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NWN was a CORPG, then PW turned it into a MMORPG: what do they mean by that, or is that just marketi
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
in Neverwinter
NWN was designed to be a CORPG, yet later on in the development, PW joined in and converted it over to a true MMO. but what does that even mean? How was this done? I am curious because I concerned that PW and Crptic are trying to pull a marketing terminology Scheme on the MMORPG consumer base, in a similar way that games like DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE, DYNASTY WARRIOR ONLINE, VINTICUS, are all being miss represented as MMORPG which they truly aren't. PW and Crptic, seem to be making this conversion of a CORPG into a MMORPG, seem easier than it truly is. Had it truly been this easy, why didn't Anet simply convert Guild Wars into a MMORPG? something screams marketing scam approaching! But if handled well, and delivers on the sandbox concept, I may pick this product up even if it's not a true MMORPG.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
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It is just marketing talk. At most they might up the number of people a single social instance can support (town/taverns/etc) or add raid content at higher levels, but that is all.
Source?
I wouldn't say MMORPG at all -- Neverwinter is a cooperative RPG.
EDIT: Did some looking around and they do, in fact, call it an MMO on their page:
"This immersive Free-to-play MMO..." - NWN site, About the Game
I'm inclined to say that it is an error on the part of those that wrote the copy for the site, as my statement above is a word-for-word copy of a statement by jack Emmert.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
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**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Does not matter. It is Cryptic.
Whatever it will be it will be fail, bad game with greedy business model.
A source.
The statement by Jack stating the game would be a CO-OP RPG was rendered invalid when PW purchased Cryptic.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
My EDIT quotes that. I don't see how his statement is invalidated by PW buying Cryptic, though. No new statement or change of direction was announced, was it?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Mis-communication. I was refering to Jack's original statement that Neverwinter was designed not to be an MMO but a CO-OP RPG instead.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Has nobody noticed the largest repository of information that has ever existed in human history sitting right there?
http://www.playneverwinter.com/about_neverwinter
The official About page. The game will be a F2P "MMO".
http://www.playneverwinter.com/faq
The official FAQ page. The game will be a "Massive, Multiplayer Online RPG".
If they started off with CORPG, they are now headed in the direction of MMORPG. This is Cryptic, so expect something similar to Champions and STO, but possibly more developed. Players will be able to create campaigns using the same tool that's available in STO, but of course modified and updated for NW.
** edit **
Though, it appears it will still be COOP focused.
http://www.gamefront.com/neverwinter-mmo-officially-announced/
From the article - "The game appears to be co-op focused centering on 5 players adventuring teams."
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
We all noitced it. That's what we are talking about.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Last I heard they couldn't leagally make an MMO, because Turbine still had the exclusive rights to D&D licensed MMOs.
Atari was trying to sue Turbine for "Breach of contract" or somesuch so that they could go ahead and do a NWN MMO.
Never heard if there was any settlement on that.
It'll be a very loose definition of MMORPG probably lacking an open world in favor of many dungeon instances and a single NeverWinter instance that servers as the home for all players. From there, players will put together 5 man groups and run dungeons.
Just far enough of a step away from COOP-RPG to be called an MMORPG, but only just barely.
** edit **
Also, an important distinction here is that this is a 'NeverWinter' game, not a 'NeverWinter Nights' game. Apparently there is a difference between the two. Perhaps someone who's followed the games can let us know what the difference is?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Five man seems to be optimal for both smal groups, existing clans and PUGs. For campaign-based gaming, that seems the best way to go. Would really like to see them do that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
NWN didnt support persistent worlds when it was released.
Players found a way to program around that, i.e. allow the servers to have an evolving game world.
However, a MMO is, to me, a game where I can play with hundreds or thousands of players. Of course NWN, not using any commercial hardware, cannot handle more than ca 30 players on a single server, thus it cannot ever be more than a persistent world.
When Neverwinter Nights was first released in in 1991, yes 1991 by SSI they had hosted servers on AOL where people could team up and run content or share content. The servers originally allowed 50 people per but was eventualy raised to 500 per server. This is a CORPG, and it's success led to Ultima and Everquest being created. With how the guilds ran special events and such it was the closest thing to an MMO that anyone had at the time.
Bioware bought the rights from SSI and scrapped the goldbox engine that it originally used and remade Neverwinter Nights. This is the NWN that most of us think of as the first one.
It seems Cryptic might have had plans to return it to it's roots per se. I seriously doubt that since they are all about money and how they can squeeze as much from anyone unfortunate enough to get interested in their games. But that's my opinion and still bitter about the damned C-Store /grumble
They probably were going to try and charge people for the modules people played, number of NPC's allowed in your party and how big your party size could be, I'm just speculating but I'm positive Cryptic would charge someone for taking a piss break while playing their games if they could.
It's definitely campaign based. So much so that players can make their own campaigns. The vibe they have on their website is that NeverWinter will be like having the NeverWinter PnP game, but with digital tools.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Actually, I believe it was Turbine that sued Atari - however it was settled out of court in (I believe) April of '10. Obviously they came to some sort of amicable agreement, since Turbine still holds global DDO rights, and Cryptic/PW are being allowed to go ahead with their NWN 'MMO'
Cryptic is incapable of releasing a game with enough content for anyone to consider it a MMO, so they called it CORPG. IIRC originally they called it an OMG, much to the giggling of people that have basked in the fail of Cryptic's recent offerings.
I agree. No matter what they call it, its Cryptic.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
a couple of notes:
DDO is based on the older 3.5 pnp ruleset which allows for tremendous character customization. The 'new' NWN will be based on the newer 4.0 ruleset which has been rejected by enough pnp players that another company has sprung to the fore releasing material based on the open sourced 3.5 ruleset.
i will probably login to see what they've 'done with the place' visually, but ive played the 4.0 ruleset and whlie it's perfect for a WoW style mmo, it just doesn't have the diversity and potential of the 3.5 rules.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
considering 3/3.5 were the dumbed down version of AD&D...
what's good of PnP roleplayin games thou is that you can easily change their stupid rules to your taste (or ignore them at all), sadly (but for a good reason) that doesn't work for CRPG/MMORPGs
I have one question.
Where was it ever mentioned that this was indeed Neverwinter NIGHTS 3 ?
As far as i can tell it was always Neverwinter ONLINE, i dont see the NIGHTS part.
I think people just assumed it was NWN 3 when it never was .
Just because something has Neverwinter in its title does not mean its a continuation of NWN 1 & 2.
I dont get how people can overlook this SIMPLE fact, unless im mistaken and the company actually said it was NWN3, if so give me a link !
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I have a feeling people are saying NWN out of habit instead of saying NW. Nobody in this thread has actually suggested this is Neverwinter Nights 3 have they?
They do by comparing it to NWN
For example the OP:
"NWN was designed to be a CORPG, yet later on in the development, PW joined in and converted it over to a true MMO."
You can see this kind of thing in various posts where poeple are trying to judge this game for being different from the NWN series.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Neverwinter = After the spell plague basicly corrupted or wiped the known world of 3.5 ruleset (The setting for NWN). 4th Edition D&D is what set about with this new story arc towards a complete overhaul of the Neverwinter Nights story line Basicly taking Nights out of the title.
I call it a story arc because Nights merely denotes the tales of that period in it's history. It is just the name given that story arc. How much like a book titled Nights in Harlem. Harlem being the city, Nights being just a point of reference that things are wilder in that city at night or that many adventures burst forth within the dark covers of the moon and stars if you could see them through the smog. This is opinion but I think it makes sense for the most part.
Neverwinter falls into 4th edition. Where things are all flipped around and chaotic in this once familiar city. From plagues to, riots, and mass hysteria. Corruption and magical monstrosities abound now. New evils arise to meet the sun and from the ashes come what's left of the small points of light in the world = yours, mine, and our heroes. Forged from the destruction to be tougher bolder and all that advertising style fluff they like to throw around. Simply put the place is crazy enough now night or day it's supposed to be wilder. *stretch + yawn*
*Personally: Their advertizments seem a bit rushed and didn't really bother to get some decent voice actors like Bioware did back in the day for NWN. Neverwinter seems like something they flash in your face that should be a tasty bit of action adventure when it's a microwave dinner that's been sitting in the fridge too long. I can't say too much though I'm still going to check it out, but I always didn't mind a little freezer burn on my food. Don't think I'll pay for half assed food nuked though. I stopped doing that when our Burger King started doing it. If I want something nuked I'll make it myself.
Funny enough I don't have much interest in 4th edition because they style it with all the pretty colors and WoW'ed it up. Yes I know I used WoW as a point of reference. You'll have to forgive me, but that is exactly what they drew from for inspiration or the lack there of. 4E as it is favorably called took on a style of play that resembled the most popular thing of that time World of Warcraft unfortunately and threw away classic styling for fantasy. Hey they are still making money more power to them. I just find it funny that to style a game so much on popular MMOs then to have such a bad habit of hiring people who don't know how to effectively pitch or create them also that do not seem to care all that much. Kind of runs along the same lines af every movie Wizards (a.k.a. D&D) has ever atempted.
Example of 4E being WoW inspired: When you take the Pen and Paper game and make it balanced to where all classes can heal in some way or another and throw in wildly massive weapons and toonish looking size shoulder pads. Not to mention almost every option operating the same as an attack. That is the part I am talking about, as I said more power to them. I don't discourage playing it if that is what you like. I mainly added that so players of 4E would know I got no hate. Just a personal taste toward that style that I don't prefer.
If you still get uppity over my opinion then all I can suggest is please take a chill pill as life will throw many opinions your way that don't amount to piss in an old shoe along the highway. Easily forgotten and wouldn't even garner your attention other than you stuck your foot in it by chance hoping for a free shoe instead having your dreams dashed by some guy's drunken misshap. If you hadn't been looking for gold on the side of the road you wouldn't have landed in a Nike with a special water proof lining. Ignore the shoes and keep driving.
D&D movies: True enough I got them cheap later and I watched them and in some small fractured part of my not so deep thought proccess I enjoyed tiny aspects of them. Tiny being the key word there. Wouldn't have suggested paying ticket price for them then and still wouldn't suggest it. For some reason NWN was the only real luck they had in finding a group who actually gave a flip about what went into their games. This group being Bioware creators of Neverwinter Nights.
For Neverwinter. I remain hopefull that they will achieve something unique and worth while. In my thoughts though I run through a large gauntlet of doubt and hesitation toward anything as slack jawed slapped together as their videos. Admitting the first one I saw got my engine going, the second one was like jabbing holes in my gas tank and stepping on the pedal. Anyway blah blah blah obviously I am up too late that's why I'm typing like I got nothing better to do. Later and good gaming to all...
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