The 3dmark Vantage test (GPU score) is the only apples-to-apples test here (both running on the P Preset), but since this is the same chip, a synthetic benchmark is fine for comparison.
Even the fastest 6990M benchmarked by Notebookcheck only manages to just about match the 6850 (the 6990M might be a few hundred points lower, but I'd consider that within the margin of error). It does not match the 6870, which is 2,000 points higher.
And what your card does when overclocked is irrelevant, because I could just as easily overclock a desktop 6850 and do the same thing (only I could overclock it more because Sapphire Trixx unlocks voltage on the 6800 series). The fact that your card goes faster when overclocked isn't a tribute to your card, because all cards do.
Well, let me rephrase that: I invite you to show me a card that contradicts that statement.
I personally wouldn't buy a DELL Alienware, as I've just seen alot of failures. I prefer ASUS, but I wouldn't buy a gaming laptop unless I had a bunch of money to waste. I'm assuming the OP has a need for a laptop, but I'm curious why he would include desktop in the title if he only wants to ask about laptops?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I'm saying that having a little better shader (7%) and TMU (7%) performance and a little worse ROP (8%) and memory (10%) performance means that the cards are on net about even. You do realize that there are several different types of components in a GPU that contribute to gaming performance, don't you?
Very much so. That's why I pointed out the stream processors. They are a huge part of the picture.
As to the 560TI debate, I've always said close to. And indeed my FPS are only slightly behind my brothers 560TI. Of course that is all VERY subjective as well, because of the other components, but for gameplay neither one of us outpaces the other by much. I've also sought out many benchmarks, and I'm often close at 1920x1080 with the settings the same. Usually (+-)5fps. I am talking from what I've seen, not what other people have seen and told me about.
I'm Oced to 800/1100 on my 6990m. Not that much and it's completely stable. I repasted, but I ran it that way a long time before I did and never got more than 81C, so it was fine.
I personally wouldn't buy a DELL Alienware, as I've just seen alot of failures. I prefer ASUS, but I wouldn't buy a gaming laptop unless I had a bunch of money to waste. I'm assuming the OP has a need for a laptop, but I'm curious why he would include desktop in the title if he only wants to ask about laptops?
Alot of people use this as an excuse about laptops,"oh there just way to expensive". This is why I always explain to nvidia fanboys that there products being way overpriced ruins the market at least in mobile sector cause they make most laptops cost so much more then AMD, there a fine brand indeed still even if there overpriced but people constantly bitch about pricing. Either way, you can get some damn fine gaming laptops for under 700$ any more and still be way way more power then the average gamer needs.
Alot of people use this as an excuse about laptops,"oh there just way to expensive". This is why I always explain to nvidia fanboys that there products being way overpriced ruins the market at least in mobile sector cause they make most laptops cost so much more then AMD, there a fine brand indeed still even if there overpriced but people constantly bitch about pricing. Either way, you can get some damn fine gaming laptops for under 700$ any more and still be way way more power then the average gamer needs.
You can get a passable gaming laptop for $700, meaning something that will physically play games, at moderate settings, at low resolutions, at okay framerates, but I can do just as well for $400-$450 with a desktop, and for $600, I could make something vastly more powerful.
That discrepency just gets bigger and bigger as prices go up.
I'm not saying don't get a gaming laptop; they make a lot of sense for some people, including me (though I spent about $1200 for something nicer).
But unless heavy use of that mobility is going to be made, it makes a lot more sense to get a desktop and either pay far less or get a far more capable machine (or both), and I think that describes the majority of users. It certainly describes the majority of users who have sought help on this site over the past couple of years.
Hello Mr OP - how are you today. Im going to ignore everything that has come before and give you my 2 pence worth:
1st question - Do you really need a laptop to play games?
Now i feel this is the 1st question that really needs asking. Why? Well I have been stung by the laptop gaming bug and i spent back in the day £2500 on an Alienware 17" laptop. Guess what, turned up broke, spent 2-3 months getting repaired, 6 months later mobo went, 6 months after than another mobo and 6 months after another........................for the last few years it has been a doorstop or used within my weight lifting routine. Now the ultimate kicker to this is in the 18months it was working, i used it as a laptop maybe half a dozen times, this is properly as a laptop, other than that it sat on my desk.
So why do you need a gaming laptop? Because you will pay much more for the privalage of a laptop compared to the same spec desktop.
I cant debate desktop vs laptop as I only deal with laptop any more, I used to read everything I could bout the latter but none any more, anyway I do have some nice links to share if you want.
First off if you would like to see how a laptop can game check out my youtube channel at http://www.youtube.com/notebookplayer. I have an ideapad Y460 with an ati 5650 card in it. I do recomend checking out lenovo right off the bad for anyone looking to start there foray into the laptop gaming world. You can find them at http://shop.lenovo.com, there currently selling for 649.00$ which is some of the best deal you can currently get on a gaming/multimedia laptop, this particular one is a 14 inch but you can get them in 15.6 inch also and has a dedicated geforce gt 550m graphics card that will play all the newest games for a good 2 years to come at maximum detail. I might as well tell you right off the bat that one of the things you most want to look out for when buying a gaming laptop is not overpaying. One of the worst mistakes to make when buying a gaming laptop is to overpay, there is certainly alot of crappy shit out there and you can fall into a shiity deal real fast if you dont watch yourself.
Without going into to much more, ill just give you some more laptops I like and you can browse through them if you wish.
MSI x460dx, 14 inch laptop with a geforce gt 540, you can get it for 649.00$ on ebay refurbished which is one of the best deals atm iv seen, i want it so bad. Here it is, http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html, its the top one. You can get it new from around 749.00$ on a good day and 800 on msi website. It will play all the newest games to come at full detail for at least 2 years as well.
Another is of course the alienwares which i recommend to everyone, not nessasarily for the first time laptop buyer, never the less here it is http://www.alienware.com/Landings/laptops.aspx. There all great laptops, buying any one of them would be equal since there all great gaming laptops.
Also you wouldnt want to miss out on xoticpc deals either, here is a few of my favorites. sager np 8130, 969.00$, http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8130-clevo-p151hm1-p-2973.html. Has a dedicated goforce gt 560m card which you can upgrade to a 580, ati 6990 for xtra $ wish would add a good deal of more power
Theres plenty more laptops to look at after that, sony vaio ca's at http://store.sony.com, you will always want to check out slickdeals in case you find something you like there, they got great deals, here http://slickdeals.net/deals/computers/.
Theres many more but I listed the ones I like, I would suggest though for a first time buyer not geting into to much money wise currently, as there is alot of crappy crappy shit to get into that wont satisfy you. Spend a little money, get a semi gaming laptop under 700 dollars, use it see how it feels to you, then when you become more of an enthusiast if thats the way you want to go, you can start checking out some stuff that is more then 1k. Call some sales reps and spank some ass if you have to, you will see a few deals here and there if you wait. Anyway my thread was kinda all over the place, didnt help much but I hope I intriged you into at least thinking about laptops as a gaming possability if nothing else. Also it would be much more wise if you wanted to know anything about laptops to speak to people that give a shit about laptops, so a site like techinferno, here http://www.techinferno.com/ would be ideal.
ps: I dont mean to be a compleate shity ass, but this site is so terrible for asking about laptops it makes me sick, just reading what people have to say even in this thread is unbearable to me. Gaming on laptops is a huge business, anyone that tells you your sacraficing anything using a laptop over a desktop, well you can imagine what id say plus there just plain being naieve, No one would say that if they new anything about electronics in general, or at least wouldnt say something as stupid as it because its like more of a personal prefrence not something you would bring up in a debate. They didnt make SWTOR only playable on the most elietist computers for a reason, its because people that say you need some super computer are plain dilusional.
I also want to say no one would bash alienware either, its beyond rediculous not only that, you dont tell other people your a respected member of anything, other people say that on your behalf if you had any nobility in you. But bashing alienware is plain stupid, alienware in mobile gaming terms has led the charge and thousands of gaming laptops has followed in its wake creating a revolution in terms of notebooks. It is like saying general motor is stupid in the car world even though I dont know shit about cars.
Great post and good info. But I revisted this thread I already decided I am going to get a laptop. I'm thinking the m18x alienware. Now earlier in the disscussion I said I wanted to work with a 1000$ budget. Now I decided I'm just going to save more to get more an be more patient. I think I'm about ready to go to the laptop side. I want something I can take around. Or play anywhere in my house, or even work. I like The idea of portiable gaming. Don't get me wrong though, I'm still going to build a desktop. Just concentraited on a Laptop first. So all ideas from everyone on trusted places to shop with maybe some great deals and some pointers on both laptops and desktops is awesome and I appreciate everyone's help. Ps sorry for typos and poor spelling. I am posting through my phone and its hard to type. Lol ¦
Too many people get down to the slightest detail and nitpick too much, if you do get a gaming laptop, I would definitely shoot for the 6990M or gtx580M .. As you can see in my sig. I use a quite beefy laptop for messing around with while on down time at my job (which I have a lot) Portability is great and the strength in a mid-high range notebook is plenty fine for any game. Now if you're some elitist and want completely max settings on 3 monitor set up, well then have at a desktop. If you have money to spend, which 1000-1500 is plenty- grab a laptop if you're okay with it. Of course a desktop for the same price will double it's performance.. but do you really need that? Game's are for the most part being designed piggy-backing console games anyways, so you're 6990M or gtx 580M will not choke for years to come. Laptop gaming is HUGE, I personally know twice as many 'mobile' gamers than I do stay at home desktop players. Especially if you travel and work away from home often.
*Corsair Obsidian Series 650D *i5-2500K OC'd ~ 4.5 *Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 mother board * Radeon HD 7970 *8GB (4GBx2) 1600MHz Kingston HyperX *240GB Corsair Force GT Series SATA-III SSD
Great post and good info. But I revisted this thread I already decided I am going to get a laptop. I'm thinking the m18x alienware. Now earlier in the disscussion I said I wanted to work with a 1000$ budget. Now I decided I'm just going to save more to get more an be more patient. I think I'm about ready to go to the laptop side. I want something I can take around. Or play anywhere in my house, or even work. I like The idea of portiable gaming. Don't get me wrong though, I'm still going to build a desktop. Just concentraited on a Laptop first. So all ideas from everyone on trusted places to shop with maybe some great deals and some pointers on both laptops and desktops is awesome and I appreciate everyone's help. Ps sorry for typos and poor spelling. I am posting through my phone and its hard to type. Lol ¦
What you should get depends on how you're going to use it. If you live in hotels two months per year on business travel, then certainly, grab a high end gaming laptop. If it's going to sit at home on your desk and get used like a desktop, then you're vastly better off with a gaming desktop. The laptop form factor brings some severe drawbacks in performance, price, reliability, and some other things in order to provide the portability, so if you don't need the portability then a gaming laptop is a bad idea.
Note also that even if you genuinely need both a gaming machine and a laptop, it doesn't follow that a gaming laptop makes sense for you. The gaming laptop only makes sense if you're going to play games on the laptop while away from home. It sounds like you might, but many people won't.
Also, high end gaming laptops really aren't that portable. If you want to carry them around once per week to go play games somewhere else, weighing 10 lbs isn't such a big problem. If you're expecting it to be a lightweight, portable laptop that you can carry around all the time, and can just happen to play games, you're going to be disappointed.
I divide gaming laptops into five tiers.
First is those with Llano integrated graphics. These are cheap ($500-$700), as portable as you'd expect in a laptop, and can run games pretty well at moderate settings.
Next is those with a relatively low end discrete card. These are somewhat more expensive ($600-$1000), but perform somewhere between worse than Llano integrated graphics to not really that much better than Llano. It does get you all of the traditional drawbacks of a gaming laptop, however. This is mostly what Eycel will point you to, but as a class of products, it's nearly obsolete.
Third is a mid-range card such as a Radeon HD 6870M or GeForce GTX 560M, together with a Sandy Bridge Core i7 2630QM or 2670QM processor. These go for about $1200-1600, and will run most games at high but not necessarily max settings. There are a lot of options available here.
Fourth is a high end laptop card, which right now, really means a Radeon HD 6990M, and together with a Core i7 2670QM or better processor. These go for about $1500-$2200, but do manage to give you gaming performance like a $1000 gaming desktop. Nvidia is not competitive in this segment, though they do have a GeForce GTX 580M for their fanboys to buy. There are fewer choices here, but you can find a lot of companies that rebrand a Clevo P150HM or P170HM, or the Alienware M17x.
Finally, there is two high end Radeon HD 6990M cards in CrossFire. The only option I'm aware of here is the Alienware M18x. There, you're looking at about $2500+. Add an SSD and you can get the performance of a $1500 gaming laptop in a laptop form factor, but it's going to be large and heavy, run hot, and not necessarily be all that reliable. If you do want to go here, then make sure you get the Radeon HD 6990M cards, and not the Nvidia options. With the upgrades that you'd want in order for it to be high end, you're looking at a price tag around $3000.
Note also that for all but the first class, you're looking at maybe several months before you get "doesn't make a bit of sense to buy new" obsolescence. Ivy Bridge (Intel CPUs) and Southern Islands (AMD video cards) are coming early to mid next year, and those are both full node die shrinks as compared to current products. That may get you 40% more performance in the same thermal envelope as existing products, and for the same price tag.
For desktops, there isn't nearly so much of importance coming in the near future. AMD's Southern Islands will be a big deal at the high end, and probably launches in a month or so. Intel's Ivy Bridge will be a slight boost in processor performance, but as desktops aren't so power-constrained, it will only be a slight boost. Desktops also let you upgrade parts. If you were to buy either a desktop or a laptop today, and then the other of the two six months from now, it would make a lot more sense to get the desktop today and the laptop later than the other way around, unless you need a gaming laptop in particular right now.
I have jjust ordered the MSI GT780 DX from the US (its over £600 cheaper from US than the UK even after import duty and shipping and comes with the backlit keyboard which the uk model doesnt) after a friend bought one. They are retailing at $1549 from BTOTech and they have an excellent reputation and very fast fulfilment times. Works out £1280 for a good gamin laptop and u get far better bang for your buck than an alienware. The sounds system , keyboard and the matte finish screen are a sight to behold.
Greatness is difficult to appreciate from close up. The great mountain on the horizon is only the ground when you are standing on it.
Comments
No, you said it was practically a Geforce GTX 560 Ti, which your card most certainly does not reach any kind of parity of performance with.
And even then, your statements are not exactly well supported by any kind of evidence.
Really, look at benchmarks of the 6850/70 and 6990M
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6990M.57308.0.html
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/20
The 3dmark Vantage test (GPU score) is the only apples-to-apples test here (both running on the P Preset), but since this is the same chip, a synthetic benchmark is fine for comparison.
Even the fastest 6990M benchmarked by Notebookcheck only manages to just about match the 6850 (the 6990M might be a few hundred points lower, but I'd consider that within the margin of error). It does not match the 6870, which is 2,000 points higher.
And what your card does when overclocked is irrelevant, because I could just as easily overclock a desktop 6850 and do the same thing (only I could overclock it more because Sapphire Trixx unlocks voltage on the 6800 series). The fact that your card goes faster when overclocked isn't a tribute to your card, because all cards do.
Well, let me rephrase that: I invite you to show me a card that contradicts that statement.
I personally wouldn't buy a DELL Alienware, as I've just seen alot of failures. I prefer ASUS, but I wouldn't buy a gaming laptop unless I had a bunch of money to waste. I'm assuming the OP has a need for a laptop, but I'm curious why he would include desktop in the title if he only wants to ask about laptops?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Very much so. That's why I pointed out the stream processors. They are a huge part of the picture.
As to the 560TI debate, I've always said close to. And indeed my FPS are only slightly behind my brothers 560TI. Of course that is all VERY subjective as well, because of the other components, but for gameplay neither one of us outpaces the other by much. I've also sought out many benchmarks, and I'm often close at 1920x1080 with the settings the same. Usually (+-)5fps. I am talking from what I've seen, not what other people have seen and told me about.
I'm Oced to 800/1100 on my 6990m. Not that much and it's completely stable. I repasted, but I ran it that way a long time before I did and never got more than 81C, so it was fine.
Alot of people use this as an excuse about laptops,"oh there just way to expensive". This is why I always explain to nvidia fanboys that there products being way overpriced ruins the market at least in mobile sector cause they make most laptops cost so much more then AMD, there a fine brand indeed still even if there overpriced but people constantly bitch about pricing. Either way, you can get some damn fine gaming laptops for under 700$ any more and still be way way more power then the average gamer needs.
You can get a passable gaming laptop for $700, meaning something that will physically play games, at moderate settings, at low resolutions, at okay framerates, but I can do just as well for $400-$450 with a desktop, and for $600, I could make something vastly more powerful.
That discrepency just gets bigger and bigger as prices go up.
I'm not saying don't get a gaming laptop; they make a lot of sense for some people, including me (though I spent about $1200 for something nicer).
But unless heavy use of that mobility is going to be made, it makes a lot more sense to get a desktop and either pay far less or get a far more capable machine (or both), and I think that describes the majority of users. It certainly describes the majority of users who have sought help on this site over the past couple of years.
Hello Mr OP - how are you today. Im going to ignore everything that has come before and give you my 2 pence worth:
1st question - Do you really need a laptop to play games?
Now i feel this is the 1st question that really needs asking. Why? Well I have been stung by the laptop gaming bug and i spent back in the day £2500 on an Alienware 17" laptop. Guess what, turned up broke, spent 2-3 months getting repaired, 6 months later mobo went, 6 months after than another mobo and 6 months after another........................for the last few years it has been a doorstop or used within my weight lifting routine. Now the ultimate kicker to this is in the 18months it was working, i used it as a laptop maybe half a dozen times, this is properly as a laptop, other than that it sat on my desk.
So why do you need a gaming laptop? Because you will pay much more for the privalage of a laptop compared to the same spec desktop.
Too many people get down to the slightest detail and nitpick too much, if you do get a gaming laptop, I would definitely shoot for the 6990M or gtx580M .. As you can see in my sig. I use a quite beefy laptop for messing around with while on down time at my job (which I have a lot) Portability is great and the strength in a mid-high range notebook is plenty fine for any game. Now if you're some elitist and want completely max settings on 3 monitor set up, well then have at a desktop. If you have money to spend, which 1000-1500 is plenty- grab a laptop if you're okay with it. Of course a desktop for the same price will double it's performance.. but do you really need that? Game's are for the most part being designed piggy-backing console games anyways, so you're 6990M or gtx 580M will not choke for years to come. Laptop gaming is HUGE, I personally know twice as many 'mobile' gamers than I do stay at home desktop players. Especially if you travel and work away from home often.
*Corsair Obsidian Series 650D *i5-2500K OC'd ~ 4.5
*Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 mother board
* Radeon HD 7970
*8GB (4GBx2) 1600MHz Kingston HyperX
*240GB Corsair Force GT Series SATA-III SSD
What you should get depends on how you're going to use it. If you live in hotels two months per year on business travel, then certainly, grab a high end gaming laptop. If it's going to sit at home on your desk and get used like a desktop, then you're vastly better off with a gaming desktop. The laptop form factor brings some severe drawbacks in performance, price, reliability, and some other things in order to provide the portability, so if you don't need the portability then a gaming laptop is a bad idea.
Note also that even if you genuinely need both a gaming machine and a laptop, it doesn't follow that a gaming laptop makes sense for you. The gaming laptop only makes sense if you're going to play games on the laptop while away from home. It sounds like you might, but many people won't.
Also, high end gaming laptops really aren't that portable. If you want to carry them around once per week to go play games somewhere else, weighing 10 lbs isn't such a big problem. If you're expecting it to be a lightweight, portable laptop that you can carry around all the time, and can just happen to play games, you're going to be disappointed.
I divide gaming laptops into five tiers.
First is those with Llano integrated graphics. These are cheap ($500-$700), as portable as you'd expect in a laptop, and can run games pretty well at moderate settings.
Next is those with a relatively low end discrete card. These are somewhat more expensive ($600-$1000), but perform somewhere between worse than Llano integrated graphics to not really that much better than Llano. It does get you all of the traditional drawbacks of a gaming laptop, however. This is mostly what Eycel will point you to, but as a class of products, it's nearly obsolete.
Third is a mid-range card such as a Radeon HD 6870M or GeForce GTX 560M, together with a Sandy Bridge Core i7 2630QM or 2670QM processor. These go for about $1200-1600, and will run most games at high but not necessarily max settings. There are a lot of options available here.
Fourth is a high end laptop card, which right now, really means a Radeon HD 6990M, and together with a Core i7 2670QM or better processor. These go for about $1500-$2200, but do manage to give you gaming performance like a $1000 gaming desktop. Nvidia is not competitive in this segment, though they do have a GeForce GTX 580M for their fanboys to buy. There are fewer choices here, but you can find a lot of companies that rebrand a Clevo P150HM or P170HM, or the Alienware M17x.
Finally, there is two high end Radeon HD 6990M cards in CrossFire. The only option I'm aware of here is the Alienware M18x. There, you're looking at about $2500+. Add an SSD and you can get the performance of a $1500 gaming laptop in a laptop form factor, but it's going to be large and heavy, run hot, and not necessarily be all that reliable. If you do want to go here, then make sure you get the Radeon HD 6990M cards, and not the Nvidia options. With the upgrades that you'd want in order for it to be high end, you're looking at a price tag around $3000.
Note also that for all but the first class, you're looking at maybe several months before you get "doesn't make a bit of sense to buy new" obsolescence. Ivy Bridge (Intel CPUs) and Southern Islands (AMD video cards) are coming early to mid next year, and those are both full node die shrinks as compared to current products. That may get you 40% more performance in the same thermal envelope as existing products, and for the same price tag.
For desktops, there isn't nearly so much of importance coming in the near future. AMD's Southern Islands will be a big deal at the high end, and probably launches in a month or so. Intel's Ivy Bridge will be a slight boost in processor performance, but as desktops aren't so power-constrained, it will only be a slight boost. Desktops also let you upgrade parts. If you were to buy either a desktop or a laptop today, and then the other of the two six months from now, it would make a lot more sense to get the desktop today and the laptop later than the other way around, unless you need a gaming laptop in particular right now.
I have jjust ordered the MSI GT780 DX from the US (its over £600 cheaper from US than the UK even after import duty and shipping and comes with the backlit keyboard which the uk model doesnt) after a friend bought one. They are retailing at $1549 from BTOTech and they have an excellent reputation and very fast fulfilment times. Works out £1280 for a good gamin laptop and u get far better bang for your buck than an alienware. The sounds system , keyboard and the matte finish screen are a sight to behold.
Greatness is difficult to appreciate from close up. The great mountain on the horizon is only the ground when you are standing on it.