Does Anet cater to Casuals more so than Blizzard,Trion,Bioware?

MMOExposed · December 2011

Does Anet cater to Casuals more so than Blizzard,Trion,Bioware?

I notice that their seems to be a growing rage at developers like Blizzard,Trion,Bioware, for their casual contents interest, but I havnt seen this
same kind of ridicule towards Anet, with their past and upcoming projects.

but why has Anet slip this casual ridicule? Is there something that the MMORPG community sees Anet doing that counters the casual ridicule we see other developers face?

Quizzical · December 2011

Guild Wars lets you log on whenever you like, do whatever content you want, and then log off within a reasonable amount of time. WoW doesn't let you do that. Neither does Rift. It's exceedingly unlikely that SWTOR will, either.

ArenaNet thus made Guild Wars very casual-friendly, which is something that the other companies you mention didn't do in their respective games. Anytime you hear someone talk about "casual raiding", that's a dead giveaway that they're completely clueless about casual gameplay.

Now, WoW is pretty casual-friendly outside of the level cap. I'm not sure about Rift and SWTOR on that count. But at the level cap, that changes drastically. In Guild Wars, it never does change. Difficulty may scale up, but Guild Wars never demands that you devote your life to the game in order to advance.

fony · December 2011

hmm. you can still lose and die vs regular mobs in GW. you can die to regular mobs in GW2. the first dungeon so far was hard enough to cause several hours of wiping. but i guess not having to grind makes it more casual than WoW.

BizkitNL · December 2011

So far, Anet has been looking at the downsides of MMOs these days (Notably WoW), and finds ways to remedy them. On top of making a new game offcourse.

How this caters to casuals and not hardcore players......I'm not seeing it.

nyxxis · December 2011

GW2 will be way more casual gamer friendly than most out there.

No sub fees makes it more casual, you wont be trying to get the most for your monthly cash output.

If you can only log in 5 hours a week, with GW2 you lose nothing with a days worth of game play a month. With WoW, Rift, SWTOR your basiclly throwing away 15 bucks a month for that same amount of play time.

As for gameplay, from what ive seen in the vids, there will be a bit of a learning curve and will take some time before you can play truely casually. Just my humble opinion though.

Ambros123 · December 2011

Depends on the context

Do they cater to a mechanic that provides a fun enviroement where MMOing does become a second job? Sure.

Do they submit to QQing and make content difficutly a faceroll to appease those who lack total skill? Absolutely not.

ANet has their own set of philosophies so it is impossible to claim them catering to casuals in your context. The don't beleive in grinding and will flat out refuse that kind of mechanic in their came, people will interpet that in different ways.

cali59 · December 2011

Originally posted by nyxxis
GW2 will be way more casual gamer friendly than most out there.

No sub fees makes it more casual, you wont be trying to get the most for your monthly cash output.

If you can only log in 5 hours a week, with GW2 you lose nothing with a days worth of game play a month. With WoW, Rift, SWTOR your basiclly throwing away 15 bucks a month for that same amount of play time.

As for gameplay, from what ive seen in the vids, there will be a bit of a learning curve and will take some time before you can play truely casually. Just my humble opinion though.

I totally agree and I also think it goes further than that. The gameplay itself lends itself to being casual. Take dynamic events. You don't have to pick up or turn in for them. With the exception of elite events, they're geared towards ungrouped people. You can get a gold, silver or bronze reward for how much you participate, so it's not all or nothing like a quest.

They run in cycles and the game automatically mentors you down in level if you do a lower level one so the entire world's content is open to you. The majority of this content will be easier (doing a level 5 event mentors you to the equivalent of a level 8) but still rewarding.

There's instant teleportation to anywhere you've already unlocked.

A game like WoW, if you don't have long, you fly out of the city to where the dailies are, collect them, do a few, go turn them in. In GW2, you immediately port anywhere, find content that even be different from what you saw last time, jump into the action immediately, and get a lesser reward even if you have to log off in the middle of it.

Or world PVP running 24/7 with no player limit so you can always immediately join that.

That's not even getting into things like no tiered gear progression, so you can get statistically good stuff through a variety of means without raiding.

That's also not to say that there won't be elite events and very hard dungeons for people who do want a challenge.

But in terms of what's readily available to people on a short time frame, I really think it will be the most casual friendly MMO ever.

gaeanprayer · December 2011

Because Anet has made their past game and their current one in a way that appeals to both styles of gameplay. They're both easy to hop in and enjoy whenever you choose to. Like someone else said, there's no grind (level or gear-wise) to make you feel like you have to devote your life to it. There are plenty of reasons to continue playing, but you could easily put the game down for a few months, come back to it and pick up where you left of without worrying that, now, you'll never catch up to your old friends.

But then there's the hardcore content. The dungeons are famously difficult, the end-game bosses take forever for people to figure out strategies for (at least in GW1, don't know much about final bosses in GW2 yet, but years later the Gate of Madness mission in GW1 still drives people to tears), and then there's the PvP, the achievements, etc., which ~do~ take a lot of time and effort to complete. It's there for people that want to do them, but the rewards aren't so far and above that of more casual gameplay that everyone else is left behind.

There were parts of GW1 that you could get to whenever you felt like, and others that took extreme planning, strategy and coordination. But whichever you went for, you had that choice. Except for some of the harder storyline missions, nothing is "required" to "complete" the game, it's all icing on the cake, so people have the freedom to pursue whatever they're most interested in, and leave the rest for another time. If ever.

MMOExposed · December 2011

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Because Anet has made their past game and their current one in a way that appeals to both styles of gameplay. They're both easy to hop in and enjoy whenever you choose to. Like someone else said, there's no grind (level or gear-wise) to make you feel like you have to devote your life to it. There are plenty of reasons to continue playing, but you could easily put the game down for a few months, come back to it and pick up where you left of without worrying that, now, you'll never catch up to your old friends.
But then there's the hardcore content. The dungeons are famously difficult, the end-game bosses take forever for people to figure out strategies for (at least in GW1, don't know much about final bosses in GW2 yet, but years later the Gate of Madness mission in GW1 still drives people to tears), and then there's the PvP, the achievements, etc., which ~do~ take a lot of time and effort to complete. It's there for people that want to do them, but the rewards aren't so far and above that of more casual gameplay that everyone else is left behind.
There were parts of GW1 that you could get to whenever you felt like, and others that took extreme planning, strategy and coordination. But whichever you went for, you had that choice. Except for some of the harder storyline missions, nothing is "required" to "complete" the game, it's all icing on the cake, so people have the freedom to pursue whatever they're most interested in, and leave the rest for another time. If ever.

so why is it that Anet doesn't face the same ridicule that other developer get when they make both casual contents and hardcore contents? I hear people say that those other developers are dumbing down their game for having both contents styles. But I never hear this same reaction from Anet doing the same thing and trying to please both communities.

cali59 · December 2011

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Because Anet has made their past game and their current one in a way that appeals to both styles of gameplay. They're both easy to hop in and enjoy whenever you choose to. Like someone else said, there's no grind (level or gear-wise) to make you feel like you have to devote your life to it. There are plenty of reasons to continue playing, but you could easily put the game down for a few months, come back to it and pick up where you left of without worrying that, now, you'll never catch up to your old friends.

But then there's the hardcore content. The dungeons are famously difficult, the end-game bosses take forever for people to figure out strategies for (at least in GW1, don't know much about final bosses in GW2 yet, but years later the Gate of Madness mission in GW1 still drives people to tears), and then there's the PvP, the achievements, etc., which ~do~ take a lot of time and effort to complete. It's there for people that want to do them, but the rewards aren't so far and above that of more casual gameplay that everyone else is left behind.

There were parts of GW1 that you could get to whenever you felt like, and others that took extreme planning, strategy and coordination. But whichever you went for, you had that choice. Except for some of the harder storyline missions, nothing is "required" to "complete" the game, it's all icing on the cake, so people have the freedom to pursue whatever they're most interested in, and leave the rest for another time. If ever.

so why is it that Anet doesn't face the same ridicule that other developer get when they make both casual contents and hardcore contents? I hear people say that those other developers are dumbing down their game for having both contents styles. But I never hear this same reaction from Anet doing the same thing and trying to please both communities.

Speaking specifically to WoW, I think the backlash comes from the very obvious things they've done to make the game more casual friendly. Reducing raid size down from 40 to 10/25. Going even further than that and making it so that 10s give the same rewards as 25s. Putting in normal and heroic versions of the same raids (and normal and hard modes) so that it's easier to at least see the content. Letting people get raid quality gear through dungeon grinding for tokens. Removing attunements people had needed to access higher end content. Getting rid of elite mobs in world zones.

Guild Wars has gotten some backlash too. Being able to take a full party of heroes is one thing. Reducing the difficulty of normal mode when they introduced hard mode is another. As to why the backlash isn't so vocal, it's probably for a couple reasons. The changes for GW are less obvious, further in the past, don't focus on a raiding community which is likely to be more vocal.

With GW2, I look at it like it is what it is. They're making a very accessible game right from the start. But it's also not out yet. The dungeons are supposed to be very hard in explorable mode. Who knows if they won't end up having to start nerfing them if people complain about the difficulty. If they do, you can bet there will be an anti-casual backlash then.

MMOExposed · December 2011

Originally posted by cali59

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Because Anet has made their past game and their current one in a way that appeals to both styles of gameplay. They're both easy to hop in and enjoy whenever you choose to. Like someone else said, there's no grind (level or gear-wise) to make you feel like you have to devote your life to it. There are plenty of reasons to continue playing, but you could easily put the game down for a few months, come back to it and pick up where you left of without worrying that, now, you'll never catch up to your old friends.
But then there's the hardcore content. The dungeons are famously difficult, the end-game bosses take forever for people to figure out strategies for (at least in GW1, don't know much about final bosses in GW2 yet, but years later the Gate of Madness mission in GW1 still drives people to tears), and then there's the PvP, the achievements, etc., which ~do~ take a lot of time and effort to complete. It's there for people that want to do them, but the rewards aren't so far and above that of more casual gameplay that everyone else is left behind.
There were parts of GW1 that you could get to whenever you felt like, and others that took extreme planning, strategy and coordination. But whichever you went for, you had that choice. Except for some of the harder storyline missions, nothing is "required" to "complete" the game, it's all icing on the cake, so people have the freedom to pursue whatever they're most interested in, and leave the rest for another time. If ever.

so why is it that Anet doesn't face the same ridicule that other developer get when they make both casual contents and hardcore contents? I hear people say that those other developers are dumbing down their game for having both contents styles. But I never hear this same reaction from Anet doing the same thing and trying to please both communities.

Speaking specifically to WoW, I think the backlash comes from the very obvious things they've done to make the game more casual friendly. Reducing raid size down from 40 to 10/25. Going even further than that and making it so that 10s give the same rewards as 25s. Putting in normal and heroic versions of the same raids (and normal and hard modes) so that it's easier to at least see the content. Letting people get raid quality gear through dungeon grinding for tokens. Removing attunements people had needed to access higher end content. Getting rid of elite mobs in world zones.

Guild Wars has gotten some backlash too. Being able to take a full party of heroes is one thing. Reducing the difficulty of normal mode when they introduced hard mode is another. As to why the backlash isn't so vocal, it's probably for a couple reasons. The changes for GW are less obvious, further in the past, don't focus on a raiding community which is likely to be more vocal.

With GW2, I look at it like it is what it is. They're making a very accessible game right from the start. But it's also not out yet. The dungeons are supposed to be very hard in explorable mode. Who knows if they won't end up having to start nerfing them if people complain about the difficulty. If they do, you can bet there will be an anti-casual backlash then.

this pretty much answers my question. Thanks

Torik · December 2011

Originally posted by MMOExposed

so why is it that Anet doesn't face the same ridicule that other developer get when they make both casual contents and hardcore contents? I hear people say that those other developers are dumbing down their game for having both contents styles. But I never hear this same reaction from Anet doing the same thing and trying to please both communities.

Guild Wars does not have subscription so people do not feel as entitled to whine about it.

Let's not forget that even if WoW let you play chess against a live Grandmaster, people would still accuse Blizzard of dumbing the game down.

Sagasaint · December 2011

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Because Anet has made their past game and their current one in a way that appeals to both styles of gameplay. They're both easy to hop in and enjoy whenever you choose to. Like someone else said, there's no grind (level or gear-wise) to make you feel like you have to devote your life to it. There are plenty of reasons to continue playing, but you could easily put the game down for a few months, come back to it and pick up where you left of without worrying that, now, you'll never catch up to your old friends.

But then there's the hardcore content. The dungeons are famously difficult, the end-game bosses take forever for people to figure out strategies for (at least in GW1, don't know much about final bosses in GW2 yet, but years later the Gate of Madness mission in GW1 still drives people to tears), and then there's the PvP, the achievements, etc., which ~do~ take a lot of time and effort to complete. It's there for people that want to do them, but the rewards aren't so far and above that of more casual gameplay that everyone else is left behind.

There were parts of GW1 that you could get to whenever you felt like, and others that took extreme planning, strategy and coordination. But whichever you went for, you had that choice. Except for some of the harder storyline missions, nothing is "required" to "complete" the game, it's all icing on the cake, so people have the freedom to pursue whatever they're most interested in, and leave the rest for another time. If ever.

so why is it that Anet doesn't face the same ridicule that other developer get when they make both casual contents and hardcore contents? I hear people say that those other developers are dumbing down their game for having both contents styles. But I never hear this same reaction from Anet doing the same thing and trying to please both communities.

someone up there already answered that for you, but you chose to ignore it...hardly surprising, just a quick look at your post history and everyone can see the hidden agenda behind all youtr posts

anyway......because ANet dont give to whines about difficult content, dont tweak stuff to appease to the lowest common denominator, and dont make expansions that render a former challegenging activity a mindless tank and spank.

all the things that WoW does, you know.

MMOExposed · December 2011

Originally posted by Sagasaint

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Because Anet has made their past game and their current one in a way that appeals to both styles of gameplay. They're both easy to hop in and enjoy whenever you choose to. Like someone else said, there's no grind (level or gear-wise) to make you feel like you have to devote your life to it. There are plenty of reasons to continue playing, but you could easily put the game down for a few months, come back to it and pick up where you left of without worrying that, now, you'll never catch up to your old friends.
But then there's the hardcore content. The dungeons are famously difficult, the end-game bosses take forever for people to figure out strategies for (at least in GW1, don't know much about final bosses in GW2 yet, but years later the Gate of Madness mission in GW1 still drives people to tears), and then there's the PvP, the achievements, etc., which ~do~ take a lot of time and effort to complete. It's there for people that want to do them, but the rewards aren't so far and above that of more casual gameplay that everyone else is left behind.
There were parts of GW1 that you could get to whenever you felt like, and others that took extreme planning, strategy and coordination. But whichever you went for, you had that choice. Except for some of the harder storyline missions, nothing is "required" to "complete" the game, it's all icing on the cake, so people have the freedom to pursue whatever they're most interested in, and leave the rest for another time. If ever.

so why is it that Anet doesn't face the same ridicule that other developer get when they make both casual contents and hardcore contents? I hear people say that those other developers are dumbing down their game for having both contents styles. But I never hear this same reaction from Anet doing the same thing and trying to please both communities.

someone up there already answered that for you, but you chose to ignore it...hardly surprising, just a quick look at your post history and everyone can see the hidden agenda behind all youtr posts

anyway......because ANet dont give to whines about difficult content, dont tweak stuff to appease to the lowest common denominator, and dont make expansions that render a former challegenging activity a mindless tank and spank.

all the things that WoW does, you know.

I am curious, that since you say anybody can see my hidden agenda. Please share with me what that is

DLuna · December 2011

Yes and no.

Guild Wars is one of the hardest multiplayer online games I've played. But at the same time, requires a low amount of time investment since the content is skill > gear, thus little grind involved. Especially vanilla prophecies where each prof had a lower amount of abilities that were currently balanced around that content exclusively.

Will GW2 be any different? Hard to say. Skill > gear still seems very likely and dungeon testing reports make them sound extremely hard.

Quizzical · December 2011

Originally posted by MMOExposed

so why is it that Anet doesn't face the same ridicule that other developer get when they make both casual contents and hardcore contents? I hear people say that those other developers are dumbing down their game for having both contents styles. But I never hear this same reaction from Anet doing the same thing and trying to please both communities.

Other companies say, you can be casual and we'll make some stuff for you to do, but we'll gimp you and only let hardcore players get the good stuff. And they'll give hardcore players epics to show off, to rub it in the face of casuals that they're forever gimped and can never compete.

In Guild Wars, ArenaNet didn't do that. If you only play an hour per week, you can still get everything and do everything. Everything. It may take decades to actually finish everything, but it will still be there and you can still do it. Furthermore, it won't take that long before there isn't much of a power gap between you and the hardcore players.

Now, Guild Wars has a lot to offer hardcore players as well. It's hardly a game that caters only to casuals. But take any argument as to why WoW or Rift or SWTOR aren't casual friendly, and it will probably apply to the other two of those games, but not to Guild Wars. That's why it's far more casual friendly.

Volkon · December 2011

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Does Anet cater to Casuals more so than Blizzard,Trion,Bioware?

I notice that their seems to be a growing rage at developers like Blizzard,Trion,Bioware, for their casual contents interest, but I havnt seen this

same kind of ridicule towards Anet, with their past and upcoming projects.

but why has Anet slip this casual ridicule? Is there something that the MMORPG community sees Anet doing that counters the casual ridicule we see other developers face?

It's not that ArenaNet is catering to casual players. They're simply removing the necessity to become an elitely geared player. They've eliminated required grind, required raiding, etc. Casual/Elite no longer refers to your gear or whether or not your dedicated raid party made it to the last boss. It's now about your skills. If you wish to take the time and effort into mastering your chosen profession you can become, due to that mastery, respected as an elite player. However if you don't, you'll still be able to fully enjoy the game at your own pace.

ThaneUlfgar · December 2011

The better question is- who cares?

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