Weapons/armor everything is modable in SWTOR and it is both statistical and visual. Infact it gives crafter a lot more importance than any themepark MMO in recent years. In GW2 item modification is not linked with crafting and that is my main point. I consider it a step up over simple crafting of GW2. When i talk about mods in SWTOR i am actually talking about two things in one. So yeah difference is not that significant really. SWTOR is just one step ahead of GW2 in crafting.
AFAIK, in GW2 item modification is linked with crafting - for example, weaponsmith can craft sword handle which can then be applied to sword for specific bonuses. Isn't that similar to how things work in SWTOR?
Besides, it's not really my intention to discuss in details which game has made better progress on features they innovate. As you've said before - it's often subjective (I find three dye channels more innovative than whatever TOR has, you don't). My point is still - for vast majority of SWTOR innovation areas, GW2 offers something new, too. It doesn't work the other way. And that's why they're not equally different from WoW.
Yes and that is why i brough up this point to begin with. The point is not if they are how different from WOW because everyone has their own thresh hold and criteria but it does bother me when people take it upon themselves to define what is WOW clone and somehow their word is the only last one. if SWTOR is more closer to WOW according to this thresh hold then maybe GW2 is a lesser clone. *shrugs*
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Weapons/armor everything is modable in SWTOR and it is both statistical and visual. Infact it gives crafter a lot more importance than any themepark MMO in recent years. In GW2 item modification is not linked with crafting and that is my main point. I consider it a step up over simple crafting of GW2. When i talk about mods in SWTOR i am actually talking about two things in one. So yeah difference is not that significant really. SWTOR is just one step ahead of GW2 in crafting.
.... mmm.... I'll admit, I don't know much about SW:tOR crafting (Other than the part with your companions, and the basic types of skills) (feel free to link me to an article or entry somewhere that exhaustively explains SW:tOR crafting, I'd be happy to read it. Google got me a lot of information about the crafting I already knew about, not the most recent stuff) , but...
... I'm not sure you know much about GW2 crafting either, to be fair. Why do you say that GW2 crafting doesn't have item modification? You're talking about the 'simple crafting' of GW2, but how much do you actually know about it?
Also, I wouldn't call SW:tOR a WoW clone, but I would say that it has all the features of WoW that made me quit playing WoW. (and this is just a personal taste thing. Some people LOVE those features.)
That's usually what people mean when they say WoW clone, anyway. They're saying it has features in common with WoW, that the person dislikes. Nobody (Or hardly anybody) uses WoW clone as a compliment, so it's obviously not a complete matchup of all features.
Personally, there are three main aspects of MMOs that hold the core game together;
1) Combat
2) Content
3) Group Dynamics.
With TOR, all three of these areas are similar to WoW or a traditional MMO. In GW2, they are all very different than a traditional MMO.
Sure, TOR does do things differently when it comes to crafting, minigames, companions etc... But those are extra features that aren't the glue to the MMO as a whole. With GW2, the core principles of the game are very different to your standard MMO. To me, the space combat, the bar brawls, the companions. the cutscenes, the personality systems etc... Mean very little in comparison to the bigger picture. This in my mind, makes GW2 is the more innovative MMO. Some may disagree, but I prioritise these aspects the most when looking at any MMO.
In case content seems too vague, I'm talking about the core objectives in the open world.
Personally, there are three main aspects of MMOs that hold the core game together;
1) Combat
2) Content
3) Group Dynamics.
With TOR, all three of these areas are similar to WoW or a traditional MMO. In GW2, they are all very different than a traditional MMO.
Sure, TOR does do things differently when it comes to crafting, minigames, companions etc... But those are extra features that aren't the glue to the MMO as a whole. With GW2, the core principles of the game are very different to your standard MMO. To me, the space combat, the bar brawls, the companions. the cutscenes, the personality systems etc... Mean very little in comparison to the bigger picture. This in my mind, makes GW2 is the more innovative MMO. Some may disagree, but I prioritise these aspects the most when looking at any MMO.
In case content seems too vague, I'm talking about the core objectives in the open world.
Very good point DLuna. As I said on the most recent show, one of the things that turned me off from SWToR is some of the videos I saw showed a UI just filled with names and numbers. It utterly broke any real immersion I could have in that game. It's posible that was just someone's customized UI.
Weapons/armor everything is modable in SWTOR and it is both statistical and visual. Infact it gives crafter a lot more importance than any themepark MMO in recent years. In GW2 item modification is not linked with crafting and that is my main point. I consider it a step up over simple crafting of GW2. When i talk about mods in SWTOR i am actually talking about two things in one. So yeah difference is not that significant really. SWTOR is just one step ahead of GW2 in crafting.
A vanity system you mean. yeh thats not new. Again a TOR fan confusing FLUFF for actual content, next thing you will tell me how innovative VO is. When it comes down to it the TOR crafting mechanics are not really different from WOW crafting mechanics, because TOR is a WOW clone.
Weapons/armor everything is modable in SWTOR and it is both statistical and visual. Infact it gives crafter a lot more importance than any themepark MMO in recent years. In GW2 item modification is not linked with crafting and that is my main point. I consider it a step up over simple crafting of GW2. When i talk about mods in SWTOR i am actually talking about two things in one. So yeah difference is not that significant really. SWTOR is just one step ahead of GW2 in crafting.
A vanity system you mean. yeh thats not new. Again a TOR fan confusing FLUFF for actual content, next thing you will tell me how innovative VO is. When it comes down to it the TOR crafting mechanics are not really different from WOW crafting mechanics, because TOR is a WOW clone.
Thanks for not reading the rest of the posts and just confirming what i was trying to say all along.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Whatever happened to making a point without generalising and insulting others? what makes you think your life is so much better than those who are living a crappy existence? let me guess because you are goign to play GW2?
You mean like that? Yeh I caught what your trying to say, GW2 players are losers and TOR is innovative. Gotcha.
Why exactly are you trolling the GW2 boards with TOR PR. I doubt anyone on this forum gives a crap about TOR.
Hahah lol..what? no that is not what i said. The guy whom i quoted was the one who was saying that who ever doesn't like / play GW2 is living a crappy existence. I am actually against calling any one a loser only on basis of what game they like to play
By the way my discussion wasn't even about GW2 vs TOR because i am going to play both games. But about the double standards often used to label a MMO WOW clone. But can't blame you when you can not even read one quote properly. Every one was being civil and mature till you joined.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Hey some people are content to go through life watching the world pass them by, eating the same shit every day, living a crappy existence.....those people are the ones who do what ever someone tells them to do like Play WoW Clones.
There are others who strive to get ahead, better themselves, are not satisfied with the status quo, live life to its fullest and want something better from their leisure activity.....those people demand their game be different, better and push the boundarys. These people are waiting for GW2.
I am fine with people wanting subpar gaming experiences, and im sure they are entertained moreso then I would be from a shallow gaming experience but thank god I am not blinded by mediocrity and the status quo. GW2 or TSW are the saviors this genre is so desperatly in need of.
Not that i like calling GW2 a WOW clone but if i use the same criteria that is used to label other MMOS WOW clone, i am sure i can use it on GW2. It has many themepark elements and is staying true to classic MMO style. Yes it is adding its own twist to lot of features just like TSW and how SWTOR did.
Also i find it very offending that you would use a MMO as a standard to show how to live a non crappy existence. Why would you even look down upon such people is beyond me. is this what GW2 community is all about? not to mention the guy giving you +1? i used to gasp when i witnessed this elitisim in WOW and i really don't want the same to happen to GW2.
Whatever happened to making a point without generalising and insulting others? what makes you think your life is so much better than those who are living a crappy existence? let me guess because you are goign to play GW2?
/facepalm
That is civil? Sure his post was a little over the top but then again saying why you want to play GW2 on the GW2 forums isn't out of the ordinary you know. It's not like he came to the Guild wars forums to talk about how much better The Old Republic is than GW2, which is what you seem to want to do. Also if being civil requires one to let you hijack the forums to turn it into another TOR thread then the answer is quite simply no. And that IS what YOU said.
Hey some people are content to go through life watching the world pass them by, eating the same shit every day, living a crappy existence.....those people are the ones who do what ever someone tells them to do like Play WoW Clones.
There are others who strive to get ahead, better themselves, are not satisfied with the status quo, live life to its fullest and want something better from their leisure activity.....those people demand their game be different, better and push the boundarys. These people are waiting for GW2.
I am fine with people wanting subpar gaming experiences, and im sure they are entertained moreso then I would be from a shallow gaming experience but thank god I am not blinded by mediocrity and the status quo. GW2 or TSW are the saviors this genre is so desperatly in need of.
Not that i like calling GW2 a WOW clone but if i use the same criteria that is used to label other MMOS WOW clone, i am sure i can use it on GW2. It has many themepark elements and is staying true to classic MMO style. Yes it is adding its own twist to lot of features just like TSW and how SWTOR did.
Also i find it very offending that you would use a MMO as a standard to show how to live a non crappy existence. Why would you even look down upon such people is beyond me. is this what GW2 community is all about? not to mention the guy giving you +1? i used to gasp when i witnessed this elitisim in WOW and i really don't want the same to happen to GW2.
Whatever happened to making a point without generalising and insulting others? what makes you think your life is so much better than those who are living a crappy existence? let me guess because you are goign to play GW2?
/facepalm
That is civil? Sure his post was a little over the top but then again saying why you want to play GW2 on the GW2 forums isn't out of the ordinary you know. It's not like he came to the Guild wars forums to talk about how much better The Old Republic is than GW2, which is what you seem to want to do. Also if being civil requires one to let you hijack the forums to turn it into another TOR thread then the answer is quite simply no. And that IS what YOU said.
Zylaxx made a claim that people who are satisfied with current MMOs have settled on crap. You can't be surprised that people who disagree with such statement act offended, and you can't deny them right to answer - GW2 forum or not.
Guess when a bigger audience is wanted bad enough its easier to turn to controversial flame bait instead of real topics. A better discussion would be why MMOs fail in the west instead of picking one to specifically bait the audience.
You Sir....didnt watch the episode.
To be honest.......I cant even rebut your post because your failure at english keeps me from understanding your point of your op.
Its a great episode.......but you cant judge the book by the cover on this one.
well, that's bad luck i guess, when you print someone eating a cow on the cover of a book, you will not sell it to vegan people, if you understand what i mean.
i wont watch it either with such a HUGE trollface on it's cover
Tales of Tyria links have been posted on these forums for months now. Observe that this was podcast #7. Factor in the fact that Tyria is in the title of the podcast, and one *should* be able to infer that these guys are pretty big fans of GW2 and that the title is sarcastic.
That is civil? Sure his post was a little over the top but then again saying why you want to play GW2 on the GW2 forums isn't out of the ordinary you know. It's not like he came to the Guild wars forums to talk about how much better The Old Republic is than GW2, which is what you seem to want to do. Also if being civil requires one to let you hijack the forums to turn it into another TOR thread then the answer is quite simply no. And that IS what YOU said.
That is called a rhetorical question. Do i really need to explain what that question really meant and why i asked him if he thinks his life is better than other only because he is going to play GW2. And no he doesn't need to answer it because that is exactly what he meant.
Once again, my discussion is not about GW2 vs TOR. Nope.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Your post while i agree to a point , kinda lacks the information that is needed to show the differences and innovations that both games possess. There's more than companions and a space mini game that makes TOR different. Crew skills, modding system, the cover system for ranged combat and the weapon collision system for melee combat, the full vo and cut scene's, the corruption/facial system, the lightside/darkside morality points system. These things are all things that really have never been seen in a mmorpg before.
GW2 has a no trinity system, VO with cutscene's, the DE system, and the things you mentioned. Both point o games that differ from other games including WOW.
Thanks, I didn't mean to sell STWOR short. I am no avid follower, which makes me keep forgetting core features of the game.
However what people need to keep in mind, when they throw the world clone at everything, which reminds them of WoW, is the fact that the games they are taling about are all found in the mmorpg genre. It doesn't matter who made something first, unless you are apple, who think everthing the produce is new, but who made it successful. Which is also the case for Apple in the IT. (No flame against Apple intended.)
More importantly this genre hasn't evolved much for more than 10 years. Just take a look at DaoC, most of the really good features can be found in other games, and the best have been forgotten. I don't think this is based on laziness of developers, but the huge financial risk behind game development of that scope.
When you hear devs talk about future games, or fans/players talk about their current games, one thing that keeps coming is how much content there is. If you truly want to compete with a game like WoW, many thing they have to produce as much distinct content or more to be competetive right from the start. I don't think that's a healthy approach to the genre. Of course I don't want games to be over in less time they are worth, but who defines what something is worth.
Limbo usually costs 9 Euro and offers about 3 hours of gameplay. This is not much and I was on the fence for a long time, but once you've finished the game (and solved everything on your own), you don't regret the amount you spent on such a short game.
Imo, content is getting too important for mmorpgs these days. Instead devs should focus more on other stuff aswell that will set themselves apart from competitiors and make their product unique. Fortunately, I see a good trend arise from SWTOR and GW2: story-telling. After all, games are the perfect medium for interactive stories and not just some interactive film. You could say that story is content too, but the presentation and structure, the char development and voice over (among other things) are much more important to story-telling than map creation or any other aspect of game design.
Once you as a dev can get into people's mind, make them think, make them shape the world of a game with their minds and supported by visuals, you can leave a good impression and be on par with books. There are not that many scenes in games you keep remembering, because that images got burnt into you with heavy visual support. The most images are big set pieces that leave imagination out in the cold.
Weapons/armor everything is modable in SWTOR and it is both statistical and visual. Infact it gives crafter a lot more importance than any themepark MMO in recent years. In GW2 item modification is not linked with crafting and that is my main point. I consider it a step up over simple crafting of GW2. When i talk about mods in SWTOR i am actually talking about two things in one. So yeah difference is not that significant really. SWTOR is just one step ahead of GW2 in crafting.
Actually, in GW2 you craft various weapons mods/upgrades, so I don't know where you're getting this from. Armor as well.
Tales of Tyria links have been posted on these forums for months now. Observe that this was podcast #7. Factor in the fact that Tyria is in the title of the podcast, and one *should* be able to infer that these guys are pretty big fans of GW2 and that the title is sarcastic.
This is correct. In this episode we tried to lock our Fanboy/fangirl selves away for a bit and take a serious look at what the flaws of the game could be. To that end we asked each host to try to answer the question "Why will GW2 Fail" from a devil's advocate position. This is literally the first thing I point out at the start of the show.
Comments
Yes and that is why i brough up this point to begin with. The point is not if they are how different from WOW because everyone has their own thresh hold and criteria but it does bother me when people take it upon themselves to define what is WOW clone and somehow their word is the only last one. if SWTOR is more closer to WOW according to this thresh hold then maybe GW2 is a lesser clone. *shrugs*
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
.... mmm.... I'll admit, I don't know much about SW:tOR crafting (Other than the part with your companions, and the basic types of skills) (feel free to link me to an article or entry somewhere that exhaustively explains SW:tOR crafting, I'd be happy to read it. Google got me a lot of information about the crafting I already knew about, not the most recent stuff) , but...
... I'm not sure you know much about GW2 crafting either, to be fair. Why do you say that GW2 crafting doesn't have item modification? You're talking about the 'simple crafting' of GW2, but how much do you actually know about it?
Also, I wouldn't call SW:tOR a WoW clone, but I would say that it has all the features of WoW that made me quit playing WoW. (and this is just a personal taste thing. Some people LOVE those features.)
That's usually what people mean when they say WoW clone, anyway. They're saying it has features in common with WoW, that the person dislikes. Nobody (Or hardly anybody) uses WoW clone as a compliment, so it's obviously not a complete matchup of all features.
Personally, there are three main aspects of MMOs that hold the core game together;
1) Combat
2) Content
3) Group Dynamics.
With TOR, all three of these areas are similar to WoW or a traditional MMO. In GW2, they are all very different than a traditional MMO.
Sure, TOR does do things differently when it comes to crafting, minigames, companions etc... But those are extra features that aren't the glue to the MMO as a whole. With GW2, the core principles of the game are very different to your standard MMO. To me, the space combat, the bar brawls, the companions. the cutscenes, the personality systems etc... Mean very little in comparison to the bigger picture. This in my mind, makes GW2 is the more innovative MMO. Some may disagree, but I prioritise these aspects the most when looking at any MMO.
In case content seems too vague, I'm talking about the core objectives in the open world.
Very good point DLuna. As I said on the most recent show, one of the things that turned me off from SWToR is some of the videos I saw showed a UI just filled with names and numbers. It utterly broke any real immersion I could have in that game. It's posible that was just someone's customized UI.
A vanity system you mean. yeh thats not new. Again a TOR fan confusing FLUFF for actual content, next thing you will tell me how innovative VO is. When it comes down to it the TOR crafting mechanics are not really different from WOW crafting mechanics, because TOR is a WOW clone.
Thanks for not reading the rest of the posts and just confirming what i was trying to say all along.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
You mean like that? Yeh I caught what your trying to say, GW2 players are losers and TOR is innovative. Gotcha.
Why exactly are you trolling the GW2 boards with TOR PR. I doubt anyone on this forum gives a crap about TOR.
Hahah lol..what? no that is not what i said. The guy whom i quoted was the one who was saying that who ever doesn't like / play GW2 is living a crappy existence. I am actually against calling any one a loser only on basis of what game they like to play
By the way my discussion wasn't even about GW2 vs TOR because i am going to play both games. But about the double standards often used to label a MMO WOW clone. But can't blame you when you can not even read one quote properly. Every one was being civil and mature till you joined.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
That is civil? Sure his post was a little over the top but then again saying why you want to play GW2 on the GW2 forums isn't out of the ordinary you know. It's not like he came to the Guild wars forums to talk about how much better The Old Republic is than GW2, which is what you seem to want to do. Also if being civil requires one to let you hijack the forums to turn it into another TOR thread then the answer is quite simply no. And that IS what YOU said.
Zylaxx made a claim that people who are satisfied with current MMOs have settled on crap. You can't be surprised that people who disagree with such statement act offended, and you can't deny them right to answer - GW2 forum or not.
Tales of Tyria links have been posted on these forums for months now. Observe that this was podcast #7. Factor in the fact that Tyria is in the title of the podcast, and one *should* be able to infer that these guys are pretty big fans of GW2 and that the title is sarcastic.
That is called a rhetorical question. Do i really need to explain what that question really meant and why i asked him if he thinks his life is better than other only because he is going to play GW2. And no he doesn't need to answer it because that is exactly what he meant.
Once again, my discussion is not about GW2 vs TOR. Nope.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Thanks, I didn't mean to sell STWOR short. I am no avid follower, which makes me keep forgetting core features of the game.
However what people need to keep in mind, when they throw the world clone at everything, which reminds them of WoW, is the fact that the games they are taling about are all found in the mmorpg genre. It doesn't matter who made something first, unless you are apple, who think everthing the produce is new, but who made it successful. Which is also the case for Apple in the IT. (No flame against Apple intended.)
More importantly this genre hasn't evolved much for more than 10 years. Just take a look at DaoC, most of the really good features can be found in other games, and the best have been forgotten. I don't think this is based on laziness of developers, but the huge financial risk behind game development of that scope.
When you hear devs talk about future games, or fans/players talk about their current games, one thing that keeps coming is how much content there is. If you truly want to compete with a game like WoW, many thing they have to produce as much distinct content or more to be competetive right from the start. I don't think that's a healthy approach to the genre. Of course I don't want games to be over in less time they are worth, but who defines what something is worth.
Limbo usually costs 9 Euro and offers about 3 hours of gameplay. This is not much and I was on the fence for a long time, but once you've finished the game (and solved everything on your own), you don't regret the amount you spent on such a short game.
Imo, content is getting too important for mmorpgs these days. Instead devs should focus more on other stuff aswell that will set themselves apart from competitiors and make their product unique. Fortunately, I see a good trend arise from SWTOR and GW2: story-telling. After all, games are the perfect medium for interactive stories and not just some interactive film. You could say that story is content too, but the presentation and structure, the char development and voice over (among other things) are much more important to story-telling than map creation or any other aspect of game design.
Once you as a dev can get into people's mind, make them think, make them shape the world of a game with their minds and supported by visuals, you can leave a good impression and be on par with books. There are not that many scenes in games you keep remembering, because that images got burnt into you with heavy visual support. The most images are big set pieces that leave imagination out in the cold.
Actually, in GW2 you craft various weapons mods/upgrades, so I don't know where you're getting this from. Armor as well.
Oderint, dum metuant.
This is correct. In this episode we tried to lock our Fanboy/fangirl selves away for a bit and take a serious look at what the flaws of the game could be. To that end we asked each host to try to answer the question "Why will GW2 Fail" from a devil's advocate position. This is literally the first thing I point out at the start of the show.