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Is MMO's the right genre for me?
Thunderclash
Member Posts: 10
I really like rpg's, in fact, they are my favorite genre of games. Several years back I decided to try MMO's. I tried a very, VERY wide range of them, from WoW to Runescape. Pay to play, and free to play. Finally after 5 years of trying to find a mmo that I liked, I kind of gave up. I really like the idea of mmo's, playing in an immense world with thousands of other players, but the problem I see is that this idea is not being implemented how it should be. I can't think of any mmo company who listens to what people want and make a mmo that doesn't have grinding, poor lore, idiotic AI, dumb-looking armor, just plain boring, etc. The only sanctuary that I've found is GW2, and that's not even out yet! Who knows if they will submit a mmo that is finally good.
The one that has the most hype right now is definately SWTOR. I absolutely LOVE Star Wars, but this game just looks like a reskin of WoW with very little new features. I have yet to play it as I'm waiting for them to release a trial version (I will not spend $60+ and end up hating it, like I did with WoW), but I've been studying gameplays, reviews, interviews, and such.
So, am I just not a mmo person? I've tried over and over again to enjoy it but nothing works. What are your favorite mmo's? Do you truly enjoy them? What would you suggest I do?
Comments
don't let that fanboy shit get to you. just because you don't have a hard on for WoW or SWTOR doesn't mean you don't like MMO's.
The genre has been stale for years now, and a lot us believe games like Rift and SWTOR are the problem. They represent 'more of the same' old gameplay that has been around too long now.
More interesting games seem to be coming down the line next year. It remains to be seen if any of them will actually deliver. Nine times out of ten, they don't, but when you find that special MMO, it is pure gold.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
It depends on why you dislike the MMORPGs that you've played.
Guild Wars addresses your list of complaints pretty well. You get to the level cap very quickly, so there isn't much in the way of grinding. The storyline is quite good if you follow it (do Prophecies first, then Factions, then Nightfall, and do all of the missions without skipping any). The AI is pretty intelligent, as mobs tend to attack whoever they think they can kill the fastest.
+1000
If you have to ask, then probably not
I self identify as a monkey.
Wow way to go OP. well disguised thread subject. I am not going to point it out, because I would be called out for trolling.I just want to call out a certain point from the OP that I would like to discuss.
well I to came to WoW from Runescape.
you mention "grinding". As if a MMO doesn't have grind. Well all MMO have grind. It's just depends on how well they disguise it. For example. In Guild Wars 2, they no longer have the traditional "Kill x of y" quest. OR DO THEY? hint hint, the dynamic even are the same traditional kill quest, just without displaying stats on progress. It's disguised, but can't be removed.
next you point out something about poor lore. I am surprised to hear somebody from WoW say it has poor lore, especially when you consider that massive wiki, and the fact that the IP alone has many different Dungeon And Dragon game sets. That seem strange, especially when you point out Guild Wars ip, which clearly doesn't have lore as deep as Warcraft. So that kind of confused me. So maybe I should just ask. What do you define as poor lore? I am truly curious.
idiotic AI part kind of raised a brow. I heard this argument before on a certain forum (not going to say which), but I have an idea of what you may be referring to. But I will like to point out, that AI is going to be stupid, because it's not intelligent. Computers have no brains. So everything that NPC do, is from a script with use of hidden mechanics, and sometimes not so hidden mechanics. But I get the feeling I know what you were trying to say, since I heard it from that other forum community often. But maybe you care to elaborate on this issue in your own words rather than just off my speculation of what you were saying.
dumb-looking armor. I am sorry, but Armor models are for looks. They don't have artificial intelligence . So I guess you are right. They are pretty dumb huh?
just plain boring huh? Well everything gets boring after a while. Especially if it's something you do often. Case and point. There is this new trend on Dynamic Events. But how long will this new feature in the genre last as a fun aspect? Usually it's an experience that is awesome fun (for me that is) at first, but major dull after doing these events for a few months. It still has it's moments like before, but the fun usually comes to a end at some point. WoW I am sure use to be fun for you at some point on time. Same for Runescape. But after a while, you just can't see the same fun you once had anymore. This is a bound condition for any MMORPG or any game in general. I use to love Elder Scroll Oblivion when it was new, but now I can't touch it with even a stick. It's not bad, it's just" the fun wares off." That's the proper way to describe it actually. So all MMO you play will have this moment at some point. It's unavoidable.
etc, well you can feel free to add on OP. I enjoyed your thread.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
"you mention "grinding". As if a MMO doesn't have grind. Well all MMO have grind. It's just depends on how well they disguise it."
Puzzle Pirates doesn't have grinding. Some MMORPGs are a lot heavier on grinding than others. There's quite a difference between "kill 10 rats" and "kill 200 rats".
"next you point out something about poor lore. I am surprised to hear somebody from WoW say it has poor lore, especially when you consider that massive wiki, and the fact that the IP alone has many different Dungeon And Dragon game sets."
WoW itself doesn't have much in the way of a coherent storyline. There are a bunch of bits and fragments here and there, but it never adds up to anything. You're citing a bunch of stuff outside the game. What's in the game itself doesn't go that far beyond "we must farm this boss because it drops epics".
Now, storyline and lore are harder to do in an online game than a single-player one, because you could have different players meeting, with an event having already happened for one player but still in the future for another. That's why games often have to rely so heavily on instancing in order to have much of a storyline.
"But I will like to point out, that AI is going to be stupid, because it's not intelligent. Computers have no brains. So everything that NPC do, is from a script with use of hidden mechanics, and sometimes not so hidden mechanics."
There's AI that is as smart as the designers can make it, and then there is AI that is intentionally stupid. Think of the difference between the chess algorithm that beat Garry Kasparov, and one that consists of picking a piece at random and moving it at random.
The problem is that a lot of MMORPGs lean heavily toward the latter. They have these ridiculous group or raid encounters where Bob the Really Big Dragon focuses exclusively on a very heavily armored tank that can't really do much in the way of damage. Meanwhile, healers are spamming heals on the tank, so that he doesn't die. The boss could kill the healers in about two hits each, then move on to the damage dealers, and finally get around to the tanks. The group or raid should have no hope of winning against even a boss of even modest intelligence. But no, the game has an aggro system that dictates that Bob the Really Big Dragon must exclusively attack the tank, because the tank has some super duper aggro grabbing taunt skill.
"dumb-looking armor. I am sorry, but Armor models are for looks. They don't have artificial intelligence ."
Way to intentionally miss the point. Surely you've seen armors that don't look like adequate protection to ride a bike, let alone go to war. And then there are the armors that look like if the wearer twitches wrong, his own armor will rip his head off. Now, different people do have different taste in armor. But is it really so much to ask that armors look like they could plausibly be function as armor?
"Well everything gets boring after a while."
There's a difference between getting boring after a day and getting boring after a year. If a game is fun for a year, and then gets boring, it was well worth the money.
The thing is that that AI is realistic to some degree. The creature probably doesn't know what a heal is. And taunts work on real life animals. Now if the enemy is sentient it probably makes sense for them to ice healers first.
It would be interesting to watch players defeat a "sentient" boss. In that case I suspect the ideal strategy involves DPS zerging with healers and tanks being useless, sort of like a real battle :P
The thing is that that AI is realistic to some degree. The creature probably doesn't know what a heal is. And taunts work on real life animals. Now if the enemy is sentient it probably makes sense for them to ice healers first.
It would be interesting to watch players defeat a "sentient" boss. In that case I suspect the ideal strategy involves DPS zerging with healers and tanks being useless, sort of like a real battle :P
I agree. People like quizzical from his community calls that dumb AI,because the game they play doesn't use the same mechanics for npc controls. So they call it dumb AI. But actually the truth is, in real life we have the same thing. When somebody in real life tints another person, what happens? What's a taunt in real life, and what usually results from it? Imagine you walk up to another person and yell bad words at them face to fact, than slap them in the face while laughing. That's a taunt. What is the outcome of that? Case and point, Tanks do this. That taunt a creature, which makes the creature want to kill the tank. We call that "Hatred"! That's what tanks generate. They build up hate. Back in the day we called threat mechanics, also hatred. Because on a role play level that's what it is. Nothing dumb about it.Philosophy of MMO Game Design
IRL you shoot someone with an arrow and they die. So realism in rpgs isn't evena thing anyways.
The thing is that that AI is realistic to some degree. The creature probably doesn't know what a heal is. And taunts work on real life animals. Now if the enemy is sentient it probably makes sense for them to ice healers first.
It would be interesting to watch players defeat a "sentient" boss. In that case I suspect the ideal strategy involves DPS zerging with healers and tanks being useless, sort of like a real battle :P
I agree. People like quizzical from his community calls that dumb AI,because the game they play doesn't use the same mechanics for npc controls. So they call it dumb AI. But actually the truth is, in real life we have the same thing. When somebody in real life tints another person, what happens? What's a taunt in real life, and what usually results from it? Imagine you walk up to another person and yell bad words at them face to fact, than slap them in the face while laughing. That's a taunt. What is the outcome of that? Case and point, Tanks do this. That taunt a creature, which makes the creature want to kill the tank. We call that "Hatred"! That's what tanks generate. They build up hate. Back in the day we called threat mechanics, also hatred. Because on a role play level that's what it is. Nothing dumb about it.IRL you shoot someone with an arrow and they die. So realism in rpgs isn't evena thing anyways.
Yeah and in real life you have a ballistic shield to block the shot. Oh wait. There goes that tanking shield againPhilosophy of MMO Game Design
IRL you grow older and slower and those scars accumulate until the sudden stop at the end.
Shrug, you should really just avoid talking about realism in MMOs too much, because they're all fantasy (even the SF ones) about the perfect hero with infinite resets. He routinely does dozens of impossible things every day (fun wins over reality).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
A certain amount of realistic abstract concepts are good, but being too realistic is just not. So we have fighting and crafting, but you don't actually have to learn these things. A "top tier" craftsperson irl puts in 10-30k hours of work on their craft.
IRL you grow older and slower and those scars accumulate until the sudden stop at the end.
Shrug, you should really just avoid talking about realism in MMOs too much, because they're all fantasy (even the SF ones) about the perfect hero with infinite resets. He routinely does dozens of impossible things every day (fun wins over reality).
that's why In real life we have hospitals to heal and recover from injuries. In the fantasy world, we have soul healers an clerics. we recover. Also in the sports, we have many more skilled players that are older than new generation and more skilled. Just compare vet QB to new QB in football.many things in the fantasy world have alternate rl reference
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
hospitals do not bring back the dead. they cannot perfectly restore someone who lost limbs. They cannot save you if you were eaten by a dragon or hit with a wall of flame taller than you. They cannot fix wounds instantly. If you are hit 15 times with a sword you are not going to live. Instant vs extended convalescence is not the same. mmos are not real. reality is just because the audience can understand it. fantasy is the most popular mmo because people know what it means and how its likely to work.
we use abstract life principles in games. healers and doctors both attempt to repair damage to the body, but they are not the same. healers are not realistic.
So basically, you're reduced to conceding that the AI in most MMORPGs is incredibly stupid, but that it should be that way for "realism" reasons, even though it makes the gameplay worse?
I'd like to see your realism argument for why a hundred or so human NPCs defending a fort should break up into groups of about three and wait their turn to be pulled. Though unlike the aggro system, that one actually does have a gameplay reason to justify it.
Aggro has a real world abstract counterpart. There is a lot of gameplay around the holy trinity. I am fine with it as a game mechanic. However I do disagree that it should be the only one. I would love to play a game without the holy trinity as well as ones with it.
I don't see why they should split up that way, or why monsters should wait to be pulled. I have never played a game like that in an mmo. I think its silly. My AI wouldn't do that if I had defensive npc AI, which I don't.