If he can survive the Cata mess when the exit doors started revolving, then Kungfu Panda's shouldn't be too much of an issue for his Blizzard paycheck.
He obviously has the backing of the board to continue with this strategy. It seems pretty obvious that they have identified the far eastern market as their growth strategy - business in business and knowing the asian love of mmos, this seems a pretty good move.
It will disappoint some people, but since when have wow changes pleased everyone?
Judge's verdict - everybody was Kungfu fighting, those Pandas fast as lightning.......
I've seen a lot of people saying this so I've got to wonder if you think that any non-Asia based company that puts out an Asian themed expansion is "going after the Asian market?" I guess that's what AoC was doing when they put out the Khitai expansion.
If he can survive the Cata mess when the exit doors started revolving, then Kungfu Panda's shouldn't be too much of an issue for his Blizzard paycheck.
He obviously has the backing of the board to continue with this strategy. It seems pretty obvious that they have identified the far eastern market as their growth strategy - business in business and knowing the asian love of mmos, this seems a pretty good move.
It will disappoint some people, but since when have wow changes pleased everyone?
Judge's verdict - everybody was Kungfu fighting, those Pandas fast as lightning.......
I've seen a lot of people saying this so I've got to wonder if you think that any non-Asia based company that puts out an Asian themed expansion is "going after the Asian market?" I guess that's what AoC was doing when they put out the Khitai expansion.
Because we all know that anything Asian themed is only enjoyed by the Asian market, its not like martial arts(movies,athletes,martial arts gyms,mixed martial arts fightclubs like the UFC) ever really became popular anywhere but in Asia or something right?
I'm no fan of Greg Street, and there is definitely no doubt that his direction has harmed the game more than it has improved it, but he doesn't deserve to be fired because of MoP.
If anything, he deserves to be fired for his blatant favortism of Warriors ever since he took over. I'm obviously joking, but the point is that if Blizzard were going to terminate him they would have done it already, especially considering all the fuel he has poured directly onto raging fires over the years.
Hey OP since Metzen is the lead guy that comes up with the lore and all that and greg street just works mostly on talent trees and such i'd say no...i want to use harsher language because i hate stupid people but i'll be nice this time.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Everyone is just now leaveing WOW? I thought everyone was going to leave when engineers gained the knowledge to tinker helicoptors. And any that didnt left because of dungeon finder. And then the ones that were left were all leaving due to Cata. So now everyone is really leaveing again?
Great post haha.
WoW subs are like a hydra, where one sub is cut off, two more will replace it.
Love it or hate it the facts are Mists of Pandaria has caused a huge amount of negativity on the internet . In the event the expansion underperforms in terms of units sold should Greg Street be fired from his job as lead systems designer of World of Warcraft .
The simple fact is that there are too many people involved in the expansion to single one out. If you think it is a bad idea then there are well over 20 people that need to be held accountable.
Making mistakes isn't something you fire people over, it's no learning from them that get's you fired. Everyone makes mistakes, from the CEO to the mail room. You invest a lot in employees, you don't toss them to the curb. Dozens of people were involved in the new expansion being green lighted. Those people were confident enough in the expansion to bring it to market.
Your opinion at this point does not outweight dozens, if not hundreds of professionals working on the expansion. When the expansion finally launches, then we'll see who deserves a paycheck and who is blowing hot air.
Talents were streamlined for Cata and he still couldn't get it right. I remember when the Hunter community had to tell him how the Hunter mechanics worked on the boards. After the boards show him how the specifics worked (I cant remember exactly what the subject was) he corrected it.
Now, talents of so basic and fundemental, it has become a joke.
More time to margaritas in the afternoon for him. All while the game just goes down the "stupid" road.
No of course not. I don't believe in taking away a person's livelyhood for a mistake.
And regardless that he is the head of development, he is not the head of the company. I'm sure there are checks and balances so that he can't do anything he wants.
If it does poorly then they need to have a meeting and really discuss the direction of their game.
I highly suspect that it won't do as poorly as people would want. My guess is that the majority fo wow players won't care.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
He and Chilton should have never become lead designers, Chilton destroyed UO and Greg Street is a pvp maniac at heart, his removing of MMOG like features over the years is the best example.
The guy should have been sacked long ago right now I don't think Blizzard cares too much about WoW anyway, their best developers are working on the ultra dumbed down game known as p. Titan.
I know many hope he will get sacked but its not gonna happen, just look at all his nerfs/buffs the guy can basically do what he wants and no one at Blizzard cares, which is really sad.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
No, he should be sacked for a lot of other reasons though. He is personally responsible for horrible changes to a game he still does not understand. Changes that usually have the exact opposite impact on the game than he said they would. He should also be fired for talking about said game with horrible understanding of the mechanics he's responsible for and then feeling hurt when players had to correct him. So hurt that he now only talks down to said players from his ivory tower of a blog.
Love it or hate it the facts are Mists of Pandaria has caused a huge amount of negativity on the internet . In the event the expansion underperforms in terms of units sold should Greg Street be fired from his job as lead systems designer of World of Warcraft .
The simple fact is that there are too many people involved in the expansion to single one out. If you think it is a bad idea then there are well over 20 people that need to be held accountable.
Making mistakes isn't something you fire people over, it's no learning from them that get's you fired. Everyone makes mistakes, from the CEO to the mail room. You invest a lot in employees, you don't toss them to the curb. Dozens of people were involved in the new expansion being green lighted. Those people were confident enough in the expansion to bring it to market.
Your opinion at this point does not outweight dozens, if not hundreds of professionals working on the expansion. When the expansion finally launches, then we'll see who deserves a paycheck and who is blowing hot air.
Yes actually it is something you fire people over if they are in charge . It depends on how big the mistake is and how damaging it is .
At the end of the day no one will probably fire Greg Street but if things go badly then pressure on him to resign will be such that he will have no other option . A bit like Richard Nixon in Watergate for example . He jumped before he was pushed .
Love it or hate it the facts are Mists of Pandaria has caused a huge amount of negativity on the internet . In the event the expansion underperforms in terms of units sold should Greg Street be fired from his job as lead systems designer of World of Warcraft .
The simple fact is that there are too many people involved in the expansion to single one out. If you think it is a bad idea then there are well over 20 people that need to be held accountable.
Making mistakes isn't something you fire people over, it's no learning from them that get's you fired. Everyone makes mistakes, from the CEO to the mail room. You invest a lot in employees, you don't toss them to the curb. Dozens of people were involved in the new expansion being green lighted. Those people were confident enough in the expansion to bring it to market.
Your opinion at this point does not outweight dozens, if not hundreds of professionals working on the expansion. When the expansion finally launches, then we'll see who deserves a paycheck and who is blowing hot air.
Yes actually it is something you fire people over if they are in charge . It depends on how big the mistake is and how damaging it is .
At the end of the day no one will probably fire Greg Street but if things go badly then pressure on him to resign will be such that he will have no other option . A bit like Richard Nixon in Watergate for example . He jumped before he was pushed .
Pandagate . (joke).
Everyone makes mistakes. Admit them, correct them, and move on. The things he does are not just simple mistakes. The fact that they reinforce an image of complete lack of understanding on his part is a very valid reason to fire him. The fact that he will not concede them as wrong until an entire expansion later regardless of proof proves he still needs to grow up and act like a professional. Which could also be said for several others working there as well.
No of course not. I don't believe in taking away a person's livelyhood for a mistake.
And regardless that he is the head of development, he is not the head of the company. I'm sure there are checks and balances so that he can't do anything he wants.
If it does poorly then they need to have a meeting and really discuss the direction of their game.
I highly suspect that it won't do as poorly as people would want. My guess is that the majority fo wow players won't care.
If your in charge and the mistake is so big its damaging to the company your work for then the buck stops with you .
Small mistakes by people further down the ladder are a totally different thing .
That said, someone else said it best about the Pandas. "They are no more ridiculous than any other WoW race." I'm more concerned with their continued changes to talents that remove all choice when they say the opposite. And by that I mean that what little choices they tried to add in Cat and MoP are not really a choice to begin with. You can't choose things that have little to no impact on your character and feel good about it. Having a choice in things that don't really matter is not a real choice.
Im wondering if the amount of losses in the EU NA market will be made up for in the Asian market. As a person thats spent some time there, they love te hell out of pandas!
Meh, not sure honestly. China has legislation in place to prohibit and limit the explotation of pandas.
People think "Omg China loves anything panda related" but the reverence that they have for the panda is more akin to the reverence India has for cows. Not quite to the extreme of India but it's close.
That said, someone else said it best about the Pandas. "They are no more rediculous than any other WoW race." I'm more concerned with their continued changes to talents that remove all choice when they say the opposite. And by that I mean that what little choices they tried to add in Cat and MoP are not really a choice to begin with. You can't choose things that have little to no impact on your character and feel good about it. Having a choice in things that don't really matter is not a real choice.
Your opinion doesnt' change facts?
Sorry ...
This has been a well known fact for a long long time that the people who log into the forums ARE the vocal minority. If you have been paying attention to any blog posts or forum posts or frankly been active in the community you'd know how little we have an effect on it, and how our opinions are VERY RARELY inline with the main stream players.
Notice, WoW is WAAAAY down on the populairty list on this website, yet some how its the most played MMO of all time?
Gee, I wonder if thats because of the audience of this site?
Edit: Also you are entitled to your opinion on the talent trees, however saying they dont' provide actual choice is just wrong... factually incorrect...
why would Blizzard sack someone who is gonna be helping them make a cool few million $ profit?? (and thats prolly only the first month of MoP).
If Blizzard went in the direction the 1% (or whatever low percentage it is) of their customers who come to boards like this to state why their opinions are right then WoW would have probably gone f2p around Burning Crusade time due to lack of subs.
Love it or hate it the facts are Mists of Pandaria has caused a huge amount of negativity on the internet .
Also I've seen a lot of positivity too...
I think you see what you wanna see...
I've had multiple friends start logging on again since MoP was announced BECAUSE of its features.
Had one friend start playing WoW for the first time in three years when they announced the pokemon fighting type system.
In short, no, MoP will be a great ex pack, you guys are in the vocal minority still, don't forget it, all of us are.
Forum goers ARE the vocal minority.
Then why did Blizzard feel a need to come out and defend this expansion ?
Also forum goers are just as likly to the ardent fanboy with a possative view as someone with a negative view so it is a pretty even mix and a good barometer of whats going on .
From friends in WoW I hear the views of the community seam to be pretty much split down the middle in regards to MOP . If thats true then its unpresidented in WoW and it means a large chunk of thier playerbase isn't happy .
why would Blizzard sack someone who is gonna be helping them make a cool few million $ profit?? (and thats prolly only the first month of MoP).
If Blizzard went in the direction the 1% (or whatever low percentage it is) of their customers who come to boards like this to state why their opinions are right then WoW would have probably gone f2p around Burning Crusade time due to lack of subs.
This really refers to what I said earlier . At what point will it considered to be a error of judgement . The expansion itself will make money but if it signifcantly underperforms compared to the last one and leads to a drop in the number of subs over a year following its release then it will be deamed a faliure .
That said, someone else said it best about the Pandas. "They are no more rediculous than any other WoW race." I'm more concerned with their continued changes to talents that remove all choice when they say the opposite. And by that I mean that what little choices they tried to add in Cat and MoP are not really a choice to begin with. You can't choose things that have little to no impact on your character and feel good about it. Having a choice in things that don't really matter is not a real choice.
Your opinion doesnt' change facts?
Sorry ...
This has been a well known fact for a long long time that the people who log into the forums ARE the vocal minority. If you have been paying attention to any blog posts or forum posts or frankly been active in the community you'd know how little we have an effect on it, and how our opinions are VERY RARELY inline with the main stream players.
Notice, WoW is WAAAAY down on the populairty list on this website, yet some how its the most played MMO of all time?
Gee, I wonder if thats because of the audience of this site?
There is way more to consider. The amount of people still playing is also relative to the amount of people who don't stop paying for a game while they are paying for and playing several others. It's also relative to the amount of "good" choices in the mmo market at this time. People are still waiting for new games. Those numbers show who is paying at the moment, but are not a good prediction of tomorrow. They aren't even a good indicator for the true population of a game at any given time.
I think you underestimate what feedback is given in comparison to how they try to belittle the value of the forums, the amount of emails you never see, the amount of people who quit without a word and leave Blizz guessing as to why, and the people who agree or disagree but realise no one is listening and posting so would have no impact on the people making the decisions because they straight up tell you that your opinion is not valued. Blizz treats the forums as step children. They prefer blogs where you can't question their egos.
This site is more of an unbiased site in that negative comments are not removed as trolling. You get both opinions as long as it's thought out. Meanwhile negative posts are deleted on the WoW forums as trolling while leaving pages of "umadbro" "QQ" is encouraged.
Comments
I've seen a lot of people saying this so I've got to wonder if you think that any non-Asia based company that puts out an Asian themed expansion is "going after the Asian market?" I guess that's what AoC was doing when they put out the Khitai expansion.
Steam: Neph
Because we all know that anything Asian themed is only enjoyed by the Asian market, its not like martial arts(movies,athletes,martial arts gyms,mixed martial arts fightclubs like the UFC) ever really became popular anywhere but in Asia or something right?
I wouldn't wish a sacking on anyone, not being that kind of person. Karma bites back. Right on the ass.
Absolutely not.
I'm no fan of Greg Street, and there is definitely no doubt that his direction has harmed the game more than it has improved it, but he doesn't deserve to be fired because of MoP.
If anything, he deserves to be fired for his blatant favortism of Warriors ever since he took over. I'm obviously joking, but the point is that if Blizzard were going to terminate him they would have done it already, especially considering all the fuel he has poured directly onto raging fires over the years.
Hey OP since Metzen is the lead guy that comes up with the lore and all that and greg street just works mostly on talent trees and such i'd say no...i want to use harsher language because i hate stupid people but i'll be nice this time.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Great post haha.
WoW subs are like a hydra, where one sub is cut off, two more will replace it.
Yeah ,I watched Captain America recently
The simple fact is that there are too many people involved in the expansion to single one out. If you think it is a bad idea then there are well over 20 people that need to be held accountable.
Making mistakes isn't something you fire people over, it's no learning from them that get's you fired. Everyone makes mistakes, from the CEO to the mail room. You invest a lot in employees, you don't toss them to the curb. Dozens of people were involved in the new expansion being green lighted. Those people were confident enough in the expansion to bring it to market.
Your opinion at this point does not outweight dozens, if not hundreds of professionals working on the expansion. When the expansion finally launches, then we'll see who deserves a paycheck and who is blowing hot air.
He sure should be.
I felt that way after Cata came out.
Talents were streamlined for Cata and he still couldn't get it right. I remember when the Hunter community had to tell him how the Hunter mechanics worked on the boards. After the boards show him how the specifics worked (I cant remember exactly what the subject was) he corrected it.
Now, talents of so basic and fundemental, it has become a joke.
More time to margaritas in the afternoon for him. All while the game just goes down the "stupid" road.
They need someone there who is more committed.
No of course not. I don't believe in taking away a person's livelyhood for a mistake.
And regardless that he is the head of development, he is not the head of the company. I'm sure there are checks and balances so that he can't do anything he wants.
If it does poorly then they need to have a meeting and really discuss the direction of their game.
I highly suspect that it won't do as poorly as people would want. My guess is that the majority fo wow players won't care.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Blizzard don't make good games but they have a great marketing strategy.
Marketing gets you to buy or try something. It doesnt explain why so many play and have played the game for years.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
He and Chilton should have never become lead designers, Chilton destroyed UO and Greg Street is a pvp maniac at heart, his removing of MMOG like features over the years is the best example.
The guy should have been sacked long ago right now I don't think Blizzard cares too much about WoW anyway, their best developers are working on the ultra dumbed down game known as p. Titan.
I know many hope he will get sacked but its not gonna happen, just look at all his nerfs/buffs the guy can basically do what he wants and no one at Blizzard cares, which is really sad.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
No, he should be sacked for a lot of other reasons though. He is personally responsible for horrible changes to a game he still does not understand. Changes that usually have the exact opposite impact on the game than he said they would. He should also be fired for talking about said game with horrible understanding of the mechanics he's responsible for and then feeling hurt when players had to correct him. So hurt that he now only talks down to said players from his ivory tower of a blog.
Yes actually it is something you fire people over if they are in charge . It depends on how big the mistake is and how damaging it is .
At the end of the day no one will probably fire Greg Street but if things go badly then pressure on him to resign will be such that he will have no other option . A bit like Richard Nixon in Watergate for example . He jumped before he was pushed .
Pandagate . (joke).
I wish there was a "are you serious dude?" Option in this poll.
Everyone makes mistakes. Admit them, correct them, and move on. The things he does are not just simple mistakes. The fact that they reinforce an image of complete lack of understanding on his part is a very valid reason to fire him. The fact that he will not concede them as wrong until an entire expansion later regardless of proof proves he still needs to grow up and act like a professional. Which could also be said for several others working there as well.
Also I've seen a lot of positivity too...
I think you see what you wanna see...
I've had multiple friends start logging on again since MoP was announced BECAUSE of its features.
Had one friend start playing WoW for the first time in three years when they announced the pokemon fighting type system.
In short, no, MoP will be a great ex pack, you guys are in the vocal minority still, don't forget it, all of us are.
Forum goers ARE the vocal minority.
If your in charge and the mistake is so big its damaging to the company your work for then the buck stops with you .
Small mistakes by people further down the ladder are a totally different thing .
So wrong on so many levels.
That said, someone else said it best about the Pandas. "They are no more ridiculous than any other WoW race." I'm more concerned with their continued changes to talents that remove all choice when they say the opposite. And by that I mean that what little choices they tried to add in Cat and MoP are not really a choice to begin with. You can't choose things that have little to no impact on your character and feel good about it. Having a choice in things that don't really matter is not a real choice.
Meh, not sure honestly. China has legislation in place to prohibit and limit the explotation of pandas.
People think "Omg China loves anything panda related" but the reverence that they have for the panda is more akin to the reverence India has for cows. Not quite to the extreme of India but it's close.
Your opinion doesnt' change facts?
Sorry ...
This has been a well known fact for a long long time that the people who log into the forums ARE the vocal minority. If you have been paying attention to any blog posts or forum posts or frankly been active in the community you'd know how little we have an effect on it, and how our opinions are VERY RARELY inline with the main stream players.
Notice, WoW is WAAAAY down on the populairty list on this website, yet some how its the most played MMO of all time?
Gee, I wonder if thats because of the audience of this site?
Edit: Also you are entitled to your opinion on the talent trees, however saying they dont' provide actual choice is just wrong... factually incorrect...
sorry.
why would Blizzard sack someone who is gonna be helping them make a cool few million $ profit?? (and thats prolly only the first month of MoP).
If Blizzard went in the direction the 1% (or whatever low percentage it is) of their customers who come to boards like this to state why their opinions are right then WoW would have probably gone f2p around Burning Crusade time due to lack of subs.
Then why did Blizzard feel a need to come out and defend this expansion ?
Also forum goers are just as likly to the ardent fanboy with a possative view as someone with a negative view so it is a pretty even mix and a good barometer of whats going on .
From friends in WoW I hear the views of the community seam to be pretty much split down the middle in regards to MOP . If thats true then its unpresidented in WoW and it means a large chunk of thier playerbase isn't happy .
This really refers to what I said earlier . At what point will it considered to be a error of judgement . The expansion itself will make money but if it signifcantly underperforms compared to the last one and leads to a drop in the number of subs over a year following its release then it will be deamed a faliure .
There is way more to consider. The amount of people still playing is also relative to the amount of people who don't stop paying for a game while they are paying for and playing several others. It's also relative to the amount of "good" choices in the mmo market at this time. People are still waiting for new games. Those numbers show who is paying at the moment, but are not a good prediction of tomorrow. They aren't even a good indicator for the true population of a game at any given time.
I think you underestimate what feedback is given in comparison to how they try to belittle the value of the forums, the amount of emails you never see, the amount of people who quit without a word and leave Blizz guessing as to why, and the people who agree or disagree but realise no one is listening and posting so would have no impact on the people making the decisions because they straight up tell you that your opinion is not valued. Blizz treats the forums as step children. They prefer blogs where you can't question their egos.
This site is more of an unbiased site in that negative comments are not removed as trolling. You get both opinions as long as it's thought out. Meanwhile negative posts are deleted on the WoW forums as trolling while leaving pages of "umadbro" "QQ" is encouraged.
[edit] reworded for clarity [/edit]