If they really hired the best, everyone is SO experienced and things are so great -i wonder WHO the problem is then.
My chars approach their 40s now and after the game finally opened up more after lvl 30 (which is way too late), i stop and stare every now and then about how well and polished so many things are presented in Rift. And i wonder: How comes that a team who did all this great work can be so shallow in the conception of about all baseline mmorp-things and despite so many 'rules'?
-Why is there not a single iconic place in the games's world, as other games have plenty of them? Places you like to visit or farm at over and over again. In example Smith's Haven should be a smaller town, the entry area outside the Deepstrike Mines should be a massive zone of caves, mines and tunnels etc. In Rift every location with potential is just a teaser and then the player's already leaving again, never to come back.
-Why no cooking? Why aren't at least consumeables seperated in eating and drinking?
-Why no fishing? There a plenty of nice places ashore and 1.6 even comes with new water effects.
-Why so little ambiente? Where is the flock of birds startled by the crackling of an opening rift that not even the critters flee? Where's the butterflies and bees around on a peaceful meadow? Frogs at a pond? Bats in a cave?
-Why isn't there a single fun and fluff ability for any class? Levitate, Slow Fall, Find treasures, tame beats for pets..etc. etc.
-Same goes for fluff items. Where are the flutes, trains, googles, parachutes, polymorph sticks, telescopes...? Defiants with their machine fetish should shadow every goblin engineer when it comes to tinkering.
-Why is every 3rd talent in the various souls' trees is about the same in it's underlying mechanic?
-Why isn't there a greater emphasis on getting the players to play together instead of everyone can do everything on it's own?
Mr. Hanlin, i'm looking at all the obvious things lacking in Rift which no great team could possibly miss. So i'm asking you to elaborate again:
I tried Rift and loved it, great graphics and great starter area. I bought it and thought I'd finally turned my back on WoW after having lost interest in that MMO. Then I started to play Rift as regularly as I used to play WoW and realised just how good WoW is in comparison. I regret buying Rift and only got about 4 months from my 12 month subscription. I have no intention of throwing good money after bad.
Look at the quality of the quests in WoW. Blizzard have changed from the old "kill x amount of y" quests to lots of different quests, alongside the older-style "x of y" quests too.
The one good thing I can say about Rift is that it made me appreciate WoW again, oh, and it has good graphics. But then you can put dry bread into a fancy packet to sell it to more people, but it doesn't make the content any better, same applies to games.
I do have some sympathy with this . In many ways it is a lot like WoW but it offers more scope than WoW does now and certainly a lot more challenge .We also have to remember WoW itself is a clone and not original . Many people believe it to be the first mmo because its the first mmo they ever played so they think Blizzard came up with every idea for it themselves but they borrowed a lot from other games that came before it and also borrowed a lot from games released since . And now they are borrowing from Pixar . Theres an awful lot of borrowing goes on with Blizzard . lol
You made a WoW clone. It was somewhat fun for about a month. Then it wasn't. Please get over yourself.
Sincerely,
Arawnite, MMORPG player since 1996
{mod edit}.
{mod edit}
WoW was not a clone of any game before it. It took a little of this, a little of that, made its own game, and made its own identitiy. It was the first true theme park game (well eq2 beat it by a week, but it obviously dint copy off eq2) that featured quest hubs. it was the first MMO where levelling was geared towards solo players. It presented many of its ideas in a way that was quite different than eq1, DAoC, AC and UO.
Every single one of Rifts gameplay elements come directly from wow.
Leveling? assign a talent point into one of three trees, and visit a trainer every 2 levels to improve old spells
The UI looks absolutely nothing like eq, daoc, uo ac yet exactly like WoW
Tradeskills nothling like eq1, uo, daoc, ac....but...exactly like WoW
endgame entirely focused on dailies and token gear grind
PvP based on instanced battlegrounds where you grind for currency to buy gear with a pvp stat
The game clearly took WiW as a blueprint whereas WoW clearly started from scratch. WoW is in the same genre as what came before it, thats why their are similarities. Rift is a clone not because its same genre, but it based everything ti does off of WoW, and added rifts on top.
They try to refute the argument that Rift is a WoW clone by saying WoW is a clone itself. WoW and the games before it share the same genre.
Go find me the quotes of people saying in early 2005 'WoW was great fun at first, but in the end the game was no different than xxxxxx'. i can find you 100s of posts like this with rift/wow.
Rift is a wow clone, face it. Its not the first game to copy heavily from WoW, but it might have been the game that did so the most.
It's funny how people are so quick to tear apart someone's success story.
Is Rift the greatest game mmo since WoW? No.
Was Rift a successful game from a tiny unknown compay? Yes.
The article is giving a little inside look about how the game got to where it is from the development perspective nothing more nothing less
As a side note there is nothing revolutionary or game changing on what SW:TOR is. Three types of people will play that game Bioware fans, Star Wars fans, and people tired of fantasy based mmos. That's an awful lot of people and TOR will be successful for that sheer fact.
There was also nothing game changing or revolutionary about what Blizzard did with WoW from games like EQ, AC, FF, and UO. They just made a mmo less of a grindfest and more accessible to appeal to a greater audience and were successful.
They try to refute the argument that Rift is a WoW clone by saying WoW is a clone itself. WoW and the games before it share the same genre.
Go find me the quotes of people saying in early 2005 'WoW was great fun at first, but in the end the game was no different than xxxxxx'. i can find you 100s of posts like this with rift/wow.
Rift is a wow clone, face it. Its not the first game to copy heavily from WoW, but it might have been the game that did so the most.
How to tell a WoW Fanboi.
You state unquestionable history that WoW came after EQ, EQ2 and SWG then they claim it didn't elaments of those games and try to make them "new". Utter rubbish as Blizzard did what they usually do which is take other peoples ideas and make game similar.
Warcraft even copied the lore and races from Warhammer but a WoW fanboi will tell you that Blizzard invented elves, orcs and goblins. Sorry folks but Tolken did some many decades before Blizzard existed.
Please don't try to tell anyone with MMO knowledge that WoW invented the current UI standard for MMOs as it's complete rubbish, there all mush same across all online games and have been since EQ.
Warcraft is a clone of EQ2 as StarCraft is a clone of Command And Conquer etc because it's Blizzard have ever done it clone.
They try to refute the argument that Rift is a WoW clone by saying WoW is a clone itself. WoW and the games before it share the same genre.
Go find me the quotes of people saying in early 2005 'WoW was great fun at first, but in the end the game was no different than xxxxxx'. i can find you 100s of posts like this with rift/wow.
Rift is a wow clone, face it. Its not the first game to copy heavily from WoW, but it might have been the game that did so the most.
How to tell a WoW Fanboi.
You state unquestionable history that WoW came after EQ, EQ2 and SWG then they claim it didn't elaments of those games and try to make them "new". Utter rubbish as Blizzard did what they usually do which is take other peoples ideas and make game similar.
Warcraft even copied the lore and races from Warhammer but a WoW fanboi will tell you that Blizzard invented elves, orcs and goblins. Sorry folks but Tolken did some many decades before Blizzard existed.
Please don't try to tell anyone with MMO knowledge that WoW invented the current UI standard for MMOs as it's complete rubbish, there all mush same across all online games and have been since EQ.
Warcraft is a clone of EQ2 as StarCraft is a clone of Command And Conquer etc because it's Blizzard have ever done it clone.
Compare Rift's UI with WoW. Now compares WoWs Ui with EQ, AC, DAoC, UO, SWG and AO.
Why are the Devs on the main site forums deleting posts from the class sections forums instead of responding to them ?
For that matter, why are there only two Devs that even communicate at all with their class community instead of making changes with out thought of how they will effect the classes, test these changes, or even listen to the community on their thoughts of these changes ?
Many of the "out looked" changes in order to improve the roles of the classes brought about after release of 1.5 where reversed and the oppisate outcome has come to light in patch 1.6, being that what they wanted to do, advertised to the community they wanted to do, instead they did the oppisate.
Lastly, how many subs have you honestly lost in the last 24hs since the release of patch 1.6 because of the repeated ignoring of the community for RIft ?
If this all comes as a surprize to you, please look at your own site community forums to see for yourself how much YOUR Dev team ignores the people that play and pay for your game.
Come on now Hrimnir. You can't possibly consider the drivel being released in Rift to be labeled as content? I know you from the rift forums ( this is Apoc btw ) and I can't believe your chose to side with Trion on this one. I sighed up for a 6 mouth sub and was fed up 1 month into the game. Say what you want but all that game is is WoW in a different coat. The content they released at launch was laughable. Leveling is WAY too fast to enjoy the zone you're in. Max lvl in a weak to begin the "sit and que" part of the game. Crafting was a let down from the start and pvp... well let's face it. i don't consider what rift offers as pvp to be pvp. There more like arenas with rewards. now I'm getting off track. a few new bosses added to already in game dungeons does not make it true content. Now this 1.6 ember isle that's coming? now that's true content. but it's a little too late for me with Trion. The game world was already so small to begin with that I feel they would need to add a whole new continent with 8 new zones in it for me to come back. Now that would be CONTENT!! But a new 20 man raid zone? a new 10 man? 2 bosses added to preexisting instances? some wardrobe, vanity pets, busted ass world events? None of this constitutes as true "new" content. well maybe Hammerknel lol. I'll give you that one but nothing else.
I guess people just have different ideas and expectations of what content is.
I mean come on, RoS was added after launch, shortly after launch, thats a full 20 man raid zone. They then added a completely new 10 man raid after that. Raid rifts were added shortly after release. I'll agree with you on mastermodes, although the new bosses are new content, its really stretching to call that new content.
The reality is all im trying to do is to get people to look at the big picture and remove their absurd biases from their arguments. I know its an effort in futility, but just because you dont like something doesnt invalidate it. Like i said before, i HATE harry potter and i especially hate twilight, but that doesnt mean they aren't books. I can't go on a forum and say they're not books just because i dont like whats in the books. And thats exactly what people are doing for Rift, they don't like whats contained in the "books" so they claim its not valid or real content.
We can argue all we want, but even other MMO developers and especially long time MMO media organizations like ten ton hammer, etc, have expressed amazement at how quickly trion is able to create quality content for the game.
Now, if some people want to argue that the game released with less content than it should have, that would be a valid argument, but to say that what they've added since is not content is just absurdity.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I would like to say that Rift is the most polished and player friendly mmo (UI) out there and thats for sure and i would also have to accept the fact that, they did a lot of work cleaning up the game where it was needed but the most important thing that Rift is missing should be the repetitive content and dullness overall.
When you need a change in an mmo you generally decide to roll an alt character but you cant do that in Rift cause everything is the same like starting areas,quests... I am sorry to say this but Rift is in a very tough competition now that SWTOR is on its way...I could say that It was a nice ride while it lasted .
Comments
If they really hired the best, everyone is SO experienced and things are so great -i wonder WHO the problem is then.
My chars approach their 40s now and after the game finally opened up more after lvl 30 (which is way too late), i stop and stare every now and then about how well and polished so many things are presented in Rift. And i wonder: How comes that a team who did all this great work can be so shallow in the conception of about all baseline mmorp-things and despite so many 'rules'?
-Why is there not a single iconic place in the games's world, as other games have plenty of them? Places you like to visit or farm at over and over again. In example Smith's Haven should be a smaller town, the entry area outside the Deepstrike Mines should be a massive zone of caves, mines and tunnels etc. In Rift every location with potential is just a teaser and then the player's already leaving again, never to come back.
-Why no cooking? Why aren't at least consumeables seperated in eating and drinking?
-Why no fishing? There a plenty of nice places ashore and 1.6 even comes with new water effects.
-Why so little ambiente? Where is the flock of birds startled by the crackling of an opening rift that not even the critters flee? Where's the butterflies and bees around on a peaceful meadow? Frogs at a pond? Bats in a cave?
-Why isn't there a single fun and fluff ability for any class? Levitate, Slow Fall, Find treasures, tame beats for pets..etc. etc.
-Same goes for fluff items. Where are the flutes, trains, googles, parachutes, polymorph sticks, telescopes...? Defiants with their machine fetish should shadow every goblin engineer when it comes to tinkering.
-Why is every 3rd talent in the various souls' trees is about the same in it's underlying mechanic?
-Why isn't there a greater emphasis on getting the players to play together instead of everyone can do everything on it's own?
Mr. Hanlin, i'm looking at all the obvious things lacking in Rift which no great team could possibly miss. So i'm asking you to elaborate again:
How did you get there?
I tried Rift and loved it, great graphics and great starter area. I bought it and thought I'd finally turned my back on WoW after having lost interest in that MMO. Then I started to play Rift as regularly as I used to play WoW and realised just how good WoW is in comparison. I regret buying Rift and only got about 4 months from my 12 month subscription. I have no intention of throwing good money after bad.
Look at the quality of the quests in WoW. Blizzard have changed from the old "kill x amount of y" quests to lots of different quests, alongside the older-style "x of y" quests too.
The one good thing I can say about Rift is that it made me appreciate WoW again, oh, and it has good graphics. But then you can put dry bread into a fancy packet to sell it to more people, but it doesn't make the content any better, same applies to games.
for me this is still a wow clone .. sry Rift
I do have some sympathy with this . In many ways it is a lot like WoW but it offers more scope than WoW does now and certainly a lot more challenge .We also have to remember WoW itself is a clone and not original . Many people believe it to be the first mmo because its the first mmo they ever played so they think Blizzard came up with every idea for it themselves but they borrowed a lot from other games that came before it and also borrowed a lot from games released since . And now they are borrowing from Pixar . Theres an awful lot of borrowing goes on with Blizzard . lol
{mod edit}
WoW was not a clone of any game before it. It took a little of this, a little of that, made its own game, and made its own identitiy. It was the first true theme park game (well eq2 beat it by a week, but it obviously dint copy off eq2) that featured quest hubs. it was the first MMO where levelling was geared towards solo players. It presented many of its ideas in a way that was quite different than eq1, DAoC, AC and UO.
Every single one of Rifts gameplay elements come directly from wow.
Leveling? assign a talent point into one of three trees, and visit a trainer every 2 levels to improve old spells
The UI looks absolutely nothing like eq, daoc, uo ac yet exactly like WoW
Tradeskills nothling like eq1, uo, daoc, ac....but...exactly like WoW
endgame entirely focused on dailies and token gear grind
PvP based on instanced battlegrounds where you grind for currency to buy gear with a pvp stat
The game clearly took WiW as a blueprint whereas WoW clearly started from scratch. WoW is in the same genre as what came before it, thats why their are similarities. Rift is a clone not because its same genre, but it based everything ti does off of WoW, and added rifts on top.
how to tell a rift fanboi:
They try to refute the argument that Rift is a WoW clone by saying WoW is a clone itself. WoW and the games before it share the same genre.
Go find me the quotes of people saying in early 2005 'WoW was great fun at first, but in the end the game was no different than xxxxxx'. i can find you 100s of posts like this with rift/wow.
Rift is a wow clone, face it. Its not the first game to copy heavily from WoW, but it might have been the game that did so the most.
It's funny how people are so quick to tear apart someone's success story.
Is Rift the greatest game mmo since WoW? No.
Was Rift a successful game from a tiny unknown compay? Yes.
The article is giving a little inside look about how the game got to where it is from the development perspective nothing more nothing less
As a side note there is nothing revolutionary or game changing on what SW:TOR is. Three types of people will play that game Bioware fans, Star Wars fans, and people tired of fantasy based mmos. That's an awful lot of people and TOR will be successful for that sheer fact.
There was also nothing game changing or revolutionary about what Blizzard did with WoW from games like EQ, AC, FF, and UO. They just made a mmo less of a grindfest and more accessible to appeal to a greater audience and were successful.
How to tell a WoW Fanboi.
You state unquestionable history that WoW came after EQ, EQ2 and SWG then they claim it didn't elaments of those games and try to make them "new". Utter rubbish as Blizzard did what they usually do which is take other peoples ideas and make game similar.
Warcraft even copied the lore and races from Warhammer but a WoW fanboi will tell you that Blizzard invented elves, orcs and goblins. Sorry folks but Tolken did some many decades before Blizzard existed.
Please don't try to tell anyone with MMO knowledge that WoW invented the current UI standard for MMOs as it's complete rubbish, there all mush same across all online games and have been since EQ.
Warcraft is a clone of EQ2 as StarCraft is a clone of Command And Conquer etc because it's Blizzard have ever done it clone.
Compare Rift's UI with WoW. Now compares WoWs Ui with EQ, AC, DAoC, UO, SWG and AO.
It really sums up the point quite nicely.
If the release of patch 1.6 is so wonderful,
Why are the Devs on the main site forums deleting posts from the class sections forums instead of responding to them ?
For that matter, why are there only two Devs that even communicate at all with their class community instead of making changes with out thought of how they will effect the classes, test these changes, or even listen to the community on their thoughts of these changes ?
Many of the "out looked" changes in order to improve the roles of the classes brought about after release of 1.5 where reversed and the oppisate outcome has come to light in patch 1.6, being that what they wanted to do, advertised to the community they wanted to do, instead they did the oppisate.
Lastly, how many subs have you honestly lost in the last 24hs since the release of patch 1.6 because of the repeated ignoring of the community for RIft ?
If this all comes as a surprize to you, please look at your own site community forums to see for yourself how much YOUR Dev team ignores the people that play and pay for your game.
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/classes-telara/
Just a small correction to what you said Warcraft (original RTS) is actually a clone of Dune 2 and C&C is a clone of WC to a certain extent
I guess people just have different ideas and expectations of what content is.
I mean come on, RoS was added after launch, shortly after launch, thats a full 20 man raid zone. They then added a completely new 10 man raid after that. Raid rifts were added shortly after release. I'll agree with you on mastermodes, although the new bosses are new content, its really stretching to call that new content.
The reality is all im trying to do is to get people to look at the big picture and remove their absurd biases from their arguments. I know its an effort in futility, but just because you dont like something doesnt invalidate it. Like i said before, i HATE harry potter and i especially hate twilight, but that doesnt mean they aren't books. I can't go on a forum and say they're not books just because i dont like whats in the books. And thats exactly what people are doing for Rift, they don't like whats contained in the "books" so they claim its not valid or real content.
We can argue all we want, but even other MMO developers and especially long time MMO media organizations like ten ton hammer, etc, have expressed amazement at how quickly trion is able to create quality content for the game.
Now, if some people want to argue that the game released with less content than it should have, that would be a valid argument, but to say that what they've added since is not content is just absurdity.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I would like to say that Rift is the most polished and player friendly mmo (UI) out there and thats for sure and i would also have to accept the fact that, they did a lot of work cleaning up the game where it was needed but the most important thing that Rift is missing should be the repetitive content and dullness overall.
When you need a change in an mmo you generally decide to roll an alt character but you cant do that in Rift cause everything is the same like starting areas,quests... I am sorry to say this but Rift is in a very tough competition now that SWTOR is on its way...I could say that It was a nice ride while it lasted .
This is the best non-biased comment so far.