You know I've been wondering about that whole "there's no content in this game". Sure its mainly kill task and fed-x but please has anyone played EQ2 yet? uck, its the same thing only slower and you have to listen to them talk on top of it.
I had a few quest so far that where along the lines of a standard quest. I also know that there is a ton of dragon quest but I'm dont have any real info on that.
I usually load up a town marshal task, a trophy hunter task and maybe get a class trainer quest and a crafter task. On top of that I still have that Trial of the gifted(?) quest I haven't even started yet.
So Im pretty full.
In EQ2, which my account expires today or tomorow, I have about 20 or so task that are basicly the same thing, deliver a letter, a bag, kill 5 of this, kill 10 of that, collect 8 of this and return it to a mage type guy.
I agree. If the quests in other games were qualitatively different from the ones in HZ, I might agree that HZ lacks content because it has fewer quests than WoW or EQ2.
But since the quests of those 2 games are essentially just some npc telling you to go do something you could be doing anyway, with some lore thrown in maybe, they seem to be made for people who need to be told what to do rather than figuring it out for themselves. The extra xp and coin are nice but not enough to make much difference to me. I guess I am just more used to the EQ system than the dumbed-down EQ2 and WoW systems.
The new emblem quests are another thing entirely, and are very similar to the bodge/accolade quests in CoH, because you earn something that you could not earn without doing the quest.
Originally posted by ungrimagrol they seem to be made for people who need to be told what to do rather than figuring it out for themselves. The extra ust more used to the EQ system than the dumbed-down EQ2 and WoW systems. The new emblem quests are another thing entirely, and are very similar to the bodge/accolade quests in CoH, because you earn something that you could not earn without doing the quest.
The people in WoW and EQ2 both still moan about lack of content lol, there is no making MMORPGers happy. The same people also moan about the end game and countless other things.
Really ? on the emblem. I haven't looked at the quest yet I heard there is only 1 badge so far and there are some camping problems. I thinks its over now. Im looking forward to a variety. Not to thrilled about the "title" of Private. (I was a private many moons ago, its certainly nothing to brag about)
Originally posted by GRIMACHU I don't really get the whole concept of 'end game' at all, coming from a TTRPG background. There's always more to do, community building, roleplay, helping others and so on.
The idea of an endgame in MMORPG's comes from the extreamly heavy enphasis on leveling. TTRPG lends more toward the social/story driven mechanic. At this point most MMORPGs are about the trip from level 1 to level max. Very little in most of these games lends well to a true RPG experience due mainly to technical reasons. The audience races to hit level caps as soon as they possibly can by any means necessary, then, when the grind is done, wonders what to do next. Without being led around by the nose, many don't really know what to do next.
The games, at this point, cant really facilitate the type of open ended freedom that TTRPG's offer. If you want an "end game" you more or less need to create it yourself. There is usually plenty to do in any game at level cap but it depends on the type of gamer you are. The logical thing would be some sort of community building. Again depending on play style and the game mechanic. Roleplaying a particular type of character with its own personality (roleplaying) is an option at any point in the game. The audiance again, misses the point of this so badly in fact, that most MMORPG's have seperate servers for it. (role play servers so you are playing a massive online role playing game in the special "role playing" server as opposed to the "standard server) Helping those new to the community is an option also. Some game communities are better at this then others.
EQ2 has an iteresting option for this, the guild "levels", by which you increase your guilds standing in the game world. You could possibly never finish that (not sure how the mechanic works) In most games, guilds simply exsist, they are more a social club then anything dynamic to the game world. A guild in World of Warcraft, no matter how many level 60 characters it had or how many rare items it had or how many raids they do, can never have any impact on the game world. Asherons call also has an interesting take on it. Players swear alliegence to one another and build "monarchies". This elevates the characters social status in the game. Dark Age of Camelot allows guilds bonuses for taking over enemy realms Keeps that last until the Keep is lost. The Keep also has the guild banner and all NPC defenders wear the guild cloak.
I think games like World of Warcraft could do very well as a "role playing game" however the audience treats it as a playstation game racing to cap then demanding to be entertained further. I dont really think there is an "end game" in any MMORPG just a point where you the player gets bored with the environment. Until MMORPG's become more story driven (closer to the player level) and less statisics based, this is the best you will be able to do. Until that happens the best thing is to group/guild with like minded people. People who value the game experience rather then the numbers on the stat sheets. If you really think about it why can't you go on a "raid" at low level? Is all subjective. It just depends what you want to call it.
Currently Re-trying Horizons Guild Wars WoW lvl 60 Hunter DAoC lvl 50 Warrior - retired ACDM lvl 90 Axer - retired Tried but didnt stick with-FFXI, City of Heroes, UO, Anarchy Online, EQ2
Hey ungrimagrol,
Here is a post I left on a thread that was moaning about the lack of an endgame in WoW. I mean come on, no end game in WoW? I guess there is no end game in WoW if you dont like epic quest, raids and team PvP. Other then that there is nothing!
So my point is, no matter what a company does, people on forums will whine about it.
Yeah I find it funny that WoW I would crash at LEAST once a day and that this supposedly screwed up game Horizons I haven't crashed yet! I get some lag at times, but thats only about 2% of the time, mostly its flawless. And my graphics look great, if I ever find a place to host them I'll post them, but I'm a n00b at that kind of stuff still
The "endgame" for Horizons is supposed to be our great war against the WA. Geezus, for all intents and purposes over 90% of the WA was removed from the back pre-merge when they took most of the blight anchors out.
The current servers were so stressed trying to spawn mobs for the handful of people still playing they had to removed most of the blight anchors.
So what is the endgame content in Horizons again? Aside from teh killtasks really what are players supposed to do? Level?
Originally posted by SLyxsith The "endgame" for Horizons is supposed to be our great war against the WA. Geezus, for all intents and purposes over 90% of the WA was removed from the back pre-merge when they took most of the blight anchors out.
The current servers were so stressed trying to spawn mobs for the handful of people still playing they had to removed most of the blight anchors. So what is the endgame content in Horizons again? Aside from teh killtasks really what are players supposed to do? Level?
1) Blight anchors weren't added until after merge.
2) Blight anchors were bugged (sorta). They weren't much fun in their old form. The playerbase told the devs to get rid of Blight Anchors until they could be made fun, and the devs listened.
3) It had nothing to do with stressing the servers. Blight anchors didn't stress the servers any more than any other boss mob in HZ.
Pretty hard to have any type of WA war when mobs can just walk thru everything. The client is built on a console engine that was attempted to be ported to pc. It has failed which shows you why HZ is in the state it is. The engine is the stress on the servers and the data it is written with. Nothing but a new engine made for the pc can fix it. Engine + tools for new engine + porting data = maybe two years if not longer.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by SLyxsith The "endgame" for Horizons is supposed to be our great war against the WA. Geezus, for all intents and purposes over 90% of the WA was removed from the back pre-merge when they took most of the blight anchors out.
You should try playing the game again. There's now more Withered Aegis than there was pre-merge, this has been the case for over six months. As has already been pointed out, blight anchors were introduced post-merge, they weren't much fun to fight against after you'd destroyed a few dozen of them in the space of several days, so the developers have been refining blight anchors to ensure that this small feature is indeed enjoyable as they had originally intended.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Pretty hard to have any type of WA war when mobs can just walk thru everything. The client is built on a console engine that was attempted to be ported to pc. It has failed which shows you why HZ is in the state it is. The engine is the stress on the servers and the data it is written with. Nothing but a new engine made for the pc can fix it. Engine + tools for new engine + porting data = maybe two years if not longer.
That's okay. In the meantime, we can play the game as it is now, and as it improves over time.
BTW: mobs can walk through walls in most games and it is avoided through pathing strategies. Sony has been struggling with it for years in EQ and for a couple of weeks last fall after they switched to DX9 many of the mobs were burried beneath the surface of the world and couldn't be selected for attack. In EQ and in CoH you will see mobile npcs stuck various places for hours and only fixed by reboot. You'll also find npcs stuck in walls. Pc's also often get stuck various places and require GM intervention to get unstuck, since nothing else works.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Pretty hard to have any type of WA war when mobs can just walk thru everything. The client is built on a console engine that was attempted to be ported to pc. It has failed which shows you why HZ is in the state it is. The engine is the stress on the servers and the data it is written with. Nothing but a new engine made for the pc can fix it. Engine + tools for new engine + porting data = maybe two years if not longer.
That's okay. In the meantime, we can play the game as it is now, and as it improves over time.
BTW: mobs can walk through walls in most games and it is avoided through pathing strategies. Sony has been struggling with it for years in EQ and for a couple of weeks last fall after they switched to DX9 many of the mobs were burried beneath the surface of the world and couldn't be selected for attack. In EQ and in CoH you will see mobile npcs stuck various places for hours and only fixed by reboot. You'll also find npcs stuck in walls. Pc's also often get stuck various places and require GM intervention to get unstuck, since nothing else works.
Compaing HZ to EQ is not saying a lot because of the age difference between them. Stuck mobs and walking thru walks is something different and yes coh should fix that. Problem is HZ can't fix it with this engine. So if you wqant to say HZ is a 1st gen then I guess walking thru walls is ok. But lets not compare it to games like wow and EQ2 then.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Actually, we need to look to older games like EQ in order to see how games solve this problem: how do you create a persistent world that lasts for years and years (so that people keep subscribing to it and playing it) and yet keep it updated?
EQ2 and WoW will face this problem before long. Any game will face it, because technology keeps developing.
EQ is not a first generation game -- it is a multigeneration game. It is a mixture of the original world with more recently added material. The new npc models in the most recent patch (when the new tutorial was introduced) are "next generation" in conception, execution, look and behavior. The PC models and some of the npc models are mixtures of original and revised models.
Every game will need to face this issue eventually, and find ways of adapting to change and remaining competitive with brand spanking new game worlds. Most of the time it iwll be done gradually, because "next generation" graphics often require hardware that is not cvompatible with that which was required for earlier versions. Sony, for example, does not want to change so rapidly that its long time fans have to go out and buy new computers in order to play the game.
EQ2 hardware requirements are much higher than those of EQ.
People who try to categorize games simply as next generation or not next generation are oversimplifying things.
On a totally seperate subject (cause I like to jump around LOL), what MMOG's and single player games do you currently play DOZer? I just bought an oldie, Age of Empires II (with the conquests expansion). It's pretty good I must say, even though the graphics are a bit dated.
I have AOE and AOE 2, I already answered the games I play (at least online games) in another thread (in fact more than one) if you read my posts you would know that.
Have you checked out AOE 3 yet.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by gopher65 Unfortunately I don't have time to read every thread:(. I didn't even know there WAS an AoE 3. Unless you mean Age of Mythology?
Nope I mean AOE 3, I have been able to test it. Going to be a sweet game.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Comments
Me too Torak, though I have been playing for only 2 weeks. The game performs well for me, as well as any other I've played.
The game also has tons of new content that I haven't even begun to explore yet. I'm loving it.
You know I've been wondering about that whole "there's no content in this game". Sure its mainly kill task and fed-x but please has anyone played EQ2 yet? uck, its the same thing only slower and you have to listen to them talk on top of it.
I had a few quest so far that where along the lines of a standard quest. I also know that there is a ton of dragon quest but I'm dont have any real info on that.
I usually load up a town marshal task, a trophy hunter task and maybe get a class trainer quest and a crafter task. On top of that I still have that Trial of the gifted(?) quest I haven't even started yet.
So Im pretty full.
In EQ2, which my account expires today or tomorow, I have about 20 or so task that are basicly the same thing, deliver a letter, a bag, kill 5 of this, kill 10 of that, collect 8 of this and return it to a mage type guy.
I agree. If the quests in other games were qualitatively different from the ones in HZ, I might agree that HZ lacks content because it has fewer quests than WoW or EQ2.
But since the quests of those 2 games are essentially just some npc telling you to go do something you could be doing anyway, with some lore thrown in maybe, they seem to be made for people who need to be told what to do rather than figuring it out for themselves. The extra xp and coin are nice but not enough to make much difference to me. I guess I am just more used to the EQ system than the dumbed-down EQ2 and WoW systems.
The new emblem quests are another thing entirely, and are very similar to the bodge/accolade quests in CoH, because you earn something that you could not earn without doing the quest.
The people in WoW and EQ2 both still moan about lack of content lol, there is no making MMORPGers happy. The same people also moan about the end game and countless other things.
Really ? on the emblem. I haven't looked at the quest yet I heard there is only 1 badge so far and there are some camping problems. I thinks its over now. Im looking forward to a variety. Not to thrilled about the "title" of Private. (I was a private many moons ago, its certainly nothing to brag about)
The idea of an endgame in MMORPG's comes from the extreamly heavy enphasis on leveling. TTRPG lends more toward the social/story driven mechanic. At this point most MMORPGs are about the trip from level 1 to level max. Very little in most of these games lends well to a true RPG experience due mainly to technical reasons. The audience races to hit level caps as soon as they possibly can by any means necessary, then, when the grind is done, wonders what to do next. Without being led around by the nose, many don't really know what to do next.
The games, at this point, cant really facilitate the type of open ended freedom that TTRPG's offer. If you want an "end game" you more or less need to create it yourself. There is usually plenty to do in any game at level cap but it depends on the type of gamer you are. The logical thing would be some sort of community building. Again depending on play style and the game mechanic. Roleplaying a particular type of character with its own personality (roleplaying) is an option at any point in the game. The audiance again, misses the point of this so badly in fact, that most MMORPG's have seperate servers for it. (role play servers so you are playing a massive online role playing game in the special "role playing" server as opposed to the "standard server) Helping those new to the community is an option also. Some game communities are better at this then others.
EQ2 has an iteresting option for this, the guild "levels", by which you increase your guilds standing in the game world. You could possibly never finish that (not sure how the mechanic works) In most games, guilds simply exsist, they are more a social club then anything dynamic to the game world. A guild in World of Warcraft, no matter how many level 60 characters it had or how many rare items it had or how many raids they do, can never have any impact on the game world. Asherons call also has an interesting take on it. Players swear alliegence to one another and build "monarchies". This elevates the characters social status in the game. Dark Age of Camelot allows guilds bonuses for taking over enemy realms Keeps that last until the Keep is lost. The Keep also has the guild banner and all NPC defenders wear the guild cloak.
I think games like World of Warcraft could do very well as a "role playing game" however the audience treats it as a playstation game racing to cap then demanding to be entertained further. I dont really think there is an "end game" in any MMORPG just a point where you the player gets bored with the environment. Until MMORPG's become more story driven (closer to the player level) and less statisics based, this is the best you will be able to do. Until that happens the best thing is to group/guild with like minded people. People who value the game experience rather then the numbers on the stat sheets. If you really think about it why can't you go on a "raid" at low level? Is all subjective. It just depends what you want to call it.
Currently Re-trying Horizons
Guild Wars
WoW lvl 60 Hunter
DAoC lvl 50 Warrior - retired
ACDM lvl 90 Axer - retired
Tried but didnt stick with-FFXI, City of Heroes, UO, Anarchy Online, EQ2
Hey ungrimagrol,
Here is a post I left on a thread that was moaning about the lack of an endgame in WoW. I mean come on, no end game in WoW? I guess there is no end game in WoW if you dont like epic quest, raids and team PvP. Other then that there is nothing!
So my point is, no matter what a company does, people on forums will whine about it.
The "endgame" for Horizons is supposed to be our great war against the WA. Geezus, for all intents and purposes over 90% of the WA was removed from the back pre-merge when they took most of the blight anchors out.
The current servers were so stressed trying to spawn mobs for the handful of people still playing they had to removed most of the blight anchors.
So what is the endgame content in Horizons again? Aside from teh killtasks really what are players supposed to do? Level?
1) Blight anchors weren't added until after merge.
2) Blight anchors were bugged (sorta). They weren't much fun in their old form. The playerbase told the devs to get rid of Blight Anchors until they could be made fun, and the devs listened.
3) It had nothing to do with stressing the servers. Blight anchors didn't stress the servers any more than any other boss mob in HZ.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
You should try playing the game again. There's now more Withered Aegis than there was pre-merge, this has been the case for over six months. As has already been pointed out, blight anchors were introduced post-merge, they weren't much fun to fight against after you'd destroyed a few dozen of them in the space of several days, so the developers have been refining blight anchors to ensure that this small feature is indeed enjoyable as they had originally intended.
That's okay. In the meantime, we can play the game as it is now, and as it improves over time.
BTW: mobs can walk through walls in most games and it is avoided through pathing strategies. Sony has been struggling with it for years in EQ and for a couple of weeks last fall after they switched to DX9 many of the mobs were burried beneath the surface of the world and couldn't be selected for attack. In EQ and in CoH you will see mobile npcs stuck various places for hours and only fixed by reboot. You'll also find npcs stuck in walls. Pc's also often get stuck various places and require GM intervention to get unstuck, since nothing else works.
That's okay. In the meantime, we can play the game as it is now, and as it improves over time.
BTW: mobs can walk through walls in most games and it is avoided through pathing strategies. Sony has been struggling with it for years in EQ and for a couple of weeks last fall after they switched to DX9 many of the mobs were burried beneath the surface of the world and couldn't be selected for attack. In EQ and in CoH you will see mobile npcs stuck various places for hours and only fixed by reboot. You'll also find npcs stuck in walls. Pc's also often get stuck various places and require GM intervention to get unstuck, since nothing else works.
Compaing HZ to EQ is not saying a lot because of the age difference between them. Stuck mobs and walking thru walks is something different and yes coh should fix that. Problem is HZ can't fix it with this engine. So if you wqant to say HZ is a 1st gen then I guess walking thru walls is ok. But lets not compare it to games like wow and EQ2 then.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Actually, we need to look to older games like EQ in order to see how games solve this problem: how do you create a persistent world that lasts for years and years (so that people keep subscribing to it and playing it) and yet keep it updated?
EQ2 and WoW will face this problem before long. Any game will face it, because technology keeps developing.
EQ is not a first generation game -- it is a multigeneration game. It is a mixture of the original world with more recently added material. The new npc models in the most recent patch (when the new tutorial was introduced) are "next generation" in conception, execution, look and behavior. The PC models and some of the npc models are mixtures of original and revised models.
Every game will need to face this issue eventually, and find ways of adapting to change and remaining competitive with brand spanking new game worlds. Most of the time it iwll be done gradually, because "next generation" graphics often require hardware that is not cvompatible with that which was required for earlier versions. Sony, for example, does not want to change so rapidly that its long time fans have to go out and buy new computers in order to play the game.
EQ2 hardware requirements are much higher than those of EQ.
People who try to categorize games simply as next generation or not next generation are oversimplifying things.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
*pointless attempt to say something witty*
*deleted*
On a totally seperate subject (cause I like to jump around LOL), what MMOG's and single player games do you currently play DOZer? I just bought an oldie, Age of Empires II (with the conquests expansion). It's pretty good I must say, even though the graphics are a bit dated.
EDITTED stuff out
I have AOE and AOE 2, I already answered the games I play (at least online games) in another thread (in fact more than one) if you read my posts you would know that.
Have you checked out AOE 3 yet.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Unfortunately I don't have time to read every thread:(.
I didn't even know there WAS an AoE 3. Unless you mean Age of Mythology?
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee