Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
I agree with you, but a certain percentage of sandbox gamers squall and moan whenever devs try to restrict the negative impact they can have on other players.
I don't think Guild Wars 2 is a sandbox at all. Archeage probably will be, but my guess is it will be extremely niche in the West if it's ported over as is. For the hyper social pvp sandbox crowd, I've no doubt Archeage is your game. For the rest of us, sadly, we get themeparks. Until, as Zylaxx mentioned, a AAA developer finally figures out that the vocal griefer crowd does not make up the vast majority of the sandbox crowd.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
That's completely ridiculous. Uncharted Waters Online is an AAA sandbox game, not just leaning slightly in that direction. Not mostly themepark with a bit of sandbox, but entirely a sandbox game. Not some independent developer you've never heard of, but one that has been making games (initially console games) for nearly 30 years and has hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue.
"Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?"
A Tale in the Desert
You can build your camp out in the open world. You can build several of them in different locations if you like. There are dozens of buildings to build, most of which have important functions, so one person's camp is very different from another's. And you probably want multiples of a lot of the buildings. People will camp together and share buildings. If someone else quits the game, you can go claim someone else's camp, or (more likely) tear down the buildings for materials. You can even fight with your neighbors over who gets to use what land.
GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
That's completely ridiculous. Uncharted Waters Online is an AAA sandbox game, not just leaning slightly in that direction. Not mostly themepark with a bit of sandbox, but entirely a sandbox game. Not some independent developer you've never heard of, but one that has been making games (initially console games) for nearly 30 years and has hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue.
"Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?"
A Tale in the Desert
You can build your camp out in the open world. You can build several of them in different locations if you like. There are dozens of buildings to build, most of which have important functions, so one person's camp is very different from another's. And you probably want multiples of a lot of the buildings. People will camp together and share buildings. If someone else quits the game, you can go claim someone else's camp, or (more likely) tear down the buildings for materials. You can even fight with your neighbors over who gets to use what land.
I have played A Tale in the Desert and WURM myself and those games are only for hard core sandboxers, PVP really isn't a mainstay on WURM and there is no PVP at all or RVR for that matter on A Tale In the Desert, its crafting and politics and it will take most of the people on this site all day to make something as simple as a clay brick. WURM as well the players build everything including the building supplies, which while neat is not going to draw a substantion number of subs as it has NO instant gratification at all. Something Like EVE, Ryzom or the now deceased SWG is about the level of Sandbox me and other people can tolerate. The Games you mentioned in my opinion are a little overboard, with the exception of Uncharted Waters. But all the games you mention are not the most exiting settings, no races, barely if any at all character creation. I would go so far to say that a few of them are closer to simulations than mmorpgs with crafting. I would say that EVE is a AAA Sandbox game because of the playability factor, Anarchy, UO, are what I call AAA Sandboxers.
Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
So far, the successful sandbox-focused MMOs almost all have in common a split of about 80% PVE content and 20% PVP content. Many people have tried to add more of a PVP focus, but has less than desirable results. I'd be interested in seeing a major developer create something down the line of ATITD or even something as freeform as a Minecraft-like MMO. It seems like the key to successful sandbox is a compelling core collaborative component - PVP or PVE, either will do - but extensive PVE gameplay.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
So far, the successful sandbox-focused MMOs almost all have in common a split of about 80% PVE content and 20% PVP content. Many people have tried to add more of a PVP focus, but has less than desirable results. I'd be interested in seeing a major developer create something down the line of ATITD or even something as freeform as a Minecraft-like MMO. It seems like the key to successful sandbox is a compelling core collaborative component - PVP or PVE, either will do - but extensive PVE gameplay.
EVE is the most successful Sandbox game and is easily more than 20 percent PVP focussed. There is no focus on PVE at all on EVE, there likes a few starter missions but nothing to write home about, no dungeon raids etc. Its Crafting first then PVP second probably but PVE? Good luck explaining that one. That is total disinformation. I cant think of a top of the line Sandbox with much focus at all on PVE, I have no idea how you rationalize that.
GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
That's completely ridiculous. Uncharted Waters Online is an AAA sandbox game, not just leaning slightly in that direction. Not mostly themepark with a bit of sandbox, but entirely a sandbox game. Not some independent developer you've never heard of, but one that has been making games (initially console games) for nearly 30 years and has hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue.
"Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?"
A Tale in the Desert
You can build your camp out in the open world. You can build several of them in different locations if you like. There are dozens of buildings to build, most of which have important functions, so one person's camp is very different from another's. And you probably want multiples of a lot of the buildings. People will camp together and share buildings. If someone else quits the game, you can go claim someone else's camp, or (more likely) tear down the buildings for materials. You can even fight with your neighbors over who gets to use what land.
I have played A Tale in the Desert and WURM myself and those games are only for hard core sandboxers, PVP really isn't a mainstay on WURM and there is no PVP at all or RVR for that matter on A Tale In the Desert, its crafting and politics and it will take most of the people on this site all day to make something as simple as a clay brick. WURM as well the players build everything including the building supplies, which while neat is not going to draw a substantion number of subs as it has NO instant gratification at all. Something Like EVE, Ryzom or the now deceased SWG is about the level of Sandbox me and other people can tolerate. The Games you mentioned in my opinion are a little overboard, with the exception of Uncharted Waters. But all the games you mention are not the most exiting settings, no races, barely if any at all character creation. I would go so far to say that a few of them are closer to simulations than mmorpgs with crafting. I would say that EVE is a AAA Sandbox game because of the playability factor, Anarchy, UO, are what I call AAA Sandboxers.
ATITD isn't an AAA game at all. It was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, I think the game had four paid employees. My claim was only that it has a better housing system than EQ2. Considered broadly, you could argue that much of the game's content is part of the housing system. Obviously, EQ2 has a lot of stuff that ATITD does not, and there are a lot of reasons why one might like EQ2 and not ATITD. But if you're looking only at the housing system and ignoring everything else (which for EQ2 means ignoring nearly the entire game), then ATITD is better.
You could argue as to whether the games you list are AAA sandbox games or not (for Anarchy Online, I'd dispute both the Sandbox and AAA portions, but they're at least arguable). My point was that UWO certainly is, and GW2 isn't (because it's not a sandbox), so the claim that GW2 is the closest to an AAA sandbox game in the last 12 years is ridiculous. If Tecmo-Koei isn't an AAA developer, then neither are Funcom or CCP, or, for that matter, ArenaNet.
GW2 is full on Themepark unless they add some openworld player housing / building or some other forms of user created content which is unlikely.
I think they actually talked about adding housing in the future, but it was something they couldn't do as best as they wanted at launch. So they will wait on that.
thank you i thought i read that too about housing and player alterable content type functions in the future. This is something that huge and takes a lot of work in the beginning most games don't get it right or put too many restrictions on it. I do love how the cities change according to your place in the world events.
Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
So far, the successful sandbox-focused MMOs almost all have in common a split of about 80% PVE content and 20% PVP content. Many people have tried to add more of a PVP focus, but has less than desirable results. I'd be interested in seeing a major developer create something down the line of ATITD or even something as freeform as a Minecraft-like MMO. It seems like the key to successful sandbox is a compelling core collaborative component - PVP or PVE, either will do - but extensive PVE gameplay.
EVE is the most successful Sandbox game and is easily more than 20 percent PVP focussed. There is no focus on PVE at all on EVE, there likes a few starter missions but nothing to write home about, no dungeon raids etc. Its Crafting first then PVP second probably but PVE? Good luck explaining that one. That is total disinformation. I cant think of a top of the line Sandbox with much focus at all on PVE, I have no idea how you rationalize that.
I know a lot of people that have been playing EvE for a long time that have never done any PvP and have never been PKed. All they do is run missions, craft, and play the economy.
What I find interesting that the Elder Scrolls series have been considered 'PvE Sandboxes' for as long as I can remember. Yet to me they are disguised themeparks. However, if they are truly regarded as a sandbox, then why isn't a game such as GW2 regarded one either?
The definition of a sandbox can change from person to person. For some, it simply equates to content being freely optional and completed entirely based on choice or in any order. TES fits that but then so does GW2 with it's Dynamic Event system. Unlike other themepark MMOs, GW2's core content isn't linear, is entirely optional and also isn't player driven (like quests) but rather driven by the world.
In fact, DE can be seen as a step up from TES which also uses traditional quests as a means for content. They work differently from traditional themepark MMOs but GW2's DEs are indeed in the same catagory. But as I said, neither game is a sandbox in the respect that the player does create content themselves but rather in how they can manipulate the content.
In any case, the distinction is blurred to me on that one.
To me they are still both themeparks, but I'm interested in what others think.
It's about 1/5th of the way to what a sandbox should be, but it's still a themepark. A sandbox should have an active world, and DE's, even though they are scripted, are a step towards that active world. The players actions have an effect on the layout of the land, if the people don't defend the bridge, the bridge burns and isn't there until it gets rebuilt. WvWvW is in all essence, just an instance and really can't be put on much different of a category then a battleground. I don't think it lends towards sandbox at all. Player housing will end up being in an instanced area of a city (as far as I've heard) - not really sandbox at all
Do you know the differance between an instance and a zone,they are not the same thing.WvWvW happens in the persistant world called the myst which is an open zone that anyone can enter at any level and time.Structual pvp happens in an instanced and not an open world zone like the myst.So WvWvW is not in essence an instanced at all,it happens in open world zone that the devs have said on many occasions.
Themepark versus Sandbox... Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression. Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
I am looking forward to GW2 and am a avid follower.i have attended GamesCom for the last two years.Your comment about GW2 being as close to sandbox in the last 12 years is nonsence and damn right silly.GW2 has some features that are a step away from your standard themepark MMO like DE but make no mistake its shares more in common with a themepark MMO than it does sandbox.
OP..where do you get the idea that FFA pvp is a must for a sandbox mmo.Sandbox to me has to let you be totally free in the game plus have an open world,non instanced dungeons and a skill based class system plus a crafting system that is a major park of the game.All items should be craftable and housing is in the open world,ffa pvp is just an added feature that you can find in themepark MMOs.
Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
So far, the successful sandbox-focused MMOs almost all have in common a split of about 80% PVE content and 20% PVP content. Many people have tried to add more of a PVP focus, but has less than desirable results. I'd be interested in seeing a major developer create something down the line of ATITD or even something as freeform as a Minecraft-like MMO. It seems like the key to successful sandbox is a compelling core collaborative component - PVP or PVE, either will do - but extensive PVE gameplay.
EVE is the most successful Sandbox game and is easily more than 20 percent PVP focussed. There is no focus on PVE at all on EVE, there likes a few starter missions but nothing to write home about, no dungeon raids etc. Its Crafting first then PVP second probably but PVE? Good luck explaining that one. That is total disinformation. I cant think of a top of the line Sandbox with much focus at all on PVE, I have no idea how you rationalize that.
Thanks for the correction. I guess I had the wronginfo.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
A sandbox means player created content.
While Guildwars 2 ain't what we usually call a themepark since you have a lot more freedom than in regular themeparks. As an example can you choose which part of a DE to make instead of completing the whole quest objective.
I don't think GW2 can satisfy someone that only likes sandboxes, because there is little that your character can build. True sandboxes are closer to Sim city and Minecraft than GW2.
The more player created content a game have the more of a sandbox is it.
GW2 might however have a chanse with people who hate themeparks, gameplay is a lot less linear but that does not make it a sandbox.
EVE is the most successful Sandbox game and is easily more than 20 percent PVP focussed. There is no focus on PVE at all on EVE, there likes a few starter missions but nothing to write home about, no dungeon raids etc. Its Crafting first then PVP second probably but PVE? Good luck explaining that one. That is total disinformation. I cant think of a top of the line Sandbox with much focus at all on PVE, I have no idea how you rationalize that.
Yeah. The thing is that a sandbox could have anywhere from zero to 100% PvP and still be a sandbox.
How popular it becomes really depends on how good the game is, not how much PvP or PvE it have.
UO was not nearly as PvP foused as Eve and still a hit at the time if you want an example. But I could easily see some kind of Sim city MMO with no violence at all.
It is not PvP or the lack of it that sells, it is well made games that are fun to play. Most sandbox games have failed miserably there, mostly because almost all of them are made by small and inexperienced companies.
It's about 1/5th of the way to what a sandbox should be, but it's still a themepark. A sandbox should have an active world, and DE's, even though they are scripted, are a step towards that active world. The players actions have an effect on the layout of the land, if the people don't defend the bridge, the bridge burns and isn't there until it gets rebuilt.
WvWvW is in all essence, just an instance and really can't be put on much different of a category then a battleground. I don't think it lends towards sandbox at all.
Player housing will end up being in an instanced area of a city (as far as I've heard) - not really sandbox at all
Do you know the differance between an instance and a zone,they are not the same thing.WvWvW happens in the persistant world called the myst which is an open zone that anyone can enter at any level and time.Structual pvp happens in an instanced and not an open world zone like the myst.So WvWvW is not in essence an instanced at all,it happens in open world zone that the devs have said on many occasions.
Ok, so do you think that because WvWvW is in a "zone" that it makes the game more of a sandbox?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
It's about 1/5th of the way to what a sandbox should be, but it's still a themepark. A sandbox should have an active world, and DE's, even though they are scripted, are a step towards that active world. The players actions have an effect on the layout of the land, if the people don't defend the bridge, the bridge burns and isn't there until it gets rebuilt. WvWvW is in all essence, just an instance and really can't be put on much different of a category then a battleground. I don't think it lends towards sandbox at all. Player housing will end up being in an instanced area of a city (as far as I've heard) - not really sandbox at all
Do you know the differance between an instance and a zone,they are not the same thing.WvWvW happens in the persistant world called the myst which is an open zone that anyone can enter at any level and time.Structual pvp happens in an instanced and not an open world zone like the myst.So WvWvW is not in essence an instanced at all,it happens in open world zone that the devs have said on many occasions.
Ok, so do you think that because WvWvW is in a "zone" that it makes the game more of a sandbox?
What's that got to do with you not knowing the differance between a zone and an instance? Ill ask you again: do you know the differance between a zone and an instance? You said that WvWvW happens in an instance like battle grounds and you are wrong.Structual PvP happens in an instance and WvWvW happens in the open world which is a persistant zone. Do i think WvWvW happening in the open world males GW2 sandbox,emm lol what kind of question is that.Please do not tell me that you are one of these mmo players who equates open world pvp as being sandbox because it does not. GW2 is not a sandbox game it's themepark with certain features that give you more freedom than games like swtor which are as linear as it gets.
Themepark versus Sandbox... Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression. Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
It's already clear by what Anet has told us that the game will not have, initially at least, no sandbox features, it's a pure themepark game. That's fine by me, I like themeparks, though I wouldnt mind some sandbox features in the game, but I cant see Anet implementing such because the world does not really support such features currently (carefully designed areas, events, and monster placement), if people demand, they could always later add in "no mans land" type of areas where would be much more freedom and special features for sandbox play.
I dont see how dynamic events are related to sandboxy features, they are just public quests/series of "open quests" that go back and forth on rails. It's an amazing feature if properly done, one of my main reasons GW2 looks good to me, but I dont see anything sandboxy about it, quite the opposite because it's heavily scripted series of events, shouldnt sandboxy elements have loads of freedom in them?
Then please explain to me why so many sandbox players have cought interest of GW2, and why they will love playing it even more, the only reason i can find for that(except GW2 being the best Most Innovative MMO developed in years) that they recognise a lot of freedom in it. They can do things the way they want without being punnished for it by the game.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
So far, the successful sandbox-focused MMOs almost all have in common a split of about 80% PVE content and 20% PVP content. Many people have tried to add more of a PVP focus, but has less than desirable results. I'd be interested in seeing a major developer create something down the line of ATITD or even something as freeform as a Minecraft-like MMO. It seems like the key to successful sandbox is a compelling core collaborative component - PVP or PVE, either will do - but extensive PVE gameplay.
EVE is the most successful Sandbox game and is easily more than 20 percent PVP focussed. There is no focus on PVE at all on EVE, there likes a few starter missions but nothing to write home about, no dungeon raids etc. Its Crafting first then PVP second probably but PVE? Good luck explaining that one. That is total disinformation. I cant think of a top of the line Sandbox with much focus at all on PVE, I have no idea how you rationalize that.
I know a lot of people that have been playing EvE for a long time that have never done any PvP and have never been PKed. All they do is run missions, craft, and play the economy.
The missions are a minor part of the game AT BEST, Crafting is not PVE thats Sandbox, because its a totally player run community. Sounds like your friends are safe start zone huggers, some people do that, its low risk and low reward.
Personally i am a strong believer that GW2 will walk the middle of the road. While there will be no FFA PvP the dynamic events should give players a real sandboxy feeling, and character building should allow for much more freedom then the usual skill tree progression.
Do you think that GW2 can satisfy the average Joe sandbox fan?
Sanbox player usually have a very tick gaming background since they are not a lot of sandbox around. A lot of themepark gamer never played sandbox, some can't even understand what it mean. They are some guys in this forum that are making post about sandbox every 2 months and its clear they have no idea what they are talking about.
But anyway, people just like good games, sandbox and themepark argumentation is just bs to excuse bad games.
Originally posted by Azaria EVE is the most successful Sandbox game and is easily more than 20 percent PVP focussed. There is no focus on PVE at all on EVE, there likes a few starter missions but nothing to write home about, no dungeon raids etc. Its Crafting first then PVP second probably but PVE? Good luck explaining that one. That is total disinformation. I cant think of a top of the line Sandbox with much focus at all on PVE, I have no idea how you rationalize that.
Dynamic quests are ONE thing about GW2 that makes it -sorta- sandbox... If you compare that to other sandboxes, that is not much, most have like 5-15 different features that would help qualify it as a sandbox.
Seriously GW2 is not sandbox. It will be decent game I am sure. I am planning to play it myself (sandbox player here),but it is by no means a sandbox. Dynamic events might be considered a BIT sandboxy, but one feature that is just a bit sandboxy does not make a sandbox game. Whole game concept and whole framework is deffo themepark.
This is no flame start.
Imho GW2 is / will be something like themepark ver 2.0 and not sandbox.
Seriously GW2 is not sandbox. It will be decent game I am sure. I am planning to play it myself (sandbox player here),but it is by no means a sandbox. Dynamic events might be considered a BIT sandboxy, but one feature that is just a bit sandboxy does not make a sandbox game. Whole game concept and whole framework is deffo themepark.
This is no flame start.
Imho GW2 is / will be something like themepark ver 2.0 and not sandbox.
Don't forget about WvW with objectives that are upgradeable by resources you have to secure first. That totals up to two "sandboxy" features, which constitute very large part of the gameplay available. Of course, it's not enough to call it sandbox or possibly even sandpark, but it's more than any themepark MMO offered so far.
Seriously GW2 is not sandbox. It will be decent game I am sure. I am planning to play it myself (sandbox player here),but it is by no means a sandbox. Dynamic events might be considered a BIT sandboxy, but one feature that is just a bit sandboxy does not make a sandbox game. Whole game concept and whole framework is deffo themepark.
This is no flame start.
Imho GW2 is / will be something like themepark ver 2.0 and not sandbox.
Don't forget about WvW with objectives that are upgradeable by resources you have to secure first. That totals up to two "sandboxy" features, which constitute very large part of the gameplay available. Of course, it's not enough to call it sandbox or possibly even sandpark, but it's more than any themepark MMO offered so far.
Yupp, it's not a sandbox at its core by a long stretch but it is definitely moving in what I feel is the natural evolution of the genre - and that is a themepark/sandbox hybrid... unlike that zombie frankenstein's monster that is TOR.
...and what is even more important, it does so seamlessly unlike Archeage which, although I like a lot that I'm seeing, seems a bit clunky with old themepark and sandbox elements stitched together rather than inventing a whole new paradigm which is what GW2 is trying to do.
Seriously GW2 is not sandbox. It will be decent game I am sure. I am planning to play it myself (sandbox player here),but it is by no means a sandbox. Dynamic events might be considered a BIT sandboxy, but one feature that is just a bit sandboxy does not make a sandbox game. Whole game concept and whole framework is deffo themepark.
This is no flame start.
Imho GW2 is / will be something like themepark ver 2.0 and not sandbox.
Don't forget about WvW with objectives that are upgradeable by resources you have to secure first. That totals up to two "sandboxy" features, which constitute very large part of the gameplay available. Of course, it's not enough to call it sandbox or possibly even sandpark, but it's more than any themepark MMO offered so far.
Yupp, it's not a sandbox at its core by a long stretch but it is definitely moving in what I feel is the natural evolution of the genre - and that is a themepark/sandbox hybrid... unlike that zombie frankenstein's monster that is TOR.
...and what is even more important, it does so seamlessly unlike Archeage which, although I like a lot that I'm seeing, seems a bit clunky with old themepark and sandbox elements stitched together rather than inventing a whole new paradigm which is what GW2 is trying to do.
Actually the main reason i am interested in GW2 like so many i suppose is the Dynamic content,this for me will be the decideing factor if it is a disappointment like Rift,then it will revert to same old theme park template,and wont get my wonga.
A quick mention about Archeage i recently saw a vid and the player rode a donkey of a cliff then used a glider to land in the sea,then jumped in a rowing boat !!,i don't expect this in GW2 but if the enviroment and social structure in the game world change then i'll be happy with this themepark dynamic.
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I agree with you, but a certain percentage of sandbox gamers squall and moan whenever devs try to restrict the negative impact they can have on other players.
I don't think Guild Wars 2 is a sandbox at all. Archeage probably will be, but my guess is it will be extremely niche in the West if it's ported over as is. For the hyper social pvp sandbox crowd, I've no doubt Archeage is your game. For the rest of us, sadly, we get themeparks. Until, as Zylaxx mentioned, a AAA developer finally figures out that the vocal griefer crowd does not make up the vast majority of the sandbox crowd.
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That's completely ridiculous. Uncharted Waters Online is an AAA sandbox game, not just leaning slightly in that direction. Not mostly themepark with a bit of sandbox, but entirely a sandbox game. Not some independent developer you've never heard of, but one that has been making games (initially console games) for nearly 30 years and has hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue.
"Can someone tell me if there is a sandbox game with a better housing system?"
A Tale in the Desert
You can build your camp out in the open world. You can build several of them in different locations if you like. There are dozens of buildings to build, most of which have important functions, so one person's camp is very different from another's. And you probably want multiples of a lot of the buildings. People will camp together and share buildings. If someone else quits the game, you can go claim someone else's camp, or (more likely) tear down the buildings for materials. You can even fight with your neighbors over who gets to use what land.
I have played A Tale in the Desert and WURM myself and those games are only for hard core sandboxers, PVP really isn't a mainstay on WURM and there is no PVP at all or RVR for that matter on A Tale In the Desert, its crafting and politics and it will take most of the people on this site all day to make something as simple as a clay brick. WURM as well the players build everything including the building supplies, which while neat is not going to draw a substantion number of subs as it has NO instant gratification at all. Something Like EVE, Ryzom or the now deceased SWG is about the level of Sandbox me and other people can tolerate. The Games you mentioned in my opinion are a little overboard, with the exception of Uncharted Waters. But all the games you mention are not the most exiting settings, no races, barely if any at all character creation. I would go so far to say that a few of them are closer to simulations than mmorpgs with crafting. I would say that EVE is a AAA Sandbox game because of the playability factor, Anarchy, UO, are what I call AAA Sandboxers.
So far, the successful sandbox-focused MMOs almost all have in common a split of about 80% PVE content and 20% PVP content. Many people have tried to add more of a PVP focus, but has less than desirable results. I'd be interested in seeing a major developer create something down the line of ATITD or even something as freeform as a Minecraft-like MMO. It seems like the key to successful sandbox is a compelling core collaborative component - PVP or PVE, either will do - but extensive PVE gameplay.
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"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
EVE is the most successful Sandbox game and is easily more than 20 percent PVP focussed. There is no focus on PVE at all on EVE, there likes a few starter missions but nothing to write home about, no dungeon raids etc. Its Crafting first then PVP second probably but PVE? Good luck explaining that one. That is total disinformation. I cant think of a top of the line Sandbox with much focus at all on PVE, I have no idea how you rationalize that.
ATITD isn't an AAA game at all. It was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, I think the game had four paid employees. My claim was only that it has a better housing system than EQ2. Considered broadly, you could argue that much of the game's content is part of the housing system. Obviously, EQ2 has a lot of stuff that ATITD does not, and there are a lot of reasons why one might like EQ2 and not ATITD. But if you're looking only at the housing system and ignoring everything else (which for EQ2 means ignoring nearly the entire game), then ATITD is better.
You could argue as to whether the games you list are AAA sandbox games or not (for Anarchy Online, I'd dispute both the Sandbox and AAA portions, but they're at least arguable). My point was that UWO certainly is, and GW2 isn't (because it's not a sandbox), so the claim that GW2 is the closest to an AAA sandbox game in the last 12 years is ridiculous. If Tecmo-Koei isn't an AAA developer, then neither are Funcom or CCP, or, for that matter, ArenaNet.
thank you i thought i read that too about housing and player alterable content type functions in the future. This is something that huge and takes a lot of work in the beginning most games don't get it right or put too many restrictions on it. I do love how the cities change according to your place in the world events.
I know a lot of people that have been playing EvE for a long time that have never done any PvP and have never been PKed. All they do is run missions, craft, and play the economy.
My theme song.
What I find interesting that the Elder Scrolls series have been considered 'PvE Sandboxes' for as long as I can remember. Yet to me they are disguised themeparks. However, if they are truly regarded as a sandbox, then why isn't a game such as GW2 regarded one either?
The definition of a sandbox can change from person to person. For some, it simply equates to content being freely optional and completed entirely based on choice or in any order. TES fits that but then so does GW2 with it's Dynamic Event system. Unlike other themepark MMOs, GW2's core content isn't linear, is entirely optional and also isn't player driven (like quests) but rather driven by the world.
In fact, DE can be seen as a step up from TES which also uses traditional quests as a means for content. They work differently from traditional themepark MMOs but GW2's DEs are indeed in the same catagory. But as I said, neither game is a sandbox in the respect that the player does create content themselves but rather in how they can manipulate the content.
In any case, the distinction is blurred to me on that one.
To me they are still both themeparks, but I'm interested in what others think.
Do you know the differance between an instance and a zone,they are not the same thing.WvWvW happens in the persistant world called the myst which is an open zone that anyone can enter at any level and time.Structual pvp happens in an instanced and not an open world zone like the myst.So WvWvW is not in essence an instanced at all,it happens in open world zone that the devs have said on many occasions.FFA PvP is not a requirement of a sandbox MMO. I dont know where people get this silly notion that a MMO must have FFA PvP in order for it to be consdered a sandbox.
If companys would understand that PvE is what makes a game great then as my sig has stated for 2+ years now, the first one to make a PvE sandbox will garner the sub numbers of a WoW, and GW2 will be as close to a AAA sandbox as anything in the last 12 years.
I am looking forward to GW2 and am a avid follower.i have attended GamesCom for the last two years.Your comment about GW2 being as close to sandbox in the last 12 years is nonsence and damn right silly.GW2 has some features that are a step away from your standard themepark MMO like DE but make no mistake its shares more in common with a themepark MMO than it does sandbox.OP..where do you get the idea that FFA pvp is a must for a sandbox mmo.Sandbox to me has to let you be totally free in the game plus have an open world,non instanced dungeons and a skill based class system plus a crafting system that is a major park of the game.All items should be craftable and housing is in the open world,ffa pvp is just an added feature that you can find in themepark MMOs.
Thanks for the correction. I guess I had the wrong info.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
A sandbox means player created content.
While Guildwars 2 ain't what we usually call a themepark since you have a lot more freedom than in regular themeparks. As an example can you choose which part of a DE to make instead of completing the whole quest objective.
I don't think GW2 can satisfy someone that only likes sandboxes, because there is little that your character can build. True sandboxes are closer to Sim city and Minecraft than GW2.
The more player created content a game have the more of a sandbox is it.
GW2 might however have a chanse with people who hate themeparks, gameplay is a lot less linear but that does not make it a sandbox.
Yeah. The thing is that a sandbox could have anywhere from zero to 100% PvP and still be a sandbox.
How popular it becomes really depends on how good the game is, not how much PvP or PvE it have.
UO was not nearly as PvP foused as Eve and still a hit at the time if you want an example. But I could easily see some kind of Sim city MMO with no violence at all.
It is not PvP or the lack of it that sells, it is well made games that are fun to play. Most sandbox games have failed miserably there, mostly because almost all of them are made by small and inexperienced companies.
Ok, so do you think that because WvWvW is in a "zone" that it makes the game more of a sandbox?
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I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
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Do you know the differance between an instance and a zone,they are not the same thing.WvWvW happens in the persistant world called the myst which is an open zone that anyone can enter at any level and time.Structual pvp happens in an instanced and not an open world zone like the myst.So WvWvW is not in essence an instanced at all,it happens in open world zone that the devs have said on many occasions.Ok, so do you think that because WvWvW is in a "zone" that it makes the game more of a sandbox?
What's that got to do with you not knowing the differance between a zone and an instance? Ill ask you again: do you know the differance between a zone and an instance? You said that WvWvW happens in an instance like battle grounds and you are wrong.Structual PvP happens in an instance and WvWvW happens in the open world which is a persistant zone. Do i think WvWvW happening in the open world males GW2 sandbox,emm lol what kind of question is that.Please do not tell me that you are one of these mmo players who equates open world pvp as being sandbox because it does not. GW2 is not a sandbox game it's themepark with certain features that give you more freedom than games like swtor which are as linear as it gets.It's already clear by what Anet has told us that the game will not have, initially at least, no sandbox features, it's a pure themepark game. That's fine by me, I like themeparks, though I wouldnt mind some sandbox features in the game, but I cant see Anet implementing such because the world does not really support such features currently (carefully designed areas, events, and monster placement), if people demand, they could always later add in "no mans land" type of areas where would be much more freedom and special features for sandbox play.
I dont see how dynamic events are related to sandboxy features, they are just public quests/series of "open quests" that go back and forth on rails. It's an amazing feature if properly done, one of my main reasons GW2 looks good to me, but I dont see anything sandboxy about it, quite the opposite because it's heavily scripted series of events, shouldnt sandboxy elements have loads of freedom in them?
Then please explain to me why so many sandbox players have cought interest of GW2, and why they will love playing it even more, the only reason i can find for that(except GW2 being the best Most Innovative MMO developed in years) that they recognise a lot of freedom in it. They can do things the way they want without being punnished for it by the game.Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The missions are a minor part of the game AT BEST, Crafting is not PVE thats Sandbox, because its a totally player run community. Sounds like your friends are safe start zone huggers, some people do that, its low risk and low reward.
Sanbox player usually have a very tick gaming background since they are not a lot of sandbox around. A lot of themepark gamer never played sandbox, some can't even understand what it mean. They are some guys in this forum that are making post about sandbox every 2 months and its clear they have no idea what they are talking about.
But anyway, people just like good games, sandbox and themepark argumentation is just bs to excuse bad games.
Quoted for Epicness lvl 5.
Dynamic quests are ONE thing about GW2 that makes it -sorta- sandbox... If you compare that to other sandboxes, that is not much, most have like 5-15 different features that would help qualify it as a sandbox.
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Seriously GW2 is not sandbox. It will be decent game I am sure. I am planning to play it myself (sandbox player here),but it is by no means a sandbox. Dynamic events might be considered a BIT sandboxy, but one feature that is just a bit sandboxy does not make a sandbox game. Whole game concept and whole framework is deffo themepark.
This is no flame start.
Imho GW2 is / will be something like themepark ver 2.0 and not sandbox.
Don't forget about WvW with objectives that are upgradeable by resources you have to secure first. That totals up to two "sandboxy" features, which constitute very large part of the gameplay available. Of course, it's not enough to call it sandbox or possibly even sandpark, but it's more than any themepark MMO offered so far.
Yupp, it's not a sandbox at its core by a long stretch but it is definitely moving in what I feel is the natural evolution of the genre - and that is a themepark/sandbox hybrid... unlike that zombie frankenstein's monster that is TOR.
...and what is even more important, it does so seamlessly unlike Archeage which, although I like a lot that I'm seeing, seems a bit clunky with old themepark and sandbox elements stitched together rather than inventing a whole new paradigm which is what GW2 is trying to do.
Actually the main reason i am interested in GW2 like so many i suppose is the Dynamic content,this for me will be the decideing factor if it is a disappointment like Rift,then it will revert to same old theme park template,and wont get my wonga.
A quick mention about Archeage i recently saw a vid and the player rode a donkey of a cliff then used a glider to land in the sea,then jumped in a rowing boat !!,i don't expect this in GW2 but if the enviroment and social structure in the game world change then i'll be happy with this themepark dynamic.