to be honest i am pretty much fine with 2 stats.stats are a by product not the game.
take eq2 it been using for a year 2 stats same as swtor.1 for health one for archtype.
it makes life much easier espically when it comes to loot.before as a bard i had to go into long debate why my bard needs int item,then needs agility,then needs wisdom then...you get the gist.
Originally posted by ethion Originally posted by Warjin
Originally posted by ethion
There are a lot of good things about SWTOR but one of the things that I think is really dumb is they effectively removed stats from the game... So now you basically just want equipment with the best upgrades or the best equipment. Other then making sure it if for your archtype the stats are meaningless.. For each archtype there are only two stats that matter. You endurance which gives you hitpoints and your archtype stat which gives you a boatload of upgrades. There are other stats but they pretty much are meant for other archtypes and give you only a couple of enhancements that are redundant to your primary stat. So as a jedi warrior you just want str/end. Most items designed for your class will have str/end. Sometimes the ratio is a bit different but basically the higher the quality or level the more stats... I personally think this is a negative what do you guys think? Like it or think it over simplifies the whole quest for gear. Or is it similar to other games just made totally obvious?
Sw:tor seems to be taking this game in a different direction then WoW when it comes to progression, Sw:tor is a bit more simplified when It comes to stat progresstion but that not really a bad thing. The stat coefficients are different for every game meaning. Below is a copy and paste involving Sw:tor stats and how they effect your characters. * (S) Strength * (A) Agility * (E) Endurance * (C) Cunning * (W) Willpower * (P) Presence
Base Stats/Leveling
Level 1 S - 48 A - 10 E - 48 C - 10 W - 54 P - 48
Level 2 S - 52 A - 11 E - 52 C - 11 W - 58 P - 52
Level 3 S - 55 A - 12 E - 55 C - 12 W - 62 P - 55
Level 4 S - 59 A - 13 E - 59 C - 13 W - 66 P - 59
Here is what we can see. Starting stats appear as follows: Main stat: 54 Primary stats: 48 Secondary: 10
Each level, main and primary go up by 4, secondary goes up by 1. It is possible that their is a rotation we can see this by looking at the increase in primary stats. So they go up by 4, then they go up by 4, then they go up by 3, and rotate like that. Unfortunately everything after 4 level had too many factors, such as stat bonuses from gear and buffs, that I couldn't project it out further with the notes I had. With the simplicity of their design though I expect it was a mis-entry in coding and we will see it go +4/+1 respectively.
Also as far as base modifiers, it appears you start with the following: Bonus damage: 0 Accuracy: 90 (don't know what this affects) Crit %: 10% Dmg reduction: 0 Def chance: 10 (don't know what this affects) Glance: 0 Absorb: 0 (I assume both of these are affected by hardiness)
Then you take the stat modifiers and add them to the base. Lets get into stat modifiers then.
Stat Modifiers
You will need to do a little math beyond what I give you here, so I will show you exactly how it works.
Strength: - Affects bonus melee damage and bonus melee crit. Every 10 points = +1 bonus damage Every 40.1 points = +1% crit
Cunning: - Affects bonus tech damage and bonus tech crit. Formula the same as Strength
Willpower: - Affects bonus force damage and bonus force crit. Formula the same as Strength
Presence: - Affects bonus healing, extra companion health and extra companion damage. Every 5 points = +1 bonus healing Every 1 point = +2 bonus companion health Every 20 points = +1% companion damage
Armor: - Affects Kinetic and Energy damage reduction. Every 20.8 points = 1% reduction
ex: 79 Armor 79 / 20.8 = 3.8% reduction You really missed my point. They have stats which might be ok. But they introduced the concept of a class stat and made it a super stat that basically makes the other stats useless. So as a smuggler or agent the only stat you care about is cunning and endurance you get automatically with every item. For any class of item the ratio of between your primary stat and end is either static or there are two ratios one oriented on each adv class. As a result the stats are pretty much intrinsic in the quality of the item. Get a green item at lvl 20 and you got 9 cunning and 11 endurance. Get the same level item in blue and it will be 10 cunning and 12 endurance. There are no items that are 5 cunning and 19 end or any other ratio in that class. Occasionally you will find the ratio changed so you might see 11 cunning and 9 end they are the same just flipped. But realistically as a smuggler you would never use any other stat as they would be a negative. Presence as a stat I don't think I've ever seen in an item. The only exception are the bonuses on some items particularly at high levels. Defence, accuracy, crit, etc. These do give you some variation although perhaps when I play the high end game I'd find those really don't matter either or there isn't really any choice.
I've seen Presence on a couple of Trooper items.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Gunned813 That's funny because they had to oversimplify the stat and mod system due to dazed, confused and stupid WoWtype beta testers. And I see very little mention on the stats you start havng to focus on post-30 in here. I sense a troll and a bunch of people who din't pass level 15.
I freely admit I didn't pass level 15. I also freely admit I didn't pay much attention to my gear. I'm not even sure what the stats are you could get on your gear. Unless I miss my guess, it doesn't matter that much until you get into instances, heroic instances, raids, end game pvp, etc. Which is fine with me. There is plenty of time to figure out what gear to get and which stats to focus on.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Anyone really interested in this game check out the weekend beta test. You will see that the stats are basically meaningless. They have simplified equipment to class based, level, and quality. Nothing else really matters.
They're certainly not that important at lower levels....IE the ones that weekend testers will be experiencing.
So why should low level equipment matter. The biggest levels gear shoudl matter is the gear u craft and the gear u get in flashpoints and things. i dont kinow 2 stats at a low level is normal
I dont know how many times in wow my low level gear was stam agi, stam str, stam int, u get the pic. I havent played by level 11 but tor seems to work aot like that
Usually low levels are tutorial levels to allow players to get a feel for the stats they will need as there main stats and as u level u get newer stats like armore pen, crit etct.
I havent seen high level gear so n o idea what its like but id hope crafted gear means something at low levels so u have an economy thats worth using.
So why should low level equipment matter. The biggest levels gear shoudl matter is the gear u craft and the gear u get in flashpoints and things. i dont kinow 2 stats at a low level is normal
I dont know how many times in wow my low level gear was stam agi, stam str, stam int, u get the pic. I havent played by level 11 but tor seems to work aot like that
Usually low levels are tutorial levels to allow players to get a feel for the stats they will need as there main stats and as u level u get newer stats like armore pen, crit etct.
I havent seen high level gear so n o idea what its like but id hope crafted gear means something at low levels so u have an economy thats worth using.
I'm not level 50 but I've had several characters into the mid to upper 20s. I also have looked at stuff in the lvl 40+ server and stuff on the markets. So I'm not only talking about starting gear.
I'm telling you that you will not have any real options on stats. You will use gear with the same two stats from beginning to end using anything else will be a waste of a slot. In wow you can trade off stats depending on where you want to emphasis your dps, defense, crits etc. You might even have two sets of equipment with different stats for different situations.
You have to think a lot more about your equipment in wow then you will in SWTOR.
ive played wow for 6 yrs. Let me start with ive played most of the classes.
Truth is at mx level on a tanki pally my main stats are stam, str, sure they ahve others but since the removed defense from gear. I want parry and dodge. Those are the only stats i want.
As a rogue i want agi, and crit, haste matters a little and u have to cap hit. thats not that many stats.
as a healer im stacking int as much as i can and grab what spirit i can as well so i have regen. crit and haste and all are nice but in the end im gonna stack int first and foremost.
It's in beta and is superior to today's WoW in every way.
I'm no WoW fan in fact my favorite game was eq2. That said it isn't superior to wow in every way....
It has strong points for sure
1. Great quests that are far more immersive then any other game. Very much like a single player game. Some of the instances can even have different outcomes based on group choices lets a dark or light character to have a chance to make the same instance different the second time through.
2. Classes are unique compared to other mmos. Some nice variety from the elves and orcs.
3. Companions are really cool and can make things easier.
4. Crafting is easier to do and less boring then other games. You also don't flood the market since you need to rev engineer things to learn higher quality versions of recipes.
Negatives
1. The world is kinda static. There isn't any phasing, minigames or some of the clever technology that wow uses.
2. Equipment is simplified to the point that stats don't matter it's all about level and quality. Everything else just follows from that. Only two stats matter and all equipment has both in set ratios.
3. End game will be a let down and isn't nearly developed.
4. Combat system in wow is better. More polished and has better balanced, more options.
5. I think the wow skill trees are better with more interesting options.
ive played wow for 6 yrs. Let me start with ive played most of the classes.
Truth is at mx level on a tanki pally my main stats are stam, str, sure they ahve others but since the removed defense from gear. I want parry and dodge. Those are the only stats i want.
As a rogue i want agi, and crit, haste matters a little and u have to cap hit. thats not that many stats.
as a healer im stacking int as much as i can and grab what spirit i can as well so i have regen. crit and haste and all are nice but in the end im gonna stack int first and foremost.
So its not like wow is much more complicated.
I got no idea how you concluded that...
In this game you only have two stats that you can use. Period. All others will hurt your character not that any gear you find will have any other stats. Everything you find will have two stats. For medium you will either find cunning/end for sumglers or will/end for jedi sage. That't it. So unlike wow where you are making choices based on what you want for your character in this game there are no choices. Everything you find thats usable for your character that makes any sense will always have the same stats.
There are no choices in wow. are u kidding me. Have u played wow. U know how me and i bet 85 pct of wow players know what stats to take we look it up.
There is a reason gear stickies exist in wow.
The truth is once u lok up what u need its very easy and simple to figure out what u want and when.
I know on my rogue i need a pct of hit so im gonna take , my stam agi gear and look for hit fist till i hit hit cap, then i will look for haste and crit. depending on spec.
as assasin i need a higher hit rate then combat as my poisions miss at a greater rate then specials and as such posions are so improtant to my spec i need a high hit rating.
?so i have no choice on my stats in wow.
as healer i need int , and spirit, haste and crit. haste usually before crit
As tank i need stam, str and im gonna gem stam, I want parry and dodge and will take what i can get of them,
There is no choice of stats in wow where did u get that idea.
Talking about "pure" stats like str, stam, int etc ... WoW is in the same boat. It's always, str/stam, agi/stam, int/stam or in the rare case of the healers, spi/int/stam. WoW still have some secondary stats, but in terms of pure stats it's the exact same thing if not even simpler.
Give TOR a couple of months and we will see secondary stats starting to appear one way or the other.
i agree with that . this is beta they were testing gear with very few stats. u cant take one beta test and say the stats are to simple or even a few.
things like itemization and balance are what happen last not first. they still have a month to change how stats work.
The trees are not more robust with more choice in wow are we taling the same game are u kidding me?
Im sorry ive played wow for 6 yrs and in that time ive never had one chocie i could make that mattered in a tree.
Ive always had to find out the min/max spec for raiding or pvp and go with it. I may have 3-4 chocies in wow now if that. if im lucky on any character i ahve.
Saying that wows talent trees are more complex is like saying a spinach leaf is more complex then an arugala salad.
really and people think tor lovers are the issue on this forum.
So why should low level equipment matter. The biggest levels gear shoudl matter is the gear u craft and the gear u get in flashpoints and things. i dont kinow 2 stats at a low level is normal
I dont know how many times in wow my low level gear was stam agi, stam str, stam int, u get the pic. I havent played by level 11 but tor seems to work aot like that
Usually low levels are tutorial levels to allow players to get a feel for the stats they will need as there main stats and as u level u get newer stats like armore pen, crit etct.
I havent seen high level gear so n o idea what its like but id hope crafted gear means something at low levels so u have an economy thats worth using.
I'm not level 50 but I've had several characters into the mid to upper 20s. I also have looked at stuff in the lvl 40+ server and stuff on the markets. So I'm not only talking about starting gear.
I'm telling you that you will not have any real options on stats. You will use gear with the same two stats from beginning to end using anything else will be a waste of a slot. In wow you can trade off stats depending on where you want to emphasis your dps, defense, crits etc. You might even have two sets of equipment with different stats for different situations.
You have to think a lot more about your equipment in wow then you will in SWTOR.
You are not talking about the current WoW then. That sounds more like the vanilla WoW or the Burning Crusade WoW. The current WoW virtually has no hardcore min/maxing left.
If you have said swtor is even more simple than LoTRO it might have made sense.
Wow still has best spec adn stuff like that and wht the best talents to take are. They are more streamlined now then before but min/max still exists at leasts till mop comes out.
I just dont understand how anyone can say u have choices on your stats in wow though cause u dont sure there may be more then they saw in tors beta but u dont have a choice in what stats to take.
Comments
to be honest i am pretty much fine with 2 stats.stats are a by product not the game.
take eq2 it been using for a year 2 stats same as swtor.1 for health one for archtype.
it makes life much easier espically when it comes to loot.before as a bard i had to go into long debate why my bard needs int item,then needs agility,then needs wisdom then...you get the gist.
Misleading thread title is misleading.
And no, the game is not simpler than WoW lol.
Below is a copy and paste involving Sw:tor stats and how they effect your characters.
* (S) Strength
* (A) Agility
* (E) Endurance
* (C) Cunning
* (W) Willpower
* (P) Presence
Base Stats/Leveling
Level 1
S - 48
A - 10
E - 48
C - 10
W - 54
P - 48
Level 2
S - 52
A - 11
E - 52
C - 11
W - 58
P - 52
Level 3
S - 55
A - 12
E - 55
C - 12
W - 62
P - 55
Level 4
S - 59
A - 13
E - 59
C - 13
W - 66
P - 59
Here is what we can see. Starting stats appear as follows:
Main stat: 54
Primary stats: 48
Secondary: 10
Each level, main and primary go up by 4, secondary goes up by 1. It is possible that their is a rotation we can see this by looking at the increase in primary stats. So they go up by 4, then they go up by 4, then they go up by 3, and rotate like that. Unfortunately everything after 4 level had too many factors, such as stat bonuses from gear and buffs, that I couldn't project it out further with the notes I had. With the simplicity of their design though I expect it was a mis-entry in coding and we will see it go +4/+1 respectively.
Also as far as base modifiers, it appears you start with the following:
Bonus damage: 0
Accuracy: 90 (don't know what this affects)
Crit %: 10%
Dmg reduction: 0
Def chance: 10 (don't know what this affects)
Glance: 0
Absorb: 0 (I assume both of these are affected by hardiness)
Then you take the stat modifiers and add them to the base. Lets get into stat modifiers then.
Stat Modifiers
You will need to do a little math beyond what I give you here, so I will show you exactly how it works.
Strength: - Affects bonus melee damage and bonus melee crit.
Every 10 points = +1 bonus damage
Every 40.1 points = +1% crit
ex: 77 Strength
77 / 10 = 7.7 bonus damage
77 / 40.1 = 1.92% bonus crit
Agility: - Affects bonus ranged damage and bonus ranged crit.
Formula the same as Strength
Endurance: - Affects bonus health and health regeneration.
Every 1 point = 10 health
Every 5 points = 1% regen
ex: 83 Endurance
83*10 = 830 bonus health
83 / 5 = 16.6% regen
Cunning: - Affects bonus tech damage and bonus tech crit.
Formula the same as Strength
Willpower: - Affects bonus force damage and bonus force crit.
Formula the same as Strength
Presence: - Affects bonus healing, extra companion health and extra companion damage.
Every 5 points = +1 bonus healing
Every 1 point = +2 bonus companion health
Every 20 points = +1% companion damage
ex: 75 Presence
75 / 5 = +15 bonus healing
75 * 2 = +150 companion health
75 / 20 = +3.75% companion damage
Armor: - Affects Kinetic and Energy damage reduction.
Every 20.8 points = 1% reduction
ex: 79 Armor
79 / 20.8 = 3.8% reduction
You really missed my point. They have stats which might be ok. But they introduced the concept of a class stat and made it a super stat that basically makes the other stats useless. So as a smuggler or agent the only stat you care about is cunning and endurance you get automatically with every item. For any class of item the ratio of between your primary stat and end is either static or there are two ratios one oriented on each adv class.
As a result the stats are pretty much intrinsic in the quality of the item. Get a green item at lvl 20 and you got 9 cunning and 11 endurance. Get the same level item in blue and it will be 10 cunning and 12 endurance. There are no items that are 5 cunning and 19 end or any other ratio in that class. Occasionally you will find the ratio changed so you might see 11 cunning and 9 end they are the same just flipped.
But realistically as a smuggler you would never use any other stat as they would be a negative. Presence as a stat I don't think I've ever seen in an item.
The only exception are the bonuses on some items particularly at high levels. Defence, accuracy, crit, etc. These do give you some variation although perhaps when I play the high end game I'd find those really don't matter either or there isn't really any choice.
I've seen Presence on a couple of Trooper items.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That's funny because they had to oversimplify the stat and mod system due to dazed, confused and stupid WoWtype beta testers.
And I see very little mention on the stats you start havng to focus on post-30 in here. I sense a troll and a bunch of people who din't pass level 15.
I freely admit I didn't pass level 15. I also freely admit I didn't pay much attention to my gear. I'm not even sure what the stats are you could get on your gear. Unless I miss my guess, it doesn't matter that much until you get into instances, heroic instances, raids, end game pvp, etc. Which is fine with me. There is plenty of time to figure out what gear to get and which stats to focus on.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
They're certainly not that important at lower levels....IE the ones that weekend testers will be experiencing.
Which WoW are you talking about here? the Vanilla WoW, or the current WoW, or the pandaren WoW?
The statement is definitely false if you are talking about current WoW or the changes proposed by the Pandaren WoW
I think besides Lego Online, not other subscription mmos is as simple is as what WoW is becoming.
So why should low level equipment matter. The biggest levels gear shoudl matter is the gear u craft and the gear u get in flashpoints and things. i dont kinow 2 stats at a low level is normal
I dont know how many times in wow my low level gear was stam agi, stam str, stam int, u get the pic. I havent played by level 11 but tor seems to work aot like that
Usually low levels are tutorial levels to allow players to get a feel for the stats they will need as there main stats and as u level u get newer stats like armore pen, crit etct.
I havent seen high level gear so n o idea what its like but id hope crafted gear means something at low levels so u have an economy thats worth using.
I'm not level 50 but I've had several characters into the mid to upper 20s. I also have looked at stuff in the lvl 40+ server and stuff on the markets. So I'm not only talking about starting gear.
I'm telling you that you will not have any real options on stats. You will use gear with the same two stats from beginning to end using anything else will be a waste of a slot. In wow you can trade off stats depending on where you want to emphasis your dps, defense, crits etc. You might even have two sets of equipment with different stats for different situations.
You have to think a lot more about your equipment in wow then you will in SWTOR.
---
Ethion
ive played wow for 6 yrs. Let me start with ive played most of the classes.
Truth is at mx level on a tanki pally my main stats are stam, str, sure they ahve others but since the removed defense from gear. I want parry and dodge. Those are the only stats i want.
As a rogue i want agi, and crit, haste matters a little and u have to cap hit. thats not that many stats.
as a healer im stacking int as much as i can and grab what spirit i can as well so i have regen. crit and haste and all are nice but in the end im gonna stack int first and foremost.
So its not like wow is much more complicated.
I'm no WoW fan in fact my favorite game was eq2. That said it isn't superior to wow in every way....
It has strong points for sure
1. Great quests that are far more immersive then any other game. Very much like a single player game. Some of the instances can even have different outcomes based on group choices
lets a dark or light character to have a chance to make the same instance different the second time through.
2. Classes are unique compared to other mmos. Some nice variety from the elves and orcs.
3. Companions are really cool and can make things easier.
4. Crafting is easier to do and less boring then other games. You also don't flood the market since you need to rev engineer things to learn higher quality versions of recipes.
Negatives
1. The world is kinda static. There isn't any phasing, minigames or some of the clever technology that wow uses.
2. Equipment is simplified to the point that stats don't matter it's all about level and quality. Everything else just follows from that. Only two stats matter and all equipment has both in set ratios.
3. End game will be a let down and isn't nearly developed.
4. Combat system in wow is better. More polished and has better balanced, more options.
5. I think the wow skill trees are better with more interesting options.
---
Ethion
I got no idea how you concluded that...
In this game you only have two stats that you can use. Period. All others will hurt your character not that any gear you find will have any other stats. Everything you find will have two stats. For medium you will either find cunning/end for sumglers or will/end for jedi sage. That't it. So unlike wow where you are making choices based on what you want for your character in this game there are no choices. Everything you find thats usable for your character that makes any sense will always have the same stats.
---
Ethion
There are no choices in wow. are u kidding me. Have u played wow. U know how me and i bet 85 pct of wow players know what stats to take we look it up.
There is a reason gear stickies exist in wow.
The truth is once u lok up what u need its very easy and simple to figure out what u want and when.
I know on my rogue i need a pct of hit so im gonna take , my stam agi gear and look for hit fist till i hit hit cap, then i will look for haste and crit. depending on spec.
as assasin i need a higher hit rate then combat as my poisions miss at a greater rate then specials and as such posions are so improtant to my spec i need a high hit rating.
?so i have no choice on my stats in wow.
as healer i need int , and spirit, haste and crit. haste usually before crit
As tank i need stam, str and im gonna gem stam, I want parry and dodge and will take what i can get of them,
There is no choice of stats in wow where did u get that idea.
SWToR is even simpler, then there is WoW? I don't understand the question!
Simpler then WoW ???
Talking about "pure" stats like str, stam, int etc ... WoW is in the same boat. It's always, str/stam, agi/stam, int/stam or in the rare case of the healers, spi/int/stam. WoW still have some secondary stats, but in terms of pure stats it's the exact same thing if not even simpler.
Give TOR a couple of months and we will see secondary stats starting to appear one way or the other.
Someone around here seems to be forgetting about things like Presence, Alacrity, Tech power, Force Power, etc.
This is nowhere near as simple as it is being made out to be.
But hey....in a month's time, everyone will know that
i agree with that . this is beta they were testing gear with very few stats. u cant take one beta test and say the stats are to simple or even a few.
things like itemization and balance are what happen last not first. they still have a month to change how stats work.
The trees are not more robust with more choice in wow are we taling the same game are u kidding me?
Im sorry ive played wow for 6 yrs and in that time ive never had one chocie i could make that mattered in a tree.
Ive always had to find out the min/max spec for raiding or pvp and go with it. I may have 3-4 chocies in wow now if that. if im lucky on any character i ahve.
Saying that wows talent trees are more complex is like saying a spinach leaf is more complex then an arugala salad.
really and people think tor lovers are the issue on this forum.
You are not talking about the current WoW then. That sounds more like the vanilla WoW or the Burning Crusade WoW. The current WoW virtually has no hardcore min/maxing left.
If you have said swtor is even more simple than LoTRO it might have made sense.
Wow still has best spec adn stuff like that and wht the best talents to take are. They are more streamlined now then before but min/max still exists at leasts till mop comes out.
I just dont understand how anyone can say u have choices on your stats in wow though cause u dont sure there may be more then they saw in tors beta but u dont have a choice in what stats to take.