You will note on the most recent one that labor cost was over FIFTY PERCENT of their total expenses. Also, this statement INCLUDES everything NCSoft does like running their games, marketing, paying royalties etc. etc. And IMO, developing software is much more labor intensive than running a game, which is more equipment intensive. And paying royalties requires hardly any labor at all.
Well, can't argue with that. I work in a much different industry than games, but that's beside the point. What I wrote in the last post still stands. Even 5 people working on a project are not going to make much progress in something as large as a crappy, limited, and short video game. Yeah, you get the people who make indie games who can do alot with 5 people, but they are indy because they are doing it for fun and are able to put in alot more time and care alot more about their project.
You will note on the most recent one that labor cost was over FIFTY PERCENT of their total expenses. Also, this statement INCLUDES everything NCSoft does like running their games, marketing, paying royalties etc. etc. And IMO, developing software is much more labor intensive than running a game, which is more equipment intensive. And paying royalties requires hardly any labor at all.
Well, can't argue with that. I work in a much different industry than games, but that's beside the point. What I wrote in the last post still stands. Even 5 people working on a project are not going to make much progress in something as large as a crappy, limited, and short video game. Yeah, you get the people who make indie games who can do alot with 5 people, but they are indy because they are doing it for fun and are able to put in alot more time and care alot more about their project.
I agree . Modern game development is a huge, very costly endeavor. There's so much involved...it actually more resembles the development of a big budget movie than old school game development in the 80's.
Even games that are free have items that can be bought so being free isn't always the end.
They may have a flow of players now but in this case conversion to cash is lower because most of such players play there because it is free and are not willing to pay for anything. In particular this is true for people from the developing countries.
Tell that to DDO and LoTRO, who saw 500% Increase in Profits since they went F2P.
I think you're mistaken at how many people are actually willing and do spend money in F2P. I know I've spent my fair share in the past. Most recently, in the past year I've probably spent $200 in League of Legends.
And this is why I hate F2P.
With F2P, you get to spend what you want to spend. And if you want to "buy" the ENTIRE game, you're going to be spending way more than you would have if it was B2P.
Not true Bro . I enjoy playing DDO on the weekends we even have a P n P game we play inside the DDO client using the ingame dice,
The F2P has been open on DDO what almost 2 years now? i bought 100 bucks worth of cash shop soon after the F2P release , with that i was able to own every expansion pack and had a bit left over , ive not put in 1 red cent past that point. tho with the ever growing expansions i will need to buy more cash shop . Im just waiting for the next bonus pack sale.
To me 50 bucks a year is not only cheaper to do than sub but more convenant ,
I do get your point tho , Some players dont have the smarts to spend wizely . with a drop of good smarts you can have all the benifits of vip sub in DDO atleast for around 5 bucks a month if you buy it all at once.
Even games that are free have items that can be bought so being free isn't always the end.
They may have a flow of players now but in this case conversion to cash is lower because most of such players play there because it is free and are not willing to pay for anything. In particular this is true for people from the developing countries.
Tell that to DDO and LoTRO, who saw 500% Increase in Profits since they went F2P.
I think you're mistaken at how many people are actually willing and do spend money in F2P. I know I've spent my fair share in the past. Most recently, in the past year I've probably spent $200 in League of Legends.
And this is why I hate F2P.
With F2P, you get to spend what you want to spend. And if you want to "buy" the ENTIRE game, you're going to be spending way more than you would have if it was B2P.
Not true Bro . I enjoy playing DDO on the weekends we even have a P n P game we play inside the DDO client using the ingame dice,
The F2P has been open on DDO what almost 2 years now? i bought 100 bucks worth of cash shop soon after the F2P release , with that i was able to own every expansion pack and had a bit left over , ive not put in 1 red cent past that point. tho with the ever growing expansions i will need to buy more cash shop . Im just waiting for the next bonus pack sale.
To me 50 bucks a year is not only cheaper to do than sub but more convenant ,
I do get your point tho , Some players dont have the smarts to spend wizely . with a drop of good smarts you can have all the benifits of vip sub in DDO atleast for around 5 bucks a month if you buy it all at once.
I think it also depends on your playing habits. I tend to only stay subbed to MMORPGs for like 2-3 months before unsubbing. So that's only $30 in sub fees for my entire time playing the MMORPG. And in that time, I get to experience the complete MMORPG without spending anything else.
So from my point of view, F2P is more costly if I want to unlock everything, when I only plan on playing for 2 months anyway.
I think it also depends on your playing habits. I tend to only stay subbed to MMORPGs for like 2-3 months before unsubbing. So that's only $30 in sub fees for my entire time playing the MMORPG. And in that time, I get to experience the complete MMORPG without spending anything else.
So from my point of view, F2P is more costly if I want to unlock everything, when I only plan on playing for 2 months anyway.
Ok I can see where you comeing from then , the two of us have playing habits on oppisite sides of the field . If i find a game i like i tend to stick around for years. thee had been times before DDO went F2P that i paid my sub for months in a row and never once logged into the game . So the F2P buy a chunk of the game at a time and never resub mold fit great for me , its there when i want it and still there when i dont.
Even games that are free have items that can be bought so being free isn't always the end.
They may have a flow of players now but in this case conversion to cash is lower because most of such players play there because it is free and are not willing to pay for anything. In particular this is true for people from the developing countries.
Tell that to DDO and LoTRO, who saw 500% Increase in Profits since they went F2P.
I think you're mistaken at how many people are actually willing and do spend money in F2P. I know I've spent my fair share in the past. Most recently, in the past year I've probably spent $200 in League of Legends.
And this is why I hate F2P.
With F2P, you get to spend what you want to spend. And if you want to "buy" the ENTIRE game, you're going to be spending way more than you would have if it was B2P.
Not true Bro . I enjoy playing DDO on the weekends we even have a P n P game we play inside the DDO client using the ingame dice,
The F2P has been open on DDO what almost 2 years now? i bought 100 bucks worth of cash shop soon after the F2P release , with that i was able to own every expansion pack and had a bit left over , ive not put in 1 red cent past that point. tho with the ever growing expansions i will need to buy more cash shop . Im just waiting for the next bonus pack sale.
To me 50 bucks a year is not only cheaper to do than sub but more convenant ,
I do get your point tho , Some players dont have the smarts to spend wizely . with a drop of good smarts you can have all the benifits of vip sub in DDO atleast for around 5 bucks a month if you buy it all at once.
I think it also depends on your playing habits. I tend to only stay subbed to MMORPGs for like 2-3 months before unsubbing. So that's only $30 in sub fees for my entire time playing the MMORPG. And in that time, I get to experience the complete MMORPG without spending anything else.
So from my point of view, F2P is more costly if I want to unlock everything, when I only plan on playing for 2 months anyway.
Put in there the price of the game also and $30 is enough only for 2 months of sub fees on most games. Much more than what I'd spend in a f2p game in a merely 2 months.
I don't really consider former P2P's switched over to F2P though, they should have their own term to use. They are usually a lot more restrictive than the games created for F2P right from the start, especially content-wise. Pure F2P content = amped difficulty for a free player (pressure to use CS), switched to F2P = locked pay to access content.
I think it also depends on your playing habits. I tend to only stay subbed to MMORPGs for like 2-3 months before unsubbing. So that's only $30 in sub fees for my entire time playing the MMORPG. And in that time, I get to experience the complete MMORPG without spending anything else.
So from my point of view, F2P is more costly if I want to unlock everything, when I only plan on playing for 2 months anyway.
Ok I can see where you comeing from then , the two of us have playing habits on oppisite sides of the field . If i find a game i like i tend to stick around for years. thee had been times before DDO went F2P that i paid my sub for months in a row and never once logged into the game . So the F2P buy a chunk of the game at a time and never resub mold fit great for me , its there when i want it and still there when i dont.
yeah I can appreciate wanting to play the game whenever you feel like it without subbing. That's why my favorite model is the GW B2P + (very limited) cash shop model.
You buy the game, get tons of content (value) for the price of the box, and the company can make some more revenue off of fluff things sold in the CS like costumes.
I kind of take issue with the discussion on MMOs that have gone F2P... when the majority of the games have not gone F2P, but rather they have added F2P options - they're Freemium games - hybrid models.
Look at the list of games - how many still have subscription options? How many of them have tiered subscription options? How many of them have tiered Premium options depending on how much you spend?
And how much of the game can you actually "play" as completely free compared to those various levels of Premium and Subscription?
Generally speaking, games that have gone Freemium/Hybrid should not be compared to F2P or P2P games - as if they were F2P or P2P games. They can definitely be compared, comparing actualy F2P games to the Hybrids or the P2P games to the Hybrids.
A Freemium F2P/B2P/P2P hybrid model is not the same as the base F2P model....because face it, you've got the B2P and P2P elements there.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Anyone have you got a link to the 500% increase in profit mentioned above? Serious question.
I listened to the LotR podcast last January but it talked about REVENUE being up 300%, it said nothing about Profit - although some commentators / websites mistook Revenue for Profit - or simply forgot that companies have to pay wages and so forth.
Just to be clear: Revenue is not Profit and the source has to be from the company not a writer who has mixed the two up.
With Lego announcing the closure of their F2P yesterday Profit is key.
Also anything official on current player numbers?
There were DDO announcements just after launch and LotR announcements in January this year. Getting people to sign up when there is lots of publicity is one thing but 6 months later, 12 months later, with no advertising and what seems like a new F2P coming out every week to tempt people away.
Anyone have you got a link to the 500% increase in profit mentioned above? Serious question.
I listened to the LotR podcast last January but it talked about REVENUE being up 300%, it said nothing about Profit - although some commentators / websites mistook Revenue for Profit - or simply forgot that companies have to pay wages and so forth.
Just to be clear: Revenue is not Profit and the source has to be from the company not a writer who has mixed the two up.
With Lego announcing the closure of their F2P yesterday Profit is key.
Also anything official on current player numbers?
There were DDO announcements just after launch and LotR announcements in January this year. Getting people to sign up when there is lots of publicity is one thing but 6 months later, 12 months later, with no advertising and what seems like a new F2P coming out every week to tempt people away.
Im sure he meant 500% increase at the peak of the switch over to F2P , If i recall right DDO peaked near 700% prof in the first 3 months of F2P . there most like never going to see figures like that again . but the increased profits from F2P have made it possible to add content every 3-6 month so they can gain player base tho slowly and hold on to those already ingame.
Face Of Mankind was once P2P http://www.faceofmankind.com/ and it's picking up speed now as I heard . I don't play it anymore but it's one of the best role play MMos that I tried
Comments
You should probably divide $375,000 by 5.
Well, can't argue with that. I work in a much different industry than games, but that's beside the point. What I wrote in the last post still stands. Even 5 people working on a project are not going to make much progress in something as large as a crappy, limited, and short video game. Yeah, you get the people who make indie games who can do alot with 5 people, but they are indy because they are doing it for fun and are able to put in alot more time and care alot more about their project.
I agree
. Modern game development is a huge, very costly endeavor. There's so much involved...it actually more resembles the development of a big budget movie than old school game development in the 80's.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Not true Bro . I enjoy playing DDO on the weekends we even have a P n P game we play inside the DDO client using the ingame dice,
The F2P has been open on DDO what almost 2 years now? i bought 100 bucks worth of cash shop soon after the F2P release , with that i was able to own every expansion pack and had a bit left over , ive not put in 1 red cent past that point. tho with the ever growing expansions i will need to buy more cash shop . Im just waiting for the next bonus pack sale.
To me 50 bucks a year is not only cheaper to do than sub but more convenant ,
I do get your point tho , Some players dont have the smarts to spend wizely . with a drop of good smarts you can have all the benifits of vip sub in DDO atleast for around 5 bucks a month if you buy it all at once.
I think it also depends on your playing habits. I tend to only stay subbed to MMORPGs for like 2-3 months before unsubbing. So that's only $30 in sub fees for my entire time playing the MMORPG. And in that time, I get to experience the complete MMORPG without spending anything else.
So from my point of view, F2P is more costly if I want to unlock everything, when I only plan on playing for 2 months anyway.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Ok I can see where you comeing from then , the two of us have playing habits on oppisite sides of the field . If i find a game i like i tend to stick around for years. thee had been times before DDO went F2P that i paid my sub for months in a row and never once logged into the game . So the F2P buy a chunk of the game at a time and never resub mold fit great for me , its there when i want it and still there when i dont.
Put in there the price of the game also and $30 is enough only for 2 months of sub fees on most games. Much more than what I'd spend in a f2p game in a merely 2 months.
APB (if it hasn't been mentioned already).
I don't really consider former P2P's switched over to F2P though, they should have their own term to use. They are usually a lot more restrictive than the games created for F2P right from the start, especially content-wise. Pure F2P content = amped difficulty for a free player (pressure to use CS), switched to F2P = locked pay to access content.
yeah I can appreciate wanting to play the game whenever you feel like it without subbing. That's why my favorite model is the GW B2P + (very limited) cash shop model.
You buy the game, get tons of content (value) for the price of the box, and the company can make some more revenue off of fluff things sold in the CS like costumes.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Anarchy Online
Sims Online (went f2p as EA-land, now closed)
Shadowbane (went f2p in 2006, now closed)
I'm not sure but I believe RF Online started as p2p then went f2p
EQ2 fan sites
I kind of take issue with the discussion on MMOs that have gone F2P... when the majority of the games have not gone F2P, but rather they have added F2P options - they're Freemium games - hybrid models.
Look at the list of games - how many still have subscription options? How many of them have tiered subscription options? How many of them have tiered Premium options depending on how much you spend?
And how much of the game can you actually "play" as completely free compared to those various levels of Premium and Subscription?
Generally speaking, games that have gone Freemium/Hybrid should not be compared to F2P or P2P games - as if they were F2P or P2P games. They can definitely be compared, comparing actualy F2P games to the Hybrids or the P2P games to the Hybrids.
A Freemium F2P/B2P/P2P hybrid model is not the same as the base F2P model....because face it, you've got the B2P and P2P elements there.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Anyone have you got a link to the 500% increase in profit mentioned above? Serious question.
I listened to the LotR podcast last January but it talked about REVENUE being up 300%, it said nothing about Profit - although some commentators / websites mistook Revenue for Profit - or simply forgot that companies have to pay wages and so forth.
Just to be clear: Revenue is not Profit and the source has to be from the company not a writer who has mixed the two up.
With Lego announcing the closure of their F2P yesterday Profit is key.
Also anything official on current player numbers?
There were DDO announcements just after launch and LotR announcements in January this year. Getting people to sign up when there is lots of publicity is one thing but 6 months later, 12 months later, with no advertising and what seems like a new F2P coming out every week to tempt people away.
Im sure he meant 500% increase at the peak of the switch over to F2P , If i recall right DDO peaked near 700% prof in the first 3 months of F2P . there most like never going to see figures like that again . but the increased profits from F2P have made it possible to add content every 3-6 month so they can gain player base tho slowly and hold on to those already ingame.
Thanks guys, this list is getting bigger than I thought it would. Keep em coming.
Face Of Mankind was once P2P http://www.faceofmankind.com/ and it's picking up speed now as I heard . I don't play it anymore but it's one of the best role play MMos that I tried