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126 page thread: I will never go back to normal raiding again
GameOvr
Member Posts: 55
126 page post on blizz forums:
LFR: I will never go back to normal raiding again.
And looks like 126 pages of agreement, and blue post says we are so happy, gush gush.
Now I don't know if this sentiment has been expressed before, I have not seen it...
Way to destroy guilds! Guilds that took mediocre players and helped them to improve. And helped them to be better members of the wow community, taught them not to be loot whores and assholes.
Now peeps don't need guilds, and guilds won't be improving the players or the community. Just like the healer mana management class changes that caused so much strife in guilds with cataclysm, blizz again is CLUELESS about the social dynamics of guilds.
Guilds were a major influence of player behavior and loyalty, and bonding between players through meaningful shared experiences.
This will result in nothing but a massive downward plunge in the quality of the wow community that is already at an all time low.
I strongly suspect that this is because even though blizz employees may play the game, they do not experience it as people who have raided and managed guilds for years have experienced the game. That is, as players have experienced the game.
Blizz has again no clue. They could have implemented easy mode without LFR and still kept guilds involved.
Comments
As someone who played WOW guild politics are cutthroat, Larger raiding guilds force people in smaller friend guilds to leave their guild to get gear, you end up with a bunch of A expetive expletives who are total expletives just to get gear. This way removes the expletive players no one wants to play with so you can actually enjoy the game without personalities you cannot stand. Thats why wow is flooded with psudo pro guilds who are really just a strength in number apporach, poaching other players from smaller guilds to get gear, probably has actually ruined more RL relationships than its helped gameplay. No I hate most of the new changes in WOW but this I can get beside, anything that disempowers raiding guilds is good for the game. Maybe they fiinally got the point to stop catering to these clowns.
You seem to equate raiding with guilds. But the two aren't mutually exclusive. In my experience, raiding guilds have never inspired anyone to be better members of the community as a whole. I wanted to experience "end game," but the raid guilds I experienced were always about statistics, rigid schedules, cookie cutter builds, gear, getting ahead, and then standing around in the hub cities showing off your epic loot. Again that's just my experience; I'm sure many other gamers have had great raid guild experiences.
On the other hand, the casual guilds I've been in were friendly, social, much more likely to help me out, and were there generally to have fun. That fun factor is what makes a game worthwhile for me.
With the new raid finder, I can now enjoy aspects of both worlds: I can still be in my casual guild and get into a raid on my schedule, without all the pressure.
I played for 6 1/2 years, was a GM or officer for 5, everything from leveling guild to casual raiding to top raiding guild on 18th ranked server.
And I can can say unconditionally that you are painting all guilds as acting like only the worse guilds. And nobody forces players to stay in those types of guilds and most players don't.
So about the LFR system...are the raids a nerfed version of the normal raid? And is there any difference in the kind of loot dropped? I haven't followed WoW in about 6 months, so I'm not sure how this works. I had heard the raids were kind of dumbed down for the LFR system. Is that true?
If you consider people without vent, and have never raided together can drop deathwing the end boss of the expansion in one session dumbed down, then yes it is.
One person called it a guided tour with free t-shirts at the end. I'm sure it feels just about as much of an accomplishment as going to the zoo too.
Then there is the issue of BURNING through content, what are these players who are satisfied with this going to do after the first couple weeks content is released? A great many will probably just unsub until the next round of free loot.
Yes, they are easier versions of normal raids. Bosses have less health and do less damage. Plus, some mechanics are left out. Loot is a lower iLevel as well.
I think the LFR versions are abit easier then the normal ones yes, and the gear is the same but only abit lower item level
Not playing myself atm but this is what my frined told me, so i might be abit wrong.
Edit: Damn too late :P atleast i was right.
Currently Playing Path of Exile
So they took out the two-tiered raiding system with 10's vs 25's...and then put it right back in again? Oh Blizzard, not tricky at all.
You gotta remember with that 126 page thread that people once cheered the LFG as the greatest system ever created, too. Then six months later...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Raids are still raids, to complete the hardest level of raids and get the best gear you need people that are working at their best as a team. With that said, if you go read all the post, many players are just happy because now the content they were once cut off from is available to them. Not everyone has time for guilds and raiding. All this did was allow those players the opportunity to partake in the content they bought and paid for with their subscription fees without going through al lthe hassle of proving to a guild they are quilified to be in that guild. To many guilds have set requirements for the average casual gamer. That is not the players fault and that is not the guilds fault...that is the game designers fault for require such stringient BS to even participate in the end game content.
Games are meant to be fun, and challenging...they are not to be a second job and impossible. How many guilds actually ever manage to complete the highest of riads? Ever been in WoW and see them advertise for new members? Hey we're Blah, Blah and we're a hardcore raiding guild 11/12 looking for new members - must have a minium of 378 GS and be available for raiding on Mon/Wed/Fri - to join visit blahblahguild.com . Even some of those hardcore guilds never see end game raids finished. Now even they might get to see them.
Games that are designed to be a second job to see all their content are badly designed games. I am glad Blizzard at least has opened up the content to the rest of the WoW subscribers so that not just the top percentage of players can use it - but all of them can now partake of it.
It doesn't take away from anyone. It leaves the hardest raids to those that wish to do them and allows those that don't or those that can't the opportunity to at least get what they paid for.
BTW being in a guild in WoW has some great perks...so I do not see this as hurting guilds in any way.
Well, the good news is that players who wouldn't otherwise get the chance to see that kind of content will get to experience it, even if on a lesser difficulty level. The bad news is that it's yet one more community-killing addition to an mmorpg. LFG tool is the single-worst invention ever, as it has turned many themeparks into nothing more than lobby games, and has killed communities because you can group with people you may never see again due to the cross-server thing. There used to be a time during Vanilla WoW and BC where you actually had to socialize with people to gain access to dungeons and raids.
Furthermore, if I know the WoW community like I think I do, I'd imagine those players that got their Deathwing kill via LFR will get ostracized by the elitists who are using their guild to accomplish the tougher task on normal and heroic mode. And like IceWhite said, this is a not-so-subtle way for Blizzard to reintroduce two tiers of raiding gear again.
Before hard mode that was supposed to cater to 2% of players?
Before one player can wipe the raid mechanics were added to almost every fight?
Before 'normal' raiding mode was so hard that GC said at last blizzcon, People don't want to wipe 100 times to down a boss, we get that.
Before AOE dps was nerfed into the ground?
Before healer mana management was added as a second soft enrage to raiding?
Before all of those things, just about every raiding guild would progress and down bosses and be able to do it with handicapped guild members and friends and family who didn't have elite skills, and have a good time doing it. When raiding was like it was in Vanilla and BC, people did it all the time. Now you see servers with 10-15 guilds making good progression, I remember when 80-100 guilds on a server were doing just as well. And it was hella more fun than it has been since then.
You didn't NEED to min/max, and force players into cookie cutter builds, and make sure that EVERY player had skills. You didn't need to poach players with demonstrated skills, because just about any player could raid. You didn't have gear score, you most likely would just tell a player to get all blues if they were in greens to be able to raid.
Of course there were hard core guilds back then, but it was a race to be first as opposed to the elite guilds being the only ones who could do it all.
The problem is that blizzard never removes their mistakes, they just make new ones thinking they are fixing the old ones.
i'll let you know when i see guilds falling apart over the LFR...i doubt it though since guilds have awesome perks and the only way to get the best gear and weapons and have a chance at mount drops and stuff is by doing regular guild raiding.
LFR gives lower level gear no mount chances and is pretty much just there for people to see the content and perhaps learn something even.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
This bears repeating!
It's an excellent way for those of us who no longer wish to raid 'full time' to still at least see what my raiding guildies are doing. It also allows me to gear up at least somewhat close to them if I ever DO decide to step back in.
Mmmmh, I think you got something wrong here.
Blizzard NEVER took out two-tiered raid. It just moved it from 10/25 to Normal/Heroic
Now there is a third tier.
LFR/Normal/Heroic.
Best gear still come from Heroic and still need a bunch of badass hardcore raiders to do, but LFR is for everyone else.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Are you sure you played WoW back then? You sound like you joined in wrath, becase that timeline is pretty much backwards.
Vanilla had healer mana management acting as a soft enrage, so much so that druids could only raid as resto because their 31 point talent was so important to the other main healers (See: innervate).
Before hard modes, all raiding was "hard modes". I have never heard of a fight taking the world first guilds as long to clear as 40man 4 horsemen. I think that fight alone took what... 2-3 months? less than the top 2% even saw Naxx in vanilla.
1 player wipe raid mechanics have always been around, just look at living bomb in molten core.
People used to wipe 100 times in raids, back in vanilla, thats WHY they made it eaiser, raiding has become more accessible every expansion.
AoE DPS nerfed? Did you know there were days when many DPS didn't have ANY AoE damage? Fan of Knives, Mind Sear, Living bomb, cat form swipe, any kind of shaman AoE. These were all added much later. Vanilla and BC rogues, shadowpiests, ferals and shamans had zero AOE options at all.
Way less people progressed in raiding in vanilla and BC. back when you couldn't gear through "valor" points and had to first do top end 5mans (later heroics) to gear for first tier raiding, then 2nd tier raiding, then finally catch up to the current raid. Do you remember the days when you had to grind the first half of a raid to get special mats to craft resist gear for a single fight that your guild couldn't get past midway through a raid? AQ and BT say "Hi".
To complain that WoW has gotten "harder" is silly, most of all when talking about raiding.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
As a member of a 10man raiding guild (be raiding tonight as it happens) my thoughts on the LFR system is that if anything it's too easy.
I am Firelands geared and my group were 4/7 on Firelands Heriocs when 4.3 was released but I found the LFR a face-roll I only done it once just to check it out and that's all I needed to see, partly as I didin't need gear but also I prefer to do it on my guild.
As to 10man version (normal) that to is too easy, we one shot 3 bosses in our first evening struggled on one but get it down by the end so we cleared 4 bosses in one 3 hour session. Returned the following week when all bosses were unlocked and downed the first 5. Last night we had a go at #6 and finaly we were challenged and we did not get it down.
So from my experience as a 10man guild raider - Dragon soul is by far the easiest raid content blizzard has put out. I feel they created it for LFR and then went back and made minor changes to 10 and 25 man regualr raiding.
Not often to I see Blizzard fail but they rushed this content and it shows. Chances are my guild will be done with this raid by the end of the month... which is to so bad as some of us will be checking out SWTOR.
I am all for none raiders to see the content but not like this, I think they should have tuned up Dragon soul and made avaliable Firelands on LFR and continue that process. New raids for raiders pervious tier for LFR.
Yes and Yes. Easier and lower level gear. However, your LFR tier gear also get the bonus.
I agree with the sentiment.
LFR is GREAT. I really don't want to work WEEKS just to see some content and don't want to deal with loot drama in guilds.
LFR is perfect. In fact, that is WHY i re-sub WOW. Now i can see all the content with no stress.
If you want a challenge, go for hard mode raids. Those are STILL hard.
AOE has been around since 1.4 when I started, and it did not have a max damage cap. So if you didn't know that, quit flapping your gums.
Honestly I don't see this as being hurtful to guilds. Sure they will lose the people who only want to get the lowest raiding gear, because the Looking For Raid gear is definately a lower Item level than the gear you get from normal raiding. But I think of this as a way for people to experience the raids without having to have some set raiding schedule.
Plus, not everyone get a raid spot in guilds. And guildmates can queue LFR together. And you still have the guild perks to hold the guild together.
There is no reason to leave just because a player only want to do LFR.