Well, okay, not really munchkins. Just entering that final stage of old age, complete with senility and the desperate need to hang on to former glories.
WoW has had its time and it's flourished in that time. There's no harm in standing to one side to let the whipper snappers take up the mantle.
WoW changed the genre (whether it was for the good or the bad is up to the individual, but not really important), but now it's time for the likes of Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic, The Secret World and a bundle of other titles to jump in to the ring and slog it out to decide who's fit to have their say in changing the genre.
To be honest with you, I'd rather not have a best. I'd rather have a myriad of other titles all competing on equal terms. That way there's less of a target for forum goers to continually compare against or for developers to say "you know, let's just make that and call it something else".
We might just have a a buzzing MMO scene rather than a stale one dominated by a grand patriarch that is followed by a gang of rats all trying to emulate him.
Well I seem to have stated my thoughts really, even though I said that opinion wasn't necessary.
And the ruby slippers? Well they can lie in a muddy hollow for all I care, because there really should be no holder of the title 'master'.
True, that Pokemon idea smells like a trial for when and if the games go F2P to me as well. If it becomes popular it is a possible revenue that more or less could pay for running the game by itself.
But SOE tried the same thing in EQ2: Kingdom of the skies and it didn't work there. That of course proves nothing since EQ2 have a older playerbase than Wow and it is a bit differently made but still, I wouldn't call it a success until it is proven so.
As for Diablo 3, I heard dates from 1996 and forward so I am taking any statement when it will be released with a rather large grain of salt. It will be eventually and I dount Blizzard will be in any financial crisis the next 5 years (well, any real crisis anyways, that some moron in accounting assumes they will make larger profits than they actually make is rather common).
Any smart company will have a plan for when their best seller starts to earn less and less money, it will happen to any game eventually.
And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!
Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.
Bad taste? His comment was dead on. And if you think a Western audience would embrace this panda silliness more so than the East, then man, you are painfully out of touch with reality.
Are you serious? In china the panda is pretty damn close to being a national treasure and here we have a game that takes that treasure and turns it into something else. Some in china may love it and others will dispise it for it desecrates their treasure. Pandas are part of their culture and are viewed quite differently there than they are here.
It was the west that LOVED the pandaren, it was begged for since BC and it was assumed to be one of the new races then because of its pressence in Warcraft3. Get a clue as you obviously have none.
Pandaren's "presence" in WC3 was as an April Fool's joke, bud. WC3 was an amazing title, but the fact still remains: Pandaren was a joke. A younger Eastern audience is going to eat up the idea of creating a Panda race in the World of Warcraft. Where you got the ridiculous notion (aside from the cries of a very small vocal internet fucking forum minority) that WoW's Western fans were going to embrace this joke, is beyond me. Out of touch is an understatement.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I like to compare WoW to AoL that is if people actually remember what America Online was the most popular Internet Service Provider.
1. AoL was crap, it was always crap, it didn't matter how many people subscribed to their service. It was still crap. Anyone who thinks their service was good at any point in its' history is just being Ingorant.
2. AoL was dumbed down lowest common denominator Internet. It apealed to a lot of people who didn't understand what the Internet was and people who were not ready for real Internet access.
3. AoL was heavily marketed in ways everything from TV ads to other product tie ins to even Randomly sending out AoL CDs through snail mail.
4. At its' height of popularity AoL had 50% of the ISP market. It became a self contained center of cool with people using AoL instant messager like it was the second coming.
5. Eventually AoL users did wise up that the service was just over hyped trash and that there were way better ISPs out there. They left slowly at fist: ten thousand here, hundred thousand there. But then BAM it happened millions woke up and quit the service seamingly overnight. That is because it became "uncool" to use their service. In two short years AoL went from King of the ISPs to completely irrelevent.
Replace AoL with WoW and Internet with MMORPG and you have a good History of where this is going. WoW is on early stages of Step 5. WoW will likely lose 6 to 8 million subs in the next year because the trend is accelerationg it cool factor that gained them all the subs in the first place will now work against them. The #1 reason people will give for quitting will be:
"I quit because my friends quit."
Then some time after that ex WoW player will look back and say "I can't beleive I used to play that horrible game."
This.
I guess that people leaving WoW is not going to be some 300k here and 250k there, slowly draggin it down like happening in other games. I will very likely rather be a massive snowball effect that will quickly develop an unstoppable dynamic on it's own.
People always underestimate the social factor about it. "I quit because my friends quit" will be just following accordingly to "I only play because my friends play", which is by far the #1 reason for people sticking to the game today.
At some point every MMO dies. Companies can't afford to run the old servers forever when newer innovations arise and the old just doesn't cut it anymore. I left WoW after WOTLK and played some of Cataclysm. Don't get me wrong. I really don't have a problem with WoW. I just want something new. And as of a month ago I started playing again. I really don't mind the break from all my more serious games. And I'm willing to give the expansion a shot. I don't mind CS. I just mind buff items being available in CS. But as many customers lost, you have to think. The dedicated subs moved on and that 1.7 mil could probably be replaced with at least 75% percent of that with new more casual players being that it seems like Blizz is going this direction. But that really doesn't bother me either. I don't have the time to spend a week or two grinding. Meeting the demands for scheduled raids and instances. I play when I can. But I enjoy it more. So I guess I'm one of those casuals........since 2006. My highest toon is only a 79. But thats just how it is. There's an MMO for everyone that fits their needs. The problem is WoW had built the opposite of what it once was. From hardcore serious dedication to a weekinf warrior fest. Blizz isn't going to hurt over this. But maybe they'll start on a WoW2. And leave WoW open for the casuals.
I belong to the many people hoping that WoW dies already and releases the market from it's grasp.
Unfortunately Blizzard "inspires" the industry way too much and in every negative sense that came with WoW (see tons of wow clones), so WoW going down may indicate to dev studios and investors the possible end of the P2P era and push F2p/freemium/VIP-member models even more.
Really? There isnt enough F2P choices available? More Asian crap than I care to count and the AAA titles that cant compete all have F2P options now. A handful of P2P that you dont have to play and you want more?
Read my posting again.
Yes, I was in a hurry at the time and misread. Im sorry. I will amend it to just say, I hope you are wrong.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
I guess that people leaving WoW is not going to be some 300k here and 250k there, slowly draggin it down like happening in other games. I will very likely rather be a massive snowball effect that will quickly develop an unstoppable dynamic on it's own.
No evidence suggests that. Take a look at EQ's falloff curve, or DAoC's. Hell, even AoC and WAR.
Populations can sometimes take steep, precipitous drops in a hurry (bad expansion often the cause), but around 50-200k the population bottoms out. You hit the core of people for whom this is the best of all possible worlds, even with everyone else gone, and the deluge of players leaving slows to a trickle.
Now WoW's got gobs of servers to merge/shut down before it hits minimum stable population, and that should be a serious issue. But you're still going to hit the core of players who just won't ever leave, until the company pulls the plug.
Then again, it can always go Kotick's Dream--P2W ca$h $hop. F2P and live forever. Who knows.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
To everyone who bought the WoW yearly pass and gets D3 for free. Good luck finding the dimension the has enough hours in the day to actually play both games to make that transaction a deal. A deal for you that is. It's obviously already one for Blizzivision.
I just never liked that Blizzard STILL had yet to update the original races' character models. Seriously, the human male model was bad when the game launched, its just getting worse. Though I doubt that would stop the numbers from dropping.
You will routinely hear WoW players mention that the game is too repetitive. Oddly, I found a quote from Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street where he explains that his original profession of marine biology was only enjoyable for the first few years, until he found that his profession involved "a lot of doing the same thing over and over again." He left, and now heads up a game with content where players do the same thing over and over again.
Now WoW's got gobs of servers to merge/shut down before it hits minimum stable population, and that should be a serious issue. But you're still going to hit the core of players who just won't ever leave, until the company pulls the plug.
Then again, it can always go Kotick's Dream--P2W ca$h $hop. F2P and live forever. Who knows.
Blizzard had the opportunity to merge/shut down servers but instead chose to come up with the LFD. Convenient but has done the community no service.
They'd rather come up with other community killers, making the game even more lobby based and solo friendly than it already is just to not have to lose face with the closing of servers.
And China has over a billion potential players to spare. Ooh look Panda's. What a coincidence!
Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.
Bad taste? His comment was dead on. And if you think a Western audience would embrace this panda silliness more so than the East, then man, you are painfully out of touch with reality.
Are you serious? In china the panda is pretty damn close to being a national treasure and here we have a game that takes that treasure and turns it into something else. Some in china may love it and others will dispise it for it desecrates their treasure. Pandas are part of their culture and are viewed quite differently there than they are here.
It was the west that LOVED the pandaren, it was begged for since BC and it was assumed to be one of the new races then because of its pressence in Warcraft3. Get a clue as you obviously have none.
Pandaren's "presence" in WC3 was as an April Fool's joke, bud. WC3 was an amazing title, but the fact still remains: Pandaren was a joke. A younger Eastern audience is going to eat up the idea of creating a Panda race in the World of Warcraft. Where you got the ridiculous notion (aside from the cries of a very small vocal internet fucking forum minority) that WoW's Western fans were going to embrace this joke, is beyond me. Out of touch is an understatement.
So his notion makes him out of touch but somehow your notion is the ultimate truth? what is your notion based on that everyone is going to hate Panda and that gives you the right to insult him and act so obnoxious? ever heard of this word 'irony'?
So much doom and gloom in this thread. I am definitely no Blizzard fangirl, but I think that some people are over-reacting, not seeing the bigger picture. Perhaps it is the forums that are making them short-sighted.
I doubt highly WoW is going to die anytime soon, if ever. I think what we will see is more deals that wrap up Blizzard games with the WoW subscription. It won't really pay for Blizzard to go Freemium because they will lose their upfront money from subs. It is too lucrative for them to lose it. I reckon they will expand the cash shop and hope that people will pay for both subs and vanity items.
Look at D2, SC, and WC3. They are all still ongoing, and for the age of those games, going strong. In 10 years time, I would not be surprised if WoW still has a few million players. Blizzard has a strong fanbase for any game they release, so I don't see why WoW should be any different. Is a game with several million players dying/dead?
Pandaren's "presence" in WC3 was as an April Fool's joke, bud. WC3 was an amazing title, but the fact still remains: Pandaren was a joke. A younger Eastern audience is going to eat up the idea of creating a Panda race in the World of Warcraft. Where you got the ridiculous notion (aside from the cries of a very small vocal internet fucking forum minority) that WoW's Western fans were going to embrace this joke, is beyond me. Out of touch is an understatement.
When BC was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
When LK was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
When Cata was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
MoP is announced. There are going to be Pandaren...and...there is some grumbling.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
When BC was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
When LK was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
When Cata was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
MoP is announced. There are going to be Pandaren...and...there is some grumbling.
Yeah, I don't understand why people are getting their panties in a bundle about Pandaren. I am a bit disappointed that pandas were chosen over some other races and that they are neutral (eep in PvP), but there are other things coming in the expac that make me go huh far more than Pandaren.
Anyway, the moral of the story is game developers are between a rock and a hard place. No choice they ever make is going to be good, so hey... just make some choice that fits the game and say "Screw it"
old games doesn't means it have to die, or lost subs, like some posters point out, its due to the lack of innovation.
you can only raid so many years. and start to feel bored. that's why wow clone don't rank in the same numbers of players.
with mop they are going back to the same formula a Lk, but I doubt it will bring back most of the players, but if they do innovate, than panda or not wow will enjoy more subs again.
and yes, I don't like the direction ghost Crawler is taking.
Yeah, I don't understand why people are getting their panties in a bundle about Pandaren. I am a bit disappointed that pandas were chosen over some other races and that they are neutral (eep in PvP), but there are other things coming in the expac that make me go huh far more than Pandaren.
Anyway, the moral of the story is game developers are between a rock and a hard place. No choice they ever make is going to be good, so hey... just make some choice that fits the game and say "Screw it"
The Talent System changes are the biggest turn off for me. The Talent changes with Cata was led to my shortest period of play after an xpac.
The illusion of choice sells...it sold RIFT. All these choices that Blizzard is making - how long before they put out an xpac where it becomes WoW Heroes . . . and you pick a canned toon to play?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.
I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.
But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.
Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.
WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.
WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.
I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.
But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.
Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.
WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.
And WOW will survive for many more years, or you telling me it is goign to shut down in a year or so?. As far as maintaining huge playerbase what other MMOS do we know that have done it over period of 7 years? sorry but you are contradicting your own post since there is nothing to compare with WOW in terms of player base and success.
WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.
I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.
But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.
Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.
WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.
And WOW will survive for many more years, or you telling me it is goign to shut down in a year or so?. As far as maintaining huge playerbase what other MMOS do we know that have done it over period of 7 years? sorry but you are contradicting your own post since there is nothing to compare with WOW in terms of player base and success.
"Maintain" is the important word for me. WoW did not "maintain" its playerbase. Someone in this thread asked about people from beta still playing the game, and my guess would be: close to none. WoW re-invented its playbase, and that's what I see as the worst part of its whole development in recent years. The Panda-Stuff will be another reinvention, Generation 3 of WoW-Players will see the light.
And although you can't compare the numbers, there are games out there that managed to maintain the beta-playerbase. WoW just doesn't care. And I can't stand carelessness.
"Maintain" is the important word for me. WoW did not "maintain" its playerbase. Someone in this thread asked about people from beta still playing the game, and my guess would be: close to none. WoW re-invented its playbase, and that's what I see as the worst part of its whole development in recent years. The Panda-Stuff will be another reinvention, Generation 3 of WoW-Players will see the light.
And although you can't compare the numbers, there are games out there that managed to maintain the beta-playerbase. WoW just doesn't care. And I can't stand carelessness.
WoW is not thought about by its devs as a game with high player retention. They (re)designed it to be appealing to newcomers, not to keep existing ones.
And as someone else stated, the original game was so good that many players said, for a long time "I don't really like this or that change, but that's how life apparently is, I'll live with it. Still a great game". Until one day, they said "Enough. This is no longer the game I fell in love with."
Thirdly, Blizzard lives to large part from their once pristine reputation and great past games. It's cool to play Blizzard games (or at least, was. Times are changing, I think). But they are sabotaging themselves because they've entered the sphere of "everything we touch turns to gold. Apparently, we can do anything!"
To pick up on your "disregard": I completely agree. Blizzard shows a sickening disregard for its games, for its reputation, for its customers. And its games.
I once had respect for the great company that gave me Diablo, WarCraft and StarCraft. I weep for the company that now gives us a cash shop, real-money Auction House, completely flounderes as to where WoW's road will go, and who mutilated Diablo III to a money-grabbing husk of a game. Not to mention its enforced online play.
The loss of subs was forecast some time ago by Blizzard themselves. Their primary goal was to cannibalize their own sub base before the new flock of MMO's pulled them away.
To that end, Titan was what should have been announced at Blizzcon, not MoP...
It's going to be a nasty hit too because MoP should, by all rights, be free.
They can promote Diablo, MoP, Dota and all their other endeavors and that's all great.
It's not going to cannibalize their playerbase as planned though.
Titan and hype for Titan could blunt the frenzy being made by upcoming games like TOR/GW2/etc .
We've all heard for years that "fill in the blank" game's is going to be a WoW-killer.
At this point, we know the game is going to decline due to its' old age and retire quietly.
The bigger question is which game will succeed it.
WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.
I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.
But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.
Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.
WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.
And WOW will survive for many more years, or you telling me it is goign to shut down in a year or so?. As far as maintaining huge playerbase what other MMOS do we know that have done it over period of 7 years? sorry but you are contradicting your own post since there is nothing to compare with WOW in terms of player base and success.
"Maintain" is the important word for me. WoW did not "maintain" its playerbase. Someone in this thread asked about people from beta still playing the game, and my guess would be: close to none. WoW re-invented its playbase, and that's what I see as the worst part of its whole development in recent years. The Panda-Stuff will be another reinvention, Generation 3 of WoW-Players will see the light.
And although you can't compare the numbers, there are games out there that managed to maintain the beta-playerbase. WoW just doesn't care. And I can't stand carelessness.
Maintainign few beta players over the years doesn't equate to maintaining the playerbase at large and that was your argument in previous post. And yes there is still no other MMO to comapre with WOW when it comes to maintaining huge player base over the period of 7 years, hence any comparison is moot. WOW will continue to maintain its players over the years since many MMO are doing quite well with 200K subs or less. It will be foolish to think that WOW won't be able to survive for another 5 years and will just cease to exist.
Comments
Dare I say it?
Yes, I dare. "Ding, dong, the witch is dead".
Well, okay, not really munchkins. Just entering that final stage of old age, complete with senility and the desperate need to hang on to former glories.
WoW has had its time and it's flourished in that time. There's no harm in standing to one side to let the whipper snappers take up the mantle.
WoW changed the genre (whether it was for the good or the bad is up to the individual, but not really important), but now it's time for the likes of Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic, The Secret World and a bundle of other titles to jump in to the ring and slog it out to decide who's fit to have their say in changing the genre.
To be honest with you, I'd rather not have a best. I'd rather have a myriad of other titles all competing on equal terms. That way there's less of a target for forum goers to continually compare against or for developers to say "you know, let's just make that and call it something else".
We might just have a a buzzing MMO scene rather than a stale one dominated by a grand patriarch that is followed by a gang of rats all trying to emulate him.
Well I seem to have stated my thoughts really, even though I said that opinion wasn't necessary.
And the ruby slippers? Well they can lie in a muddy hollow for all I care, because there really should be no holder of the title 'master'.
.
True, that Pokemon idea smells like a trial for when and if the games go F2P to me as well. If it becomes popular it is a possible revenue that more or less could pay for running the game by itself.
But SOE tried the same thing in EQ2: Kingdom of the skies and it didn't work there. That of course proves nothing since EQ2 have a older playerbase than Wow and it is a bit differently made but still, I wouldn't call it a success until it is proven so.
As for Diablo 3, I heard dates from 1996 and forward so I am taking any statement when it will be released with a rather large grain of salt. It will be eventually and I dount Blizzard will be in any financial crisis the next 5 years (well, any real crisis anyways, that some moron in accounting assumes they will make larger profits than they actually make is rather common).
Any smart company will have a plan for when their best seller starts to earn less and less money, it will happen to any game eventually.
There's nothing to fear - WoW Lead Designer, Greg Street, is going to restore all those lost subscriptions and even add more!
How?
Pandas!
Everything is going to be fine - you'll see!
Sure panda's are highly regarded in china but i find comments like these in bad taste. They are more likely to not embrace this as much as the western world due to the fact that they are such a regarded animal. They aren't or weren't as exotic to them as they are to the west so the high appeal IMO would be stronger over here.
Bad taste? His comment was dead on. And if you think a Western audience would embrace this panda silliness more so than the East, then man, you are painfully out of touch with reality.Are you serious? In china the panda is pretty damn close to being a national treasure and here we have a game that takes that treasure and turns it into something else. Some in china may love it and others will dispise it for it desecrates their treasure. Pandas are part of their culture and are viewed quite differently there than they are here.
It was the west that LOVED the pandaren, it was begged for since BC and it was assumed to be one of the new races then because of its pressence in Warcraft3. Get a clue as you obviously have none.
Pandaren's "presence" in WC3 was as an April Fool's joke, bud. WC3 was an amazing title, but the fact still remains: Pandaren was a joke.A younger Eastern audience is going to eat up the idea of creating a Panda race in the World of Warcraft. Where you got the ridiculous notion (aside from the cries of a very small vocal internet fucking forum minority) that WoW's Western fans were going to embrace this joke, is beyond me.
Out of touch is an understatement.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
This.
I guess that people leaving WoW is not going to be some 300k here and 250k there, slowly draggin it down like happening in other games. I will very likely rather be a massive snowball effect that will quickly develop an unstoppable dynamic on it's own.
People always underestimate the social factor about it. "I quit because my friends quit" will be just following accordingly to "I only play because my friends play", which is by far the #1 reason for people sticking to the game today.
At some point every MMO dies. Companies can't afford to run the old servers forever when newer innovations arise and the old just doesn't cut it anymore. I left WoW after WOTLK and played some of Cataclysm. Don't get me wrong. I really don't have a problem with WoW. I just want something new. And as of a month ago I started playing again. I really don't mind the break from all my more serious games. And I'm willing to give the expansion a shot. I don't mind CS. I just mind buff items being available in CS. But as many customers lost, you have to think. The dedicated subs moved on and that 1.7 mil could probably be replaced with at least 75% percent of that with new more casual players being that it seems like Blizz is going this direction. But that really doesn't bother me either. I don't have the time to spend a week or two grinding. Meeting the demands for scheduled raids and instances. I play when I can. But I enjoy it more. So I guess I'm one of those casuals........since 2006. My highest toon is only a 79. But thats just how it is. There's an MMO for everyone that fits their needs. The problem is WoW had built the opposite of what it once was. From hardcore serious dedication to a weekinf warrior fest. Blizz isn't going to hurt over this. But maybe they'll start on a WoW2. And leave WoW open for the casuals.
(o'')-O Vs Q('' Q)
Yes, I was in a hurry at the time and misread. Im sorry. I will amend it to just say, I hope you are wrong.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
No evidence suggests that. Take a look at EQ's falloff curve, or DAoC's. Hell, even AoC and WAR.
Populations can sometimes take steep, precipitous drops in a hurry (bad expansion often the cause), but around 50-200k the population bottoms out. You hit the core of people for whom this is the best of all possible worlds, even with everyone else gone, and the deluge of players leaving slows to a trickle.
Now WoW's got gobs of servers to merge/shut down before it hits minimum stable population, and that should be a serious issue. But you're still going to hit the core of players who just won't ever leave, until the company pulls the plug.
Then again, it can always go Kotick's Dream--P2W ca$h $hop. F2P and live forever. Who knows.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I just never liked that Blizzard STILL had yet to update the original races' character models. Seriously, the human male model was bad when the game launched, its just getting worse. Though I doubt that would stop the numbers from dropping.
Once the exodus starts it begins to feed on itself and accelerate. It is also very difficult to turn around.
You will routinely hear WoW players mention that the game is too repetitive. Oddly, I found a quote from Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street where he explains that his original profession of marine biology was only enjoyable for the first few years, until he found that his profession involved "a lot of doing the same thing over and over again." He left, and now heads up a game with content where players do the same thing over and over again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Street
Blizzard had the opportunity to merge/shut down servers but instead chose to come up with the LFD. Convenient but has done the community no service.
They'd rather come up with other community killers, making the game even more lobby based and solo friendly than it already is just to not have to lose face with the closing of servers.
For shame.
So his notion makes him out of touch but somehow your notion is the ultimate truth? what is your notion based on that everyone is going to hate Panda and that gives you the right to insult him and act so obnoxious? ever heard of this word 'irony'?
So much doom and gloom in this thread. I am definitely no Blizzard fangirl, but I think that some people are over-reacting, not seeing the bigger picture. Perhaps it is the forums that are making them short-sighted.
I doubt highly WoW is going to die anytime soon, if ever. I think what we will see is more deals that wrap up Blizzard games with the WoW subscription. It won't really pay for Blizzard to go Freemium because they will lose their upfront money from subs. It is too lucrative for them to lose it. I reckon they will expand the cash shop and hope that people will pay for both subs and vanity items.
Look at D2, SC, and WC3. They are all still ongoing, and for the age of those games, going strong. In 10 years time, I would not be surprised if WoW still has a few million players. Blizzard has a strong fanbase for any game they release, so I don't see why WoW should be any different. Is a game with several million players dying/dead?
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
When BC was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
When LK was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
When Cata was announced, people were asking if the Pandaren were going to be there. When they were not, there was some grumbling.
MoP is announced. There are going to be Pandaren...and...there is some grumbling.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Yeah, I don't understand why people are getting their panties in a bundle about Pandaren. I am a bit disappointed that pandas were chosen over some other races and that they are neutral (eep in PvP), but there are other things coming in the expac that make me go huh far more than Pandaren.
Anyway, the moral of the story is game developers are between a rock and a hard place. No choice they ever make is going to be good, so hey... just make some choice that fits the game and say "Screw it"
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
you can only raid so many years. and start to feel bored. that's why wow clone don't rank in the same numbers of players.
with mop they are going back to the same formula a Lk, but I doubt it will bring back most of the players, but if they do innovate, than panda or not wow will enjoy more subs again.
and yes, I don't like the direction ghost Crawler is taking.
RIP Orc Choppa
The Talent System changes are the biggest turn off for me. The Talent changes with Cata was led to my shortest period of play after an xpac.
The illusion of choice sells...it sold RIFT. All these choices that Blizzard is making - how long before they put out an xpac where it becomes WoW Heroes . . . and you pick a canned toon to play?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
WoW wouldn't be dying if the producers would have at least some kind of clue where they want to go with it. But they obviously don't, at least concerning gaming issues, concerning money issues they do just fine.
I am pretty sure an MMO can survive more than 7 years, still do good, still be innovative, still maintain a huge playerbase.
But going on from LK they just made the bad move of trying to please everyone. How stupid is that? If there would be any really creative minds left in responsibility for this game, they would have an edge to it, they would not like to please, but to conquer. But WoW lost its creativity and its edge a long time ago. That's what people start realizing.
Hopefully it will crash asap, so that the gaming industry is freed from its influence, and players are not blinded anymore that this is what a game should look and feel like. Srsly, if Cata would have been Vanilla, with its raid mechanics, crafting, exploration etcetc, it would have been a good laugh throughout MMO industries.
WoW is feeding on its own myth, that's all that is left of it.
And WOW will survive for many more years, or you telling me it is goign to shut down in a year or so?. As far as maintaining huge playerbase what other MMOS do we know that have done it over period of 7 years? sorry but you are contradicting your own post since there is nothing to compare with WOW in terms of player base and success.
"Maintain" is the important word for me. WoW did not "maintain" its playerbase. Someone in this thread asked about people from beta still playing the game, and my guess would be: close to none. WoW re-invented its playbase, and that's what I see as the worst part of its whole development in recent years. The Panda-Stuff will be another reinvention, Generation 3 of WoW-Players will see the light.
And although you can't compare the numbers, there are games out there that managed to maintain the beta-playerbase. WoW just doesn't care. And I can't stand carelessness.
WoW is not thought about by its devs as a game with high player retention. They (re)designed it to be appealing to newcomers, not to keep existing ones.
And as someone else stated, the original game was so good that many players said, for a long time "I don't really like this or that change, but that's how life apparently is, I'll live with it. Still a great game". Until one day, they said "Enough. This is no longer the game I fell in love with."
Thirdly, Blizzard lives to large part from their once pristine reputation and great past games. It's cool to play Blizzard games (or at least, was. Times are changing, I think). But they are sabotaging themselves because they've entered the sphere of "everything we touch turns to gold. Apparently, we can do anything!"
To pick up on your "disregard": I completely agree. Blizzard shows a sickening disregard for its games, for its reputation, for its customers. And its games.
I once had respect for the great company that gave me Diablo, WarCraft and StarCraft. I weep for the company that now gives us a cash shop, real-money Auction House, completely flounderes as to where WoW's road will go, and who mutilated Diablo III to a money-grabbing husk of a game. Not to mention its enforced online play.
The loss of subs was forecast some time ago by Blizzard themselves. Their primary goal was to cannibalize their own sub base before the new flock of MMO's pulled them away.
To that end, Titan was what should have been announced at Blizzcon, not MoP...
It's going to be a nasty hit too because MoP should, by all rights, be free.
They can promote Diablo, MoP, Dota and all their other endeavors and that's all great.
It's not going to cannibalize their playerbase as planned though.
Titan and hype for Titan could blunt the frenzy being made by upcoming games like TOR/GW2/etc .
We've all heard for years that "fill in the blank" game's is going to be a WoW-killer.
At this point, we know the game is going to decline due to its' old age and retire quietly.
The bigger question is which game will succeed it.
Maintainign few beta players over the years doesn't equate to maintaining the playerbase at large and that was your argument in previous post. And yes there is still no other MMO to comapre with WOW when it comes to maintaining huge player base over the period of 7 years, hence any comparison is moot. WOW will continue to maintain its players over the years since many MMO are doing quite well with 200K subs or less. It will be foolish to think that WOW won't be able to survive for another 5 years and will just cease to exist.