I have always liked smaller guilds. It is more intimate, you get to know folks and make friends. Good friends.
That gets harder, in my experience, the bigger the guild gets. These small raids are perfect for folks like me who love small guilds. No aspect of the game is off limits to us without the miserable expeirence of a pick up raid (yech).
I love raiding, but on the condition that it is with friends. Eight mans are perfect.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I liked 40 man raids in WoW. Why? Social reasons is the first. We had 55 active members, some of them I liked better then others, but I did meet a lot of new people. Second reason is we did not had a specific raid setup. Ofc we needed a maintank, but DPS, healers offtanks, we could decide ourselves who would bring. The final reason is not a single player was able to wipe us during a boss fight. Disconnection, lag or plain stupidity, you could have one or two deaths.
8 man, it could work. I am not a hardcore raider anymore. So finding 7 others will be easier. However if you want to play with 7 friends, you will have to plan out who is going to play what. Also my biggest concern is that they will turn boss fights into some marioparty. All jump on the same time, do not hit the black tiles while you running 3 circles counter clockwise. Naxxaramas 40 had some interesting (and hard) bossfights. Intelligent fights, which also required some gear and consumables.
The consensus of what I am reading here, if I am not too far off my mark, seems to be that 8 mans are awesome for established groups (when you have regular tank and healer players), but worrisome for PuGs because of a surplus of DPS and folks will have a rough time finding a group?
I think that is a fair assessment, whether the raids are 2 person, or 200 people, I think that ratio will probably be here to stay in MMOs. The thing is, unless the proportions of tanks/heals/dps are vastly different in SWTOR than other MMOs, I am not sure I am getting why 8 mans are worse than 80 man raids. Unless you are simply meaning you only needed one or two tanks and one or two healers for the 80 man raid, thus filling the rest with DPS? ie, you will need 10 tanks and 10 healers for the the remaining 60 DPS for that same 80 people to be able to play 8 man raids.
That is still only 25% of the players playing tanks and healers. I doubt it will be that hard to find the folk.
Now, finding good tanks, and good healers...that could be another question entirely. ;-)
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Originally posted by Joshua69 has anyone done a raid, or seen more exensive raid playing? 8 man raids seem small, i can't figure out if that will be a good thing or a crumy thing? usually raid's are fun for the lots of people you have with you, which can also be a bad thing, what with drama and the whole trying to find that many people to be devoted to raiding. kinda a double edged sword i suppose? Just haven't heard anything about this
Eight man raids work very well in DCUO.
I think they are far superior than 20 mans as everyone has to pull their weight and it's easier to see when someone is lacking in their jobs, as opposed to carrying two or three people who blame the fail on each other.
Eight mans and such make things like parsers and dps meters unnecessary, which is always a good thing for mmos.
8 is cool with me. I'm not a gear person so I'm just in do it once or twice and get the story of the flashpoint/raid. I can see how it could be a double edged sword with elitist gear score types obsessing over each slot. However, with less people required there will be way more groups so the possibility of jumping into a PuG and just going should be pretty good especially at lauch when 2390813831 people will be playing.
I have always liked smaller guilds. It is more intimate, you get to know folks and make friends. Good friends.
That gets harder, in my experience, the bigger the guild gets. These small raids are perfect for folks like me who love small guilds. No aspect of the game is off limits to us without the miserable expeirence of a pick up raid (yech).
I love raiding, but on the condition that it is with friends. Eight mans are perfect.
I like this, although I have always been more happy in larger sized guild, but not insanely large.
has anyone done a raid, or seen more exensive raid playing? 8 man raids seem small, i can't figure out if that will be a good thing or a crumy thing? usually raid's are fun for the lots of people you have with you, which can also be a bad thing, what with drama and the whole trying to find that many people to be devoted to raiding. kinda a double edged sword i suppose? Just haven't heard anything about this
Eight man raids work very well in DCUO.
I think they are far superior than 20 mans as everyone has to pull their weight and it's easier to see when someone is lacking in their jobs, as opposed to carrying two or three people who blame the fail on each other.
Eight mans and such make things like parsers and dps meters unnecessary, which is always a good thing for mmos.
hmm, never really thought if from an aspect of, everyone has to do their ***. Now that I think about it, in WoW 1, sometimes even 2 dps can be slacking off and it doesn't matter, the others can pick it up. So yea, I guess it will be more appealing in that aspect, also with dungeons, 1 dps can be afk or just doing terrible and things cAn stil go o.k. Depending how difficult pulls are etc. 4 man could be really fun. I just hope SWTOR is really hard, i dont like how carebear WoW has gotten.
hmm, never really thought if from an aspect of, everyone has to do their ***. Now that I think about it, in WoW 1, sometimes even 2 dps can be slacking off and it doesn't matter, the others can pick it up. So yea, I guess it will be more appealing in that aspect, also with dungeons, 1 dps can be afk or just doing terrible and things cAn stil go o.k. Depending how difficult pulls are etc. 4 man could be really fun. I just hope SWTOR is really hard, i dont like how carebear WoW has gotten.
The early flashpoints are not hard. However, the difficulty level picks up as your level (or at least use to). I do agree without challenge there is no fun in a game.
Well fun fact here every class apart from Smuggler and Agent has 1 AC that Tank that is 3 AC per side (and as such should be ok as an OT even in DPS role, dunno about Shadow/Assassin though).
The other AC's can heal apart from the Jedi Knight/Sith warrior and even in DPS spec should beable to funtion as a back up/oh**** healer.
The only AC that cant Tank or Heal is the Smuggler Gunslinger and Agent Sniper class in theory these should have the highest possible DPS to make up for it.
IMO the smaller the better. 8 is stil labout 4 to big for me but its clearly alot better then 25.
I hate raiding so anything that reduces its core concepts is a plus in my book.
Then it wouldn't be a raid, it would be a dungeon. And there are a very large number of people who enjoy raiding because it requires more teamwork and strategy than your average dungeon run.
If the game is designed for it then it will work. Smaller groups are always more organised and each player has a more important role. Also smaller groups prevent you from stacking "overpowered" classes as you need to think more about utility.
40 man raids in vanilla wow didn't really work that well, they were laggy, you had a screen full of particle effects and people could slack off and you wouldn't even notice.
The only AC that cant Tank or Heal is the Smuggler Gunslinger and Agent Sniper class in theory these should have the highest possible DPS to make up for it.
You're forgetting Sith Maruader/Jedi Sentinel. The SW and JK can only tank with the Juggernaut or Gaurdian AC. I would agree they should get higher DPS.
Comments
I have always liked smaller guilds. It is more intimate, you get to know folks and make friends. Good friends.
That gets harder, in my experience, the bigger the guild gets. These small raids are perfect for folks like me who love small guilds. No aspect of the game is off limits to us without the miserable expeirence of a pick up raid (yech).
I love raiding, but on the condition that it is with friends. Eight mans are perfect.
Reminds me of my DAOC days when groups had an 8 man limit. Was a good number of folks to run with and it should server raiding in SWTOR well.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I liked 40 man raids in WoW. Why? Social reasons is the first. We had 55 active members, some of them I liked better then others, but I did meet a lot of new people. Second reason is we did not had a specific raid setup. Ofc we needed a maintank, but DPS, healers offtanks, we could decide ourselves who would bring. The final reason is not a single player was able to wipe us during a boss fight. Disconnection, lag or plain stupidity, you could have one or two deaths.
8 man, it could work. I am not a hardcore raider anymore. So finding 7 others will be easier. However if you want to play with 7 friends, you will have to plan out who is going to play what. Also my biggest concern is that they will turn boss fights into some marioparty. All jump on the same time, do not hit the black tiles while you running 3 circles counter clockwise. Naxxaramas 40 had some interesting (and hard) bossfights. Intelligent fights, which also required some gear and consumables.
The consensus of what I am reading here, if I am not too far off my mark, seems to be that 8 mans are awesome for established groups (when you have regular tank and healer players), but worrisome for PuGs because of a surplus of DPS and folks will have a rough time finding a group?
I think that is a fair assessment, whether the raids are 2 person, or 200 people, I think that ratio will probably be here to stay in MMOs. The thing is, unless the proportions of tanks/heals/dps are vastly different in SWTOR than other MMOs, I am not sure I am getting why 8 mans are worse than 80 man raids. Unless you are simply meaning you only needed one or two tanks and one or two healers for the 80 man raid, thus filling the rest with DPS? ie, you will need 10 tanks and 10 healers for the the remaining 60 DPS for that same 80 people to be able to play 8 man raids.
That is still only 25% of the players playing tanks and healers. I doubt it will be that hard to find the folk.
Now, finding good tanks, and good healers...that could be another question entirely. ;-)
IMO the smaller the better. 8 is stil labout 4 to big for me but its clearly alot better then 25.
I hate raiding so anything that reduces its core concepts is a plus in my book.
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Eight man raids work very well in DCUO.
I think they are far superior than 20 mans as everyone has to pull their weight and it's easier to see when someone is lacking in their jobs, as opposed to carrying two or three people who blame the fail on each other.
Eight mans and such make things like parsers and dps meters unnecessary, which is always a good thing for mmos.
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8 is cool with me. I'm not a gear person so I'm just in do it once or twice and get the story of the flashpoint/raid. I can see how it could be a double edged sword with elitist gear score types obsessing over each slot. However, with less people required there will be way more groups so the possibility of jumping into a PuG and just going should be pretty good especially at lauch when 2390813831 people will be playing.
The eng game operations can be run as 16 man or 8 man.
8 Man is much more challenging than the 16 man of the same encounter.
Eight players isn't a raid, it's a large group.
I like this, although I have always been more happy in larger sized guild, but not insanely large.
hmm, never really thought if from an aspect of, everyone has to do their ***. Now that I think about it, in WoW 1, sometimes even 2 dps can be slacking off and it doesn't matter, the others can pick it up. So yea, I guess it will be more appealing in that aspect, also with dungeons, 1 dps can be afk or just doing terrible and things cAn stil go o.k. Depending how difficult pulls are etc. 4 man could be really fun. I just hope SWTOR is really hard, i dont like how carebear WoW has gotten.
The early flashpoints are not hard. However, the difficulty level picks up as your level (or at least use to). I do agree without challenge there is no fun in a game.
Well fun fact here every class apart from Smuggler and Agent has 1 AC that Tank that is 3 AC per side (and as such should be ok as an OT even in DPS role, dunno about Shadow/Assassin though).
The other AC's can heal apart from the Jedi Knight/Sith warrior and even in DPS spec should beable to funtion as a back up/oh**** healer.
The only AC that cant Tank or Heal is the Smuggler Gunslinger and Agent Sniper class in theory these should have the highest possible DPS to make up for it.
Then it wouldn't be a raid, it would be a dungeon. And there are a very large number of people who enjoy raiding because it requires more teamwork and strategy than your average dungeon run.
If the game is designed for it then it will work. Smaller groups are always more organised and each player has a more important role. Also smaller groups prevent you from stacking "overpowered" classes as you need to think more about utility.
40 man raids in vanilla wow didn't really work that well, they were laggy, you had a screen full of particle effects and people could slack off and you wouldn't even notice.
It was the group size for DAoC...
Kinda miss not having a set raid size and just zerging everything =/
You're forgetting Sith Maruader/Jedi Sentinel. The SW and JK can only tank with the Juggernaut or Gaurdian AC. I would agree they should get higher DPS.