on an "alt" character there is no way you will prevent a game of this type from becoming a mad PK fest like old UO slowly became. In the first year or so of old UO PVP was FANTASTIC. In the 2nd year it was ok but rampant PK'ing and griefing by some players was beginning to become a problem. By the 3rd year the PK's had become so rampant that they were driving away players. There were instances of 20-30 PK's running through dungeons killing people at random and looting all their stuff. Newb, vet, anyone.
I'm not saying that open PVP isn't a good thing. I'm saying OPEN PVP without limiting people's ability to hide from their actions is a problem. If people have to live with the consequences of what they do they're a lot less likely to become a problem to the rest of the game society.
You are remembering UO through rose colored glasses. That or you just honestly don't remember that there were entire armies of PK's that would make entire areas of the game un-playable because you just couldn't go there. There was a point where people just stopped going to certain dungeons because they knew they'd get PK'd there. If you went in and ran the PK's off they'd just log out and play their non-pk alts for a while till the hunters became bored.
Maybe YOU didn't do this but plenty more people did. I was an anti-pk. I remember the NUMEROUS times we'd rally a force to go drive PK's out of a dungeon. We'd usually kill 1 or 2 but typically the majority would recall or gate out and log off and play their non-pk alt. We'd hang around and protect the dungeon crawlers while they hunted, etc but eventually we'd go do other things and the PK's would log back in and go after the folks again.
There is no "player justice" when players can hide from the consequences of their actions by logging into an 'alt'. I fail to see why you can't understand this simple fact.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I have been watching this thread on the sidelines, and I wanted to express a few points.
I think MMO gaming sometimes comes down to ethics. For example, from my perspective..
I play WoW. Find it a very good game for casual gamers, visceral, and asthetic...even though most people don't play casually. (Side note:I am 30 and married, no kids) And I play a character that is "good" in nature, a priest. I play to help and meet others, and enjoy general interaction w/o having to leave my pc. I like the roleplay aspect, because I for one like to escape the monotany of every day life and relax in a imaginary world. So that basically sums that up.
..I am getting to a point
Because it is imaginary, why would one want to kill for fun? Its probably just me, but that doesnt seem right..even if the game is not real. So there isn't accountability. I agree with the poster that there should be a game that in reality does have good and poeple of ill-repute, but justice should prevail. A server where only one character can be played, rules are set to punish criminals and people get what they deserve. So I guess I can sum it up with this...ethics should reflect in MMO gaming to an extent...because it is roleplaying after all..and roleplaying no matter how unreal it is should reflect real concepts and ethics
I am open to discussion on this..I find this topic very interesting, and would like intelligent feedback
Also just heard that a PVP RP server may be added to WoW...
1. If you have an open PvP system it forces everyone to PvP. That is not fair for those folks who do not wish to PvP. PvPers, by advocating an open PvP system, essentially are advocating forcing PvP on every player.
2. If there are to be real "rewards" for PvP (ie, giving your victim a step backwards in terms of EXP, looting his or her uber 1337 +35 sword of wtfpwnage, etc.), there absolutely *have* to be consequences of some sort ... reputation hit, inability to enter town without being attacked by guards, inability to use the market, etc. ... because one of the arguments that the open PvP advocates use is that open PvP is more realistic ... well, if it's realism you're after, then you absolutely must have serious consequences for engaging in piracy, unprovoked murder, and looting ... if you don't, then it's hardly realistic, and it's simply a smoke screen for an "I WANT TO GANK WHOMEVER I WANT TO WHEN I WANT TO WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES AND THAT'S REALISTIC BECAUSE I SAY IT IS" attitude.
3. For the same reason of realism, account alts would have to be banned. How realistic is it for a player to be roleplaying as a murderer, when the player can simply log out to avoid consequences and log back in as a different character shortly thereafter. That leads to endless, endless abuses, and also *kills* realism, so, again, if you were really interested in realism as you state at the outset, you would be in favor of no alts, because logging off and logging back in as an alt is simply a way to avoid consequences and because of that it kills realism.
In reality, the arguments we've seen raised here in favor of an open PvP system are all basically hollow crap. The reality is that folks want as target rich an environment as possible, and realism be damned when it interferes with that by creating consequences for their character's actions.
I am pro severe penalties against player killing, however, I believe that it should be in the game. As for one player per account... well that would be nice, however, I don't see it happening unless the game is something similiar to ToA or Dark and Light where dieing actually matters more than just losing your gear. The reason for this is because of the fact that you have to convince the game developers that having only one character per an account is a good thing for them as a financial decision. A true pvp enriched game will make it hard for pkers to kill other people. Not being able to use the towns, res spots, etc. are very good ways of starting to do this. Also perhaps lowing stats and skills over a specific amount of time (not permanent), long pk flags which allow ppl to attack them etc.
I totally agree on PvP gankers having to face concequences for open PKing and ganking. Not being able to go into towns is a start, but it should be taken further. For instance, I thought the system of placing bounties on other players' heads was a cool thing to have. Not only does it paint a target on those players, but it provides a good way for other PvPers to get rich by killing them.
As for banning having alts on PvP servers, maybe. I think these leet players whould probably just create another account and use that player character to hide away on. At least you would limit the number of those who can hide because not everyone would be willing to shell out another $15 to just have another char on the same server...
Originally posted by WillJones420 As for banning having alts on PvP servers, maybe. I think these leet players whould probably just create another account and use that player character to hide away on. At least you would limit the number of those who can hide because not everyone would be willing to shell out another $15 to just have another char on the same server...
Granted that some of them would. I know for a fact that the guilds that I am in charge of usually have about 2 accounts on average. However, if you had an influx of younger people, perhaps that would cut down on the number of problems based on the fact that the children would not be able to get that much money from their parents (hopefully). However, we aren't gankers, so go figure.
"why do people play MMOG`s for PVE content?" for the same reason you play MMOG`s for PVP.Because they can! If you dont like a game that allows PVE than dont play that game.That is the way I pick the games I choose to play,if they have a pvp system with no consequences then I dont play that game.Am I a carebear ? damn straight ,and that is the way I like to play.The fact that you dont understand why,is your problem not mine.enough said
Not only does it paint a target on those players, but it provides a good way for other PvPers to get rich by killing them.
Yes, but this can be abused as well. PK1 and PK2 kill PvE1. PvE1 puts a bounty on PK1 and/or PK2. PK1 then kills PK2 and collects bounty, and PK2 kills PK1 and collects bounty and PK1 and PK2 both get rich. Also works even if there is no PK2 ... PK just calls PK's other PKing friends, one of them kills PK and they share the bounty ... not only have they PK'd PvE1, they also just scammed him out of his money.
Having just read the original posters post I have to say that if he can't understand why people play online games for PvE content then he needs to extend his awareness of other people.
That is like someone posting that they can't understand why people don't want open pvp. Well, people have different values and opinions. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not valid or important to someone else.
I actually like the Lineage II pvp system.... you can "get" anyone you want (or anyone you have the power to "kill") but there are consequences, such as going red (or not getting them and dropping your weapon or armor etc... though I don't really like that part so much)
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Not only does it paint a target on those players, but it provides a good way for other PvPers to get rich by killing them.
Yes, but this can be abused as well. PK1 and PK2 kill PvE1. PvE1 puts a bounty on PK1 and/or PK2. PK1 then kills PK2 and collects bounty, and PK2 kills PK1 and collects bounty and PK1 and PK2 both get rich. Also works even if there is no PK2 ... PK just calls PK's other PKing friends, one of them kills PK and they share the bounty ... not only have they PK'd PvE1, they also just scammed him out of his money.
It would work if it was done right. Only players who have a certain level of crappy reputation can have bounties on them, and killing plahers and NPC's should be a damn fast way at getting crappy reputation. The game could keep a list of what crimes a certain player does, or list a reason for the bounty to be placed. The two could be crossreferenced and then if the reason isn't good enough, then there is no bounty placed. It could still be abused, I know, but there's a ton of new things that can be placed in MMO but get cut because they're are too many asshats out there who'll take advantage of them. Perhaps stricter modding is in order, but there in lies another problem. :P
It's sad that we have to miss out on a lot of these fun things because a number of jerks would abuse them.
Originally posted by Sovrath Well, people have different values and opinions. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not valid or important to someone else.
amen brother! if you dont understand why people would want to interact with other people to play a game..... you are very shallow. playing a single player rpg vs a rpg with all your friends is a huge difference. have you ever played a pnp rpg? if so would it be as fun if you played by yourself? hell no... that being said i am a pvper and i do think the pvp aspect in a mmorpg makes it way funner but not all people agree with me and some people may not want to pvp, some people may just want to get together and have FUN with their friends without being pked, witch is fine imo thats why they make different servers for different play styles.
You gotta love the intolerance of people. Its truly pathetic.
In the end, I am sorry I ever spoke up. Because this isnt about PvP or PvE. Its not about how people percieve those aspects of MMORPGs. Its about how gamers perceive gamers. When you apply your lables to each other, you limit each other to those sterotypes. You put boundries within your own mind on who these people are. When most of us truly don't know each other at all. "Carebear" or "griefer", its not that the don't exist, they do, but most do not fall into that catagory.
You want to know why people like PvP or PvE? The answer is the same, because they enjoy it. They don't question why. They play the game and have fun. When its not fun, they do something else. Thats why its entertainment.
Should there be games with open PvP, sure...why the hell not. Should there be games that are purely PvE with no PKing, sure why the hell not. Should there be games that fall somewhere in the middle? Sure, I hope so, cause I know I do. I won't play the extremes because they are not fun for me, I like both. And I don't tend to like the type of people that are on those extremems. Doesn't mean I need to belittle them or try to convince anyone that their position is invalid. I let them be...and hope they don't play the games I do in any large number that would cause me to deal with them on a regular basis. I have played games where I wish more people took an active interest in the PvP game. I have also played games where I wished the PvP rules made some kind of sense, and didn't endorse griefing.
And no I don't consider every action in PvP griefing. Let me show my definitions:
1. Honorable attack: Attacks when someone is not fighting anything else. Could be travelling etc. Only time this does not apply is when there is an AFK over their head and they havent moved in awhile.
2. Ganking: attacking a player in combat, or obviously in a merchant window when they cant see anything else. Or killing someone who is AFK. *I really dont have too much of a problem with this kind of behavior, I don't do it, but I don't have a problem with it. On occasion I have even found it funny*
3. Griefing: Killing someone "grey", they obviously have NO chance, zero, pose no threat. Killing a player repeatedly over and over. Camping "graveyards" and killing the recently brought back to life. Camping someones corpse.
This is basically how I see things. I prefer a game that has rules set to allow 1 and 2. But not 3. I have yet to see a game that was OPEN PvP that didnt result in massive amounts of 3. And I have played quite a few. And the end result is always the same.
Now I am not saying games that allow 3 shouldnt exist. But don't betlittle or consider yourself some sort of more elite gamer because you play 3 and I don't. Just enjoy your game and allow me to do the same.
________________________________
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Comments
I think forum styles tend to mimic gaming styles. Assuming the mindset of a PvPer is competitive, it would stand to reason that their forum style would be competitive as well. It's less about answering questions or discussing issues than it is about winning arguments. I'm sure that's a gross oversimplification, though. I've seen "group-pve" and "solo-pve" people go after each other with gleeful malice before, so who knows.
Doing away with pve altogether makes the games boring. If you know that you're going to be pvping 24/7, what's the point. It's the chance encounter that makes it fun. A thumbs up to the game developers who are sticking their necks out in attempts to make a good mmorpg that will be able to survive the bashing of the mindless.
o/~ You're so vain, you probably think this post is about you... o/~
:-)
Chris Mattern
Lol thread starter thinks he knows it all:P
First alot of peeps like start lvl1 and then lvl2 and so on like in ac2 where you can eventually go to lvl150 peeps there are playing from day one are lvl86 have billions and billions of xp have done quest maybe 500 hundred times and they seems to like it no pvp only quests and killing mobs.
And they chat alot to lol:P
I dont like that way to but alot like this way of play in a mmo for years doing same thing over and over again and in a save pve world its bloody boring but thats my opinion i respect others choice of play they want.
WHat i see as good mmorpg is good complicated hard quest that give great rewards but take hours to do but also with danger of being ruined by other players who also do that quest or hunting in groups and knowing that other groups also hunting there and you can be whiped by them.
PvP where you can loot corpeses back pack but not there armor or weapon they have try so hard to get. Make bank where you put your stuff so never is you back pack full only from what you loot when you go hunting.
FFA only pvp i like the world must be so designed that dungeons or quest or hunting ground never be save give also xp punishment of say like 5%.
A system that track your record of killings and your deaths so end of every month you gain some title in pvp.
ALL is open no instance ganking all can happen make game so that solo almost imposible hunt in groups make it harsh to go out major citys.
But make game difficult also in pve and quest that prevent from the noobs or casual come to that game.
Let hardcore play that sort of pvp games
But im affaraid that making bucks is so importend these days that a FFA all never get enough players to play it.
I know shadowbane is there but somehow i dont like how it is my favorite pvp server was darktide ac2
But with xp punishment loot corpes and gane some sort of pvp reward in ranks like wow or something else would have make darktide the ultimate pvp server for hardcore.
WoW is to save to easy and pvp is a joke no skill needed just go in BG and and gain hk points real easy without a good pvp skill and when you rank 14 i know that it wont say he is good at pvp he just farm like helll everyday in warsong gulch for hk points 15hours a day:P
P.S. Yes i know my english suck but i dont care if you smart enough you can understand what i mean hehe:P
Or flame dont matter to me:P
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I didn't say anything about being a l337 h4ker d00d griefer, I said competitive. I don't relate the one to the other until someone gives me a reason to. My point was just that the type of personality that is drawn to activities like PvP is almost certainly driven by a competitive nature (nothing wrong with that), and that such a competitive drive would explain why some people tend to post more argumentative statements than informative discussions- that desire to win, to compete.
I also said that "I've seen "group-pve" and "solo-pve" people go after each other with gleeful malice before, so who knows." It's not science, just an observation on the way things seem to be going in this thread. It seems very PvP, but Poster versus Poster instead of Player versus Player.
Forums often times become not only hubs for discussions, but arguments as well.
It just seemed the tone in your post was that you were almost frowning upon people for being competitive, in MMO or in forums.
No no, not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.
You are still missing the point.
I want the same thing. But the fact is without a system where players can't "hide", without reprecussions, on an "alt" character there is no way you will prevent a game of this type from becoming a mad PK fest like old UO slowly became. In the first year or so of old UO PVP was FANTASTIC. In the 2nd year it was ok but rampant PK'ing and griefing by some players was beginning to become a problem. By the 3rd year the PK's had become so rampant that they were driving away players. There were instances of 20-30 PK's running through dungeons killing people at random and looting all their stuff. Newb, vet, anyone.
I'm not saying that open PVP isn't a good thing. I'm saying OPEN PVP without limiting people's ability to hide from their actions is a problem. If people have to live with the consequences of what they do they're a lot less likely to become a problem to the rest of the game society.
You are remembering UO through rose colored glasses. That or you just honestly don't remember that there were entire armies of PK's that would make entire areas of the game un-playable because you just couldn't go there. There was a point where people just stopped going to certain dungeons because they knew they'd get PK'd there. If you went in and ran the PK's off they'd just log out and play their non-pk alts for a while till the hunters became bored.
Maybe YOU didn't do this but plenty more people did. I was an anti-pk. I remember the NUMEROUS times we'd rally a force to go drive PK's out of a dungeon. We'd usually kill 1 or 2 but typically the majority would recall or gate out and log off and play their non-pk alt. We'd hang around and protect the dungeon crawlers while they hunted, etc but eventually we'd go do other things and the PK's would log back in and go after the folks again.
There is no "player justice" when players can hide from the consequences of their actions by logging into an 'alt'. I fail to see why you can't understand this simple fact.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I have been watching this thread on the sidelines, and I wanted to express a few points.
I think MMO gaming sometimes comes down to ethics. For example, from my perspective..
I play WoW. Find it a very good game for casual gamers, visceral, and asthetic...even though most people don't play casually. (Side note:I am 30 and married, no kids) And I play a character that is "good" in nature, a priest. I play to help and meet others, and enjoy general interaction w/o having to leave my pc. I like the roleplay aspect, because I for one like to escape the monotany of every day life and relax in a imaginary world. So that basically sums that up.
..I am getting to a point
Because it is imaginary, why would one want to kill for fun? Its probably just me, but that doesnt seem right..even if the game is not real. So there isn't accountability. I agree with the poster that there should be a game that in reality does have good and poeple of ill-repute, but justice should prevail. A server where only one character can be played, rules are set to punish criminals and people get what they deserve. So I guess I can sum it up with this...ethics should reflect in MMO gaming to an extent...because it is roleplaying after all..and roleplaying no matter how unreal it is should reflect real concepts and ethics
I am open to discussion on this..I find this topic very interesting, and would like intelligent feedback
Also just heard that a PVP RP server may be added to WoW...
Again, to restate:
1. If you have an open PvP system it forces everyone to PvP. That is not fair for those folks who do not wish to PvP. PvPers, by advocating an open PvP system, essentially are advocating forcing PvP on every player.
2. If there are to be real "rewards" for PvP (ie, giving your victim a step backwards in terms of EXP, looting his or her uber 1337 +35 sword of wtfpwnage, etc.), there absolutely *have* to be consequences of some sort ... reputation hit, inability to enter town without being attacked by guards, inability to use the market, etc. ... because one of the arguments that the open PvP advocates use is that open PvP is more realistic ... well, if it's realism you're after, then you absolutely must have serious consequences for engaging in piracy, unprovoked murder, and looting ... if you don't, then it's hardly realistic, and it's simply a smoke screen for an "I WANT TO GANK WHOMEVER I WANT TO WHEN I WANT TO WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES AND THAT'S REALISTIC BECAUSE I SAY IT IS" attitude.
3. For the same reason of realism, account alts would have to be banned. How realistic is it for a player to be roleplaying as a murderer, when the player can simply log out to avoid consequences and log back in as a different character shortly thereafter. That leads to endless, endless abuses, and also *kills* realism, so, again, if you were really interested in realism as you state at the outset, you would be in favor of no alts, because logging off and logging back in as an alt is simply a way to avoid consequences and because of that it kills realism.
In reality, the arguments we've seen raised here in favor of an open PvP system are all basically hollow crap. The reality is that folks want as target rich an environment as possible, and realism be damned when it interferes with that by creating consequences for their character's actions.
I totally agree on PvP gankers having to face concequences for open PKing and ganking. Not being able to go into towns is a start, but it should be taken further. For instance, I thought the system of placing bounties on other players' heads was a cool thing to have. Not only does it paint a target on those players, but it provides a good way for other PvPers to get rich by killing them.
As for banning having alts on PvP servers, maybe. I think these leet players whould probably just create another account and use that player character to hide away on. At least you would limit the number of those who can hide because not everyone would be willing to shell out another $15 to just have another char on the same server...
"why do people play MMOG`s for PVE content?" for the same reason you play MMOG`s for PVP.Because they can! If you dont like a game that allows PVE than dont play that game.That is the way I pick the games I choose to play,if they have a pvp system with no consequences then I dont play that game.Am I a carebear ? damn straight ,and that is the way I like to play.The fact that you dont understand why,is your problem not mine.enough said
Yes, but this can be abused as well. PK1 and PK2 kill PvE1. PvE1 puts a bounty on PK1 and/or PK2. PK1 then kills PK2 and collects bounty, and PK2 kills PK1 and collects bounty and PK1 and PK2 both get rich. Also works even if there is no PK2 ... PK just calls PK's other PKing friends, one of them kills PK and they share the bounty ... not only have they PK'd PvE1, they also just scammed him out of his money.
Having just read the original posters post I have to say that if he can't understand why people play online games for PvE content then he needs to extend his awareness of other people.
That is like someone posting that they can't understand why people don't want open pvp. Well, people have different values and opinions. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not valid or important to someone else.
I actually like the Lineage II pvp system.... you can "get" anyone you want (or anyone you have the power to "kill") but there are consequences, such as going red (or not getting them and dropping your weapon or armor etc... though I don't really like that part so much)
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yes, but this can be abused as well. PK1 and PK2 kill PvE1. PvE1 puts a bounty on PK1 and/or PK2. PK1 then kills PK2 and collects bounty, and PK2 kills PK1 and collects bounty and PK1 and PK2 both get rich. Also works even if there is no PK2 ... PK just calls PK's other PKing friends, one of them kills PK and they share the bounty ... not only have they PK'd PvE1, they also just scammed him out of his money.
It would work if it was done right. Only players who have a certain level of crappy reputation can have bounties on them, and killing plahers and NPC's should be a damn fast way at getting crappy reputation. The game could keep a list of what crimes a certain player does, or list a reason for the bounty to be placed. The two could be crossreferenced and then if the reason isn't good enough, then there is no bounty placed. It could still be abused, I know, but there's a ton of new things that can be placed in MMO but get cut because they're are too many asshats out there who'll take advantage of them. Perhaps stricter modding is in order, but there in lies another problem. :P
It's sad that we have to miss out on a lot of these fun things because a number of jerks would abuse them.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
You gotta love the intolerance of people. Its truly pathetic.
In the end, I am sorry I ever spoke up. Because this isnt about PvP or PvE. Its not about how people percieve those aspects of MMORPGs. Its about how gamers perceive gamers. When you apply your lables to each other, you limit each other to those sterotypes. You put boundries within your own mind on who these people are. When most of us truly don't know each other at all. "Carebear" or "griefer", its not that the don't exist, they do, but most do not fall into that catagory.
You want to know why people like PvP or PvE? The answer is the same, because they enjoy it. They don't question why. They play the game and have fun. When its not fun, they do something else. Thats why its entertainment.
Should there be games with open PvP, sure...why the hell not. Should there be games that are purely PvE with no PKing, sure why the hell not. Should there be games that fall somewhere in the middle? Sure, I hope so, cause I know I do. I won't play the extremes because they are not fun for me, I like both. And I don't tend to like the type of people that are on those extremems. Doesn't mean I need to belittle them or try to convince anyone that their position is invalid. I let them be...and hope they don't play the games I do in any large number that would cause me to deal with them on a regular basis. I have played games where I wish more people took an active interest in the PvP game. I have also played games where I wished the PvP rules made some kind of sense, and didn't endorse griefing.
And no I don't consider every action in PvP griefing. Let me show my definitions:
1. Honorable attack: Attacks when someone is not fighting anything else. Could be travelling etc. Only time this does not apply is when there is an AFK over their head and they havent moved in awhile.
2. Ganking: attacking a player in combat, or obviously in a merchant window when they cant see anything else. Or killing someone who is AFK. *I really dont have too much of a problem with this kind of behavior, I don't do it, but I don't have a problem with it. On occasion I have even found it funny*
3. Griefing: Killing someone "grey", they obviously have NO chance, zero, pose no threat. Killing a player repeatedly over and over. Camping "graveyards" and killing the recently brought back to life. Camping someones corpse.
This is basically how I see things. I prefer a game that has rules set to allow 1 and 2. But not 3. I have yet to see a game that was OPEN PvP that didnt result in massive amounts of 3. And I have played quite a few. And the end result is always the same.
Now I am not saying games that allow 3 shouldnt exist. But don't betlittle or consider yourself some sort of more elite gamer because you play 3 and I don't. Just enjoy your game and allow me to do the same.
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Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.