LOL, if SW:TOR is nothing but the same-old same old, technically, you are going back to the same-old same-old in WoW.
Never ceases to amaze me that they are willing to bore themselves in one game because they've done it forever but won't even give a new game the same level of effort. Blizzard thanks you for the free money. You should buy stock in the company and atleast recover some of your expenses.
Just look at WoW and its predecessor EQ. WoW is pretty much fundamentally different from EQ. Its leveling system is different, EQ didn't have anything like WoW's instanced dungeons, no real PvP at all in EQ...the list could go on.
Bwahahahah!
When WoW came out, all people could talk about was how it was "an EQ clone but for little kids".
Also... no instanced dungeons in EQ when WoW was released?
EQ released Lost Dungeons Of Norrath in September, 2003, more than a year before WoW was released... at least here on Earth-1.
I really hope more WOW-ites follow suit to be honest. Already seen a thread that basically said 'siiiiigh..I gotta wait for people's dialogue..siiiiiigh...' WOW is perfect for those with ADD, that's where they should stay.
I'll get run for saying this or preached at by the board mod-gods..don't really care anymore. Had to be said, gentlemen. Carry on.
People have different things they enjoy and do not enjoy.
For some, the cinematics are just 'bad acting', so they really do not care to sit there an watch it -- pretending it is an Oscar performance. Others want to Actively play the game, rather than Passively watch the game.
It is simply people playing the game for different reasons. Some people are playing TOR simply because it is the latest game, others because it is a SciFi/Star Wars MMO, etc -- not customer purchased the game, to passively watch the VO.
Ahhh the hell with it, I'll just list them for you...
WoW
Rift/Aion
EQ
Abilities
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Only casters have lots of abilities (like D&D)
Primary Leveling Process
Quest-node leveling
Quest-node leveling
Spawn camping OR soloing/kiting with specific classes
Endgame
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding gear grind
PvP
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
PvP flag or dueling, but pretty much non-existant
Group Dynamic
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal/Control
Dungeons
Instanced, controlled group experience
Instanced, controlled group experience
Originally open world spawn camping dungeons, but added instanced ones with LDoN
Class Customization
Talent trees
Rift is very different here, but Aion has talent trees like WoW
Virtually none, may have been some at very high levels, but never got there
Economy
Auction House
Auction House
Originally just trading via chat, but later player vendors in the "Bazaar"
UI
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
You had a spell bar with 8(?) spells if you were a caster, then I think 8(?) actions taht you could hotkey...UI was fairly uncustomizable.
Exact Match to WoW
Partial Match to WoW
Compeltely dissimilar from WoW
The thing with TOR is, that it seems to have taken a step backwards in some areas of that comparison. As a game, TOR did not carry over a lot of the current level of quality in the game aspects.
Imo, if you added VO's to WoW and a Star Wars Graphic Skin, SW:WoW > SW:TOR.
I really hope more WOW-ites follow suit to be honest. Already seen a thread that basically said 'siiiiigh..I gotta wait for people's dialogue..siiiiiigh...' WOW is perfect for those with ADD, that's where they should stay.
I'll get run for saying this or preached at by the board mod-gods..don't really care anymore. Had to be said, gentlemen. Carry on.
You think that SWTOR will end up having a better community? Get a clue, nowadays it's not the game (since they are all the same to attract the same crowd), it's the players. They are in every game.
I saw alot of people running the "go back to WoW, we don't want you here"-phrase in just released games -look at these games now. It's either they died/went the F2P loser way after everyone in fact went back to WoW or they got run over by WoW-mentality players anyway.
You delude yourself believing that VoiceOvers will make a difference. Guess what, those with ADD as you call them skip VOs already and votekick you if you don't, you will become the minority. Talk to you in 2 weeks when the first [Anal] and Chuck Norris references appear.
I really hope more WOW-ites follow suit to be honest. Already seen a thread that basically said 'siiiiigh..I gotta wait for people's dialogue..siiiiiigh...' WOW is perfect for those with ADD, that's where they should stay.
I'll get run for saying this or preached at by the board mod-gods..don't really care anymore. Had to be said, gentlemen. Carry on.
You think that SWTOR will end up having a better community? Get a clue, nowadays it's not the game (since they are all the same to attract the same crowd), it's the players. They are in every game.
I saw alot of people running the "go back to WoW, we don't want you here"-phrase in just released games -look at these games now. It's either they died/went the F2P loser way after everyone in fact went back to WoW or they got run over by WoW-mentality players anyway.
You delude yourself believing that VoiceOvers will make a difference. Guess what, those with ADD as you call them skip VOs already and votekick you if you don't, you will become the minority. Talk to you in 2 weeks when the first [Anal] and Chuck Norris references appear.
Sorry you didn't like TOR. Different games are for different people.
I'm not entirely sure why it necessitated a forum post though... Likewise, I am unclear on why it wasn't a post on the WoW forums since you are complimenting WoW and we all know WoW could use some nice things to say on their forum.
I don't know if you purchased the whole game or spent five bucks for a pre-order to get early access, but you've apparently uncovered what you wanted to know in regard to the game and decided it's not for you.
Hopefully, you only spent 5 bucks and can get on with the rest of your life.
I don't care if the OP is a troll or a genuine first timer because I totally agree with what he's saying.
I had been watching and waiting a long time for TOR and nearly wet myself with excitement when I got into the recent beta weekend. I was genuinely hoping in a big way that TOR was WoW in a new, shiny 2011 skin with an amazing story, voiceovers and cutting edge graphics because although I still play and enjoy WoW I'm waiting for something new to take it's place as my number one mmo.
Unfortunately SWTOR isn't that game and it's really hard for me to put my finger on exactly why. On the closing Monday with about 6 or so hours left of beta time I logged out and went back to WoW.
People are probably going to jump all over this with wow/panda/handholding etc comments but TOR just didn't excite me at all. I remember playing through my first Flashpoint and wishing half way through it that it would end already. It seemed like myself and the other members of the group spent 70% of our time running back and forth, 15% waiting on everyone to 'roll' on the conversation comments and 15% of actual fighting. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of elevators that we had to take. Yes, I know not all flashpoints are the same but that was just one example of my experience with the game. The questing and leveling also felt very tedious and underwhelming. I'm not saying it was a grind - it was just boring.
So anyway, have at it and bring your wowboy comments. I'm not attacking SWTOR, just saying I found it rather ordinary and actually less enjoyable than WoW. I can't help but agree with the OP.
Ah, the joys of selective comparisons. By choosing the right characteristics, I can prove that Angry Birds is a WoW clone.
Everquest:
Race/class/level system.
Each class gains powers as it levels up.
Kill monsters and complete QUESTS (as in, EverQUEST) to gain XP. I do not understand where people get the idea there was no QUESTing in EverQUEST. Did you never talk to the NPCs? Hint: Type the underlined words.
Each class has either a defined role in combat (tank, healer, DPS) or a hybrid role.
Grind to gain faction/standing. Various races are KOS to others.
Monsters in various levels of power relative to characters. (/con )
Lockouts on high level play areas.
End-game consists of repetitive raids of the same content over and over and over and over...
Items of varying levels of power; gearing up necessary to meet higher-level challenges.
Mix of static world spawns, wandering spawns, and rare spawns.
Camping for rare spawns.
Solo/group/guild play.
Open-world PVP on PVP servers; consensual PVP on PVE servers.
WoW:
See above.
Most of the differences you mention are what created the "Everquest clone, but for kids" meme of 2004-2005 or so. WoW is/was "Everquest Lite". The thing is, and this is the point of my post, and the point you're missing, that WoW succeeded by taking the primary game mechanics from EQ and making them easier to use, better polished, and removing features that added frustration without adding challenge (like ninja looting in dungeons).
The point is, "Doing what the other guy did, except, BETTER" *is* how you make a successful game. Has Bioware pulled it off? We'll know in a few months.
Ahhh the hell with it, I'll just list them for you...
WoW
Rift/Aion
EQ
Abilities
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Only casters have lots of abilities (like D&D)
Primary Leveling Process
Quest-node leveling
Quest-node leveling
Spawn camping OR soloing/kiting with specific classes
Endgame
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding gear grind
PvP
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
PvP flag or dueling, but pretty much non-existant
Group Dynamic
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal/Control
Dungeons
Instanced, controlled group experience
Instanced, controlled group experience
Originally open world spawn camping dungeons, but added instanced ones with LDoN
Class Customization
Talent trees
Rift is very different here, but Aion has talent trees like WoW
Virtually none, may have been some at very high levels, but never got there
Economy
Auction House
Auction House
Originally just trading via chat, but later player vendors in the "Bazaar"
UI
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
You had a spell bar with 8(?) spells if you were a caster, then I think 8(?) actions taht you could hotkey...UI was fairly uncustomizable.
Exact Match to WoW
Partial Match to WoW
Compeltely dissimilar from WoW
Creslin most of your red seems to come from EQ in its original state before any patches or upgrades. Eventually you were able to bind spell keys/abilities to 1 - 0 even creating complex macros that sent msgs into chat at timed intervals if you desired (before Kunark I believe).
Even at the games launch it had PvP servers. Outside of the PvP servers the ruling worked as you described but on a PvP server the ruling was very different. They even had different rule set PvP servers (i.e. race wars). There were even ways to solo for decent exp with every class even at launch. They weren't always intuitive but they were there (i.e. warriors being the "green con killers", mow down light blue and green exp cons with little down time).
Ever Quest even had PvP gear if you'll believe that! Again it wasn't intuitive/formalized PvP gear but if you knew what you were about you knew which drops worked best for PvP. You could argue all day that since it wasn't specifically sanctioned as PvP gear that it wasn't "PvP gear" but due to the ability to pick and choose what you used in every slot it felt more personal (far less carbon copy gearing in EQ especially after more expansions).
It's AA system introduced loads of customization to the game beyond the customization through gearing I mentioned earlier. Spells were even a form of customization in EQ. Some were researched (crafted) and some were rare drops off normal monster or even nameds and bosses. Typically not every spell caster would always have every spell.
I can go on with this honestly but I think when you compare WoW to EQ you have to decide what era of EQ to compare to WoW because, in all fairness, as EQ's predecessor WoW was able to study and streamline all of its progenitors improvements.
Ah, the joys of selective comparisons. By choosing the right characteristics, I can prove that Angry Birds is a WoW clone.
Everquest:
Race/class/level system.
Wow really? This is like ANY RPG that isn't purely skill based.
Each class gains powers as it levels up.
Any RPG (and many NON-RPGs) have progression.
Kill monsters and complete QUESTS (as in, EverQUEST) to gain XP. I do not understand where people get the idea there was no QUESTing in EverQUEST. Did you never talk to the NPCs? Hint: Type the underlined words.
EQ had quests sure, but there were not NEARLY enough of them to take you to max level. And some of the quests in EQ involved camping a spawn for literally days.
Each class has either a defined role in combat (tank, healer, DPS) or a hybrid role.
Sustained, but you left out control (enchanter).
Grind to gain faction/standing. Various races are KOS to others.
You can't gain faction in WoW.
Monsters in various levels of power relative to characters. (/con )
Wow what a novel concept! Monsters of varying power levels! I guess EQ is a clone of pen and paper games.
Lockouts on high level play areas.
I really wouldn't call this a significant "feature" that can be clones. And if I recall, only UBER high level places like the planes in EQ had lockouts.
End-game consists of repetitive raids of the same content over and over and over and over...
Yes...but um...it's a game, it has a finite amount of content. You will, by necessity, repeat it in the endgame. Also, WoW had a PvP end-game as well, EQ did not.
Items of varying levels of power; gearing up necessary to meet higher-level challenges.
Items of varying power levels! I didn't know EQ was a clone of Final Fantasy!
Mix of static world spawns, wandering spawns, and rare spawns.
This was MUCH more of a conern in EQ than WoW. WoW is based mainly on questing for a specific mob or doing instances in which cases spawns were not an issue at all. In EQ you could camp for days trying to get a rare spawn. In WoW, you normally may have to wait 2-4 minutes.
Camping for rare spawns.
I've never done this in WoW. Maybe it's possible if you're trying to find some rare crafting component, but I'm not aware if it is.
Solo/group/guild play.
Uhhh...an MMO? I think any MMO qualifies for this.
Open-world PVP on PVP servers; consensual PVP on PVE servers.
EQ's PvP was a joke. It was INCREDIBLY imbalanced, and Rallos Zek was usually a "just for fun" server for all but the really hardcore. In WoW, the PvP actually had a semblance of balance and was a major part of the game.
WoW:
See above.
Most of the differences you mention are what created the "Everquest clone, but for kids" meme of 2004-2005 or so. WoW is/was "Everquest Lite". The thing is, and this is the point of my post, and the point you're missing, that WoW succeeded by taking the primary game mechanics from EQ and making them easier to use, better polished, and removing features that added frustration without adding challenge (like ninja looting in dungeons).
The point is, "Doing what the other guy did, except, BETTER" *is* how you make a successful game. Has Bioware pulled it off? We'll know in a few months.
I think all of your comparisons are fairly hilarious because most of them can be applied to ANY RPG. And some of them can be applied to ANY game. Also, some of them are drastically different between WoW and EQ (camping for rare spawns).
My comparisons were all pretty much MMORPG specific and defined a large portion of the game experience. "Primary leveling experience" is an example here.
I get your point that you could list comparison criteria to make anything look the same as something else, the difference is that my comparisons were fairly valid and yours are non-sensical.
Ahhh the hell with it, I'll just list them for you...
WoW
Rift/Aion
EQ
Abilities
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Only casters have lots of abilities (like D&D)
Primary Leveling Process
Quest-node leveling
Quest-node leveling
Spawn camping OR soloing/kiting with specific classes
Endgame
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding gear grind
PvP
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
PvP flag or dueling, but pretty much non-existant
Group Dynamic
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal/Control
Dungeons
Instanced, controlled group experience
Instanced, controlled group experience
Originally open world spawn camping dungeons, but added instanced ones with LDoN
Class Customization
Talent trees
Rift is very different here, but Aion has talent trees like WoW
Virtually none, may have been some at very high levels, but never got there
Economy
Auction House
Auction House
Originally just trading via chat, but later player vendors in the "Bazaar"
UI
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
You had a spell bar with 8(?) spells if you were a caster, then I think 8(?) actions taht you could hotkey...UI was fairly uncustomizable.
Exact Match to WoW
Partial Match to WoW
Compeltely dissimilar from WoW
Creslin most of your red seems to come from EQ in its original state before any patches or upgrades. Eventually you were able to bind spell keys/abilities to 1 - 0 even creating complex macros that sent msgs into chat at timed intervals if you desired.
Even at the games launch it had PvP servers. Outside of the PvP servers the ruling worked as you described but on a PvP server the ruling was very different. They even had different rule set PvP servers (i.e. race wars). There were even ways to solo for decent exp with every class even at launch. They weren't always intuitive but they were there (i.e. warriors being the "green con killers", mow down light blue and green exp cons with little down time).
Ever Quest even had PvP gear if you'll believe that! Again it wasn't intuitive/formalized PvP gear but if you knew what you were about you knew which drops worked best for PvP. You could argue all day that since it wasn't specifically sanctioned as PvP gear that it wasn't "PvP gear" but due to the ability to pick and choose what you used in every slot it felt more personal (far less carbon copy gearing in EQ especially after more expansions).
It's AA system introduced loads of customization to the game beyond the customization through gearing I mentioned earlier. Spells were even a form of customization in EQ. Some were researched (crafted) and some were rare drops off normal monster or even nameds and bosses. Typically not every spell caster would always have every spell.
I can go on with this honestly but I think when you compare WoW to EQ you have to decide what era of EQ to compare to WoW because, in all fairness, as EQ's predecessor WoW was able to study and streamline all of its progenitors improvements.
Yeah I played on the Race War server at one time so I remember that .
I think the difference is that EQ was pretty much never built for PvP. There were several abilities in the game that were ridiculously unbalancing (like charm or blinding flash). So while EQ did have PvP servers (2?), it was always a "side-show attraction."
WoW was actually built to be fairly balanced for PvP, and it is, judged by all the competition and tourneys that go on.
Yeah I played on the Race War server at one time so I remember that .
I think the difference is that EQ was pretty much never built for PvP. There were several abilities in the game that were ridiculously unbalancing (like charm or blinding flash). So while EQ did have PvP servers (2?), it was always a "side-show attraction."
WoW was actually built to be fairly balanced for PvP, and it is, judged by all the competition and tourneys that go on.
Can you imagine a competitive PvP tourney in EQ?
Yea, I agree EQ was never built for PvP. There were 3 PvP servers eventually pretty sure it was only 2 originally. They were Tallon Zek, Vallon Zek, and Rallos Zek (certain Rallos was every man for himself and had item loss on death originally). It's because of WoW's focus on PvP balance that the gearing is the way it is (gear conformity enables them to solely focus on skill balancing). WoW's gear isn't as boring as GW1 gear but after awhile its close heh.
The druids and enchanters (or bards) tended to do overly well in PvP but honestly if you knew how to stack magic and elemental resists on a warr and maintain some decent hp/ac you could shrug off charms and blind. You could also play brilliantly using line of sight to prevent casting but it only worked when hiding spots were available (mostly in dungeons). The real bother about melee vs casters is that most would gate when near death or if you were prepared with resist gear and they caught on early. If anything EQ's PvP was based around fights happening in its open world and the tournament structure fits even more poorly.
I think you make a fairly valid and oft-repeated point but...no one is going to take you seriously because you have 1 post and your only post is something that may be a troll attempt .
I am usually not thinking along these lines but recently... so many "new" members just from the last few days wrote negative about SWTOR, I almost think it's a Blizzard scheme! XD
*grabs tin foil hat*
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
wow you joined just to make a ragequit thread on an offsite forums?
I guess you get the obligatory Can I haz your stuff then, cause thats about all this thread is worth
have a good time with your rehashed bosses and same old same old in WoW glad you have a game to go back to though
Ofcourse he made an account to say what he just did, he has propably made dozens of accounts to say something similar over the past couple of weeks.
Biggest fail step was bringing up the exploration, considering that the game he is going back to has no (not one, none, 0, 0%) reason to explore. There's not a single "secret" place in that game, no datacron equivalents, and hardly none if none actually at all world bosses or minibosses thesedays, TOR is filled with all of those. Feels nice for once in a mmorpg to always find something challenging or rewarding when stepping off the marked path, for once.
Comments
Really?
Compare WoW to EQ.
Now compare WoW to Rift or Aion.
Where do you find more similarities?
Ahhh the hell with it, I'll just list them for you...
WoW
Rift/Aion
EQ
Abilities
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels
Only casters have lots of abilities (like D&D)
Primary Leveling Process
Quest-node leveling
Quest-node leveling
Spawn camping OR soloing/kiting with specific classes
Endgame
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding/PvP gear-grind
Raiding gear grind
PvP
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
Battlegrounds, optional open-world
PvP flag or dueling, but pretty much non-existant
Group Dynamic
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal
DPS/Tank/Heal/Control
Dungeons
Instanced, controlled group experience
Instanced, controlled group experience
Originally open world spawn camping dungeons, but added instanced ones with LDoN
Class Customization
Talent trees
Rift is very different here, but Aion has talent trees like WoW
Virtually none, may have been some at very high levels, but never got there
Economy
Auction House
Auction House
Originally just trading via chat, but later player vendors in the "Bazaar"
UI
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys
You had a spell bar with 8(?) spells if you were a caster, then I think 8(?) actions taht you could hotkey...UI was fairly uncustomizable.
Exact Match to WoW
Partial Match to WoW
Compeltely dissimilar from WoW
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
People have different things they enjoy and do not enjoy.
For some, the cinematics are just 'bad acting', so they really do not care to sit there an watch it -- pretending it is an Oscar performance. Others want to Actively play the game, rather than Passively watch the game.
It is simply people playing the game for different reasons. Some people are playing TOR simply because it is the latest game, others because it is a SciFi/Star Wars MMO, etc -- not customer purchased the game, to passively watch the VO.
The thing with TOR is, that it seems to have taken a step backwards in some areas of that comparison. As a game, TOR did not carry over a lot of the current level of quality in the game aspects.
Imo, if you added VO's to WoW and a Star Wars Graphic Skin, SW:WoW > SW:TOR.
You think that SWTOR will end up having a better community? Get a clue, nowadays it's not the game (since they are all the same to attract the same crowd), it's the players. They are in every game.
I saw alot of people running the "go back to WoW, we don't want you here"-phrase in just released games -look at these games now. It's either they died/went the F2P loser way after everyone in fact went back to WoW or they got run over by WoW-mentality players anyway.
You delude yourself believing that VoiceOvers will make a difference. Guess what, those with ADD as you call them skip VOs already and votekick you if you don't, you will become the minority. Talk to you in 2 weeks when the first [Anal] and Chuck Norris references appear.
+1 to internets
Sorry you didn't like TOR. Different games are for different people.
I'm not entirely sure why it necessitated a forum post though... Likewise, I am unclear on why it wasn't a post on the WoW forums since you are complimenting WoW and we all know WoW could use some nice things to say on their forum.
I don't know if you purchased the whole game or spent five bucks for a pre-order to get early access, but you've apparently uncovered what you wanted to know in regard to the game and decided it's not for you.
Hopefully, you only spent 5 bucks and can get on with the rest of your life.
Happy adventuring in World of Warcraft.
I don't care if the OP is a troll or a genuine first timer because I totally agree with what he's saying.
I had been watching and waiting a long time for TOR and nearly wet myself with excitement when I got into the recent beta weekend. I was genuinely hoping in a big way that TOR was WoW in a new, shiny 2011 skin with an amazing story, voiceovers and cutting edge graphics because although I still play and enjoy WoW I'm waiting for something new to take it's place as my number one mmo.
Unfortunately SWTOR isn't that game and it's really hard for me to put my finger on exactly why. On the closing Monday with about 6 or so hours left of beta time I logged out and went back to WoW.
People are probably going to jump all over this with wow/panda/handholding etc comments but TOR just didn't excite me at all. I remember playing through my first Flashpoint and wishing half way through it that it would end already. It seemed like myself and the other members of the group spent 70% of our time running back and forth, 15% waiting on everyone to 'roll' on the conversation comments and 15% of actual fighting. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of elevators that we had to take. Yes, I know not all flashpoints are the same but that was just one example of my experience with the game. The questing and leveling also felt very tedious and underwhelming. I'm not saying it was a grind - it was just boring.
So anyway, have at it and bring your wowboy comments. I'm not attacking SWTOR, just saying I found it rather ordinary and actually less enjoyable than WoW. I can't help but agree with the OP.
Merry Christmas
Ah, the joys of selective comparisons. By choosing the right characteristics, I can prove that Angry Birds is a WoW clone.
Everquest:
Race/class/level system.
Each class gains powers as it levels up.
Kill monsters and complete QUESTS (as in, EverQUEST) to gain XP. I do not understand where people get the idea there was no QUESTing in EverQUEST. Did you never talk to the NPCs? Hint: Type the underlined words.
Each class has either a defined role in combat (tank, healer, DPS) or a hybrid role.
Grind to gain faction/standing. Various races are KOS to others.
Monsters in various levels of power relative to characters. (/con )
Lockouts on high level play areas.
End-game consists of repetitive raids of the same content over and over and over and over...
Items of varying levels of power; gearing up necessary to meet higher-level challenges.
Mix of static world spawns, wandering spawns, and rare spawns.
Camping for rare spawns.
Solo/group/guild play.
Open-world PVP on PVP servers; consensual PVP on PVE servers.
WoW:
See above.
Most of the differences you mention are what created the "Everquest clone, but for kids" meme of 2004-2005 or so. WoW is/was "Everquest Lite". The thing is, and this is the point of my post, and the point you're missing, that WoW succeeded by taking the primary game mechanics from EQ and making them easier to use, better polished, and removing features that added frustration without adding challenge (like ninja looting in dungeons).
The point is, "Doing what the other guy did, except, BETTER" *is* how you make a successful game. Has Bioware pulled it off? We'll know in a few months.
Creslin most of your red seems to come from EQ in its original state before any patches or upgrades. Eventually you were able to bind spell keys/abilities to 1 - 0 even creating complex macros that sent msgs into chat at timed intervals if you desired (before Kunark I believe).
Even at the games launch it had PvP servers. Outside of the PvP servers the ruling worked as you described but on a PvP server the ruling was very different. They even had different rule set PvP servers (i.e. race wars). There were even ways to solo for decent exp with every class even at launch. They weren't always intuitive but they were there (i.e. warriors being the "green con killers", mow down light blue and green exp cons with little down time).
Ever Quest even had PvP gear if you'll believe that! Again it wasn't intuitive/formalized PvP gear but if you knew what you were about you knew which drops worked best for PvP. You could argue all day that since it wasn't specifically sanctioned as PvP gear that it wasn't "PvP gear" but due to the ability to pick and choose what you used in every slot it felt more personal (far less carbon copy gearing in EQ especially after more expansions).
It's AA system introduced loads of customization to the game beyond the customization through gearing I mentioned earlier. Spells were even a form of customization in EQ. Some were researched (crafted) and some were rare drops off normal monster or even nameds and bosses. Typically not every spell caster would always have every spell.
I can go on with this honestly but I think when you compare WoW to EQ you have to decide what era of EQ to compare to WoW because, in all fairness, as EQ's predecessor WoW was able to study and streamline all of its progenitors improvements.
I think all of your comparisons are fairly hilarious because most of them can be applied to ANY RPG. And some of them can be applied to ANY game. Also, some of them are drastically different between WoW and EQ (camping for rare spawns).
My comparisons were all pretty much MMORPG specific and defined a large portion of the game experience. "Primary leveling experience" is an example here.
I get your point that you could list comparison criteria to make anything look the same as something else, the difference is that my comparisons were fairly valid and yours are non-sensical.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yeah I played on the Race War server at one time so I remember that
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I think the difference is that EQ was pretty much never built for PvP. There were several abilities in the game that were ridiculously unbalancing (like charm or blinding flash). So while EQ did have PvP servers (2?), it was always a "side-show attraction."
WoW was actually built to be fairly balanced for PvP, and it is, judged by all the competition and tourneys that go on.
Can you imagine a competitive PvP tourney in EQ?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
So you're going back [to] WoW?
I never saw a purple cow.
I never hope to see one.
But I can tell you anyhow
I'd rather see than be one.
Yea, I agree EQ was never built for PvP. There were 3 PvP servers eventually pretty sure it was only 2 originally. They were Tallon Zek, Vallon Zek, and Rallos Zek (certain Rallos was every man for himself and had item loss on death originally). It's because of WoW's focus on PvP balance that the gearing is the way it is (gear conformity enables them to solely focus on skill balancing). WoW's gear isn't as boring as GW1 gear but after awhile its close heh.
The druids and enchanters (or bards) tended to do overly well in PvP but honestly if you knew how to stack magic and elemental resists on a warr and maintain some decent hp/ac you could shrug off charms and blind. You could also play brilliantly using line of sight to prevent casting but it only worked when hiding spots were available (mostly in dungeons). The real bother about melee vs casters is that most would gate when near death or if you were prepared with resist gear and they caught on early. If anything EQ's PvP was based around fights happening in its open world and the tournament structure fits even more poorly.
I am usually not thinking along these lines but recently... so many "new" members just from the last few days wrote negative about SWTOR, I almost think it's a Blizzard scheme! XD
*grabs tin foil hat*
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Ofcourse he made an account to say what he just did, he has propably made dozens of accounts to say something similar over the past couple of weeks.
Biggest fail step was bringing up the exploration, considering that the game he is going back to has no (not one, none, 0, 0%) reason to explore. There's not a single "secret" place in that game, no datacron equivalents, and hardly none if none actually at all world bosses or minibosses thesedays, TOR is filled with all of those. Feels nice for once in a mmorpg to always find something challenging or rewarding when stepping off the marked path, for once.