I'm expecting this to be one of the biggest launches in history if not the biggest, and i'm expecting GW2 to surpass this even.
I seriously doubt that. Mainly because GW2 is completely unknown outside of MMORPG circles.
If it came out tomorrow then sure, but there's zero point in doing a major advertising campaign for a game which doesn't even have a release date or is not yet into beta. Best bet is focus the funds on development and just let the hype train slowly gain speed through word of mouth.
You can bet that Arenanet (or NCsoft) will advertise the heck out of this game once they are comfortable enough to say "Right, the game will release on xx/xx/xx".
At that point, I would expect the number of people who know about GW2 to increase dramatically.
GW 2 will probably sell more than SW:TOR but not because of the IP but because one requires subscription and the other one is, most likely, P2P. So you are really comparing apples to oranges.
It would be like comparing the sales of Skyrim, which is of the charts, to SW:TOR.
Who's comparing?
I was just pointing out to a poster the reason why GW2 was unknown outside of MMORPG circles. Didn't even mention ToR.
Yeah I was kinda responding to the entire message chain and not just your post. I.e. I was responding the the guy who originally said that GW2 launch will surpass SW:TOR launch.
BY now everybody should know that pre-orders as well as sales means nothing.
To who? I bet EA is pretty stoked about sales so far.
It does not matter in relation to the success of an MMORPG. Unless you are considering AoC and WAR as successful just because they had 1million+ box sales.
How? Unless they announce that Mario or Ronald McDonald is in the game, it lacks the popularity to compete on that level. It will be big. But... bigger launch than SW TOR? Delusional.
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I'm expecting this to be one of the biggest launches in history if not the biggest, and i'm expecting GW2 to surpass this even.
I seriously doubt that. Mainly because GW2 is completely unknown outside of MMORPG circles.
If it came out tomorrow then sure, but there's zero point in doing a major advertising campaign for a game which doesn't even have a release date or is not yet into beta. Best bet is focus the funds on development and just let the hype train slowly gain speed through word of mouth.
You can bet that Arenanet (or NCsoft) will advertise the heck out of this game once they are comfortable enough to say "Right, the game will release on xx/xx/xx".
At that point, I would expect the number of people who know about GW2 to increase dramatically.
GW 2 will probably sell more than SW:TOR but not because of the IP but because one requires subscription and the other one is, most likely, P2P. So you are really comparing apples to oranges.
It would be like comparing the sales of Skyrim, which is of the charts, to SW:TOR.
Who's comparing?
I was just pointing out to a poster the reason why GW2 was unknown outside of MMORPG circles. Didn't even mention ToR.
Yeah I was kinda responding to the entire message chain and not just your post. I.e. I was responding the the guy who originally said that GW2 launch will surpass SW:TOR launch.
It was my own opinion and i stick by it, whether people agree or not is entirely a different matter. The problem with forums like these is you measure from within a box and dont take into consideration on what the thoughts are outside it.
It does not matter in relation to the success of an MMORPG. Unless you are considering AoC and WAR as successful just because they had 1million+ box sales.
You're right, it doesn't matter, either positively or negatively. Anecdote is not, never has been, a reliable predictor of the future.
So maybe we can label these with a "[WILD GUESS]" tag or something, before producing a predictive manifesto.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm expecting this to be one of the biggest launches in history if not the biggest, and i'm expecting GW2 to surpass this even.
I would really love to see what all you guys see with GW2... but I just don't.
As to the OP - Aion was at 3.5 million or so last I checked.
You know I was wondering/saying the exact same thing until I played GW 2, which is why I understand the hype.
May the common sense be with you.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
How? Unless they announce that Mario or Ronald McDonald is in the game, it lacks the popularity to compete on that level. It will be big. But... bigger launch than SW TOR? Delusional.
If it were all about brand recognition, sure - but there are other factors that will come into play as well, and I suspect GW2 will have a much broader appeal, in every other way, making up for the lack of a well known IP. Impossible to say for sure, but I think it's entirely possible that GW2's word of mouth will just be that much better.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
We may find out how well GW2 does sooner than expected. They just announced closed Beta begins this Friday (12/16/2011).
I know this is off topic, but your bandwidth makes me sick to look at
this is the top tier for my area:
wouldn't surprise me if I payed more than you too
And for the record, I don't see why both games can't be successful, I plan on playing both. TSW too. they are all very different experiences and will draw different crowds or some of the same who like more than one type of game
I love how at the top of this page WoW valiantly tries to draw attention away from its newer competitors "World of Warcraft Patch 4.3 NOW LIVE!!! PLAY FREE FOR 7 DAYS!!!!! Hey you! Look over here, NO don't look that way....don't...awww, man"
Dynamic persistant world alongside vast Personalized PVE content....check.
Guild wars 2 will make SWTOR look like it was coded and designed by drunk monkeys.
And I am a huge star wars and bioware fan. DA2 was awesome and ME3 will kill countless people ala evercrack related death via starvation and dehydration.
I simply cannot see past the badly done animations, or wacking on someone repeatedly with a lightsaber to no avail, or taking entire clips of blasterfire....and living, or the absurd costume design, or the space combat on rails, or the wowesque style gameplay.......and graphics......the list could go on.
It isn't very dificult to see how bad this game is...even without playing it.
Dynamic persistant world alongside vast Personalized PVE content....check.
Guild wars 2 will make SWTOR look like it was coded and designed by drunk monkeys.
And I am a huge star wars and bioware fan. DA2 was awesome and ME3 will kill countless people ala evercrack related death via starvation and dehydration.
I simply cannot see past the badly done animations, or wacking on someone repeatedly with a lightsaber to no avail, or taking entire clips of blasterfire....and living, or the absurd costume design, or the space combat on rails, or the wowesque style gameplay.......and graphics......the list could go on.
It isn't very dificult to see how bad this game is...even without playing it.
Yea but that's by opinions bro, I mean I do agree about this yet honestly graphics are my least concern long as they don't look dated(SWTOR does not have outdated graphics IMO) I was a SWTOR fan(die hard) as well and yea I'll agree with you but at the end it's opinions you know?
Must still understand that it's(SWTOR) a good current gen MMORPG.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Dynamic persistant world alongside vast Personalized PVE content....check.
Guild wars 2 will make SWTOR look like it was coded and designed by drunk monkeys.
And I am a huge star wars and bioware fan. DA2 was awesome and ME3 will kill countless people ala evercrack related death via starvation and dehydration.
I simply cannot see past the badly done animations, or wacking on someone repeatedly with a lightsaber to no avail, or taking entire clips of blasterfire....and living, or the absurd costume design, or the space combat on rails, or the wowesque style gameplay.......and graphics......the list could go on.
It isn't very dificult to see how bad this game is...even without playing it.
Evidently you have a verry difficult time understanding diffrent people have diffrent tasts.
I love how at the top of this page WoW valiantly tries to draw attention away from its newer competitors "World of Warcraft Patch 4.3 NOW LIVE!!! PLAY FREE FOR 7 DAYS!!!!! Hey you! Look over here, NO don't look that way....don't...awww, man"
This made me do some lawlmonstering.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I'm expecting this to be one of the biggest launches in history if not the biggest, and i'm expecting GW2 to surpass this even.
I would really love to see what all you guys see with GW2... but I just don't.
As to the OP - Aion was at 3.5 million or so last I checked.
We see something new, we see a shred of hope for mmorpgs. Belief we can play a game without quests and preset paths which you have to follow to reach the fun part of the game. It's a whole religion you know, actually more like a cult since it's not accepted from other religions.
Now seriously... It looks awesome, feels fresh and makes me think it will offer something new for the genre, something we haven't seen so far and something which might bring more challange to play and where players skill will be the main factor in PvP not your capability of grinding the same raid dungeon over and over and over (or doing the same battlefields over and over to get PVP tokens or honor points or whatever)... That's what I see in it, plus it's my first online rpg and I still play it which is apsolutley amazing how this game keeps me interested (with few pauses and playing other games a side with gw1).
To OP:
We will see how this game turns out in 6 months to 1 year and then we can judge it by success... This hype can get into anyones head, and you really must count all the swtor fans which will buy the game just to try it (because we all love the movies and the books and the comics and the cartoon series...)... So this is just hype related mostly, we'll see how it goes...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
I love how at the top of this page WoW valiantly tries to draw attention away from its newer competitors "World of Warcraft Patch 4.3 NOW LIVE!!! PLAY FREE FOR 7 DAYS!!!!! Hey you! Look over here, NO don't look that way....don't...awww, man"
This made me do some lawlmonstering.
hahaha, you're apsolutley right dude! Click on the homepage few times and you'll see there's different ad almost every time you refresh... When you go to the SWTOR section of the forum, voila - the WOW ad is here constantly xD (I refreshed like 15 times xD )
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
I don't believe in growth in MMO's anymore. Half of the preorders will stop playing after a few months.
Exactly and one needs to ask the question, why did MMOs use to grow in subs. but now they almost always decline sharply.
I call this the Themepark effect, no matter how well designed your Themepark is people will get bored of riding your rides. Sandbox on the other side, if they are any good, allow the players to design their own rides and that is why games like Eve have steadily grown from 30k subs at release to over 300k and holding.
WoW is the only exception to this.
LOTRO showed growth for its first two years. Again, it had a lot of lifetime subs so its numbers might be skewed, but given the lifetime subs were constant the non-lifetime subs did actively grow for the first 2 years of the games life (but how many of those lifetime subs stopped playing we dont know)
I think the genre has grown so much and hype builds so much that first month spikes will be common place. The key is what happens fater the initial spike. Rift continues to go down.
There just havent been enough good themeparks to really make a clear decision. there have only been 4 high quality ones at release. 2 of those had growth (WoW, LOTRO), 2 have not (EQ2, Rift).
LOTRO had growth yes but after two years it started dropping and then it went F2P. Also I dont know what you mean with high quality MMORPGs but AoC, Aion, DCU, CoX and WAR were all considered big budget triple A releases. And all of them, beside Aion, have sharply declined, and then most went F2P.
High quality, not budget. AoC and WAR were disasters at launch, Aion is a largely eastern MMORPG that did not go over in the west. CoH just never felt like a full fledged MMORPG.
And LOTRO's F2P had nothing to do with its population (which was in decline, but 2 years is a pretty significant growth time) and everything to do with the success of DDO's F2P
I love how at the top of this page WoW valiantly tries to draw attention away from its newer competitors "World of Warcraft Patch 4.3 NOW LIVE!!! PLAY FREE FOR 7 DAYS!!!!! Hey you! Look over here, NO don't look that way....don't...awww, man"
Dynamic persistant world alongside vast Personalized PVE content....check.
Guild wars 2 will make SWTOR look like it was coded and designed by drunk monkeys.
And I am a huge star wars and bioware fan. DA2 was awesome and ME3 will kill countless people ala evercrack related death via starvation and dehydration.
I simply cannot see past the badly done animations, or wacking on someone repeatedly with a lightsaber to no avail, or taking entire clips of blasterfire....and living, or the absurd costume design, or the space combat on rails, or the wowesque style gameplay.......and graphics......the list could go on.
It isn't very dificult to see how bad this game is...even without playing it.
I personally think that combat healing and looting is more against the IP than that stuff.
But the fact is that a lot of MMO players like their games this way and I think it is great that TOR and SWG is so far apart, it is a lot better for us players than if they would have been very similar. Now you can pick the game which style you prefer. If we just could get a nice sandbox also everything would be A-OK.
Just because you don't like a game does not mean it is bad, and the question is how faithful you could be to such an IP and still use regular MMO mechanics?
I really dont expect to see TOR go the way of warhammer and aoc.
I played some of AOC when it went free, easy to see how it crashed and burned.
Warhammer i was all set to play, until before it went live they started cutting things from the game they had been saying were going to make it, never bothered with it after that .
Rift i actually am currently playing the free trial, but it will stop without me buying it, while i am having some fun, the game feels just like WOW, even down to the crafting. But i dont lump rift in with the other "fail" mmos that have come recently, ive seen a good many people running around the world in there and the cities are pretty populated with people.
Aieon didnt even bother, not a fan of eastern mmos.
As long as bioware keeps pumping out new content and keeps the player base happy, i think it will be around for a while.
Will it have the same numbers as Wow? doubt it, but it shoujld have a very healthy population for years to come, as long as bioware does not screw it up somehow.
No they aren't, they haven't got any subs yet. They've got game purchases and everyone already knew that was going to be over 1 million.
Actually they do not even really have that, I am playing early access now but can still cancell my purchase anytime up till the 20th. I know a lot of Redzoners were waiting for this opportunity to see how the servers would run for us under a realistic load (not beta testing) and some will cancell their pre-orders based on their early access experiences.
I love how at the top of this page WoW valiantly tries to draw attention away from its newer competitors "World of Warcraft Patch 4.3 NOW LIVE!!! PLAY FREE FOR 7 DAYS!!!!! Hey you! Look over here, NO don't look that way....don't...awww, man"
I like the title "Hour of Twilight" how fitting.
reminds me of that South Park episode, "This could be end of the world....of warcraft"
I'm expecting this to be one of the biggest launches in history if not the biggest, and i'm expecting GW2 to surpass this even.
I would really love to see what all you guys see with GW2... but I just don't.
As to the OP - Aion was at 3.5 million or so last I checked.
Sir, a majority of those would be Asian subs and I was under the impression that on this site, Asian accounts don't really count. If you're talking about WoW anyway.
But I do agree about GW2. Korean devs pump out something similar every other day. I just don't see what stands out about it.
Yeah, I stopped reading here. Laughing too hard to continue right now.
Comments
Yeah I was kinda responding to the entire message chain and not just your post. I.e. I was responding the the guy who originally said that GW2 launch will surpass SW:TOR launch.
My gaming blog
It does not matter in relation to the success of an MMORPG. Unless you are considering AoC and WAR as successful just because they had 1million+ box sales.
My gaming blog
How? Unless they announce that Mario or Ronald McDonald is in the game, it lacks the popularity to compete on that level. It will be big. But... bigger launch than SW TOR? Delusional.
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
It was my own opinion and i stick by it, whether people agree or not is entirely a different matter. The problem with forums like these is you measure from within a box and dont take into consideration on what the thoughts are outside it.
You're right, it doesn't matter, either positively or negatively. Anecdote is not, never has been, a reliable predictor of the future.
So maybe we can label these with a "[WILD GUESS]" tag or something, before producing a predictive manifesto.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
We may find out how well GW2 does sooner than expected. They just announced closed Beta begins this Friday (12/16/2011).
Oderint, dum metuant.
You know I was wondering/saying the exact same thing until I played GW 2, which is why I understand the hype.
May the common sense be with you.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
If it were all about brand recognition, sure - but there are other factors that will come into play as well, and I suspect GW2 will have a much broader appeal, in every other way, making up for the lack of a well known IP. Impossible to say for sure, but I think it's entirely possible that GW2's word of mouth will just be that much better.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I will pass on SWToR and buy GW2. There are a lot of people like me out there....
I know this is off topic, but your bandwidth makes me sick to look at
this is the top tier for my area:
wouldn't surprise me if I payed more than you too
And for the record, I don't see why both games can't be successful, I plan on playing both. TSW too. they are all very different experiences and will draw different crowds or some of the same who like more than one type of game
I love how at the top of this page WoW valiantly tries to draw attention away from its newer competitors "World of Warcraft Patch 4.3 NOW LIVE!!! PLAY FREE FOR 7 DAYS!!!!! Hey you! Look over here, NO don't look that way....don't...awww, man"
People are nuts comparing GW2 to SWTOR.
Better Graphics > GW2
Better PVE > GW2
Better PVP > GW2
Dynamic persistant world alongside vast Personalized PVE content....check.
Guild wars 2 will make SWTOR look like it was coded and designed by drunk monkeys.
And I am a huge star wars and bioware fan. DA2 was awesome and ME3 will kill countless people ala evercrack related death via starvation and dehydration.
I simply cannot see past the badly done animations, or wacking on someone repeatedly with a lightsaber to no avail, or taking entire clips of blasterfire....and living, or the absurd costume design, or the space combat on rails, or the wowesque style gameplay.......and graphics......the list could go on.
It isn't very dificult to see how bad this game is...even without playing it.
Yea but that's by opinions bro, I mean I do agree about this yet honestly graphics are my least concern long as they don't look dated(SWTOR does not have outdated graphics IMO) I was a SWTOR fan(die hard) as well and yea I'll agree with you but at the end it's opinions you know?
Must still understand that it's(SWTOR) a good current gen MMORPG.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Evidently you have a verry difficult time understanding diffrent people have diffrent tasts.
This made me do some lawlmonstering.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
We see something new, we see a shred of hope for mmorpgs. Belief we can play a game without quests and preset paths which you have to follow to reach the fun part of the game. It's a whole religion you know, actually more like a cult since it's not accepted from other religions.
Now seriously... It looks awesome, feels fresh and makes me think it will offer something new for the genre, something we haven't seen so far and something which might bring more challange to play and where players skill will be the main factor in PvP not your capability of grinding the same raid dungeon over and over and over (or doing the same battlefields over and over to get PVP tokens or honor points or whatever)... That's what I see in it, plus it's my first online rpg and I still play it which is apsolutley amazing how this game keeps me interested (with few pauses and playing other games a side with gw1).
To OP:
We will see how this game turns out in 6 months to 1 year and then we can judge it by success... This hype can get into anyones head, and you really must count all the swtor fans which will buy the game just to try it (because we all love the movies and the books and the comics and the cartoon series...)... So this is just hype related mostly, we'll see how it goes...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
hahaha, you're apsolutley right dude! Click on the homepage few times and you'll see there's different ad almost every time you refresh... When you go to the SWTOR section of the forum, voila - the WOW ad is here constantly xD (I refreshed like 15 times xD )
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
High quality, not budget. AoC and WAR were disasters at launch, Aion is a largely eastern MMORPG that did not go over in the west. CoH just never felt like a full fledged MMORPG.
And LOTRO's F2P had nothing to do with its population (which was in decline, but 2 years is a pretty significant growth time) and everything to do with the success of DDO's F2P
I like the title "Hour of Twilight" how fitting.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I personally think that combat healing and looting is more against the IP than that stuff.
But the fact is that a lot of MMO players like their games this way and I think it is great that TOR and SWG is so far apart, it is a lot better for us players than if they would have been very similar. Now you can pick the game which style you prefer. If we just could get a nice sandbox also everything would be A-OK.
Just because you don't like a game does not mean it is bad, and the question is how faithful you could be to such an IP and still use regular MMO mechanics?
THIS
I really dont expect to see TOR go the way of warhammer and aoc.
I played some of AOC when it went free, easy to see how it crashed and burned.
Warhammer i was all set to play, until before it went live they started cutting things from the game they had been saying were going to make it, never bothered with it after that .
Rift i actually am currently playing the free trial, but it will stop without me buying it, while i am having some fun, the game feels just like WOW, even down to the crafting. But i dont lump rift in with the other "fail" mmos that have come recently, ive seen a good many people running around the world in there and the cities are pretty populated with people.
Aieon didnt even bother, not a fan of eastern mmos.
As long as bioware keeps pumping out new content and keeps the player base happy, i think it will be around for a while.
Will it have the same numbers as Wow? doubt it, but it shoujld have a very healthy population for years to come, as long as bioware does not screw it up somehow.
Actually they do not even really have that, I am playing early access now but can still cancell my purchase anytime up till the 20th. I know a lot of Redzoners were waiting for this opportunity to see how the servers would run for us under a realistic load (not beta testing) and some will cancell their pre-orders based on their early access experiences.
reminds me of that South Park episode, "This could be end of the world....of warcraft"
Yeah, I stopped reading here. Laughing too hard to continue right now.