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Get used to the "clones".
Aesper
Member UncommonPosts: 90
Not sure why it needs to be said, but from a business standpoint, World of Warcraft and it's gargantuan success have forced the industry into a corner. Investors (and clueless moneyshark bigwigs and other glad-handed suit-clad filth) in this economy will not take the risk of putting bread down on something that wont compete with the "big dog". Competing means: The smallest transitional learning curve (down to the same f*cking HOTKEYS) from WoW to XYZ game.
I don't need to list the clones, but the identical recurring themes are the "grab and bag quest" system, the UI in its entirety, the "talent tree" system, PVP "queue up" system, ad infinitum. No investor is going to feel safe putting money on something DIFFERENT. And that's our problem. Brilliant developers out there capable of pure magic; nobody's biting.
Lets look at some of the big ones in terms of community: EQ2, WoW, SWTOR, Rift, LOTRO, EVE. Can you pick which one of those is the anomaly? The clones are here to stay until World of Pandas and Pokemon finally takes a nosedive and people get so sick and tired of being run through the same system for hours upon hours that they simply stop buying MMOs.
Here we are with our dilemma: Developers cant get the money to develop something revolutionary for fear of flopping due to economic instability - safer is better. Players are getting burnt out and bitter about recycled creativity, and are tired of publishers/investors forcing the release of a game too early to stroke their shareholders, resulting in a hype implosion - countless failed launches and games.
It's the same thing time and time again. Massive hype (either viral or due to robust marketing) of clone > release > huge meltdown with identical issues as the previous 10 releases > community seals the coffin with their own publicity (nobody listens to "reviewers anymore, come on) > failed game. NEXT.
Someones gotta take the chance to get MMOs back to being something NEW every time. Not saying there arent good games out there, but there are too many that are the same. On the turn of the coin, even though we cry out for revolution, when something fresh comes around the corner - we treat it with the same scrutiny and negativity.
Adapt and overcome the clones. They'll be around for awhile.
EVE Online player since 2007.
"Our greatest glory consist not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
- Oliver Goldsmith
Comments
And as long people keep buying the newest clone in droves - even if they ditch it after the first month - they will fuel the neverending circle of badness.
Check out Guild Wars 2. The only cloning you'll see there are the mesmers frakking with your mind.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It seems to me, and I have no clue on monetary numbers, that many "MMOs" are actually more like SP games. I have a feeling that none of them "fail", per se, but rather just do not last time-wise like MMOs are supposed to. I have feeling that most new titles make their money back, but probably do not have a great return on investments. Some of these new games are still around today, so they must be making enough money to keep them afloat. Maybe it is the number of gamers NOT playing WoW that keep these others afloat?
The reason I say this is that it seems to me many MMO players jump to the new MMO, play it out and get bored in a month or two, or... since they are pretty much doing in the new game just as they are in WoW, they wind up going back to WoW, where their friends and characters are. It just seems like a massive rubber-banding effect with WoW.
Buy new game --> Play for maybe 100 hours or less --> Go back to WoW
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Archeage.
I'm pretty convinced that this forum will never deem any game "good" ever again. It's just the overall pessimism and negativity, the micro-analyzing, the looking for flaws (instead of looking for the good news)...and the hyperbole.
We've got people who don't even play, but still insist on flaming anything new that's released.
It's been seven years since the last "success", hundreds of releases. That tells you what the chances of ever seeing any game "pass" the eagerness to reject.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
GW2 for my themepark
ArcheAge for my Sandbox
I hope they keep me busy.
My theme song.
It's my money.
Bite me.
Yeah because it is their money and they can spend it however they like. Do you live your life grumbling every day when you see people around you spending money on things you dis approve of? because that is very unhealthy way to live.
Some of the blame for the clone succession has to go to players who whine and complain whenever a dev tries to limit the negative impact they can have on other players. Also, those devs so foolish as to refuse to limit that impact also get the blame. Our options are absolutely terrible right now. We can either put up with the typical themepark or we can play a poorly funded but innovative game like Xsyon where griefing is at least limited, or we're stuck with a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online, where we have to put up with miserable little gankers all the time and where these maladjusted wretches constitutes the majority of content.
Or we can simply stop playing MMOs altogether, which a lot of us have done and will continue to do until we get better options.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Can you blame them? The MMO industry is a joke. There is aboslutely 0 creativity. None, zero, zilch. You have games copying each other down to the hotkeys.
But the OP is right. Get used to the clones - they are here to stay. Like Bioware said, "Its the industry standard".
Until people stop buying these games in droves, they will keep making them. However, dont expect the negativity on these forums to subside. If anything, it will grow louder and louder. Because these people arent being heard, and arent being catered to.
The Ultimate irony is that there is an ever growing market towards Sandboxers.
I remember making a sandbox argument back in 2007 on these forums, and I got slammed.
Now, it seems like I'm moving into the majority here. Funny how time changes.
Notice how CoH and Guild Wars are not up there?
This thread just makes me believe that the OP is incredibly narrow minded.
I'm currently playing 3 mmo's that are not remotely related WoW(each was released after World of Warcraft), and awaiting a very nice xmas present in the form of a beta key from a friend, who has been with the alpha of a very enjoyable mmo that may just re-define what quality in an mmo actually means.
ArcheAge, The Secret World, Guild Wars 2. While TOR could be seen as the latest clone even with emphasis on story and voiceovers, but there are other projeccts out there that could change the face of MMO's. If you're tired of clones then wait for something else and play that.
I completely agree, which is why i play English Priston Tale. It's over ten years old but it's not a clone:) I can't stand new MMOs, it's obscene. I'm hoping GW2 knocks WoW of their pedestal. It's about time.
I don't really understand why people are putting so much faith in GW2 saving the MMO genre. GW1 was OK but didn't really offer anything new besides the subscription model.
I've seen a lot of videos and read a decent amount of info about what ArenaNet hopes to achieve with GW2 but at the end of the day it's gonna have quests that require you to fetch x and kill y in order to progress your char.
I also hear a lot of people complaining about how new MMO's rely on instances too much, GW1 was almost all instances and GW2 will certainly have to have quite a lot in order to achieve their personal story goals.
Don't get me wrong, GW2 will probably be a decent game but the amount of faith people have in it's magical ability to change the way we look at MMO's is laughable.
Uh... Insert coin and try again?
P.S. there are no quests in the sense that you never run to an npc and ask: "What must I do with my life?", instead all quests cumilate into these dynamic events that will often change the world around you. Hopefully that helps you understand the game a little better.
P.P.S. Personally I consider Guild Wars as the polar opposite of World of Warcraft.
Really, it's laughable?
ArenaNet is making a genuine effort to push the MMO genre in a different direction. They're trying something new that may or may not end up being risky, but yet, they're forging ahead anyway with their vision.
Name one other MMO in development right now that has their kinds of ideas which are very much antithetical to the themepark trend we see recycled over and over in today's market.
MMO players should be interested, they should be excited for something new.
That's not laughable.
I'm sure ArenaNet is trying to implement some innovative ideas into their game and I applaud them on it, but the fact that so many people are banking on GW2 to change the industry is funny to me.
I'm looking forward to the game and hope it lives up to the hype but my guess is that many people will be disappointed once they pick up that first fetch quest and realize that it's not that much different than the current crop of themepark MMO's
As far as naming MMO's that are in development right now with new ideas, The Repopulation comes to mind.
I just wanted to say I HATE you,
If you wonder why..look at your sig.
:P
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Nope,i won't.
I get that you're skeptical about GW2. That's fine. I totally encourage skepticism.
The thing is though that you've read up on GW2 a bit, so you're in disbelief of the idea that GW2 will be all that we think it will be. In my opinion, you haven't read enough. Just talking about GW2's DEs as "once they pick up that first fetch quest" illustrates this. Not only is there no picking up (because anybody can take part just by being in the area), there's no fetch (because it doesn't really make sense for DEs, which have to be communal and scalable).
In the bare bones sense, people will still be killing guys and clicking objects in GW2, but the framework is totally different, and it really is going to change everything. If nothing else, think about having a zone full of "quests", but instead of them being solo and isolating, they can instead be done by everybody in the area, and which scale up with more people. That alone would be a pretty cool update to the quest model.
But DEs actually go way beyond that in terms of their presentation. For one thing, they're actually happening, in a lot of cases whether players are there or not. Bandits will try to destroy a bridge or something, and if players don't stop them the bridge will be destroyed. And it won't reset until players do a future event to take it back. Events are failable, unlike quests that you're going to kill those 10 rats eventually. With a quest, you kill 8/10, log out, they'll still be waiting around when you get back. With DEs, something will have happened in that time.
It's not even just about DEs, ArenaNet wants the entire world to be a communal experience. DEs are designed to be as griefless as possible. They want you to WANT to see other people, not just ignore them or group for a minute to take down an elite. Everybody gets xp and loot for helping to kill a mob. There's cross profession combos and everybody rezzing everybody (mid combat) so that maybe a conversation starts with a thank you or something. Events chain together to keep people working together longer. The game automatically mentors you down so you can play with your friends regardless of level. There's teleporters between each city so you can immediately play with your friends regardless of race. There's no factions dividing the population. Gathering nodes are phased so there's no griefing them. Everybody has every gathering profession so that nobody feels like they're holding someone else up. There's 30+ minigames in cities because they wanted them to be more social.
The list literally goes on and on. I'm not stopping because I ran out of things to talk about, I'm stopping because you probably already stopped reading.
GW2 is no clone.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
If you watch the GW2 panels, you realize that:
- The devs really love games
- The devs have played pretty much every MMO out there (including text based muds).
- They are addressing current problems found in current MMOs (mob tagging, griefing events, holy trinity, quest wall of text, etc).
- They are doing an amazing amount of "fit and finish" in their game: e.g. creating original audio sounds, even going to a retired nuclear site to record sounds just to get it "right".
Totalbiscuit is right...if I wanted to play a hotkey clone of WoW, why wouldn't I just play the original thing? Why play some rip off of the original? I played the beta of Rift and it was great, except it's too much like WoW.
GW2 brings a gust of fresh air to the genre.
Yeah, I'm loving me some fiber optics.
Oderint, dum metuant.
indeed..
I fail to see how you cant be used to the clones,its been a decade since the beginning of their ongoing reign in the MMO world.
Guild Wars 2
Archeage
The Repopulation...
i pray for atleast one of you to do well..
I love GW1, put a lot of hours into it and looking forward to GW2, but that's just wrong, given everything I have seen of the game so far
I watched the TB pve video of GW2, one the first quest he got as a charr was "defend the forge" the objectives to complete it were "collect something" and/or "kill X amount of dudes" that's a fetch quest rolled together with a kill quest
GW2 will do a lot of things different when it comes to combat etc, but nothing I have seen so far shows in any way of form that fetch or kill quest are gone, you can't make a RPG without them, at least I can't imagine how, the only thing GW2 does with quest is stringing multiple objectives together to finish a quest (which still consist of "kill X" or "collect Y") and then putting them on a chain where success progresses towards a new quest and failure sets you back on the chain, it's a bit different in the presentation, but the fundamental mechanics are very similar, other MMOs also have you progress on a chain, they just don't set you back if you fail
oh and it's not just you doing the quest but others also contribute to the objectives