DeaconX Reviews SWTOR (5 months of testing)

Hellfyre420 · November 2011

Hmm well this just reasured ill love this game.. Almost everything i care about was rated highly by you lol.. Still, this is someone elses opinion based on beta testing so i can only take it with a grain of salt.

Clubmaster22 · November 2011

Originally posted by TUX426
I think the review just confirms my belief that some people have outgrown gaming.

Nothing personal and I don't mean it as an insult. I just think as people grow, they look for more than they should from a game.

I'm currently playing a little Offline-RPG called Skyrim, which shines in all the departments this game is sorely lacking (graphics, variety, customisation, etc.). I love the game and get totally immersed in it. TOR on the other hand, with it's multi-million budget and extremely popular franchise looks like a cheap cash-in in comparison. Skyrim is a better MMO structurally than TOR and that's really ironic.

Bottom line: It's not that we as consumers "look for more then we should", it's just that Bioware cut too many corners here and as a result produce an uninspired cash-in. It's not really broken or bad like FF XIV for example, it's just too little, too late and too lazy.

MarlonB · November 2011

I only played the game on every gamescon the past 3 years .. 3 sessions of 15 minutes.

The map was indeed horrid, unintuitive ... the combat dull (aren't they supposed to fight back??) and it felt guided and lifeless.

So .. i recognise already a few points you mentioned in your review/opinion/post/scribble whatever people would like to categorise it. There for i also believe in all the other statements you made.

However, i will find the enjoyment in playing this with friends .. like i do in any online multiplayer.

C1d0s · November 2011

Not of fan of this review, but that's because I believe the OP never quite caught-on that SWTOR isn't / never was the SWG 2.0 everyone seemed to want.

Well, that and I actually enjoyed my time in beta.

Which makes me wonder: Why stay in BETA for 5 months if, as you wrote, it was only a mediocre experience at best? That doesn't make much sense to me, regardless of whatever forced pleasure you tried to squeeze from it. If the game doesn't work for you, it just doesn't work. That's that! Happend to me with LOTRO / GW, but you never saw me sticking around for months on end just to satisfy my MMO needs.

At any rate, the post seemed nit-picky and biased ( but what isn't now-a-days ). Still, if you share the OP's views on MMOs and what constitues fun in them, I suppose you could gain something meaningful from the post.

For me, I'll stick with MY personal experience and leave it at that.

But, for the negative post in a slew of brain-dead positives.. I'll give you a +1, lol

Redemp · November 2011

People seem to be getting bent way to out of shape over this review. The guy played for five months, he listed the things he doesn't like about the game. He even came back a second time and detailed some of the systems he does like, while clarifying a few questions. If you take the scores completely out of the review , it reads differently and is a decent critique of what he has a five month tester would like to see changed or expanded upon. There is absolutely nothing the matter with seemingly negative reviews , nor biased reviews. There are certainly more biased and negative reviews to refute out there, I think picking on this one which seems very tame to my tastes is futile.

There are a few of you long-term testers, who enjoy the game, here who should have just posted once and moved on. You begin to erode your own credibility after reaching the forum equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming " I'm right and you're wrong" .

The review seems par for the course, it says nothing that even the good reviews haven't.

/shrug

-- Just in case people think I don't like Swtor. I have preordered a copy for each of my family and am waiting eagerly for it to launch.

MMO.Maverick · November 2011

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Bottom line: It's not that we as consumers "look for more then we should", it's just that Bioware cut too many corners here and as a result produce an uninspired cash-in. It's not really broken or bad like FF XIV for example, it's just too little, too late and too lazy.

Feel free to move on to other MMO's or games that might excite you and good luck trying to find an MMO that uses Skyrim style mechanics throughout its world.

Personally I see SWTOR easily on the level of content amount and themepark features as WoW, LotrO and Aion and bigger than Rift in several ways, so to those who are still able to enjoy themepark MMO's, SWTOR will be a great addition to the themepark genre, from what I've seen it looks like it'll easily rank in the top 3 of current AAA titles regarding player activity and success.

BadSpock · November 2011

Apparently following the tried and true metrics of proven-to-work game mechanics and features is "cutting corners?"

Next time I buy a car with a round stearing wheel and a gas pedal I'll complain that the manufacturer is "cutting corners" but not making the wheel square and the gas pedal instead a blow-tube, the harder you blow the faster you go!

Terrible... I know...

Do I have to get into why all FPS games use some sort of HUD now days and similar, genre defining "best practices?"

I mean, to hell with standards right? Let's make everyone re-learn everything for each new game and let's take what has been thoughtfully designed, tested, and proven over time and make it cumbersome, unintuitive, and poorly designed just so we don't get accused of "cutting corners."

Warjin · November 2011

Originally posted by DeaconX
Some of you may recognize me (I've been absent for quite some time) as the guy who started the BioWare Star Wars MMO Facts & Rumors thread way back in 2006 I believe it was. I followed the game, did some investigating, and overall just wasted a bunch of time delivering circumstantial evidence. Well the long wait is finally over, and...

MY OVERALL RATING IS: 6.5/10

Getting Started: 10/10 - It's as straight forward and streamlined as can be. There have been no issues 'getting started'

Server selection: 9/10 - This has gotten better over time - though I preferred the color bars that show how full a server is to just a word.

Character Creation: 4/10 - Is there one? Yeah sure. Does it live up to expectations for an MMORPG launching in late 2011? Heck no. It's actually one of the biggest disappointments.

-Body proportions are just awful for the most part, in my opinion. You've got thin, average, football player, and 1 big mac away from a coronary. What's wrong with sliders most modern MMORPG's use to define the body?

-Hair is atrocious. There are maybe a handful of decent options. Pick up a hairstyle magazine, choose some cool ones, get CREATIVE with it. It's STAR WARS. Simply uninspired and sloppy work - sorry to be so harsh but can anyone really defend it?

-Silly restrictions, such as only certain classes can have tattoos, piercings etc.

-Cybernetics are just a write off. They look uncreative, poorly designed, slapped on and ugly. Also, why the heck would cybernetics options add facial hair? What if someone likes one of the options, but hates that stupid mustache it comes with -- for no reason. Is it a cybernetic mustache?

I could go on but... to the rest of the review...

Quest intro: 6/10 - They aren't the most exciting but they're decently written enough. I do think they could have been MUCH more engaging off the bad. I know for certain that I could write a more exciting introduction for each class, so I was a bit sad to see how tame the writers went. Like the opening scene in a movie, this should grab the player a lot more than it did.

Combat: 6/10 - It's a slight step forward from the standard mmo's of yesteryear. Personally, if you want us to feel heroic and go with this combat system, I'd through about 3 times as many NPC's at the players but have weapons deal much more damage so it feels like you're plowing down the enemy and the only time you start feeling the panic is when you're truly outnumbered. CC's already a big part of the game anyway. Don't outnumber a player 3 to 1 and have them pretty much stand around spamming skills while enemies slowly go down. Outnumber the player 5 to 1 with enemies dropping much quicker. That would already make you feel like more of a badass.

Itemization: 6/10 - The FIRST item drop you get in game SHOULD be for your class. Teach new players early about upgrading gear, get them excited and hooked to get more. This never happened to me. Also, a lot of the gear, especially starter gear, is pretty lame. If I'm a havok trooper, shouldn't I get even a weaker set of armor out of the gate? I looked like I was a mechanic or something. Switching out one shirt of the same shirt with slightly different color isn't much fun either. Appearance tab would greatly help here.

Inventory: 7/10 - I like how much space is given to the player and the fact that it's fairly easy to upgrade your inventory, however I do find the pricing is way too steep. It goes from 5K for one row, to 20K for the next row? Ouch.

Character Sheet: 7/10 - It's functional even if a little clunky. Nothing special really, but it serves it's purpose.

Movement: 6/10 - I find the characters run WAY too slow out of the gate, which isn't a lot of fun. Until you get sprint. JUMP is a little weak and could definitely use a bit of a boost. There is no: Climbing, Swimming, Crawling etc, which all makes the world feel less real because we can't interact with it. It's a bit of a shame but sadly standard mmo fare. MMO designers could learn a little something from the platforming gameplay of the UNCHARTED series of games.

Zones: 5/10 - As many others have described including my friends, a lot of the time the zones feel like hallways. Sometimes the hallway is a little thicker in places, but you pretty much always feel like you're in a contained, controlled environment. This pretty much kills exploration for me. It's missing the truly vast and interesting open world feeling. Still, they're decently designed and the art direction of the environments is much better than they are for the characters.

Graphics in game: 6/10 - Artistic Direction for Characters is pretty uninspired. Artistic direction for just about everything else is much better. As far as textures, lighting, etc go, it's pretty standard when compared to any recent MMORPG.

Story Line/Voice overs: 9/10 - Stories are pretty decent - I think many people will be much more impressed them than I am. Not to say I don't enjoy them, I just believe many of them could have been better written, including some of the dialogue such as:

NPC: "Do you know anything about those explosions we've been hearing?"

Player: "I don't know. They must have been explosions."

The MAP: 5/10 - It's functional, but I find myself squinting sometimes. The mini-map can be confusing when icons are really close to each other. The main map only lets you select ONE search request at a time. Trainer, Bank, etc. Why is there no 'Show All' option? Been asking for that for months.

Guild Options: 4/10 - Guild support is fairly weak at the moment. Not a whole lot there yet but I'm sure it's coming.

Crafting: 6/10 - A lot of crafters are NOT going to be happy with this. Personally, I've never been into crafting and SWTOR did not change that for me. However, I do enjoy the companion missions and resource gathering more than in other MMO's for some reason.

Space: 5/10 - I see this space experience as 'Space Combat on Training Wheels.' Hopefully, a robust space adventure system will come later on that ISN'T just single player, and allows players to join their friends aboard one ship, take control of blaster cannons while the pilot does their best to evade the enemy, perhaps there could be an engineering mini-game to fix shields up, etc.

Housing: 5/10 - The only housing in game right now is your ship, which also serves as your transportation of course. There's no way to really make it your own, so really it's just a stage for certain cinematics, a crafting station and bank nearby. It's a clever route to take with housing for now, however without any control over the look of your 'home', it feels lacking. You also have no choice of your ship as it's class bound so if you don't like your class' ship, tough.

Summary of thoughts:

As BioWare’s first MMO, I’m certain it will be a great success. As a fan of Star Wars, BioWare and MMORPG’s, I find the game to be an odd mix of robust and lacking. There is PLENTY of game content to keep players happy for a while, but the question is, what happens when the players have devoured that content?

MMO grinders will whip through the game – they always do. There’s nothing so revolutionary about the game that will slow them. The cinematic storytelling may cause a few players to slow down and enjoy the game but ultimately it’s more or less the same as any MMORPG.

When the powergamers are through with TOR, they will likely look for the next MMORPG and this is where I think BioWare may have fallen short on the design and I hope they prove me wrong.

An audience I don’t think they paid much attention to (perhaps for short term business reasons) are the players who are really looking for extended Star Wars escapism. That would be your role players, your communities who want to build cities and big guild empires together – I know I know, this isn’t SWG. That’s all well and good – but it also doesn’t cater to those fans who WANT that kind of immersion.

Character creation is important to many people, not just role players. Sadly, it’s lacking. Powergamers won’t have an issue with that as they don’t get attached to their characters for the most part aside from how ‘leet’ they are.

There’s very little control over appearance once you’re in the game – something I hear BioWare is working on so we’ll get an appearance tab. That will help – a lot.

There’s VERY little incentive or even ability for people to form in game relationships and build communities. Guild system is very basic. You’ve got your friends list. Your player home is a ship that you can’t customize in any way. You cannot ‘MOVE IN’ to this Star Wars universe in its current state and that’s something I hope they address. Give us a galaxy we can move into and I promise you, we WILL and we’ll stick around a LOT longer than people who want to just consume content, play some PVP then move on to the next hot game.

Perhaps BioWare was so focused on controlling the player experience to maximize ‘fun’ they missed the point of how much fun it is for the players to have some degree of freedom and control over their game experience.

In closing, I believe BioWare still has their work cut out for them if they hope to retain people over the long haul but they will have a great launch.

Thank you for reading - please feel free to ask any questions.

--Few questions answered; Addid in case anyone missed them:

Originally posted by Redemp

I didn't notice if you stated it, but how long did you beta test the game?

5 Months

Originally posted by skeaser

So the zones never open up? I'd only managed to finish the first 2 planets last weekend and was hoping things would open up later, I guessed that's why you couldn't get a bike until higher level. This bums me out, I need to EXPLORE!

They do open up somewhat, but never to the degree that has made me feel like there’s a world to explore. That being said, with the design route they went I’m sure they will be constantly adding onto the world zones.

Please don’t misunderstand me; the worlds aren’t ‘small’. The way a lot of it has been laid out however, feels restricting and there doesn’t seem to be much to find when you go off any beaten path.

Originally posted by Supersoups

I would like to ask what OP means when he says there is very less incentive to forrm communities in SWTOR? as far as i see incentive is PVP (both open and instanced), Flashpoints, Heroics and other group oriented PVE content.

Every guild is allowed to have 3 ally guilds so tools are there to form communities. What other incentive is needed to play together?

Could you please answer my question? my guild already has ally guilds all ready and set for launch days and not even once we thought that we lack incentives to form a strong community among ourselves and that is how we felt during beta too.

Now there’s a difference between grouping and creating a community. Right now, grouping only actually needs to be done for Flashpoints, some Heroic missions (some 2+ heroics can actually be solo’d..hehe, ‘Solo’d’, get it?).

The guild support is pretty bare minimum right now. I hope to see awesome guild locations in the future (BioWare has talked about Guild Capital Ships… awesome? Yes.) and maybe some player cities way later – I know it’s not SWG, but people really LOVE forging their own environment and become very attached to content like this which keeps them playing for the long run, growing a strong community etc.

Originally posted by solarine

Reading that comprehensive post, the first thing I thought was "Aww, it's such a pity Deacon did not enjoy the game". And I am serious: You were so excited about SWTOR even *before* it was announced Bioware was working on it. And you were sort of the go-to guy for the fresh and interesting bit of news.

Much-belated kudos to you for those times, by the way.

Thank you for your thoughts heh J I should note that while my review was very critical (and do I really have to state it was a personal and thus obviously biased review?) I have had fun with TOR.

Especially when grouping. The absolute best part of TOR in my opinion are the FLASHPOINTS and pretty much any time you get in a multiplayer conversation. The Flashpoints are fun, they feel like adventure and the multiplayer convo is a cool mix of competition/co-operation.

Originally posted by arieste

Thank you for reading - please feel free to ask any questions.

Good write-up. One of the best reviews I've read. Thanks.

Only thing I wonder about is this - you say you weren't impressed wtih the storyline, yet you still rank it 9/10. I find myself in the same boat, i'm not at all impressed with the quality of the writing, but the vast majority of people seem to think it's "amazing"... maybe it's because they've only played MMOs with really bad writing before...

I’m not too impressed because as a writer and an avid Star Wars fan, I think a lot of it could have been much stronger, more exciting and more engaging. However, I do believe that a LOT of the population will really enjoy it and will find it very strong and they should, because no MMO out there can compare with the storytelling TOR is bringing to the genre.

Originally posted by Teala

Actually Deacon is, was, one of the biggest fans of this gmae when it first was announced. I remember howexcited he was when he heardit was being made. His write up was really accurate on he whole of the game for the most part. To just blow off his commentary like he doesn't know what he is talking about is wrong. He is an avid MMORPG gamer with lots of experience beta testing and playing these games. I for one appreciate the time and effort he took to write this up. Thanks Deacon!

Teala! Great to see you still around here J and thanks for the kind words.

-- To explain my lacking enthusiasm for TOR in my post history, well, that just came with the more I learned the less I was excited about many directions BioWare was opting to go in. Not that it's wrong, I was simply less enthusiastic.

Still, go play it, you'll likely have fun. This is just my experience with it and I hope it will gradually improve with time and further development, even if core features aren't about to change.

As for GW2, it's a whole different topic but yes I've been impressed with what ArenaNet is doing with it and believe it could be a really fun MMORPG for me.

I respect your review, but "PLEASE BEFORE ANY MORE REVIEWS FROM ANYBODY" tell us your MMO backround, what games you have played the longest so we can get a better understanding of your psychiatrist profile, some gamers just don't like the "AkA"(WoW template) type MMO's and that's ok, but many do, some like sandbox other something of a different bred all together.

P.S I disagree with about 75% of your review but that's ok , I personally think GW2 sucks from what I seen but that doesn't mean it will suck for everyone, it's just not my cup of tea.

Zenjinx · November 2011

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Skyrim is a better MMO structurally than TOR and that's really ironic.

I'm sorry to single out this statement, but really? You are comparing a single player game to an MMO? Do you know the meaning of irony?

How many real people do you play with at the same time in Skyrim? If the answer is zero (and I don't mean any kind of match play), then you have yourself a single player game. This by design has no MMO structure, both programatically and in content.

C1d0s · November 2011

We should have tea together.

Clubmaster22 · November 2011

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Feel free to move on to other MMO's or games that might excite you and good luck trying to find an MMO that uses Skyrim style mechanics throughout its world.

I wanted Star Wars TOR to be really great. It is not my fault that it is merely decent. That's still better than 99% of the competitors of late but still, shouldn't we demand more instead of ducking and buying everything the industry throws at us just because we're sick of WoW?

MindTrigger · November 2011

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by MindTrigger

You people are simply wrong. Someone point me to a review on this website, written by anyone, that reads like a list of facts. One without subjective opinion in it. I look forward to your many links.

What you are talking about is a list of facts, not a review. I have yet to see a review that reads like this.

Perhaps you missed the part where most people of intelligence have always questioned or even sharply criticized the very nature of video game reviews from sites like this and other more main-stream sites?

Which is why a few posts ago I said "everyone is a shill for someone/something in the end."

Make more sense now?

Be it corporate masters, sponsers, or their own bias.

Try and keep up...

You are a real cartoon character, aren't you? I'm still waiting for you to address the problem you seem to have with logical falacy and straw man arguments in your so-called "logical" posts. There seems to be some dissonance in your online persona and reality.

"Most people of intelligence" do not care if someone on a gaming web forum uses the word 'review" or "my opinion" to decribe his posts. People of intelligence who have spent multiple years on this forum (and the internet as a whole) know very well that little more than opinion is posted here, especially when the word "review" is employed as a description. Also, the word "review" seems to have evolved in popular culture, since just about everything labeled a review, is made of opinion these days. You may want to adjust your personal definition of the word to account for this so you don't have to have multi-page arguments about it. It seems the word is open to interpretation for most humans.

The only thing I "shill" for, is my own opinion. I doubt very seriously if you would be any happier if the OP used the term 'Op Ed" rather than "Review" to descripe his post.

Robsolf · November 2011

Originally posted by omome
Ever since DeaconX began to realize TOR wasn't going to be anything like SWG, he's been acting like someone peed in his cheerios.

Busted...

C'mon, man... it was months ago and it was an accident! I bought him a new box...

BadSpock · November 2011

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Feel free to move on to other MMO's or games that might excite you and good luck trying to find an MMO that uses Skyrim style mechanics throughout its world.

I wanted Star Wars TOR to be really great. It is not my fault that it is merely decent. That's still better than 99% of the competitors of late but still, shouldn't we demand more instead of ducking and buying everything the industry throws at us just because we're sick of WoW?

I am always curious as to what people mean when they say stuff like this -

In what specific ways would you like to see MMOs change to hold closer to your ideal? Specifically in relation to TOR?

Clubmaster22 · November 2011

Originally posted by Zenjinx

I'm sorry to single out this statement, but really? You are comparing a single player game to an MMO? Do you know the meaning of irony?
How many real people do you play with at the same time in Skyrim? If the answer is zero (and I don't mean any kind of match play), then you have yourself a single player game. This by design has no MMO structure, both programatically and in content.

The irony is that Skyrim ist structurally a better MMO WITHOUT BEEING an MMO of course. Thought that was obvious. Skyrim has a sense of freedom, adventure and danger about it, that drew many of us towards the MMO-Genre in the early days. TOR however - as most of it contemporaries - just feels like going through the motions. It's safe, tame, linear, unispiring. Not exactly bad but dull.

Supersoups · November 2011

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by Zenjinx

I'm sorry to single out this statement, but really? You are comparing a single player game to an MMO? Do you know the meaning of irony?

How many real people do you play with at the same time in Skyrim? If the answer is zero (and I don't mean any kind of match play), then you have yourself a single player game. This by design has no MMO structure, both programatically and in content.

The irony is that Skyrim ist structurally a better MMO WITHOUT BEEING an MMO of course. Thought that was obvious. Skyrim has a sense of freedom, adventure and danger about it, that drew many of us towards the MMO-Genre in the early days. TOR however - as most of it contemporaries - just feels like going through the motions. It's safe, tame, linear, unispiring. Not exactly bad but dull.

I really don't care for changing your opinion you have all the right to dislike a game but SWTOR is not completely safe or tame, neither it is linear. As far as uninispiring? well that is matter of prespective.

BadSpock · November 2011

Originally posted by MindTrigger
You are a real cartoon character, aren't you? I'm still waiting for you to address the problem you seem to have with logical falacy and straw man arguments in your so-called "logical" posts. There seems to be some dissonance in your online persona and reality.

"Most people of intelligence" do not care if someone on a gaming web forum uses the word 'review" or "my opinion" to decribe his posts. People of intelligence who have spent multiple years on this forum (and the internet as a whole) know very well that little more than opinion is posted here, especially when the word "review" is employed as a description. Also, the word "review" seems to have evolved in popular culture, since just about everything labeled a review, is made of opinion these days. You may want to adjust your personal definition of the word to account for this so you don't have to have multi-page arguments about it. It seems the word is open to interpretation for most humans.

The only thing I "shill" for, is my own opinion. I doubt very seriously if you would be any happier if the OP used the term 'Op Ed" rather than "Review" to descripe his post. By the way, someone who claims genius status like you do may want to go ahead and make note that "rather then" is incorrect.

Going grammar Nazi on me now?

Attacking the poster not the post, wonderful tactic.

At the end of the day, I don't like seeing biased rants passed off as "reviews" because I know people will read them and use them to help formulate their own opinion because they haven't played said game and are thus unable to form their own impressions.

This goes both ways, by the way, in terms of overly positive and overly negative op-eds.

I'm much more of a "take it with a grain of salt, form your own opinion based on experience not word of mouth" kind of guy.

But I also give added value to people whose opinons are backed with rational arguments, a clear sign of perspective beyond their own viewpoints, and at least a "give it my best" attempt at eliminating bias.

The OP failed to do any of these things, so my ORIGINAL post in this thread still stands -

Biased quote "review" is biased. Dismiss and move along...

and btw according to date and post count I've been on this site a lot longer then you sir

and in terms of my logic.. well, it's like science and magic - science always sounds like magic until you understand it

That's why I'm Bad Spock, not Spock, didn't you see the goatee?

Teala · November 2011

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by Zenjinx

I'm sorry to single out this statement, but really? You are comparing a single player game to an MMO? Do you know the meaning of irony?

How many real people do you play with at the same time in Skyrim? If the answer is zero (and I don't mean any kind of match play), then you have yourself a single player game. This by design has no MMO structure, both programatically and in content.

The irony is that Skyrim ist structurally a better MMO WITHOUT BEEING an MMO of course. Thought that was obvious. Skyrim has a sense of freedom, adventure and danger about it, that drew many of us towards the MMO-Genre in the early days. TOR however - as most of it contemporaries - just feels like going through the motions. It's safe, tame, linear, unispiring. Not exactly bad but dull.

I really don't care for changing your opinion you have all the right to dislike a game but SWTOR is not completely safe or tame, neither it is linear. As far as uninispiring? well that is matter of prespective.

Not linear - SW:ToR? Next you'll be telling us it is not a themepark - right?

Supersoups · November 2011

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by Zenjinx

I'm sorry to single out this statement, but really? You are comparing a single player game to an MMO? Do you know the meaning of irony?

How many real people do you play with at the same time in Skyrim? If the answer is zero (and I don't mean any kind of match play), then you have yourself a single player game. This by design has no MMO structure, both programatically and in content.

The irony is that Skyrim ist structurally a better MMO WITHOUT BEEING an MMO of course. Thought that was obvious. Skyrim has a sense of freedom, adventure and danger about it, that drew many of us towards the MMO-Genre in the early days. TOR however - as most of it contemporaries - just feels like going through the motions. It's safe, tame, linear, unispiring. Not exactly bad but dull.

I really don't care for changing your opinion you have all the right to dislike a game but SWTOR is not completely safe or tame, neither it is linear. As far as uninispiring? well that is matter of prespective.

Not linear - SW:ToR? Next you'll be telling us it is not a themepark - right?

Oh please, try the game for yourself this weekend if you havent done it already. Even personal story in GW2 is linear. Out of your personal storyline once you reach Corsucant you can pretty much go in any direction you like. Thanks for useless sarcasm though.

Robsolf · November 2011

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

The irony is that Skyrim ist structurally a better MMO WITHOUT BEEING an MMO of course. Thought that was obvious. Skyrim has a sense of freedom, adventure and danger about it, that drew many of us towards the MMO-Genre in the early days. TOR however - as most of it contemporaries - just feels like going through the motions. It's safe, tame, linear, unispiring. Not exactly bad but dull.

You know, I could say that a milk crate holds books better than a bookshelf does, but that doesn't make it a freaking bookshelf.

Zenjinx · November 2011

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by Zenjinx

I'm sorry to single out this statement, but really? You are comparing a single player game to an MMO? Do you know the meaning of irony?

How many real people do you play with at the same time in Skyrim? If the answer is zero (and I don't mean any kind of match play), then you have yourself a single player game. This by design has no MMO structure, both programatically and in content.

The irony is that Skyrim ist structurally a better MMO WITHOUT BEEING an MMO of course. Thought that was obvious. Skyrim has a sense of freedom, adventure and danger about it, that drew many of us towards the MMO-Genre in the early days. TOR however - as most of it contemporaries - just feels like going through the motions. It's safe, tame, linear, unispiring. Not exactly bad but dull.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. There is still a problem comparing these games though. I know Skyrim is an epic game, but do you really think it is possible to have that whole feature set in a current MMO?

I could see it in the future (barring alot of single player issues that do not transfer to MMOs very well). A prime example of this for a persistent world would be the perma-death of an NPC who is part of the game. Only the people interacting up to the NPCs death would enjoy the content. This is not a problem for single player but in an MMO, it is a huge problem.

This is just some of the reason why you cannot fairly compare something like Skyrim to an MMO.

C1d0s · November 2011

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

Originally posted by Zenjinx

I'm sorry to single out this statement, but really? You are comparing a single player game to an MMO? Do you know the meaning of irony?

How many real people do you play with at the same time in Skyrim? If the answer is zero (and I don't mean any kind of match play), then you have yourself a single player game. This by design has no MMO structure, both programatically and in content.

The irony is that Skyrim ist structurally a better MMO WITHOUT BEEING an MMO of course. Thought that was obvious. Skyrim has a sense of freedom, adventure and danger about it, that drew many of us towards the MMO-Genre in the early days. TOR however - as most of it contemporaries - just feels like going through the motions. It's safe, tame, linear, unispiring. Not exactly bad but dull.

I really don't care for changing your opinion you have all the right to dislike a game but SWTOR is not completely safe or tame, neither it is linear. As far as uninispiring? well that is matter of prespective.

Not linear - SW:ToR? Next you'll be telling us it is not a themepark - right?

Themepark it may be, but linear isn't quite so.

There are numerous dialog choices that actually alter the experience in dramatic ways, from either distinctive bosses or alternate outcomes. That, and you actually get a selection of planets to choose from to level in, aside from merely being forced onto some predetermined area for your level. So, I wouldn't say it's UBER-DUPER linear, not at all! There's some choice.

Clubmaster22 · November 2011

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

In what specific ways would you like to see MMOs change to hold closer to your ideal? Specifically in relation to TOR?

I don't have a specific ideal and i don't think i'm very demanding. I just want a sense of danger, a sense of wonder. I want to be awestruck by an enviroment, a cool Item i found, a Character- or monsterdesign. I wanted Bioware to implement their incredible skill in telling stories and staging dialogues (there really isn't much competition anymore when it comes to storytelling, Bioware is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition when it comes to RPGs) into an MMO.

What i certainly didn't want was them to just slap extensive cutscenes on a WoW-Clone.

BadSpock · November 2011

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. There is still a problem comparing these games though. I know Skyrim is an epic game, but do you really think it is possible to have that whole feature set in a current MMO?

I could see it in the future (barring alot of single player issues that do not transfer to MMOs very well). A prime example of this for a persistent world would be the perma-death of an NPC who is part of the game. Only the people interacting up to the NPCs death would enjoy the content. This is not a problem for single player but in an MMO, it is a huge problem.

This is just some of the reason why you cannot fairly compare something like Skyrim to an MMO.

If you somehow dropped a thousand people together into the world of Skyrim shit would be so f'd up in the first few hours the game would be unplayble.

BadSpock · November 2011

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

I don't have a specific ideal and i don't think i'm very demanding. I just want a sense of danger, a sense of wonder. I want to be awestruck by an enviroment, a cool Item i found, a Character- or monsterdesign. I wanted Bioware to implement their incredible skill in telling stories and staging dialogues (there really isn't much competition anymore when it comes to storytelling, Bioware is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition when it comes to RPGs) into an MMO.

What i certainly didn't want was them to just slap extensive cutscenes on a WoW-Clone.

Then we sir are at an empass, for I truly believe that Bioware has fully and completely accomplished those goals in TOR.

Environments, items, characters, monsters, dialogue... that sense of wonder and danger... different perspectives on the same topic I believe.

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