How do you think battlegrounds is working out?

Glander · July 2005

I'm just curious what you all think of BG? I'm a level 40 warrior and I have been in a few times, but it was never very enjoyable. All the matches have either been stalemates or easy wins due to team imbalance. I find the wait time to be completely absurd. I was in line for four hours yesterday with no invitation to join.

Overall, I'm pretty disappointed with Blizzard's attempt at BG. I think they could have done a much better job and, for the life of me, I can't understand why they implemented something with such large wait times.

Thoughts?

Finduilas · July 2005

I think overall Blizzard did a bad job of PvP.

I don't think the classes are very balanced for 1v1, but that's beside the point. The game is called World of Warcraft. What war craft do they refer to?

Even on PvP, where is the WAR?

A bunch of lv 60s strolling around ganking lowbies is NOT war. Doing instances and quests and duels, is NOT war. Capture the flag is a joke, and AV is a non entity on any server with a huge Faction imbalance. Bottling up the war and placing it in nice little areas is entirley non RP and a big failure, at least on my server, where Alliance out number horde about 3-1.

Having set up the war nicely through the lore, Wow had great potential for PvP, not just ganking and usual 1v1 on PVP servers.

Had you been able to ACTUALLY capture Tarren Mill, and hold it, had you been able to ACTUALLY gain territory and keep it, PvP might have been interesting to me. Had I been able to become a REAL hero of the war by joining the battle to capure a REAL objective, AND keep it, it would have been fun. Were it possible to become a traitor and a spy, or switch sides....

However in WOW the world is pretty static, nothing changes, and BGs, even when they actually work, have no real soul, no real sense of achievement, and TOO many ppl go in only to quest, get good rep or solo.

War is to WoW what Quest is to EQ.

I only started playing WoW as a stop gap til Dark and Light came out, but the release delay means I'm still playing. Hopefully DnL will have real MEANINGFUL PvP.

Glander · July 2005

Well said. You comments about the world being very static are quite true. I was hoping for more evolution of the storyline as Blizzard added patches, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen.

The game took six years to develop, right? I wonder if their technology, engine, servers, etc. are pretty much maxed out. If so, I doubt future expansions will offer much. But I hope I am wrong.

Bama1267 · July 2005

I find CTF is fun....when I can get in. Problem is I play at night mostly so I can forget about getting in. Not to mention I dont have the time to boat , fly then run to go get in queu every damn time I want to go in. This has been addressed though with battlemasters in the next patch thank god.

Im not sure if its was feasable ( probably hacked that word but oh well), but I think letting players set up the instance with there own requirements would have worked alot better. At least to speed up the process of getting in. Could also have how many horde and alliance have joined the current game setup. And then when game does finally start....put everyone in a raid party together. Thats all probably wishfull thinking though.

jimothypetro · July 2005

I love Battlegrounds, but I can never get in them.

Even at prime time, there are no more than 2 WSG instances, and there hasn't been an AV instance for almost 2 weeks. WSG is always a 10+ minute wait, and 30+ minute if I go in with a a 10man goup. This is on a high pop PvP server, too.

Until Blizzard does cross-realm battlegrounds(and that may not even possible), I'm not even going to bother with them.

j-monster · July 2005

When i first started Bg i couldent get enough of it.

Id spend 2+ hours just pvping non stop, but now even im getting a little bored...

its always the same poeple that i end up fighitng in the bg... honor farmers who have been lvl 30 in there since i was lvl 24 (now 30) so its kinda of getting lame for me to be doing the same junk over and over and over untill i hit 51 for AV

but i hear AV is freaking empty!

they should have released more than two BG's

hopefully they will make more soon

tu_uilwen · July 2005

Finduilas, I do believe he said how are BGs working out, now how pvp and ganking is working out?

you had a well put together post but lets stay on topic here so that we do not waste any time. You said maybe one sentence on BGs, and no sense of achievement? dude you gfet reputation, with gives you new items, and getting new and more pvp ranks. I mean I guess its jsut me I feel i did somehtign when I go from rank 2-3 or for other 5 and above, and I love getting new rep, I am currently friendly in AV and I am gonan keep working it up.

I personally love the BGs, Ecspecially AV, I find it alot of fun and give me somehtign to do instead of grinding or doing instances.

And please no one tell me i don't know what i'm talking about and I am some low level, becasue I am almost lvl 56, more then what most can say.....so yea I do knwo what I am talking about.........

Johnark · July 2005

Warsung Gulch must be a blast for the horde! They've been ganked, zerged and farmed like crazy before BG, now they can have their revenge very easily.

Warsung Gulch is so sad, the alliance is giving up the second the horde scores 1 point. It ends up for the next 30 mins to 1 hour that we're all on defense just racking up Honor kills cause there's no way to win due to bad organization, unbalance of factions, Shamans need to be nerfed, and much more.

If all we're doing is farming honor kills, then why not do that in Alterac Valley?

I CAN'T!!!!! On earthen Ring there hasn't been an available Alterac Valley instance for the past 9 DAYS during peak hours!!!! Everytime I queue, it says "Unavailable"! So WTF? Everyone is queued up for Warsung Gulch cause they know the horde is losing population and never queue themselves for AV.

battlegrounds is so dead... I'm not even bothering to queue anymore cause I'm working on m 3rd alt... a Rogue... god the day I get bored of rerolling all the time will be the day I quit this crap game.

tu_uilwen · July 2005

Then your playing on the wrong server man....on skullcrusher there is always a AV going on and they last for 2-3 days at a time..and the battles are immense and alot of fun.

and for WSG on Skullcrusher, those games last a few hours....

Finduilas · July 2005

OK, lets analyze your points.

Reputation. Far too many players were questing in AV for rep, rather doing what they enter to do, PvP.

Too many ppl were only interested in their own progress, and refused to join the raid and actual battles.

New items? from rep. From what I hear, those items will only be available IN the Bg, so thats useless. New items from PvP ranks? see below.

Gaining ranks? That could be done OUTSIDE the BG, so not a valid point.

Sense of achievement? I mean't REAL achievement. So you gain a few ranks, a few bits of gear, so what. So you win AV 20 times? So what. Nothing has changed, no real impact has occurred in the world of so-called WARCRAFT. When you put stories on your guild website you want to relate how you took part in the capture of Tarren Mill, and relate the specifics of the battle. A new player might read it and be amazed that TM was once in Horde hands but is now firmly Alliance.

So to answer your question. BGs and PvP in general is little more than a fancy arcade game; points, power ups, add-ons, standing.....

However by far the biggest problem is the huge faction imbalance meaning that AV on certain servers (mine included) is rarely up. So, before there was SOME PvP, now there is NONE. I enjoyed AV when I could get in, but haven't been able to for weeks. Very few PvP on my PvE server, and I'm not into 1v1.

Remember Everquest? What happened to the QUEST part?

World of Warcraft. What happened to the WARCRAFT part?

tu_uilwen · July 2005

nope availible anywher....there PvP rep Bonus items...I saw a warrior outide of the BG and I have a rogue in guild exalted using the 2 daggers from there where ever he goes....so do the research on that....

and to say a REAL Achievement.....what sense of achievement do you get out side of BG??? Gain a few levels.....go instance for new gear.......get into a guild war of 40 vs 40....and kill the other guild.....or hey maybe for you its ganking newbies.....

What do you actually call a Real achievement in a game.

Kaltic · July 2005

Originally posted by tu_uilwen

Finduilas, I do believe he said how are BGs working out, now how pvp and ganking is working out?

you had a well put together post but lets stay on topic here so that we do not waste any time. You said maybe one sentence on BGs, and no sense of achievement? dude you gfet reputation, with gives you new items, and getting new and more pvp ranks. I mean I guess its jsut me I feel i did somehtign when I go from rank 2-3 or for other 5 and above, and I love getting new rep, I am currently friendly in AV and I am gonan keep working it up.

I personally love the BGs, Ecspecially AV, I find it alot of fun and give me somehtign to do instead of grinding or doing instances.

And please no one tell me i don't know what i'm talking about and I am some low level, becasue I am almost lvl 56, more then what most can say.....so yea I do knwo what I am talking about.........

Yea you get Rep and all but if you could take over a city while doing raids and take out battlegrounds i mean take over a horde city (if your alliance) and keep it and have to defend it.... well thats the true battleground, so i really agree with Finduilas. Blizzard just went kind of dumb once they reached PvP that is the reason i don't play that game anymore.

Finduilas · July 2005

nope availible anywher....there PvP rep Bonus items...I saw a warrior outide of the BG and I have a rogue in guild exalted using the 2 daggers from there where ever he goes....so do the research on that....

I said that I had heard that, items obtained INSIDE the BG, were GOING, get it going, to be made BG only, not that you could not use them NOW.

and to say a REAL Achievement.....what sense of achievement do you get out side of BG??? Gain a few levels.....go instance for new gear.......get into a guild war of 40 vs 40....and kill the other guild.....or hey maybe for you its ganking newbies.....

I already answered that. Tell me, the things you list as achievements, from AV, are they not just the same as PvE, instancing? Gaining Ranks, instead of levels, gaining new armor, weapons. You do that in PvE, so how is BG any different? Seriously, answer the question. What makes AVs PvP acheivements ANY different to what you can attain in normal PvE?

or hey maybe for you its ganking newbies.....

Did you actually READ my posts? I play on PvE, I NEVER gank newbies. I referred to it, because I know it occurrs, and becasue I DO NOT consider it something worth achieving.

A bunch of lv 60s strolling around ganking lowbies is NOT war.

That's what I actually said. This is World of Warcraft. So where is the WARCRAFT needed for ganking. There is no war, just 2 instance zones where opposing factions can PLAY at war.

What do you actually call a Real achievement in a game.

I suggest you go and re-read my 2 previous posts, cos you entirley missed the point. There is a lot you can achieve in WoW, from normal PvE, do we agree on that? So when Blizzard put PvP, Honor, and BG in, they made it JUST like PvE. Everything you claim to be a PvP reward refers to STUFF, items, which you could get ranks or rep. It is just another type of the same reward.

Again, read what I said, or better yet, go to the Dark and Light website, and read their plans for PvP. DnL is being made by a small company, might not even get released, but Blizzard had no such worries, yet they played it safe. I think WoW is a great game, but it's not ground breaking, and it could have been, could still afford to be, wtih the money from 2 million customers.

tu_uilwen · July 2005

Kaltic ok here is why we cannot have the whoel capture a horde or ally city........sinc allies out number horde on most servers......how would horde ever get the city back and if all the cities are taken then what do we do for

1.) selling loot
2.) Auction houses
3.) Transportation to the 2 continents

and find

If BG is the same achievement as PVE in fact of rank/level and items....then why are you complainin gthat bg has no achievement, I guess PVE has none either.....

jimmyman99 · July 2005

Originally posted by Finduilas
I think overall Blizzard did a bad job of PvP.
I don't think the classes are very balanced for 1v1, but that's beside the point. The game is called World of Warcraft. What war craft do they refer to?
Even on PvP, where is the WAR?
A bunch of lv 60s strolling around ganking lowbies is NOT war. Doing instances and quests and duels, is NOT war. Capture the flag is a joke, and AV is a non entity on any server with a huge Faction imbalance. Bottling up the war and placing it in nice little areas is entirley non RP and a big failure, at least on my server, where Alliance out number horde about 3-1.
Having set up the war nicely through the lore, Wow had great potential for PvP, not just ganking and usual 1v1 on PVP servers.
Had you been able to ACTUALLY capture Tarren Mill, and hold it, had you been able to ACTUALLY gain territory and keep it, PvP might have been interesting to me. Had I been able to become a REAL hero of the war by joining the battle to capure a REAL objective, AND keep it, it would have been fun. Were it possible to become a traitor and a spy, or switch sides....
However in WOW the world is pretty static, nothing changes, and BGs, even when they actually work, have no real soul, no real sense of achievement, and TOO many ppl go in only to quest, get good rep or solo.
War is to WoW what Quest is to EQ.
I only started playing WoW as a stop gap til Dark and Light came out, but the release delay means I'm still playing. Hopefully DnL will have real MEANINGFUL PvP.

Warcraft is just a name from the Warcraft series, its a strategy game and WoW is just emphasizing(sp?) on that name. World of Warcraft is no more a WAR as QUEST in Everquest (neverquest rather). I agree WoW is a bittoo static, there are no long term incentives for PvP.

Imije · July 2005

They should add noninstanced contested areas that you could take and have to protect. On most servers it would be more difficult for the horde due to the Alliances numbers but this could be overcome with stratagy. It would finaly force people to actualy use some tactics in PvP instead of just running around attacking whatever was closest. It would be nice to see battles come down to team work and skill rather than superior numbers of high level characters.

Kaltic · July 2005

Originally posted by tu_uilwen

Kaltic ok here is why we cannot have the whoel capture a horde or ally city........sinc allies out number horde on most servers......how would horde ever get the city back and if all the cities are taken then what do we do for
1.) selling loot
2.) Auction houses
3.) Transportation to the 2 continents
and find
If BG is the same achievement as PVE in fact of rank/level and items....then why are you complainin gthat bg has no achievement, I guess PVE has none either.....

if they can reduce lag problems they could reduce server count to get mabye a more balanced population on a server and with that say the alliance must take over everyother place before taking over the main (AH) city then once it is gone blink server restarts the war everything back to normal. You know how long it would take though for them to kill every npc horde guard??

Anyway that won't happen, i know it wont but it would still be cool if they could make it work......acually im glad you said the Auction Houses thats one problem i had a problem with in game why would i want to go to Iron Forge to sell or buy in the AH why not Stormwind or even Darnassus (i think thats right) but no i have to leave a thousand needles and must be forces to go to Iron Forge (even though i set my hearthstone there) but still. When the server is lagging there is one place people need to go and that place is the worst the AH. If they would have spread them out much less lag i would say. All they need to do is connect the Stormwind-IronForge-Darnassus AH and it would be exactly the same for the Alliance. Now i havent played my horde character forvere so i dont know thier capitol names but it could be the same for them.

jimmyman99 · July 2005

Originally posted by Imije
They should add noninstanced contested areas that you could take and have to protect. On most servers it would be more difficult for the horde due to the Alliances numbers but this could be overcome with stratagy. It would finaly force people to actualy use some tactics in PvP instead of just running around attacking whatever was closest. It would be nice to see battles come down to team work and skill rather than superior numbers of high level characters.

Thats a good idea. Bliz should learn from Planetside and implement "base" type of camps or something. Basicaly the idea behind is that each base is connected in a chain, one end of the chain is in lets say undercity, the other is in stormwind. In order to conquer EVERYTHING, players would have to capture and hold those bases: heres a rough draft of what I mean

STORMWIND-----X---Y---Z-------UNDERCITY

As you can see there are 3 bases in between STORMWIND and UNDERCITY (X, Y and Z) in order to conquer UC, alliance has to conquer bases X then Y then Z (in that specific order) The further into horde territory they get, the harder it is to maintain speed of conquest and defence of the captured bases becuase alliance is gonna be stretched all around the place defending bases (which horde can reclaim, regardless of the chain) This way its gonna be realy hard to conquer enemy home city, even if the numbers are 3 to 1. but at least you have that possibility, and you have incentive to capture and hold the base, maybe exp, some quests etc etc.

Also, a good idea I think is to introduce large scale NPC battles, where PCs can join in and fight alongside NPCs earning exp, honor and doing quests. I would certainly love to see a horde of deathguards marching towards menethil harbour on a quest of turning everyone into zombies or something.

Shlub · July 2005

I think BGs are good but far from perfect.

My main issue is that I have to ride from XR to the top of barrens (I imagine this is alot more annoying for alliance as ashenvale isn't really the center of their travel) when I want a game but seeing as they are sorting that out then I can't rant about it ::::19::

My other main issue is the fact that it needs 5 people per team (wsg I mean of course) to have a game and for it to actually keep going, i'd rather see that they brought it down to 3 then cap the other team to 2 more than they have so as to stop it from being a complete gankfest. I get to many games where we have 5 people and they have 3 then the game just ends after having waited 3 hours due to a lack of people. ::::25::

But when it gets going I find it very fun and it's nice to have an even fight with alliance for once instead of 500 vs 1 ::::35:: Usually on weekends and the day before they calculate the ranks its extremely busy which is good. Seem to find that Horde win in BGs, I think out of maybe 50 games I have played I have only lost 5 or 6 on my server ::::01::

1 other thing that they should sort is the stalemates where both teams have the flags and are hiding, i've gone for nearly 30 minutes before at 0 - 0 just because we can't get the flags back. Maybe they should put a 5 minute reset on flags ::::28::

I've only tried wsg so far as there is hardly ever an av game going ::::16::

Oh and p.s. Druids shouldn't be able to travel form with the flag ::::12::

j-monster · July 2005

Originally posted by Shlub

Oh and p.s. Druids shouldn't be able to travel form with the flag

lol yeah and then only the horde shammys can travel form witht he flag.

Make us lose a little more O_o ( as if that was possible)

tu_uilwen · July 2005

Originally posted by Kaltic

Anyway that won't happen, i know it wont but it would still be cool if they could make it work......acually im glad you said the Auction Houses thats one problem i had a problem with in game why would i want to go to Iron Forge to sell or buy in the AH why not Stormwind or even Darnassus (i think thats right) but no i have to leave a thousand needles and must be forces to go to Iron Forge (even though i set my hearthstone there) but still. When the server is lagging there is one place people need to go and that place is the worst the AH. If they would have spread them out much less lag i would say. All they need to do is connect the Stormwind-IronForge-Darnassus AH and it would be exactly the same for the Alliance. Now i havent played my horde character forvere so i dont know thier capitol names but it could be the same for them.

I know what your saying about having to go to a certain city to go to AH, it sux, because I have to go to LAgrimmar......

but i understand it would be cool yeah to beable to take over cities and stuff but you got to think about it, since theresno way for blizz to lower the pop of any server, theres no way horde players could take over an alliance city,but it would be fun.

And awhiel ago i heard blizz was thinking or tryingto add a AH to all the Major cities, I read that from blizz, so maybe it will be in an expansion or something.

Tang-1 · July 2005

Battlegrounds is fun. I like Warsong Gultch (10 vs 10) a lot, and the Alterac BG (40 vs 40) is nice when one is available.

However, they do get pretty repetitive. I find that I am entering wow less and less as I think to myself (I'm not in the mood for another battleground). They all go about the same, pretty much no deviation from on BG instance to another.

However, when I get lucky and get the chance to have a 1 vs 1 with a hunter, warrior, rogue etc... it's a blast. Usually, it's me getting ganked by 3 or more at a time.

In Alterac, it's similar to TM raids... usually with a heavy advantage in numbers on the alliance side.

I like BG, gives something else to do instead of instance grinding (which I have grown to dislike) and keeps me paying the monthly fee for a few more months.

Unknown · July 2005

hi

tu_uilwen · July 2005

Are you serious Ubermage......why waste everyones time here.

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