I really agree with you. I miss the days when the major MMOs were very social/group centric almost to the exclusion of soloing. Unfortunately solo and instant gratification is where the money is nowadays so companies will invariably go that way.
I had similar experiences as the OP. The cut scenes cause particular issues in situations such as joining a group late, or replacing someone who leaves a group, which is very common as we all know. I had situations where I was kicked from groups too, because they tried to communicate with me while I was in the middle of a cut scene. It does cause some awkward situations and misunderstandings.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Excuse me? That's quite arrogant. But it may well be right, considering the communities most MMOs have nowadays.
Arrogance is only arrogance when it's wrong. When it's right, it's brilliance. I know that I'm arrogant, but unless I'm also wrong, it's not a bad thing.
When me and my friends were playing TOR, the story content did not support the fact that we wanted to play together; is that better wording? That's probally our problem, but the point of this topic is based on how MMOs have changed and that they've lost their appeal in the multiplayer aspect.
This particular MMO encourages cooperation and multiplayer the least I've probally seen in an MMO. According to you, that's what everyone wants, so perhaps the genre is not for me anymore?
With that I agree: story content does NOT support group gameplay together. It certainly discourages grouping in personal story. And that's how I actually like it. I'll probably enjoy grouping in flashpoints and hero content, but majority of the game I want - and will - go through solo.
If you can't stand it, then at least this game is indeed not for you. But if you'll just play it without thinking how it should be played, and instead enjoyed it how it is, you could get your money's worth.
This particular MMO encourages cooperation and multiplayer the least I've probally seen in an MMO. According to you, that's what everyone wants, so perhaps the genre is not for me anymore?
No, what has really happened is that these games have changed, and they are no longer MMORPGs anymore. They are MMOGs where the only things experienced via the online aspect are limited grouping, the chat window, and seeing other people run around in the world. The other players either don't matter, or they only matter in small and temporary doses. This manifests as meaningless and empty grouping expereinces where you only group up to combine firepower. Afterwards people quit, often without as much as a thank you.
Think of the brilliance from a money making standpoint. Because of the very limited interaction, there isn't as much "game" to be developed, managed and balanced. They simply make a big Co-Op like game with a fairly shallow experience and people still pay a monthly fee. In reality, games like this are a few tweaks away from being singple player PC games that don't even need to be connected to the internet.
I miss it. When I jumped into Xsyon, as incomplete and broken as that game is, I at least had an immediate sense of the need to be involved in a guild, and to make friends, for the survival of my character. THAT is an MMORPG in my opinion. What has happened with SWTOR, is they looked at WoW, and seemingly asked "how can we make this even simpler?" Well they succeeded because it feels simpler in every conceiveble way, IMO.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Broadly in he dev community people are trying to make games -more- social instead of less.
By linking it to facebook and twitter? By adding social platforms to talk when you are _not_ playing? Care to point on, say, SWTOR or GW2 where they tried to make games -more- social?
I miss it. When I jumped into Xsyon, as incomplete and broken as that game is, I at least had an immediate sense of the need to be involved in a guild, and to make friends, for the survival of my character. THAT is an MMORPG in my opinion. What has happened with SWTOR, is they looked at WoW, and seemingly asked "how can we make this even simpler?" Wellm they succeeded because it feels simpler in every conceiveble way, IMO.
But if they made the game like Xsyon, they wouldn't have me in it, so they probably made a choice: what demographics are potentially more profitable? Xsyon lost, non-social gaming won.
Care to point on, say, SWTOR or GW2 where they tried to make games -more- social?
No i don't care to because the whole point of the OP was that TOR is less social, with which i agree. Why you bring in GW2 like it would be holy water on a vampire is beyond me also, because I do not give two fucks about GW2 (protip: not everyone criticizing TOR is automatically a GW2 fan).
TOR being in development since 2007 its understandable why they did not do it though, the social gaming trend only came up recently, and they do try to copy an old formula. The puzzle-pieces fit so well if you think about it.
With that I agree: story content does NOT support group gameplay together. It certainly discourages grouping in personal story. And that's how I actually like it.
Yet, that just brings me back to my original question; why is this an MMO (since questing likely takes up ~75% on time spent playing)?
TBH, this game is perfect for those who want a single player experience for the majority of playing, with some multiplayer on the side. However, I'm not sure if it will recieve mainstream appeal as a result (not that it's needed, as it would make for a better community perhaps).
This is typically the kind of game I could enjoy playing without interuption of others. But due to it's genre, I expected the opposite. It's not a bad game, I just don't think it's suited to it's genre (at least in the elements we've been discussing).
I think the massive difference here is that a game of sport is cooperative and is entirely based on playing or 'doing sh**' to put it bluntly.
Watching cutscenes is like reading a book. You don't have much input and you are merely observing or watching. It's a stretch to call it gameplay.
It's just incredibly jarring when at one minute you're actively playing together; defeating mobs, exploring etc... then the next minute you're stuck watching a cutscene together which had near-no resemblance to what you were doing before.
MMOs should be constant social interaction. They should encourage that as much as possible. If you wanted to have a 'break' from that then stop playing. You could easily go play a single player BW game and get the same thing.
I also play games based on my mood. I don't recall ever feeling the need to play an MMO for five minutes, then go play a BW game for five minutes and then go back to playing an MMO. They are complete opposites of eachother and I don't really see how they mix, especially with other people.
Not sure what to tell you. There are people who hate Bioware games because they specifically have to stop for the cut scenes. And those aren't multi player games.
I imagine that the demographic for this game might not really care about the stopping. I know I dont'.
Still, there are "mmo" features and one doesn't have to do the main story lines. It might be important to note that if the game is successful then this is just the beginning and they could feasibly add more content such as territory control for pvp or just plain ol' dungeon crawls.
Still, if one isn't into the main thrust of the game and can't pull themselves to find their own way then I can see the experience being flat. I haven't seen enough of the game to make any determination one way or another as to how robust the regular mmo parts are.
Probably because my game keeps "yo-yo'ing" in lag and it's sort of unplayable at the moment.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My opinion is no less valid than yours and there are more people like me than people like you.
[citation needed]
Enter any mmorpg? Look around? Check how many people are NOT socializing and don't want to? How many prefer soloing rather than be bothered with a hussle of searching for a group?
Fallacy. The issue has more to do with the fact that the game is not designed to make grouping and socializing fun and important. People don't socialize or group much in these newer games because there is really no benefit to it. In past games where player interaction was an important key, people loved it. Developing long-term relationships with players in different professions and classes in these games was a big deal if you wanted your character to thrive, and there was nothing boring or laborious about it. It was a blast.
A lot of people around here assume no one would enjoy a sandbox-type game. Well, I did. I came from hardcore FPS clan match gaming to a sandbox games, and simply loved it for three years. So did many other people. WoW opened up the genre to a lot more players because the game was very accessible and more importantly would run on any computer north of a calculator. The vast majorty of those players have no clue what a good sandbox feels like, and you can bet a large portion of them would love it if they were given a solid experience to try.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Broadly in he dev community people are trying to make games -more- social instead of less.
By linking it to facebook and twitter? By adding social platforms to talk when you are _not_ playing? Care to point on, say, SWTOR or GW2 where they tried to make games -more- social?
I do think GW2's dynamic events encourage cooperation, as well as not discouraging you for being social (on that regard, it's indifferent). The difference with TOR is that it actively discourages cooperation and being social due to it's story content (which GW2 does have as well, but it's not the core content, being optional as it were). The cutscenes in GW2 are also semi-done in real time too, especially in the open world.
At least that's my own interpretation, it could well work out differently.
My opinion is no less valid than yours and there are more people like me than people like you.
[citation needed]
Enter any mmorpg? Look around? Check how many people are NOT socializing and don't want to? How many prefer soloing rather than be bothered with a hussle of searching for a group?
Fallacy. The issue has more to do with the fact that the game is not designed to make grouping and socializing fun and important. People don't socialize or group much in these newer games because there is really no benefit to it. In past games where player interaction was an important key, people loved it. Developing long-term relationships with players in different professions and classes in these games was a big deal if you wanted your character to thrive, and there was nothing boring or laborious about it. It was a blast.
A lot of people around here assume no one would enjoy a sandbox-type game. Well, I did. I came from hardcore FPS clan match gaming to a sandbox games, and simply loved it for three years. So did many other people. WoW opened up the genre to a lot more players because the game was very accessible and more importantly would run on any computer north of a calculator. The vast majorty of those players have no clue what a good sandbox feels like, and you can bet a large portion of them would love it if they were given a solid experience to try.
Once again pure assumption being passed as some kind of fact. I spent 3 hours today just doing heroics and flaspoints. Then teamed up with other player to participate in PVP. SWTOR doesn't force anyone to group but yes if people want to group (and they do group a lot) it is a fun experince. One needs to log in and just check general chat. So many groups forming all the time.
I have no idea how you can say it is not fun when it is puerly subjective? a lot of people find socialising fun in SWTOR even if you do not.
I miss it. When I jumped into Xsyon, as incomplete and broken as that game is, I at least had an immediate sense of the need to be involved in a guild, and to make friends, for the survival of my character. THAT is an MMORPG in my opinion. What has happened with SWTOR, is they looked at WoW, and seemingly asked "how can we make this even simpler?" Wellm they succeeded because it feels simpler in every conceiveble way, IMO.
But if they made the game like Xsyon, they wouldn't have me in it, so they probably made a choice: what demographics are potentially more profitable? Xsyon lost, non-social gaming won.
It's not a fair comparison. Xsyon is a broken, unfinished game with a very low budget. It failed to even be a playable game. I'm not suggesting everyone would love a sandbox. You very well may not, and that's fine. However, until we get a good solid AAA sandbox for people to try, I think the jury will have to remain out.
Your logic is like saying no one likes space travel, when there is no real mainstream space travel for people to try. Hopefully someone will spend the money to do a sandbox right one day, and we can see how it does.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I miss it. When I jumped into Xsyon, as incomplete and broken as that game is, I at least had an immediate sense of the need to be involved in a guild, and to make friends, for the survival of my character. THAT is an MMORPG in my opinion. What has happened with SWTOR, is they looked at WoW, and seemingly asked "how can we make this even simpler?" Wellm they succeeded because it feels simpler in every conceiveble way, IMO.
But if they made the game like Xsyon, they wouldn't have me in it, so they probably made a choice: what demographics are potentially more profitable? Xsyon lost, non-social gaming won.
It's not a fair comparison. Xsyon is a broken, unfinished game with a very low budget. It failed to even be a playable game. I'm not suggesting everyone would love a sandbox. You very well may not, and that's fine. However, until we get a good solid AAA sandbox for people to try, I think the jury will have to remain out.
Your logic is like saying no one likes space travel, when there is no real mainstream space travel for people to try. Hopefully someone will spend the money to do a sandbox right one day, and we can see how it does.
I miss it. When I jumped into Xsyon, as incomplete and broken as that game is, I at least had an immediate sense of the need to be involved in a guild, and to make friends, for the survival of my character. THAT is an MMORPG in my opinion. What has happened with SWTOR, is they looked at WoW, and seemingly asked "how can we make this even simpler?" Wellm they succeeded because it feels simpler in every conceiveble way, IMO.
But if they made the game like Xsyon, they wouldn't have me in it, so they probably made a choice: what demographics are potentially more profitable? Xsyon lost, non-social gaming won.
It's not a fair comparison. Xsyon is a broken, unfinished game with a very low budget. It failed to even be a playable game. I'm not suggesting everyone would love a sandbox. You very well may not, and that's fine. However, until we get a good solid AAA sandbox for people to try, I think the jury will have to remain out.
Your logic is like saying no one likes space travel, when there is no real mainstream space travel for people to try. Hopefully someone will spend the money to do a sandbox right one day, and we can see how it does.
I don't WANT to talk with people. What can I possibly say to them? And I'm not interested in whatever they have to say to me, provided they have anything to say to me.
When I want socializing, I go to thematic/discussion forums or my real-life social net. When I'm playing MMORPG I'm PLAYING, I don't want any other interaction!
I can understand *some* people being like Grahor. But there being so many as to change the whole MMO genre and turn it into a single player game online is beyond me.
I miss it. When I jumped into Xsyon, as incomplete and broken as that game is, I at least had an immediate sense of the need to be involved in a guild, and to make friends, for the survival of my character. THAT is an MMORPG in my opinion. What has happened with SWTOR, is they looked at WoW, and seemingly asked "how can we make this even simpler?" Wellm they succeeded because it feels simpler in every conceiveble way, IMO.
But if they made the game like Xsyon, they wouldn't have me in it, so they probably made a choice: what demographics are potentially more profitable? Xsyon lost, non-social gaming won.
It's not a fair comparison. Xsyon is a broken, unfinished game with a very low budget. It failed to even be a playable game. I'm not suggesting everyone would love a sandbox. You very well may not, and that's fine. However, until we get a good solid AAA sandbox for people to try, I think the jury will have to remain out.
Your logic is like saying no one likes space travel, when there is no real mainstream space travel for people to try. Hopefully someone will spend the money to do a sandbox right one day, and we can see how it does.
Someone is, it's called archeage.
Be cautiously optimistic
You got to be optimistic , just looking at the fluid animations on that bizarre looking mount they showed off gives me high hopes for the games quality. That mount has Some of the best animations i have ever seen.
I don't WANT to talk with people. What can I possibly say to them? And I'm not interested in whatever they have to say to me, provided they have anything to say to me.
When I want socializing, I go to thematic/discussion forums or my real-life social net. When I'm playing MMORPG I'm PLAYING, I don't want any other interaction!
This is my point exactly. MMOs should be incredibly social.
I suppose I don't like what they have become.
MMO stands for massively multiplayer online. Is it wrong that I expect all the content to encourage playing with others?
If you don't want to talk to others, why not just play a single player RPG?
No, they SHOULDN'T. You want them to be, but that's not the same as "they should".
Playing! Playing! Competing! Cooperating! Interacting! Not socializing! There is a DIFFERENCE. I greatly enjoy game/playing/competing/cooperating with other people in the game. I do not enjoy socializing with them in the game. Stop chattering and just play already.
You don't like it? Fine, but don't tell me what should and shouldn't be. My opinion is no less valid than yours and there are more people like me than people like you.
Excuse me? That's quite arrogant. But it may well be right, considering the communities most MMOs have nowadays.
Okay, allow me to correct myself; MMOs used to be about socialising/playing together, apparently they are not anymore.
Also, just so you know, socialising = playing or cooperation. They are two sides of the same coin. My point entirely is that the story cutscenes are not cooperative gameplay. They are mostly single player content that do not encourage grouping.
When me and my friends were playing TOR, the story content did not support the fact that we wanted to play together; is that better wording? That's probally our problem, but the point of this topic is based on how MMOs have changed and that they've lost their appeal in the multiplayer aspect.
This particular MMO encourages cooperation and multiplayer the least I've probally seen in an MMO. According to you, that's what everyone wants, so perhaps the genre is not for me anymore?
I think some people just view things differently. To me socializing means talking/chit-chatting, etc. I don't need to do any of these things in an mmorpg to group with someone. This is why I enjoy the grouping aspects of SWTOR, and I've grouped more in this game than any other outside of doing dungeons/raids. I enjoy grouping and group content, that doesn't mean I enjoy socializing, quite the opposit.
While I know that you aren't the one who said it, but previously someone asked something along the lines of "if you don't like to socialize and/or do group content then why play an mmo." For me personally, I just enjoy being around other people, watching them move about, kill mobs, etc. I'm the guy at the party standing around watching everybody else socialize. I enjoyed just watching other people and seeing people have fun, that was fun for me, so I in turn was having fun as well. Different people enjoy different aspects of being around other people.
Comments
If mmo games are tailored toward solo non-socializing content then why is all end game content in mmo's group content?
I had similar experiences as the OP. The cut scenes cause particular issues in situations such as joining a group late, or replacing someone who leaves a group, which is very common as we all know. I had situations where I was kicked from groups too, because they tried to communicate with me while I was in the middle of a cut scene. It does cause some awkward situations and misunderstandings.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I'm not a "nice" guy. I agree that I'm a jerk. But being a jerk towards you and your kind is not a bad thing, you know.
My kind haha, are you for real, have we met?
Broadly in he dev community people are trying to make games -more- social instead of less.
No, what has really happened is that these games have changed, and they are no longer MMORPGs anymore. They are MMOGs where the only things experienced via the online aspect are limited grouping, the chat window, and seeing other people run around in the world. The other players either don't matter, or they only matter in small and temporary doses. This manifests as meaningless and empty grouping expereinces where you only group up to combine firepower. Afterwards people quit, often without as much as a thank you.
Think of the brilliance from a money making standpoint. Because of the very limited interaction, there isn't as much "game" to be developed, managed and balanced. They simply make a big Co-Op like game with a fairly shallow experience and people still pay a monthly fee. In reality, games like this are a few tweaks away from being singple player PC games that don't even need to be connected to the internet.
I miss it. When I jumped into Xsyon, as incomplete and broken as that game is, I at least had an immediate sense of the need to be involved in a guild, and to make friends, for the survival of my character. THAT is an MMORPG in my opinion. What has happened with SWTOR, is they looked at WoW, and seemingly asked "how can we make this even simpler?" Well they succeeded because it feels simpler in every conceiveble way, IMO.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
By linking it to facebook and twitter? By adding social platforms to talk when you are _not_ playing? Care to point on, say, SWTOR or GW2 where they tried to make games -more- social?
But if they made the game like Xsyon, they wouldn't have me in it, so they probably made a choice: what demographics are potentially more profitable? Xsyon lost, non-social gaming won.
No i don't care to because the whole point of the OP was that TOR is less social, with which i agree. Why you bring in GW2 like it would be holy water on a vampire is beyond me also, because I do not give two fucks about GW2 (protip: not everyone criticizing TOR is automatically a GW2 fan).
TOR being in development since 2007 its understandable why they did not do it though, the social gaming trend only came up recently, and they do try to copy an old formula. The puzzle-pieces fit so well if you think about it.
Yet, that just brings me back to my original question; why is this an MMO (since questing likely takes up ~75% on time spent playing)?
TBH, this game is perfect for those who want a single player experience for the majority of playing, with some multiplayer on the side. However, I'm not sure if it will recieve mainstream appeal as a result (not that it's needed, as it would make for a better community perhaps).
This is typically the kind of game I could enjoy playing without interuption of others. But due to it's genre, I expected the opposite. It's not a bad game, I just don't think it's suited to it's genre (at least in the elements we've been discussing).
Not sure what to tell you. There are people who hate Bioware games because they specifically have to stop for the cut scenes. And those aren't multi player games.
I imagine that the demographic for this game might not really care about the stopping. I know I dont'.
Still, there are "mmo" features and one doesn't have to do the main story lines. It might be important to note that if the game is successful then this is just the beginning and they could feasibly add more content such as territory control for pvp or just plain ol' dungeon crawls.
Still, if one isn't into the main thrust of the game and can't pull themselves to find their own way then I can see the experience being flat. I haven't seen enough of the game to make any determination one way or another as to how robust the regular mmo parts are.
Probably because my game keeps "yo-yo'ing" in lag and it's sort of unplayable at the moment.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
go to the /who list and you will see tons of ppl that want to group up, click your lfg box and you will be fine.
Fallacy. The issue has more to do with the fact that the game is not designed to make grouping and socializing fun and important. People don't socialize or group much in these newer games because there is really no benefit to it. In past games where player interaction was an important key, people loved it. Developing long-term relationships with players in different professions and classes in these games was a big deal if you wanted your character to thrive, and there was nothing boring or laborious about it. It was a blast.
A lot of people around here assume no one would enjoy a sandbox-type game. Well, I did. I came from hardcore FPS clan match gaming to a sandbox games, and simply loved it for three years. So did many other people. WoW opened up the genre to a lot more players because the game was very accessible and more importantly would run on any computer north of a calculator. The vast majorty of those players have no clue what a good sandbox feels like, and you can bet a large portion of them would love it if they were given a solid experience to try.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I do think GW2's dynamic events encourage cooperation, as well as not discouraging you for being social (on that regard, it's indifferent). The difference with TOR is that it actively discourages cooperation and being social due to it's story content (which GW2 does have as well, but it's not the core content, being optional as it were). The cutscenes in GW2 are also semi-done in real time too, especially in the open world.
At least that's my own interpretation, it could well work out differently.
Once again pure assumption being passed as some kind of fact. I spent 3 hours today just doing heroics and flaspoints. Then teamed up with other player to participate in PVP. SWTOR doesn't force anyone to group but yes if people want to group (and they do group a lot) it is a fun experince. One needs to log in and just check general chat. So many groups forming all the time.
I have no idea how you can say it is not fun when it is puerly subjective? a lot of people find socialising fun in SWTOR even if you do not.
It's not a fair comparison. Xsyon is a broken, unfinished game with a very low budget. It failed to even be a playable game. I'm not suggesting everyone would love a sandbox. You very well may not, and that's fine. However, until we get a good solid AAA sandbox for people to try, I think the jury will have to remain out.
Your logic is like saying no one likes space travel, when there is no real mainstream space travel for people to try. Hopefully someone will spend the money to do a sandbox right one day, and we can see how it does.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Someone is, it's called archeage.
Be cautiously optimistic
I can understand *some* people being like Grahor. But there being so many as to change the whole MMO genre and turn it into a single player game online is beyond me.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
You got to be optimistic
I think some people just view things differently. To me socializing means talking/chit-chatting, etc. I don't need to do any of these things in an mmorpg to group with someone. This is why I enjoy the grouping aspects of SWTOR, and I've grouped more in this game than any other outside of doing dungeons/raids. I enjoy grouping and group content, that doesn't mean I enjoy socializing, quite the opposit.
While I know that you aren't the one who said it, but previously someone asked something along the lines of "if you don't like to socialize and/or do group content then why play an mmo." For me personally, I just enjoy being around other people, watching them move about, kill mobs, etc. I'm the guy at the party standing around watching everybody else socialize. I enjoyed just watching other people and seeing people have fun, that was fun for me, so I in turn was having fun as well. Different people enjoy different aspects of being around other people.