I have been playing most of the day. I made it out of the starter area.
This may sound odd, but if I was playing on release I would probably stick around for a while. I found the beginning quests tedius and bland. I actually don't look forward to having to do them again and may not.
I think I may be worn out on the entire genre, especially the theme park style so it is not my intention to put down anyone who is enjoying it.
The art style reminds me of the clone wars cartoons.
Everytime I get a chance to provide comment feedback, I am now trying to mention some aspect that could make the game feel more alive. I suggest numerous people start to do this as well.
Roaming mobs and criiters seems like something thats hasn't been added to the game properly.
I saw plenty of neutral beasts and mobs outside of the starter planets. Not sure why anyone would consider them missing, though perhaps lacking in comparison to other select MMOs; however, I don't think they add much significant.
As I've already said, I'm almost certain BW is more concerned about their servers and game stability with launch so close. This much-desired "Life and Soul" can ride the back-burner for a patch or two so long as I can play SWTOR without any meaningful, game-breaking bugs / glitches. It's a really picky subject, imo.
I really think this is nitpicking, to be honest. You're complaining about flair, not core mechanics - which, truthfully, is all Bioware is concerned with at the current point in time. They have thousands of preorders, and their numero uno priority is to assure both the stability of the game's core features and the servers.
The game STILL isn't out yet, and with this - presumed - last beta weekend around, people have been more opinionated than ever, like the game and its servers / technology / and staff are all frozen in time and space and are incapable of manufacturing anything substantial after release. Bioware has PLENTY of time to add all the vain little tidbits after they make sure their whole world doesn't collapse on the 25th ( 15th for those preorders ). Not to mention, they've handled listening to their audience real well whilst in beta, so I have no worries that the entire 'ride' will be made much smoother and prettier in months to come.
Just sit tight, and don't fret the small stuff.
Nitpicking? Ahh come on man!
Even old games like EverQuest 1 from 1999 had Day/Night cycles.
There is totally no ambient environmental effects in this game at all!
Where is the fog in caves and damp forest floors?
Where is the flare effects from the Sun(s)?
Where is the rain in green areas? And snow in cold icey areas?
You can't tell me Hero Engine doesn't support this anno 2011 / 2012!!
Well, I think I can explain they didn't try to take on day/night cycle, at any rate.
1) Expectation of a spectacular sky at night. -- plus -- 2) Necessity of (N(how many planets?) different night skies. -- or -- 3) random gen a starscape and listen to the griping about how its not right. Still need moon(s), different day lengths, etc. --and--4) nutbags analyzing your orbits and telling you why it can't work.
That's probably not built into this (or any) game engine, since there aren't many MMOs with this unique approach to the "world".
Cosmology nuts are rare, but regardless of the solution you choose, you end only with complaints. Company money lands on lowest man-hours.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
and something else all the races look the same human build apart from the race with the big ears.
its the first thing i noticed when picking a race. all we need to do now is put all the races/modles from the swg game into this one then it would be 10 out of 10 on all fronts.
Well, I think I can explain they didn't try to take on day/night cycle, at any rate.
1) Expectation of a spectacular sky at night. -- plus -- 2) Necessity of (N(how many planets?) different night skies. -- or -- 3) random gen a starscape and listen to the griping about how its not right. Still need moon(s), different day lengths, etc.
That's probably not built into this (or any) game engine, since there aren't many MMOs with this unique approach to the "world".
Cosmology nuts are rare, but regardless of the solution you choose, you end only with complaints.
I think the amount of cosmology nuts playing this game paying attention to the length of day/night cycles you can probably count on one hand lol.
I love astronomy and have plenty of equipment... I really don't expect that kind of realism in a game like this.
I would gladly settle with some basic day/night cycles, some fog/mist effects here and there... some ambient lighting effects... some rain and snow... and (dust) storm effects. Just to create at least SOME immersion in this game, instead of the sterile soulless crap we got now!
I think the amount of cosmology nuts playing this game paying attention to the length of day/night cycles you can probably count on one hand lol.
Are you sure? I'd notice. And this is Star Wars, we've got loads of geeks.
Anyway, simple matter is that multiple planets creates multiple versions of nights, if you do turn night cycles "on" your man-hour cost is much higher than in a standard one-world MMO.
:shrug:
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think the amount of cosmology nuts playing this game paying attention to the length of day/night cycles you can probably count on one hand lol.
Are you sure? I'd notice. And this is Star Wars, we've got loads of geeks.
Anyway, simple matter is that multiple planets creates multiple versions of nights, if you do turn night cycles "on" your man-hour cost is much higher than in a standard one-world MMO.
:shrug:
The reason why they haven't done it, is utter laziness!
For day/night cycles to work, you need environmental lightning, like street lights, lamp posts in forests, wall torches in caves, etc.
So people can still play and find their way in the dark!
Hero Engine supports environmental effects!
and man-hour costs? lol! This is the largest budget MMO in history! You would expect they could find some tiny bit of money here in that insane budget of theirs to add some soul and life to this game! /Facepalm
As I said before, I'm sure this game will be a hit for a lot of people, but I think a large section of us are going to be nagged by how shallow the whole experience feels.
You just called everyone that plays the game and enjoys it shallow, expect to be banned and the thread locked.
I must be missing some kind of inside joke here. I didn't insult anyone, and I gave solid reasons for my statements.
Someone else posted a post like yours and got it deleted after people whined to the mods. Negative posts of SW:TOR seems not tolerated on this site...
Dramatize much guys? The other thread got deleted because the poster was rude and condenscending towards people that didn't agree with his point of view. The OP of this thread was NOT. Saying a game is shallow is a whole lot different from saying that people who like this are shallow. BIG difference. Unlike the other thread, this one gave point by point reasons for his line of thinking without being rude and disrespectful of others. That is why it will stay. See, it IS possible to be negative about this game without attacking others.
The *static* art in this game, once you adjust to the style, is very nice looking. However, it is lifeless. Where is the immersion? In fact, I would use the world sterile to describe the areas I have experienced. There is nothing about it that suggests you are in a living breathing world. They have taken the term 'theme park' and expressed it to the maximum in this way. I get next to nothing for immersion in this game, and it's because the details that bring in atmosphere are all missing. No weather, no day/night cycle, very few living creatures, and nothing small and cosmetic running or flying around like you see in other games. Even the 'war' against the separatists is only seen in little pockets of "action" which barely deserve a glance.
I also think, that for the money spent on this game, the player animations are stiff and boring. My smuggler runs around like he has a pole driven up his backside. At least WoW characters look and feel substantial as they move around, and I'm no fan of WoW, let me tell you. For all the beauty in LOTRO, I hated those stiff and lifeless animations as well, and these feel exactly like that.
One thing I cannot stand is what I call "NPC Kiosks". They are those ridiculous little areas where NPCs seemed to have put up little store fronts where they can sell their story to you. Make no mistake. This is how a themepark must be made, because no matter what anyone says, or what little trinkets they put out, these games are not designed to be explored. They are designed to be scripted and funnel players in one direction or the other. Rift is the same way. They reward exploration by putting collectable crap out there, rather than making the world so interesting that you WANT to explore it.
Before the fanboys get all red and inflamed, I did buy the standard edition already, and I am hoping Bioware will add more details to the game shortly after launch. I'm also counting on an RP-PvP server having a more interesting player dynamic. One has to wonder where all the money is in this game. VO? I don't think so. The VO isn't that great, and if that is where most of the money went, they made a huge mistake.
This weekend was my second time playing, and while I did enjoy Smuggler much more than Jedi Knight, I very much noticed how dry the experience is this time around. As I said before, I'm sure this game will be a hit for a lot of people, but I think a large section of us are going to be nagged by how shallow the whole experience feels. I'm not advocating sandbox here either, because I honestly think games like LOTRO and WoW feel much more alive than this one does.
Edit: I do enjoy a lot of the VO content, though some of the side quests get on my nerves. I just don't think it was wise to put as much time and money into these if it meant the rest of the game would be dry.
i Agree to everything in this post . I preordered standard editon and that preorder is now canceled.
The reason why they haven't done it, is utter laziness!
For day/night cycles to work, you need environmental lightning, like street lights, lamp posts in forests, wall torches in caves, etc.
So people can still play and find their way in the dark!
Hero Engine supports environmental effects!
and man-hour costs? lol! This is the largest budget MMO in history! You would expect they could find some tiny bit of money here in that insane budget of theirs to add some soul and life to this game! /Facepalm
Obviously it's a Big Issue to you.
Given infinite cost and infinite time we could indeed have everything anyone ever imagined on opening day.
Read up on "Feature Bloat".
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Hmmm...don't realy care about this topic really...I have played so many MMOs that the whole idea of graphical immersion is really meaningless to me, doesn't really add to the "fun" factor really. I just focus on the content in the game really, given the graphics are acceptable...which, in my opinion, surpasses in TOR. There is advanced lighting and textures, shadows, effects, etc. Graphics are "stylized" yet not out-of-date. They moved along with the theme KOTOR, obviously as far as style is concerned. Which is fine, that is how it should be in the old republic games. I don't understand your whine, OP. I think the devs were too busy trying to make a good game, with good enjoyable content rather than catering to things such as immersion. In fact, some people (like myself) find petty attempts at immersion kind of annoying. Just saying.
Edit: in a nutshell, I completely disagree with your entire post OP.
Hmmm...don't realy care about this topic really...I have played so many MMOs that the whole idea of graphical immersion is really meaningless to me, doesn't really add to the "fun" factor really. I just focus on the content in the game really, given the graphics are acceptable...which, in my opinion, surpasses in TOR. There is advanced lighting and textures, shadows, effects, etc. Graphics are "stylized" yet not out-of-date. They moved along with the theme KOTOR, obviously as far as style is concerned. Which is fine, that is how it should be in the old republic games. I don't understand your whine, OP. I think the devs were too busy trying to make a good game, with good enjoyable content rather than catering to things such as immersion. In fact, some people (like myself) find petty attempts at immersion kind of annoying. Just saying.
Instead of attacking the OP and spouting out nonsense you know nothing about, maybe get a clue first?
Content designers are not Environmental artists! And environment artists are not Content designers!
Last I played, I commented that it felt like a bus station at 4am, everywhere I go. Even a cantina I ran through just felt so dead. Especially ironic, considering there's no such thing as 4am in the game - if there were, it'd actually be pretty cool if it felt that way, when appropriate.
Part of it is simply the lack of ambient sound and music. It's there, but its very minimal.
Another aspect is that there's all these wide open areas and corridors, and they're practically deserted, aside from an NPC or two standing around. Server load listed as heavy, but you'll never get that feeling of life from just players. Game needs more NPCs, even if they have to have a massive amount of client side prediction to reduce server load.
Then there's how entire zones look the same all over. I'd taxi from one end to the other, and can barely tell I've gone anywhere without looking at my map. Seems to be such a stark lack of creativity involved in the world design. My gf watching over my shoulder commented that it's as if the game were designed by a sociopath, how everything is so utilitarian looking.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Could not disagree with you more. I am absolutely loving this game so far.
Yeah that^
I seriously don't know what people want anymore, This is an MMO not a FPS not a button basher, An MMO. All the MMO's I have played over the years none of them have had amazing combat etc etc. I have not yet seen end game, If Bioware fu*k this up there is something wrong.
Hmmm...don't realy care about this topic really...I have played so many MMOs that the whole idea of graphical immersion is really meaningless to me, doesn't really add to the "fun" factor really. I just focus on the content in the game really, given the graphics are acceptable...which, in my opinion, surpasses in TOR. There is advanced lighting and textures, shadows, effects, etc. Graphics are "stylized" yet not out-of-date. They moved along with the theme KOTOR, obviously as far as style is concerned. Which is fine, that is how it should be in the old republic games. I don't understand your whine, OP. I think the devs were too busy trying to make a good game, with good enjoyable content rather than catering to things such as immersion. In fact, some people (like myself) find petty attempts at immersion kind of annoying. Just saying.
Instead of attacking the OP and spouting out nonsense you know nothing about, maybe get a clue first?
Content designers are not Environmental artists! And environment artists are not Content designers!
Two completely different teams!
My bad, my bad. On the point of content versus immersion as of priority, I withdraw my statements. As such, in regards to immersion in general, I still hold a solid opinion. I don't care about day/night cycles and weather patterns...ambient sounds, or people having conversations in the background. It is really all redundant, and has close to nothing to do with the actual playing of the game. Notice I said "close." Really, just a waste of time. If that is a game-breaker for you, then I truly feel sorry for you, because that really limits what games you can truly enjoy.
One "want" per person, apparently all different. And ire at the devs if their "want" isn't the top of the priority list.
That's pretty much the nutshell history of MMO message boards there. ^
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Maybe the devs should have looked at Ashenvale. Got to admit still gives me fond memories running through that fantastic zone in wow. Full of life. Plus the musical score was simply stunning. Does SWTOR actually have any atmosphere????
Roaming mobs and criiters seems like something thats hasn't been added to the game properly.
I saw plenty of neutral beasts and mobs outside of the starter planets. Not sure why anyone would consider them missing, though perhaps lacking in comparison to other select MMOs; however, I don't think they add much significant.
As I've already said, I'm almost certain BW is more concerned about their servers and game stability with launch so close. This much-desired "Life and Soul" can ride the back-burner for a patch or two so long as I can play SWTOR without any meaningful, game-breaking bugs / glitches. It's a really picky subject, imo.
Plenty of neutral beasts doing what? Standing in place right?
That's the thing, the cities and social hubs have npc's, but most of them just sit there and you can't even interact with them, nor do they talk to each other. In 2 weekends I heard 1 ambient npc conversation. ONE. In the regular world most mobs just sit in place, and the VERY FEW critters / beasts just do the same thing also.
The game may be the most immersion lacking mmo I've ever played, and I'm not exaggerating.
Comments
I have been playing most of the day. I made it out of the starter area.
This may sound odd, but if I was playing on release I would probably stick around for a while. I found the beginning quests tedius and bland. I actually don't look forward to having to do them again and may not.
I think I may be worn out on the entire genre, especially the theme park style so it is not my intention to put down anyone who is enjoying it.
The art style reminds me of the clone wars cartoons.
Both positive and negative opinions are welcome here for discussion. It's in how you express it.
Of course, anyone with feedback on moderation decisions is welcome to email MikeB at community@mmorpg.com.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
Everytime I get a chance to provide comment feedback, I am now trying to mention some aspect that could make the game feel more alive. I suggest numerous people start to do this as well.
Roaming mobs and criiters seems like something thats hasn't been added to the game properly.
I saw plenty of neutral beasts and mobs outside of the starter planets. Not sure why anyone would consider them missing, though perhaps lacking in comparison to other select MMOs; however, I don't think they add much significant.
As I've already said, I'm almost certain BW is more concerned about their servers and game stability with launch so close. This much-desired "Life and Soul" can ride the back-burner for a patch or two so long as I can play SWTOR without any meaningful, game-breaking bugs / glitches. It's a really picky subject, imo.
Nitpicking? Ahh come on man!
Even old games like EverQuest 1 from 1999 had Day/Night cycles.
There is totally no ambient environmental effects in this game at all!
Where is the fog in caves and damp forest floors?
Where is the flare effects from the Sun(s)?
Where is the rain in green areas? And snow in cold icey areas?
You can't tell me Hero Engine doesn't support this anno 2011 / 2012!!
Well, I think I can explain they didn't try to take on day/night cycle, at any rate.
1) Expectation of a spectacular sky at night. -- plus -- 2) Necessity of (N(how many planets?) different night skies. -- or -- 3) random gen a starscape and listen to the griping about how its not right. Still need moon(s), different day lengths, etc. --and--4) nutbags analyzing your orbits and telling you why it can't work.
That's probably not built into this (or any) game engine, since there aren't many MMOs with this unique approach to the "world".
Cosmology nuts are rare, but regardless of the solution you choose, you end only with complaints. Company money lands on lowest man-hours.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
i have to agree with the movement of ya races,
and something else all the races look the same human build apart from the race with the big ears.
its the first thing i noticed when picking a race. all we need to do now is put all the races/modles from the swg game into this one then it would be 10 out of 10 on all fronts.
The "absolutely no reason" is probably they felt it didn't need it, which I would agree with.
You sound outraged :-s
I think the amount of cosmology nuts playing this game paying attention to the length of day/night cycles you can probably count on one hand lol.
I love astronomy and have plenty of equipment... I really don't expect that kind of realism in a game like this.
I would gladly settle with some basic day/night cycles, some fog/mist effects here and there... some ambient lighting effects... some rain and snow... and (dust) storm effects. Just to create at least SOME immersion in this game, instead of the sterile soulless crap we got now!
Are you sure? I'd notice. And this is Star Wars, we've got loads of geeks.
Anyway, simple matter is that multiple planets creates multiple versions of nights, if you do turn night cycles "on" your man-hour cost is much higher than in a standard one-world MMO.
:shrug:
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The reason why they haven't done it, is utter laziness!
For day/night cycles to work, you need environmental lightning, like street lights, lamp posts in forests, wall torches in caves, etc.
So people can still play and find their way in the dark!
Hero Engine supports environmental effects!
and man-hour costs? lol! This is the largest budget MMO in history! You would expect they could find some tiny bit of money here in that insane budget of theirs to add some soul and life to this game! /Facepalm
Dramatize much guys? The other thread got deleted because the poster was rude and condenscending towards people that didn't agree with his point of view. The OP of this thread was NOT. Saying a game is shallow is a whole lot different from saying that people who like this are shallow. BIG difference. Unlike the other thread, this one gave point by point reasons for his line of thinking without being rude and disrespectful of others. That is why it will stay. See, it IS possible to be negative about this game without attacking others.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Obviously it's a Big Issue to you.
Given infinite cost and infinite time we could indeed have everything anyone ever imagined on opening day.
Read up on "Feature Bloat".
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Hmmm...don't realy care about this topic really...I have played so many MMOs that the whole idea of graphical immersion is really meaningless to me, doesn't really add to the "fun" factor really. I just focus on the content in the game really, given the graphics are acceptable...which, in my opinion, surpasses in TOR. There is advanced lighting and textures, shadows, effects, etc. Graphics are "stylized" yet not out-of-date. They moved along with the theme KOTOR, obviously as far as style is concerned. Which is fine, that is how it should be in the old republic games. I don't understand your whine, OP. I think the devs were too busy trying to make a good game, with good enjoyable content rather than catering to things such as immersion. In fact, some people (like myself) find petty attempts at immersion kind of annoying. Just saying.
Edit: in a nutshell, I completely disagree with your entire post OP.
Argh
Instead of attacking the OP and spouting out nonsense you know nothing about, maybe get a clue first?
Content designers are not Environmental artists! And environment artists are not Content designers!
Two completely different teams!
Last I played, I commented that it felt like a bus station at 4am, everywhere I go. Even a cantina I ran through just felt so dead. Especially ironic, considering there's no such thing as 4am in the game - if there were, it'd actually be pretty cool if it felt that way, when appropriate.
Part of it is simply the lack of ambient sound and music. It's there, but its very minimal.
Another aspect is that there's all these wide open areas and corridors, and they're practically deserted, aside from an NPC or two standing around. Server load listed as heavy, but you'll never get that feeling of life from just players. Game needs more NPCs, even if they have to have a massive amount of client side prediction to reduce server load.
Then there's how entire zones look the same all over. I'd taxi from one end to the other, and can barely tell I've gone anywhere without looking at my map. Seems to be such a stark lack of creativity involved in the world design. My gf watching over my shoulder commented that it's as if the game were designed by a sociopath, how everything is so utilitarian looking.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Yeah that^
I seriously don't know what people want anymore, This is an MMO not a FPS not a button basher, An MMO. All the MMO's I have played over the years none of them have had amazing combat etc etc. I have not yet seen end game, If Bioware fu*k this up there is something wrong.
My bad, my bad. On the point of content versus immersion as of priority, I withdraw my statements. As such, in regards to immersion in general, I still hold a solid opinion. I don't care about day/night cycles and weather patterns...ambient sounds, or people having conversations in the background. It is really all redundant, and has close to nothing to do with the actual playing of the game. Notice I said "close." Really, just a waste of time. If that is a game-breaker for you, then I truly feel sorry for you, because that really limits what games you can truly enjoy.
Argh
Thumbs up
Argh
One "want" per person, apparently all different. And ire at the devs if their "want" isn't the top of the priority list.
That's pretty much the nutshell history of MMO message boards there. ^
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Nicely said.
Argh
Maybe the devs should have looked at Ashenvale. Got to admit still gives me fond memories running through that fantastic zone in wow. Full of life. Plus the musical score was simply stunning. Does SWTOR actually have any atmosphere????
Land of AKA Godzilla with Wifey
Plenty of neutral beasts doing what? Standing in place right?
That's the thing, the cities and social hubs have npc's, but most of them just sit there and you can't even interact with them, nor do they talk to each other. In 2 weekends I heard 1 ambient npc conversation. ONE. In the regular world most mobs just sit in place, and the VERY FEW critters / beasts just do the same thing also.
The game may be the most immersion lacking mmo I've ever played, and I'm not exaggerating.