And Gw2, isnt the team making the game the original team for vanilla wow? I doubt Gw2 will screw up.
I'm not sure. Though I know 2 former Mythic (DAOC!) devs are working on the WvWvW in GW2. That alone gives me hope the RvR is going to be the best PvP I've experienced since DAOC.
#1 in what sense? Population? Because yes I agree that WoW for the next couple years will (still) be the holder of the MMO market. But that's because WoW is already a distinguished game with lots of content. Another point supporting that idea, would be the presence of Blizzard as a company and it's long history of fantastic games. Blizzard backing WoW with a high level of priority will keep the game populated. The marketing is pretty genius afterall.
However, in my opinion, that's all it really is and will amount to be. I was once a WoWer, I played it because it was fun, challenging, and filled with wonderful content that made me feel like part of a massive world. Not so much anymore. People will migrate away from WoW, alot of casual players and hardcore players who are tired of the button mashing. Frankly, that's all I really want to happen. Someone mentioned, I believe it was the OP, that kids can easily jump in this world. Exactky so, they can- and that's whats wrong. I'm more of an adult now, I've aged in the past couple years; I need a game that can age with me and have more adult/challenging aspects. Not one that themizes expansions on pandas. Which is a topic for another thread I suppose.
Suffice it to say, WoW will only be #1 in terms of population and nothing else. The gameplay and innovation of the game is lacking and will not be able to keep up with the titles in the upcoming year of 2012.
I hate to disagree, WoW won't hold the number one slot for long. I don't know who will take the spot maybe it will be Star Wars maybe not. This is no different the Everquest back in the day. It too held the number one slot and eventually it got knocked out of it spot but it has carried on and I expect World of Warcraft to do the same thing.
Blizzard could held on to the number one slot had the been smart. In all honesty had they had gone in to development for World of Warcraft then they would have stood a much better chance of holding on to the number one slot. Now does that mean they can develope a good sequal sure but I doubt it will ever retain the popularity that World of Warcraft enjoy for so many years.
One big element that will hurt World of Warcraft from here on out is that World of Warcraft is very much raiding game, loot driven. While these elements will still exist to some degree they will take a back seat to storyline and less raiding.
I think the nature of MMO is changing and I think those changes that will be popular will serious hurt World of Warcraft. There best bet is to change and develope World of Warcraft 2.
trust me, being deployed with the US AIr Force has shown me that a lot of gamers around the world and in the US aren't so lucky. They're playing on their parents shitty computers, internet cafe's, college dorm rooms with shitty computers and the like.
Being in the US Air Force gives you the ability to have the insight into peoples houses & into
their machines?
So your telling us this gives you factual statistical information on peoples PC specifications
because your in the USAF? oh & that you travel a bit? ...WTF
Woah... think im gonna sign up, with these sort of skills to offfer i may even predict this weeks
lottery numbers.
Anyway i agree with you that WoW is "well optimised" althouigh you took a long winded
approach to make this point, this really is only one factor into their sucess, the main fact
is that all other companies fail to create their own unique neich & offer something new
& fresh, its nothing to do with blizzard being the almighty saviours of gaming, in fact they
are the main contributer to the complete downfall of the MMO genre.
I lived in other countries for years at a time. Spent a lot of time at their local schools and colleges taking classes, working on their local computers, got to know the people around me. Sound that crazy? I don't need statistical information to walk into an Internet cafe in Japan, and see that the computers in the cafe are old as hell. So yes, being in the military and deployed to some other countries has given me some insight you may not have. Deal with it.
Saying that the game being "well optimized" is the ONLY reason for their success is just a plain embarrassing statement. I believ there are many reasons for their success, this is just one of them.
Guild Wars 2 can run on a single core, eight year old system.
From what i've read SW:TOR isnt as resource heavy as WoW on Max settings either.
Developers are fully aware that they can't pull a AOC, Aion or Rift when it comes to required specs.
So no WoW won't be number one for long. Games are releasing that run perfectly fine on old machines.
It's funny how you know the system requirements for GW2... you may want to let them know, cause according to their site:
What are the system requirements for Guild Wars 2?
The system requirements haven't been finalized, but just as with the original Guild Wars series, we're committed to creating a beautiful game that will play great on mid-range gaming PCs.
However, there is a large factor that people over look in why WoW has acheived the sucess it has. I will use my nephew as an example of this factor. He currently plays WoW on his partents 9 year old Dell computer. This thing is a relic. I"m serious, I don't know how it even runs.. but it does, and it runs WoW. Get my point here?
Big deal! My 10-year old DELL laptop runs EQ2 smoothly as well. This aside from the horrid stories you hear about EQ2's engine... Same thing goes with Lineage II on that same old laptop. Think you're flaud on your assupmtion that WoW will remain #1 because of that.
No it doesn't. I payed Eq2 up til three months ago. My Alienware care barely run that shitasaurus Rex of a game. No need to come here and lie...lol.
I didn't say it was a pretty sight (same with WoW on a system this old), but it runs. Just look at the pic below, taken on that laptop...
And yeah, if you want to play EQ2 to the max, you really need to have a kick-ass system with all the best & fastest hardware you can find atm, and even then I doubt you can set it to the max
You said that the game ran smoothly... even looking like complete and utter poop. You're getting 23 fps with 4 objects on the screen. Wouldn't exactly call it smooth...lol. You could more then likely run WoW on that machine and get 40 to 50 and have it look a hell of a lot better. So much for my "flaud" assumption. This plays right into my point. While other games are running like poop, WoW tends to run better, hence, more people on shitty computers have enjoyable access to WoW.
I lived in other countries for years at a time. Spent a lot of time at their local schools and colleges taking classes, working on their local computers, got to know the people around me. Sound that crazy? I don't need statistical information to walk into an Internet cafe in Japan, and see that the computers in the cafe are old as hell. So yes, being in the military and deployed to some other countries has given me some insight you may not have. Deal with it. Saying that the game being "well optimized" is the ONLY reason for their success is just a plain embarrassing statement. I believ there are many reasons for their success, this is just one of them.
{mod edit}
*EDIT*
WoW's sucess is based on being a well optimsed game that will run on any piece of crap
also that they launched the game at a point where mmo's were becoming very popular due
to UO EQ SWG etc... plus the home pc market was growing fast at that time, finally the fact
they had about 3million users on battlenet from its previous popular titles such as warcraft3.
{mod edit}
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Played: SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
I lived in other countries for years at a time. Spent a lot of time at their local schools and colleges taking classes, working on their local computers, got to know the people around me. Sound that crazy? I don't need statistical information to walk into an Internet cafe in Japan, and see that the computers in the cafe are old as hell. So yes, being in the military and deployed to some other countries has given me some insight you may not have. Deal with it. Saying that the game being "well optimized" is the ONLY reason for their success is just a plain embarrassing statement. I believ there are many reasons for their success, this is just one of them.
{mod edit}
*EDIT*
WoW's sucess is based on being a well optimsed game that will run on any piece of crap
also that they launched the game at a point where mmo's were becoming very popular due
to UO EQ SWG etc... plus the home pc market was growing fast at that time, finally the fact
they had about 3million users on battlenet from its previous popular titles such as warcraft3.
{mod edit}
You forgot the fact that its a good solid game and that the closest any game came to actually competing with it is now F2P. What makes WOW good "for all the dummys and little kids" is that everything elseto release since has been nothing but crap. Of course with the mentality of " I hate Blizz" i guess its easier just to rant and make shit up.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
You forgot the fact that its a good solid game and that the closest any game came to actually competing with it is now F2P. What makes WOW good "for all the dummys and little kids" is that everything elseto release since has been nothing but crap. Of course with the mentality of " I hate Blizz" i guess its easier just to rant and make shit up.
It may be a good solid game but it severly lacks in areas that previous sanbox titles had, WoW
may have touched 12mill subs at one point but this doesn't make the the best mmo.
The most sucessful football teams in the world dont necessarily have the biggest fan base.
There were far better mmos prior to WoW, but i agree since WoW most have been poor with
no innovation or any nieche of their own only making WoW stronger, hence Blizzard being "lucky"
that no other company has come up with even a half decent game to compete until now (SW:TOR)
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Played: SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
nha!it wont stay number one for very long,since activision sent a soldier in blizzard people have been going elsewhere.
some might believe it is unrelated but sad truth unconciuosly blizzard has been moving away from success only since that guy has been sent in there.blizzard might not think they changed but they did unconciously because they want to please the activison dude,and this is a nono.
as i said before activison boss need to recall his activison watchdog and let blizzard do what they do best success.
They really had ALOT of elements come together perfectly for them, basically winning the lottery x 100.
1.) $0E kicking in after purchase of Verant, ruining EQ1 slowly, tension builds and finally Gates of Discord & Omens of War sees a great portion of it's playerbase jumping ship.
2.) The Diablo franchise had a massive fanbase, Starcraft as well as Warcraft also. Ripe for hoovering up into WOW's sea of $$$.
3.) Even as a EQ1 raider going from EQ to WOW was like living for ten years on dogshit then one day feasting on a 30" German Chocolate Cake. (Player retention.)
4.) Early WoW was great for communities. TBC hurt it, WOTLK killed it. Cataclysm shit on it's corpse. (Retention.)
5.) All games released since WoW have had far too much to "catch up" on content wise. None have had appropriate funding, good design and developers who knew what they were doing. (Usually just one element or the other. See: Age of Conan.)
6.) WOW's only real potential competitor: Everquest 2, bombed out of the gates - everyone, and I mean EVERYONE hates $0E. The game was a cruel bastardization of EQ1 with the same ballbusting Korean-style nonsense everyone was tired of. Over the years they've greatly improved (by copying WOW features and enhancing them greatly, coupled with very, very indepth gameplay and a massive world) but it was too late, nobody will give it a second chance. (Though the game deserves it, $0E do not.)
Now it's petering out for the NA/EU markets, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the following year or so. I predict WoW will decline sharply around summer 2012, regardless of the competition. (SWTOR will fail because of EA and nobody wants WoW with a Starwars tileset/rebranding, GW2 will kill Rift, but not a big accomplishment...)
Since when is "severely outdated" become "well optimised" and "user friendly"..........
SWTOR is said to be able to played on machines that are mid ranged 6 years ago. Average requirement of a game has never jumped any higher than 8800GT(or equivalent) with 2 GB ram and Core2Duo 2.0GHz/Pentium 3.0GHZ. Your computer have to be so old that well........it should break down by now.
This isn't meant as an offense to anyone with lower quality computers, I don't have a great computer myself, but it is sufficient to run the coming MMO but not with highest graphics.
It really depends on what players expect from the game, a well optimised game can be played by the oldest of the machines, but just don't expect any fancy shaders or particle effects.
The only reason why I think WoW will remain NO.1 is that, people spent half their lives playing that game, they have achieved everything possible, why would they want to start at platform 0 again.
Everyone has that game that they always go back to, even if it isn't as well designed or good looking as the newer games, but because they have spent time earning the virtual goods, it actually mean something to them. Another downfall for a subscription game, you leave the game, you lose everything you earned before.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
A) Inertia. Takes a long, long time for that many people to get fed up.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You forgot the fact that its a good solid game and that the closest any game came to actually competing with it is now F2P. What makes WOW good "for all the dummys and little kids" is that everything elseto release since has been nothing but crap. Of course with the mentality of " I hate Blizz" i guess its easier just to rant and make shit up.
It may be a good solid game but it severly lacks in areas that previous sanbox titles had, WoW
may have touched 12mill subs at one point but this doesn't make the the best mmo.
The most sucessful football teams in the world dont necessarily have the biggest fan base.
There were far better mmos prior to WoW, but i agree since WoW most have been poor with
no innovation or any nieche of their own only making WoW stronger, hence Blizzard being "lucky"
that no other company has come up with even a half decent game to compete until now (SW:TOR)
Name these far better mmo's prior to WoW? And far better according to whom? You? It's quite obvious you simply hate WoW and therefore are arguing from a completely bias point of view. I play WoW and have just pre-ordered TOR - I play a game based on having fun, not the name or company. If I do quit playing WoW completely for TOR, I wouldn't come on these boards and bash WOW as it has brought me years of entertainment and I feel no need to personally attack/hate a game or game company, unlike some of you people.
It's a sickness of MY GAME MUST BE THE BEST. And it's sad.
Also, I don't quite understand your Football analogy here... the most sucessfull footballs teams in the world don't necessarily have the biggest fan base? By this analogy, any one person can make the claim that the game THEY are currently playing is the best game in the world.... as it may be ... to them. And who's grading the football team? A local team that plays 4 other teams could lay claim to the title "the best" as they only play 4 other teams. There has to be a scale to judge and with mmo's ,like it or not, it's subscriber base.
Reaching 12 million subs, however, breifly is a feat that no other mainstream monthly subscribing game has come close to achieving, so yes, I would say that would make it the most sucessfull mmo to date. Perhaps not the best for you personally, but again, there must be a way to judge the sucess of a game. If you don't judge games by the numbers of subscribers, there's really no other way to judge them is there?
The only reason the subscriber numbers are important, is because it will make or break a game. For example, I was severely in love with Shadowbane back in the day, but guess what.... they had about 3500-5000 players and the game fell to pieces and closed. The developers didn't seem to give a rats ass that WE thought it was the best game ever. The number's weren't there, the money wasn't there... so the game wasn't there. You need to judge a game by the sub base and hope it stays profitable... otherwise your game may not be around long.
So in closing... all of these "far better mmo's" from before WoW... if they truely were better and the subs don't necessarily matter.... where are they now? Why don't I hear of them? If WoW was a fluke and is as bad as you say, why aren't these older games burning up the charts? Is it possible that WoW is in fact a pretty good game that for some reason you just hate?
Fantasy out sells Sci Fi except at the movies. WoW will remain the dominant force until it destroys itself. I am not a fan of MoP. Not because of the Pandamen which just is content that I will not play, but rather because of the oversimplied the talent revamp. MoP is Blizzard's attempt to realign itself. Will blizzard succeed, I do not know.
I think people are leaving WoW because of a number of little reasons. Not just one big one. Too many little changes from cash shop to raiding changes to streamlined gear grind. None a reason in themselves but all contributing factors.
Also lack of competition. Now new competition this year hopefully players start having a proper choice. This is a good thing and will make companies start giving us what we want rather then giving us what we will put up with.
The reason Wow will stay number 1 is for the simple fact their movement is smooth. It all boils down to them having the secret on how to make everything move smoothly . Seriously, I have yet to boot up a game that has the same fluid motion as wow and my computer and graphics card are top notch. All that other blah blah blah stuff isnt what keeps people coming back. Its the flawless movement that they have a handle on.
to me Cata revamp removed grind from WoW, which is unique of MMO genre, then comes large world, lot of races with unique experience, many dungeons, easy group finding system & fun PVP.
WoW is casual relaxing game with lot of fun even if i regret to buy Cata as it not added much for lvl 80-85 and end game to me.
I'll may be play WoW again but I guess I'll not purchase new x-pack.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Its huge even if it loses half its player base it will still be the biggest by a long way, even 3/4 of is base still makes it bigger than any other, question is, is it any good, even Bon Jovi has a huge fan base and he hasn't been good since Slippery When Wet!
I don't buy it WOW is already bleeding subs and thats just to decent games. It's older now, which wouldn't be so bad if they weren't abandoning their original base in favor of the Asian market. The same crowd that thinks wow will be number one for ten more years were the same people saying WOW will pass 14 million subs by last year. It may have millions of Asian market users right now, but ALOT of games have millions of Asian market players, I think its already on top in name only.
The game is still fun from time to time, but it's no longer the addictive game that it once was.
Let's be honest, the game really is a shadow of it's former self.
Yes, it has 'more features', but that doesn't really make it a 'better' game.
Some will say it's the shift in the game to assist casual or new gamers.
Others will say that it's a shift in the game to help grow their sub base in the Asian mrket.
...
Time and 'multiple' MMO's will kill WoW.
There is no single game that is 'the WoW-killer'. As more and more games come out, the playerbase will spread out into other games. They aren't going to flip a switch and jump from WoW immediately to 'game x'. We're not going to see some immediate and defining transfer of the heavyweight belt to some other game.
Old age and the freedom of choice will kill WoW.
...
That being said... TITAN is actually terminal cancer for WoW. As Blizzard resources are slowly pulled off of WoW and they are added to the Titan Dev team, that really takes a lot of the forward momentum that WoW had away. It doesn't have the internal creative power or resources to keep moving forward.
Blizz went through a significant growing pains with WoW as it grew. And I really don't think they are honestly capable of managing 2 MMORPG's + the other games in their stable.
Ask their support teams. Ghostcrawler and the other dev's can stand on the stage at Blizzcon and pound their chests all they like... but the folks working behind the scenes will tell you that they are spread too thinly.
And honestly, the next time the players ask for something and the Dev's respond with 'we really want to do that' or 'we've always wanted to do that'.... BUT... "we just haven't had enough time".... That answer is not acceptable.
If you've played WoW and been a loyal subscriber for all of the years that the game has been around, the last thing you really want to hear is 'well... we'd get to that... but... most of our focus is really on Titan...'. But that's the message that I'm getting.
Again... time and other games will kill WoW (Titan included).
WoW will remain the number 1 for 2 simple reasons...
A) Even if WoW loses 50% of its sub base it will still be much more succesfull than just about any other MMO on the market.
WoW is and most likely will for ever remain the most profitable MMO(and most likely the video game) ever made. WoW was developed in a complelty diffrent period and market, with a relativly very small development team, even by modern non-MMO standards, heck LoL's dev team is over 150 people these days, WoW started with less than 50, it was based on an in house IP and had no additional licensing costs the entire tech like just every other blizzard game was done completly in house, and it sold a shitload of boxes over its life span.
ToR for example is most likely the most expensive game ever developed(and i think will remain the most expensive one for good) by far, it uses a licnesed engine(HeroEngine) and other licensed tech like wwise and scaleform, it is based on by far the most expsive IP in history, it is fully voiced over, and it has to match the the content of a 7 year old title both in quantity and quality.
One of WoW's many achivements was to increase the development costs of a AAA MMO tenfold, not only do you have to match the quality but the inflation of the MMO market today also forces companies to be ready for the player rush that just about every major MMO release has these days. Blizzard not only was able to grow their infrastructure with the steady growth of their player base(becasue WoW at first didnt sell "THAT" well, it just continued to sell and sell and sell over a period of 2-3 years), it also could afford to delay the european launch by a year in order to be able financially to invest in the needed infrastructure there.
Today an MMO that even wants to compete with WoW has to be launched in the NA and EU markets allmost simultenuasly, which when combined with the overwhelming player rush that WoW's inflation of the MMO market causes forces companies to invest in infrastructure that can support 2-5 million players instead of the 200-250K that you would've needed 7-8 years ago.
Heck Blizzard was caught way off guard by their own launch that the bloody game was not playable during the first couple of months, they even stopped selling it in the US for a couple of months after launch to be able to keep up with their growth.
EA allready had a major financial fail with WAR, 8 years ago WAR could've been a very sccesfull game with with WoW on the market any game will have major issues to become successfull any time soon.
I dont know what EA's revenue sharing agreement with their various licensed tech, and im pretty sure a very nice sum of the revnue goes to lucas also, so considering that ToR cost around 80-100(tho i belive that amount is much higher, 80 mil is what EA had to pay, ToR was in development way before EA was ever in the picture) mill dollars to develop, and will probably cost another 20 or 30 millions a in various maintanence costs(exluding additional development) each year it will have some hard time to be profitable. Heck the costs of having the support staff for a game like WoW are in the millions each year, say 300 various game support and administrative personnel world wide making 45K US a year(Which is not allot) is alone 18M, add in keeping a development staff of 150-100 people which make around 100K a year thats another 10 to 15M a year, Server and infrastructure costs, various complience and insurance costs heck ToR will need allot of player to be succesfull. I honestly belive that a game as expensive to develope and to maintain needs around 2 Mill players world wide paying 13 US in average to be profitable.
Say 300M in gross revenue from playes, 2-5% from it goes to various biling providers like paypal, visa, amex etc, which leaves you with 285~, the corporate tax rate should be around 30-35% depending on the country and state and that leaves you with around 200-190M, take atleast another 50-60M out of that amount for operational expenses, and you left with what 150M a year? it sounds allot but thats before LA, EA and various other companies take a bite of that pie honestly that bearly leaves BW with enough funds for expansion packs(even tho they pay for them selves too) and additional content, not to mention actually seeing a good profit from their hard work.
Comments
I'm not sure. Though I know 2 former Mythic (DAOC!) devs are working on the WvWvW in GW2. That alone gives me hope the RvR is going to be the best PvP I've experienced since DAOC.
#1 in what sense? Population? Because yes I agree that WoW for the next couple years will (still) be the holder of the MMO market. But that's because WoW is already a distinguished game with lots of content. Another point supporting that idea, would be the presence of Blizzard as a company and it's long history of fantastic games. Blizzard backing WoW with a high level of priority will keep the game populated. The marketing is pretty genius afterall.
However, in my opinion, that's all it really is and will amount to be. I was once a WoWer, I played it because it was fun, challenging, and filled with wonderful content that made me feel like part of a massive world. Not so much anymore. People will migrate away from WoW, alot of casual players and hardcore players who are tired of the button mashing. Frankly, that's all I really want to happen. Someone mentioned, I believe it was the OP, that kids can easily jump in this world. Exactky so, they can- and that's whats wrong. I'm more of an adult now, I've aged in the past couple years; I need a game that can age with me and have more adult/challenging aspects. Not one that themizes expansions on pandas. Which is a topic for another thread I suppose.
Suffice it to say, WoW will only be #1 in terms of population and nothing else. The gameplay and innovation of the game is lacking and will not be able to keep up with the titles in the upcoming year of 2012.
Abandon The Fifth.
I hate to disagree, WoW won't hold the number one slot for long. I don't know who will take the spot maybe it will be Star Wars maybe not. This is no different the Everquest back in the day. It too held the number one slot and eventually it got knocked out of it spot but it has carried on and I expect World of Warcraft to do the same thing.
Blizzard could held on to the number one slot had the been smart. In all honesty had they had gone in to development for World of Warcraft then they would have stood a much better chance of holding on to the number one slot. Now does that mean they can develope a good sequal sure but I doubt it will ever retain the popularity that World of Warcraft enjoy for so many years.
One big element that will hurt World of Warcraft from here on out is that World of Warcraft is very much raiding game, loot driven. While these elements will still exist to some degree they will take a back seat to storyline and less raiding.
I think the nature of MMO is changing and I think those changes that will be popular will serious hurt World of Warcraft. There best bet is to change and develope World of Warcraft 2.
Being in the US Air Force gives you the ability to have the insight into peoples houses & into
their machines?
So your telling us this gives you factual statistical information on peoples PC specifications
because your in the USAF? oh & that you travel a bit? ...WTF
Woah... think im gonna sign up, with these sort of skills to offfer i may even predict this weeks
lottery numbers.
Anyway i agree with you that WoW is "well optimised" althouigh you took a long winded
approach to make this point, this really is only one factor into their sucess, the main fact
is that all other companies fail to create their own unique neich & offer something new
& fresh, its nothing to do with blizzard being the almighty saviours of gaming, in fact they
are the main contributer to the complete downfall of the MMO genre.
I lived in other countries for years at a time. Spent a lot of time at their local schools and colleges taking classes, working on their local computers, got to know the people around me. Sound that crazy? I don't need statistical information to walk into an Internet cafe in Japan, and see that the computers in the cafe are old as hell. So yes, being in the military and deployed to some other countries has given me some insight you may not have. Deal with it.Saying that the game being "well optimized" is the ONLY reason for their success is just a plain embarrassing statement. I believ there are many reasons for their success, this is just one of them.
It's funny how you know the system requirements for GW2... you may want to let them know, cause according to their site:
What are the system requirements for Guild Wars 2?
The system requirements haven't been finalized, but just as with the original Guild Wars series, we're committed to creating a beautiful game that will play great on mid-range gaming PCs.
You said that the game ran smoothly... even looking like complete and utter poop. You're getting 23 fps with 4 objects on the screen. Wouldn't exactly call it smooth...lol. You could more then likely run WoW on that machine and get 40 to 50 and have it look a hell of a lot better. So much for my "flaud" assumption. This plays right into my point. While other games are running like poop, WoW tends to run better, hence, more people on shitty computers have enjoyable access to WoW.
{mod edit}
*EDIT*
WoW's sucess is based on being a well optimsed game that will run on any piece of crap
also that they launched the game at a point where mmo's were becoming very popular due
to UO EQ SWG etc... plus the home pc market was growing fast at that time, finally the fact
they had about 3million users on battlenet from its previous popular titles such as warcraft3.
{mod edit}
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
You forgot the fact that its a good solid game and that the closest any game came to actually competing with it is now F2P. What makes WOW good "for all the dummys and little kids" is that everything elseto release since has been nothing but crap. Of course with the mentality of " I hate Blizz" i guess its easier just to rant and make shit up.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
It may be a good solid game but it severly lacks in areas that previous sanbox titles had, WoW
may have touched 12mill subs at one point but this doesn't make the the best mmo.
The most sucessful football teams in the world dont necessarily have the biggest fan base.
There were far better mmos prior to WoW, but i agree since WoW most have been poor with
no innovation or any nieche of their own only making WoW stronger, hence Blizzard being "lucky"
that no other company has come up with even a half decent game to compete until now (SW:TOR)
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
I didn't know WoW was number 1. Could of swore there was more popular MMos in the world then wow...
nha!it wont stay number one for very long,since activision sent a soldier in blizzard people have been going elsewhere.
some might believe it is unrelated but sad truth unconciuosly blizzard has been moving away from success only since that guy has been sent in there.blizzard might not think they changed but they did unconciously because they want to please the activison dude,and this is a nono.
as i said before activison boss need to recall his activison watchdog and let blizzard do what they do best success.
They really had ALOT of elements come together perfectly for them, basically winning the lottery x 100.
1.) $0E kicking in after purchase of Verant, ruining EQ1 slowly, tension builds and finally Gates of Discord & Omens of War sees a great portion of it's playerbase jumping ship.
2.) The Diablo franchise had a massive fanbase, Starcraft as well as Warcraft also. Ripe for hoovering up into WOW's sea of $$$.
3.) Even as a EQ1 raider going from EQ to WOW was like living for ten years on dogshit then one day feasting on a 30" German Chocolate Cake. (Player retention.)
4.) Early WoW was great for communities. TBC hurt it, WOTLK killed it. Cataclysm shit on it's corpse. (Retention.)
5.) All games released since WoW have had far too much to "catch up" on content wise. None have had appropriate funding, good design and developers who knew what they were doing. (Usually just one element or the other. See: Age of Conan.)
6.) WOW's only real potential competitor: Everquest 2, bombed out of the gates - everyone, and I mean EVERYONE hates $0E. The game was a cruel bastardization of EQ1 with the same ballbusting Korean-style nonsense everyone was tired of. Over the years they've greatly improved (by copying WOW features and enhancing them greatly, coupled with very, very indepth gameplay and a massive world) but it was too late, nobody will give it a second chance. (Though the game deserves it, $0E do not.)
Now it's petering out for the NA/EU markets, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the following year or so. I predict WoW will decline sharply around summer 2012, regardless of the competition. (SWTOR will fail because of EA and nobody wants WoW with a Starwars tileset/rebranding, GW2 will kill Rift, but not a big accomplishment...)
Since when is "severely outdated" become "well optimised" and "user friendly"..........
SWTOR is said to be able to played on machines that are mid ranged 6 years ago. Average requirement of a game has never jumped any higher than 8800GT(or equivalent) with 2 GB ram and Core2Duo 2.0GHz/Pentium 3.0GHZ. Your computer have to be so old that well........it should break down by now.
This isn't meant as an offense to anyone with lower quality computers, I don't have a great computer myself, but it is sufficient to run the coming MMO but not with highest graphics.
It really depends on what players expect from the game, a well optimised game can be played by the oldest of the machines, but just don't expect any fancy shaders or particle effects.
The only reason why I think WoW will remain NO.1 is that, people spent half their lives playing that game, they have achieved everything possible, why would they want to start at platform 0 again.
Everyone has that game that they always go back to, even if it isn't as well designed or good looking as the newer games, but because they have spent time earning the virtual goods, it actually mean something to them. Another downfall for a subscription game, you leave the game, you lose everything you earned before.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Why WoW will more then likely remain Number 1
A) Inertia. Takes a long, long time for that many people to get fed up.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Name these far better mmo's prior to WoW? And far better according to whom? You? It's quite obvious you simply hate WoW and therefore are arguing from a completely bias point of view. I play WoW and have just pre-ordered TOR - I play a game based on having fun, not the name or company. If I do quit playing WoW completely for TOR, I wouldn't come on these boards and bash WOW as it has brought me years of entertainment and I feel no need to personally attack/hate a game or game company, unlike some of you people.
It's a sickness of MY GAME MUST BE THE BEST. And it's sad.
Also, I don't quite understand your Football analogy here... the most sucessfull footballs teams in the world don't necessarily have the biggest fan base? By this analogy, any one person can make the claim that the game THEY are currently playing is the best game in the world.... as it may be ... to them. And who's grading the football team? A local team that plays 4 other teams could lay claim to the title "the best" as they only play 4 other teams. There has to be a scale to judge and with mmo's ,like it or not, it's subscriber base.
Reaching 12 million subs, however, breifly is a feat that no other mainstream monthly subscribing game has come close to achieving, so yes, I would say that would make it the most sucessfull mmo to date. Perhaps not the best for you personally, but again, there must be a way to judge the sucess of a game. If you don't judge games by the numbers of subscribers, there's really no other way to judge them is there?
The only reason the subscriber numbers are important, is because it will make or break a game. For example, I was severely in love with Shadowbane back in the day, but guess what.... they had about 3500-5000 players and the game fell to pieces and closed. The developers didn't seem to give a rats ass that WE thought it was the best game ever. The number's weren't there, the money wasn't there... so the game wasn't there. You need to judge a game by the sub base and hope it stays profitable... otherwise your game may not be around long.
So in closing... all of these "far better mmo's" from before WoW... if they truely were better and the subs don't necessarily matter.... where are they now? Why don't I hear of them? If WoW was a fluke and is as bad as you say, why aren't these older games burning up the charts? Is it possible that WoW is in fact a pretty good game that for some reason you just hate?
lol @OP, even if WoW lose 50% of it's subs, it will still be #1.
I'm actually thinking of re-subbing once 4.3 comes out and see if the changes to hunters will redeem itself. If not, I can always unsub.
Ready for GW2!!!
Fantasy out sells Sci Fi except at the movies. WoW will remain the dominant force until it destroys itself. I am not a fan of MoP. Not because of the Pandamen which just is content that I will not play, but rather because of the oversimplied the talent revamp. MoP is Blizzard's attempt to realign itself. Will blizzard succeed, I do not know.
I think people are leaving WoW because of a number of little reasons. Not just one big one. Too many little changes from cash shop to raiding changes to streamlined gear grind. None a reason in themselves but all contributing factors.
Also lack of competition. Now new competition this year hopefully players start having a proper choice. This is a good thing and will make companies start giving us what we want rather then giving us what we will put up with.
The reason Wow will stay number 1 is for the simple fact their movement is smooth. It all boils down to them having the secret on how to make everything move smoothly . Seriously, I have yet to boot up a game that has the same fluid motion as wow and my computer and graphics card are top notch. All that other blah blah blah stuff isnt what keeps people coming back. Its the flawless movement that they have a handle on.
to me Cata revamp removed grind from WoW, which is unique of MMO genre, then comes large world, lot of races with unique experience, many dungeons, easy group finding system & fun PVP.
WoW is casual relaxing game with lot of fun even if i regret to buy Cata as it not added much for lvl 80-85 and end game to me.
I'll may be play WoW again but I guess I'll not purchase new x-pack.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
I think WoW will maintain its number one position for another year or two but I think could easily lose between 3-6 million players next year .
Its huge even if it loses half its player base it will still be the biggest by a long way, even 3/4 of is base still makes it bigger than any other, question is, is it any good, even Bon Jovi has a huge fan base and he hasn't been good since Slippery When Wet!
I don't buy it WOW is already bleeding subs and thats just to decent games. It's older now, which wouldn't be so bad if they weren't abandoning their original base in favor of the Asian market. The same crowd that thinks wow will be number one for ten more years were the same people saying WOW will pass 14 million subs by last year. It may have millions of Asian market users right now, but ALOT of games have millions of Asian market players, I think its already on top in name only.
The game is still fun from time to time, but it's no longer the addictive game that it once was.
Let's be honest, the game really is a shadow of it's former self.
Yes, it has 'more features', but that doesn't really make it a 'better' game.
Some will say it's the shift in the game to assist casual or new gamers.
Others will say that it's a shift in the game to help grow their sub base in the Asian mrket.
...
Time and 'multiple' MMO's will kill WoW.
There is no single game that is 'the WoW-killer'. As more and more games come out, the playerbase will spread out into other games. They aren't going to flip a switch and jump from WoW immediately to 'game x'. We're not going to see some immediate and defining transfer of the heavyweight belt to some other game.
Old age and the freedom of choice will kill WoW.
...
That being said... TITAN is actually terminal cancer for WoW. As Blizzard resources are slowly pulled off of WoW and they are added to the Titan Dev team, that really takes a lot of the forward momentum that WoW had away. It doesn't have the internal creative power or resources to keep moving forward.
Blizz went through a significant growing pains with WoW as it grew. And I really don't think they are honestly capable of managing 2 MMORPG's + the other games in their stable.
Ask their support teams. Ghostcrawler and the other dev's can stand on the stage at Blizzcon and pound their chests all they like... but the folks working behind the scenes will tell you that they are spread too thinly.
And honestly, the next time the players ask for something and the Dev's respond with 'we really want to do that' or 'we've always wanted to do that'.... BUT... "we just haven't had enough time".... That answer is not acceptable.
If you've played WoW and been a loyal subscriber for all of the years that the game has been around, the last thing you really want to hear is 'well... we'd get to that... but... most of our focus is really on Titan...'. But that's the message that I'm getting.
Again... time and other games will kill WoW (Titan included).
WoW will remain the number 1 for 2 simple reasons...
A) Even if WoW loses 50% of its sub base it will still be much more succesfull than just about any other MMO on the market.
ToR for example is most likely the most expensive game ever developed(and i think will remain the most expensive one for good) by far, it uses a licnesed engine(HeroEngine) and other licensed tech like wwise and scaleform, it is based on by far the most expsive IP in history, it is fully voiced over, and it has to match the the content of a 7 year old title both in quantity and quality.
One of WoW's many achivements was to increase the development costs of a AAA MMO tenfold, not only do you have to match the quality but the inflation of the MMO market today also forces companies to be ready for the player rush that just about every major MMO release has these days. Blizzard not only was able to grow their infrastructure with the steady growth of their player base(becasue WoW at first didnt sell "THAT" well, it just continued to sell and sell and sell over a period of 2-3 years), it also could afford to delay the european launch by a year in order to be able financially to invest in the needed infrastructure there.
Today an MMO that even wants to compete with WoW has to be launched in the NA and EU markets allmost simultenuasly, which when combined with the overwhelming player rush that WoW's inflation of the MMO market causes forces companies to invest in infrastructure that can support 2-5 million players instead of the 200-250K that you would've needed 7-8 years ago.
Heck Blizzard was caught way off guard by their own launch that the bloody game was not playable during the first couple of months, they even stopped selling it in the US for a couple of months after launch to be able to keep up with their growth.
EA allready had a major financial fail with WAR, 8 years ago WAR could've been a very sccesfull game with with WoW on the market any game will have major issues to become successfull any time soon.
I dont know what EA's revenue sharing agreement with their various licensed tech, and im pretty sure a very nice sum of the revnue goes to lucas also, so considering that ToR cost around 80-100(tho i belive that amount is much higher, 80 mil is what EA had to pay, ToR was in development way before EA was ever in the picture) mill dollars to develop, and will probably cost another 20 or 30 millions a in various maintanence costs(exluding additional development) each year it will have some hard time to be profitable. Heck the costs of having the support staff for a game like WoW are in the millions each year, say 300 various game support and administrative personnel world wide making 45K US a year(Which is not allot) is alone 18M, add in keeping a development staff of 150-100 people which make around 100K a year thats another 10 to 15M a year, Server and infrastructure costs, various complience and insurance costs heck ToR will need allot of player to be succesfull. I honestly belive that a game as expensive to develope and to maintain needs around 2 Mill players world wide paying 13 US in average to be profitable.
Say 300M in gross revenue from playes, 2-5% from it goes to various biling providers like paypal, visa, amex etc, which leaves you with 285~, the corporate tax rate should be around 30-35% depending on the country and state and that leaves you with around 200-190M, take atleast another 50-60M out of that amount for operational expenses, and you left with what 150M a year? it sounds allot but thats before LA, EA and various other companies take a bite of that pie honestly that bearly leaves BW with enough funds for expansion packs(even tho they pay for them selves too) and additional content, not to mention actually seeing a good profit from their hard work.