Eq2 Extended is probably one of the least Pay 2 Win games out there. All the Cash Shop stuff is Mounts, fluff items, and XP pots.
The whole loot selling thing is done by the Players not SoE. If anything SoE trys to prevent it by putting NO-TRADE tags on everything but when you have willing sellers and willing buyers making these trades the community will get arround the tags.
Eq2 Extended is probably one of the least Pay 2 Win games out there. All the Cash Shop stuff is Mounts, fluff items, and XP pots.
The whole loot selling thing is done by the Players not SoE. If anything SoE trys to prevent it by putting NO-TRADE tags on everything but when you have willing sellers and willing buyers making these trades the community will get arround the tags.
By puting those no trade tags on items makes games less fun.Imo,you should be able to trade or give your old sword to another player when you find better sword.
Actually one of the things that I really liked in the original everquest was going from merchant to merchant looking for items that other people had sold and buying them. This included making the hidden slots visible... So many times did I manage to uncover stacks of spider silk beneath some worthless stuff. It was fun and it was a way of intelligently profiting off other peoples' ignorance or sloth.
Asheron's call had merchants that kept items for only so long... This was also ok as there were so many items entering the game. Many times I would stay in a rocking town and buy back items that people sold to shop.
----
Now pretty much every game makes it so vendors take anything you sell to them and put them away in the "raiders of the lost ark warehouse." Nobody ever gets to see the items you sell to shop. How in the world do they stay in business if they never sell what others sell to them?
Actually one of the things that I really liked in the original everquest was going from merchant to merchant looking for items that other people had sold and buying them. This included making the hidden slots visible... So many times did I manage to uncover stacks of spider silk beneath some worthless stuff. It was fun and it was a way of intelligently profiting off other peoples' ignorance or sloth.
Asheron's call had merchants that kept items for only so long... This was also ok as there were so many items entering the game. Many times I would stay in a rocking town and buy back items that people sold to shop.
----
Now pretty much every game makes it so vendors take anything you sell to them and put them away in the "raiders of the lost ark warehouse." Nobody ever gets to see the items you sell to shop. How in the world do they stay in business if they never sell what others sell to them?
WE are going throu very boring time of the mmo-games, tings will start to look more like it was earlyer in few years, hold on:-)
Make no item overpowered. Sandbox games do this really well...back when I played UO, items were lost and replaced just as quickly. I don't remember needing to go on a raid to get an epic sword, that only 1% of the MMO population would ever see.
Make no item overpowered. Sandbox games do this really well...back when I played UO, items were lost and replaced just as quickly. I don't remember needing to go on a raid to get an epic sword, that only 1% of the MMO population would ever see.
People still RMTed in UO. Did you forget about the ebay auctions? Castles, gold, top end magic equipment (they did make a difference in pvp), rare items, wands with rare and useful echantments, etc.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I totally agree with your point. It's just that as a crafter I've never seen a crafter make anything at all that would be sold for exp. 5000 plat. As a crafter I can't stand this. However, I don't blame people for loot runs and plat runs. If the game lets you..go for it. Just as a crafter this makes me not even want to play the game. MMO's need a complete retool idea or concept soon or the industry will be a joke. ... well for those of us who have been playing MMO for years. The market is pro-console when it comes to MMO atm. Only a handful of games that are still to come that could bring balance to the force...I mean industry. We just have alot of Vaders atm...waiting on Luke aka XLgames too save me from the noobs of the MMO world. If ya never played UO or original EQ, not the present EQ , or good ol Pre-Jedi SWG. Ya don;t have a damn clue...Thx for playing....
Jymm Byuu Playing : Blood Bowl. Waiting for 2. Holding breath for Archeage and EQN.
I play eq2 from time to time and though i think its the best mmo out there at the moment ,I feel SoE indirectly is encouraging pay to win.
Basically in most mmo i played in other to win an item you have to be present at the kill.this can be a drawback for people who are willing to pay to win because the raid has to create a slot for you,you probably have to spent time following them and they hope you don't do something to wipe them and more importantly the price is fixed before you go in .all very troublesome for those selling and buying looting rights.
In EQ2 its not so.Raid does its buisness and then puts in auction channel the loot and anyone can bid for it get zoned in and out ,and they don't even have to be there for the kill.
This was something a looong time ago SoE actually planned to fix but then stopped suddenly.Same time they stopped what is called the plat run which also was meant to be fixed.Plat run means 2 guys can go into an old zone and wipe it which was originally meant for 24 ppl and get loads of plat aka gold.
What this has lead to is now raids are boxed by 1 or 2 ppl who sell this looting rights and in return people buying it sell back game card and station cash which can be used for exp potions,actual 30 day subs,mounts etc .
This is done openly .
I was in an instance with a freshly levelled 90 guy who had pretty poor gear.Next day i see him selling 25 gamecards for plat aka gold in channel.Same day i see him making high bids for raid loot.Few days later the dungeon finder pair us up and he is decked in gear which all comes from hard mode and some easy mode but highest raid zones.
His story is common and i can't help to think while people do buy their way to best loot and wins ,SoE actually thru error or intentional but certainly plan to keep the system has made it so easy and open to be able to deck a character in best gear if he is willing to shell $400+ to them.
They gain because raiders who sell this loot rights now use 6+ accounts each rather then the single one they pay for previously and the raiders get their accounts paid for buy people like this dude.
1. 'Plat runs' like you mentioned have been in games for a while, its not an EQ2 thing. I used to make a ton of easy money in WoW going to old raid zones and solo/duoing them.
2. This system doesnt get SoE much extra money. If Billy buys game time from bob or buys game time form SoE, its still the same amount of money going to SoE. Now maybe a few raiders have extra accounts that wouldnt, but that number is probably low as multiboxing happens anyway.
3. They really cant remove it now. Most of these transactions have nothing to do with rl money, its raiders gearing their alts or smart 'casuals' that have built money playing the broker or other legit methods. The whole thing shows that SoE doesnt have enough plat sinks.
There is nothing morally wrong with this system. The person who wnats to spend some cash on time cards can get a head start, but in the long run he cant get any more powerful than anyone else. And tis not like they are the first to allow game time to be sold in game by players. Pretty sure EvE had this in as well.
2. This system doesnt get SoE much extra money. If Billy buys game time from bob or buys game time form SoE, its still the same amount of money going to SoE. Now maybe a few raiders have extra accounts that wouldnt, but that number is probably low as multiboxing happens anyway.
This, people. Everyone who's screaming up and down about the people who pay Sony big money for game cards forgets that all the people who end up using those game cards don't pay Sony anything. If I'm understanding the system correctly, the only thing Sony gets out of it is a windfall because cards that are purchased might not be used until several months later.
Originally posted by teakbois
There is nothing morally wrong with this system. The person who wnats to spend some cash on time cards can get a head start, but in the long run he cant get any more powerful than anyone else. And tis not like they are the first to allow game time to be sold in game by players. Pretty sure EvE had this in as well.
This too. We're not talking pay-to-win here, but rather pay-to-accelerate. If, for some oddball reason, you're willing to drop a few hundo to gear out a character instead of earning money the hard way, all you're doing is speeding up the process. It's nothing that another player couldn't do just by spending some time grinding. The loathsome P2W moniker ought to be saved for games where non-paying players cannot compete against paying players because of the advantages bestowed by cash shop items. This is nothing but a time-saver. It doesn't make you reach unattainable levels of power.
EQ at one point had a lot of gear which wasn't bind on equip. The result: You couldn't sell jack...ever. When there are 10k flowing black silk sashes running around you couldn't even give the things away.
Bad idea. Please don't bring real life rules into games. In many ways it just won't translate.
Sorry, is this happening on the EQX servers or the sub only servers? No one has stated. When I played they were different, are they all the same now? Does everyone just play the free server and sub? I played on the sub servers earlier this year and did not see anything like this, although I never raided really. Generally, pay-to-win refers to people who buy their power in PvP games, not pve games. No one gives a shit if you buy your power in PvE games, just don't group with that person. In PvP games, it's problematic for obvious reasons.
Sorry, is this happening on the EQX servers or the sub only servers? No one has stated. When I played they were different, are they all the same now? Does everyone just play the free server and sub? I played on the sub servers earlier this year and did not see anything like this, although I never raided really. Generally, pay-to-win refers to people who buy their power in PvP games, not pve games. No one gives a shit if you buy your power in PvE games, just don't group with that person. In PvP games, it's problematic for obvious reasons.
it is happening on main aka sub only servers.it is pve gear not pvp.eq2 is mostly a pve game.
All MMO's are either Pay to Win or headed that way, sad but there it is.
How long before gamers realise that it will be in their genre soon? This is a way of making profit, so they will look to other genres to do the same, FPS is next imo.
Pay To Win i only consider if the game's gimicks for paying actually give you an advantage you can't obtain anywhere. Things like XP potions aren't really 'advantages' in the fact it just lessens the time it takes to level.
That being said, SoE does have a business model of "Milk the consumer of the money with the least effort on us to add content as possible". EQ2X anyone? I haven't seen a 'f2p' model as much of a rip off as that. Not only do you get a large disadvantage, but if you do decide to pay, your paying far more then what others pay on the regular servers, and you even LOSE OUT on content!
the saga continues.loads of unhappy customers.an expansion with zero content been marketed as a feature expansion with full expansion prices $40 or $90 for collectors.
merger of f2p and p2p under f2p model to booster the already pay to win system soe on purpose permits.
42 pages and counting of unhappy long tme customers.same mistake as swg .annoy long term customers and pray to drag in new customers.we all know how that ended.
How can people respect EQ2 as a game if most major gear upgrades aren't BOP? It's fine to get a couple upgrades through BOEs (AH-purchaseable), but terrible if you can deck your character out completely (or even mostly) in BOE gear.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
All SoE games are pay to win atm. You can buy xp, items, potions, recruit a friend gives you 3 times as much xp. SoE is a horrible company.
the items you refer to are mounts -- same thing WOW sells in the cash shop
if it was just mounts I would have said mounts, in EQ you can buy XP potions, gear, items, potions, sex change, race change, special zones, pets, trinkets, tradeskill potions that make you never fail, etc....
that's a whole lot more than "mounts"
it's more than all of the F2P games I have played too, many F2P games don't offer XP potions or gear
with yesterday announcement i think soe is really in serious trouble and pulling all the tricks now for a $ but question is can they do it without annoying the loyal fans .
Comments
Eq2 Extended is probably one of the least Pay 2 Win games out there. All the Cash Shop stuff is Mounts, fluff items, and XP pots.
The whole loot selling thing is done by the Players not SoE. If anything SoE trys to prevent it by putting NO-TRADE tags on everything but when you have willing sellers and willing buyers making these trades the community will get arround the tags.
By puting those no trade tags on items makes games less fun.Imo,you should be able to trade or give your old sword to another player when you find better sword.
I think that no items should be bound in pickup or even bound when equip. How would it be if your new car was bound,or even the vife, how boring.
Actually one of the things that I really liked in the original everquest was going from merchant to merchant looking for items that other people had sold and buying them. This included making the hidden slots visible... So many times did I manage to uncover stacks of spider silk beneath some worthless stuff. It was fun and it was a way of intelligently profiting off other peoples' ignorance or sloth.
Asheron's call had merchants that kept items for only so long... This was also ok as there were so many items entering the game. Many times I would stay in a rocking town and buy back items that people sold to shop.
----
Now pretty much every game makes it so vendors take anything you sell to them and put them away in the "raiders of the lost ark warehouse." Nobody ever gets to see the items you sell to shop. How in the world do they stay in business if they never sell what others sell to them?
WE are going throu very boring time of the mmo-games, tings will start to look more like it was earlyer in few years, hold on:-)
Here is a sollution to pay to win.
Make no item overpowered. Sandbox games do this really well...back when I played UO, items were lost and replaced just as quickly. I don't remember needing to go on a raid to get an epic sword, that only 1% of the MMO population would ever see.
People still RMTed in UO. Did you forget about the ebay auctions? Castles, gold, top end magic equipment (they did make a difference in pvp), rare items, wands with rare and useful echantments, etc.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I totally agree with your point. It's just that as a crafter I've never seen a crafter make anything at all that would be sold for exp. 5000 plat. As a crafter I can't stand this. However, I don't blame people for loot runs and plat runs. If the game lets you..go for it. Just as a crafter this makes me not even want to play the game. MMO's need a complete retool idea or concept soon or the industry will be a joke. ... well for those of us who have been playing MMO for years. The market is pro-console when it comes to MMO atm. Only a handful of games that are still to come that could bring balance to the force...I mean industry. We just have alot of Vaders atm...waiting on Luke aka XLgames too save me from the noobs of the MMO world. If ya never played UO or original EQ, not the present EQ , or good ol Pre-Jedi SWG. Ya don;t have a damn clue...Thx for playing....
Jymm Byuu
Playing : Blood Bowl. Waiting for 2. Holding breath for Archeage and EQN.
1. 'Plat runs' like you mentioned have been in games for a while, its not an EQ2 thing. I used to make a ton of easy money in WoW going to old raid zones and solo/duoing them.
2. This system doesnt get SoE much extra money. If Billy buys game time from bob or buys game time form SoE, its still the same amount of money going to SoE. Now maybe a few raiders have extra accounts that wouldnt, but that number is probably low as multiboxing happens anyway.
3. They really cant remove it now. Most of these transactions have nothing to do with rl money, its raiders gearing their alts or smart 'casuals' that have built money playing the broker or other legit methods. The whole thing shows that SoE doesnt have enough plat sinks.
There is nothing morally wrong with this system. The person who wnats to spend some cash on time cards can get a head start, but in the long run he cant get any more powerful than anyone else. And tis not like they are the first to allow game time to be sold in game by players. Pretty sure EvE had this in as well.
This, people. Everyone who's screaming up and down about the people who pay Sony big money for game cards forgets that all the people who end up using those game cards don't pay Sony anything. If I'm understanding the system correctly, the only thing Sony gets out of it is a windfall because cards that are purchased might not be used until several months later.
This too. We're not talking pay-to-win here, but rather pay-to-accelerate. If, for some oddball reason, you're willing to drop a few hundo to gear out a character instead of earning money the hard way, all you're doing is speeding up the process. It's nothing that another player couldn't do just by spending some time grinding. The loathsome P2W moniker ought to be saved for games where non-paying players cannot compete against paying players because of the advantages bestowed by cash shop items. This is nothing but a time-saver. It doesn't make you reach unattainable levels of power.
EQ at one point had a lot of gear which wasn't bind on equip. The result: You couldn't sell jack...ever. When there are 10k flowing black silk sashes running around you couldn't even give the things away.
Bad idea. Please don't bring real life rules into games. In many ways it just won't translate.
i wonder if soe will carry this model to its future games if so it will be pretty much sad.
Sorry, is this happening on the EQX servers or the sub only servers? No one has stated. When I played they were different, are they all the same now? Does everyone just play the free server and sub? I played on the sub servers earlier this year and did not see anything like this, although I never raided really. Generally, pay-to-win refers to people who buy their power in PvP games, not pve games. No one gives a shit if you buy your power in PvE games, just don't group with that person. In PvP games, it's problematic for obvious reasons.
it is happening on main aka sub only servers.it is pve gear not pvp.eq2 is mostly a pve game.
All SoE games are pay to win atm. You can buy xp, items, potions, recruit a friend gives you 3 times as much xp. SoE is a horrible company.
All MMO's are either Pay to Win or headed that way, sad but there it is.
How long before gamers realise that it will be in their genre soon? This is a way of making profit, so they will look to other genres to do the same, FPS is next imo.
Kerching!
Pay To Win i only consider if the game's gimicks for paying actually give you an advantage you can't obtain anywhere. Things like XP potions aren't really 'advantages' in the fact it just lessens the time it takes to level.
That being said, SoE does have a business model of "Milk the consumer of the money with the least effort on us to add content as possible". EQ2X anyone? I haven't seen a 'f2p' model as much of a rip off as that. Not only do you get a large disadvantage, but if you do decide to pay, your paying far more then what others pay on the regular servers, and you even LOSE OUT on content!
the saga continues.loads of unhappy customers.an expansion with zero content been marketed as a feature expansion with full expansion prices $40 or $90 for collectors.
merger of f2p and p2p under f2p model to booster the already pay to win system soe on purpose permits.
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=509050
42 pages and counting of unhappy long tme customers.same mistake as swg .annoy long term customers and pray to drag in new customers.we all know how that ended.
does soe ever learn?
the items you refer to are mounts -- same thing WOW sells in the cash shop
if gonna call RAF pay to win with the triple experience bonus,
may as well include World of Warcraft - thats who SOE copied the promotion from
WOW has been offering triple experience for over 3 years
http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/08/05/blizzard-shows-off-recruit-a-friend-benefits-zhevra-mount-summ/
the WOW version is even worse - you can grant levels to your RAF friend (or yourself if bought 2nd acct)
EQ2 fan sites
Raid gear isn't BOP?!?
How can people respect EQ2 as a game if most major gear upgrades aren't BOP? It's fine to get a couple upgrades through BOEs (AH-purchaseable), but terrible if you can deck your character out completely (or even mostly) in BOE gear.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
EQ2 raid gear is bop
but because it drops in a chest -- players can work around the restriction
the gear is not tradeable unless you were present when the item was looted
you can be invited to the raid group (after the kill) and the raid looter gives you permission to loot the chest
EQ2 fan sites
That's clearly pretty lame. Bad players win enough raid loot as it is, without the loot being outright purchaseable.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
if it was just mounts I would have said mounts, in EQ you can buy XP potions, gear, items, potions, sex change, race change, special zones, pets, trinkets, tradeskill potions that make you never fail, etc....
that's a whole lot more than "mounts"
it's more than all of the F2P games I have played too, many F2P games don't offer XP potions or gear
with yesterday announcement i think soe is really in serious trouble and pulling all the tricks now for a $ but question is can they do it without annoying the loyal fans .